The DMZ

Thomas Pornin

14:00

The minimal size for a gate appear to be about 5 nm; below that, quantum tunneling makes the gate leak too much.

Next idea for improving CPU speed is to make more layers, i.e. go 3D instead of 2D, but it is hard.

The failure rate in fab goes way too high, and you have to put rails made of pure diamond to dissipate heat.

AviD

@ThomasPornin it is debatable whether the end is part of the law itself, or an externality which cannot contradict the law.

(you do realize I'm being facetious regarding this "law", yes?)

@ThomasPornin I did see someone doing that, dont remember which company/chip.

Likely that it was on GPU.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD The point is that whoever cares to remember Moore's first name should, by right, win the argument.

AviD

Charles ;-)

TildalWave

i read some interesting article on magnetic cooling that could be used within the chips themselves, let me see if i can find it

Terry Chia

@AviD Is this the one you are thinking of? pcworld.com/article/227473/…

AviD

14:04

Schumway

Terry Chia

wait, wrong link.

TildalWave

sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130220084446.htm this is it but doesn't really give much detail on how it actually works

AviD

@TerryChia possibly.

Terry Chia

Frankly, if any company can come up with something new on the CPU front, it's Intel. They have insane resources.

Polynomial

@TerryChia Or ARM.

AviD

14:07

@TerryChia innovation is not always about resources.

Polynomial

in terms of innovation, ARM has probably got the broadest areas of research and development.

AviD

though they do have a lot of innovative people working for them...

Terry Chia

@AviD Yeah, but Intel has a huge advantage in owning their own fabs.

@Polynomial True. Be interesting if the rumours about the more powerful ARM chips pan out.

AviD

I've heard that the engineers whove come up with a lot of their innovations in the past, had to fight the entrenched beauracracy to get them to accept the new designs. Which are now immensely profitable.

Polynomial

@TerryChia I can honestly see them overtaking Intel in the desktop market over the next decade or so. The ARM architecture is so much easier to work with than x86.

Terry Chia

14:10

@Polynomial Yeah but backwards compatibility and all that you know...

TildalWave

@AviD that's not you is it? images.sciencedaily.com/2013/02/130220084446-large.jpg :)

Polynomial

@TerryChia Of course. I still like x86, it's just not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

AviD

@TildalWave hahaha, nooo....

Terry Chia

I'm very interested if the the new Intel Atom chips can compete with ARM for the tablet markets.

Especially for W8 tablets.

Polynomial

Oh dear $deity no. Those things suck ass.

x86 was never designed with low power consumption in mind, so the architecture just doesn't fit.

Terry Chia

14:13

@Polynomial The new ones look pretty good on paper. Should be interesting to see the improvements over the current ones.

TildalWave

@TerryChia There was an Intel powered phone, can't remember which one... but it received good reviews and the battery life was pretty good also. It was a single core CPU that was pretty close in performance to dual core ARMs

AviD

@TerryChia realistically, Intel will probably buy ARM within a couple of years.

or maybe AMD.

Terry Chia

I could see it being useful for the cheaper W8 tablets that want to run the full W8 instead of RT.

@AviD Wouldn't that draw questions of anti-competitiveness and all?

Polynomial

@AviD I can't see either of those being bought out by Intel. Maybe a merger between AMD and Intel, but not a buy-out.

Terry Chia

I really doubt Intel wants that.

AviD

14:14

@Polynomial I meant, AMD might buy ARM.

Polynomial

ah

the other way round is more likely.

ARM are massive players now.

AviD

way things are going, sure. But then they wont need them, soon enough.

Polynomial

though tbf I can't see any of that happening. ARM gets most of their money from licensing the architecture.

AviD

@Polynomial that can change too.

Polynomial

so other big players like Broadcom, Atmel, Foxconn, etc. pay big money to them just to make ARM chips.

I can see ARM buying a manufacture company rather than any of the big guys like AMD or Intel.

a buyout of Broadcom would be extremely lucrative for them.

Terry Chia

14:16

@AviD Nah, companies have to pay ARM to even use the instruction set.

Even companies like Apple who designs their own CPUs have to license the instruction set from ARM.

Polynomial

@TerryChia Actually, Apple outsources that to Foxconn.

and Foxconn license it from ARM.

Terry Chia

@Polynomial Hmm? I thought Apple designs the chips while foxconn does the manufacturing?

Either way, ARM gets a cut.

Polynomial

no, Apple provide the requirements spec and Foxconn does the actual chip design.

AviD

@TerryChia "design" as in deciding which colors go where.

Terry Chia

@Polynomial Ahh. I think Apple might move in the direction of an in-house team for chip designs though. Didn't they acquire some AMD employees recently?

@AviD heh, give Apple more credit.

Polynomial

14:19

Apple does surprisingly little with their iDevice series. everything is outsourced. Apple are mainly doing the product design, marketing and distribution.

AviD

@TerryChia well, its hard to make rounded corners on microchips.

Polynomial

@TerryChia They hired some of AMD's consultants, iirc.

Thomas Pornin

@TerryChia Apple used to be a chip designer, back when they were working with Motorola and IBM on the early PowerPC.

Polynomial

Motorola and Apple don't get on very well these days.

Terry Chia

@Polynomial That's an understatement.

Garrett Fogerlie

14:20

doesn't apple use mostly samsung's IC's?

Terry Chia

@GarrettFogerlie Nope. Samsung is one of the major suppliers, but not even the main one recently I think.

Polynomial

@GarrettFogerlie Foxconn make the core ARM processor, Broadcom make the WiFi SoC, Samsung does most of the assembly.

Garrett Fogerlie

ahh

Polynomial

and Samsung mainly use 3rd party suppliers for parts, e.g. TI, NXP, Phillips

oh and National Semiconductor

AviD

doesnt samsung also supply the screens?

Polynomial

14:22

yes, Samsung make the screens

Terry Chia

@Polynomial I was under the impression that Samsung only supplies the screens.

Do you have a source about them doing the assembly as well?

Polynomial

though some of that screen tech is licensed off Phillips anyway :P

AviD

I thought Foxconn do most of the assembly as well...

Polynomial

@TerryChia My bad, Foxconn does the assembly and manufacture the CPU.

Samsung are just the screen boys.

so yeah, Foxconn are the ones using 3rd party IC suppliers

Terry Chia

Yeah. Plus Apple is recently trying to reduce their reliance on Samsung screens. They are getting a lot from LG as well I think.

Polynomial

14:24

imo, it makes more sense for ARM to get other companies to do the manufacturing anyway. allows them more freedom in innovation and leaves it open for other people companies to focus on manufacture, especially in niche areas like SoC stuff for medical devices.

instead of having to worry about extensive testing for those niches, ARM just build the spec and work on the mainline chips, and leave the rest to licensed manufacturers.

Garrett Fogerlie

ARM wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't for the licencing!

Polynomial

it does amuse me that people think a single manufacturer is responsible for pretty much any device you buy on the highstreet.

Garrett Fogerlie

That was a great move on their part

Polynomial

hell, my crappy SilverTech DVD player that I bought from Lidl has a DVD reader module from Sony and a video processor from Broadcom.

the only thing that SliverTech did was put the Broadcom SoC on a board, hook it up to some electronics to power it and interface with the front panel, and write some code for the SoC.

all of the real technical manufacturing was done by 3rd parties

Terry Chia

63

Q: How to deal with sexual advances from students

One of my students is an escort/stripper and she has offered me (and other faculty in my department) her "services". I am pretty sure my initial reaction of "thanks for letting me know, now can you answer the question about how to calculate the standard deviation", may not have been the best reac...

sexual-misconduct

This is interesting...

> One of my students is an escort/stripper and she has offered me (and other faculty in my department) her "services". I am pretty sure my initial reaction of "thanks for letting me know, now can you answer the question about how to calculate the standard deviation"

Polynomial

14:36

lol

AviD

@TerryChia hey, I saw that movie.

@TerryChia I like this quote: and has asked if I want him to do anything.

ooh yeah, Sir, now slap it!

Polynomial

haha

"Interesting proposal. You down for a three-way?"

AviD

WHOA STOP HOLD THE PHONE.

Polynomial

/me holds a phone

Terry Chia

@AviD The right side of the chat room is looking pretty interesting right now.

AviD

14:48

> For what it is worth, prostitution is legal in the UK.

WHAAAA??

Polynomial

Prostitution is legal. Curb crawling isn't.

Rory McCune

@Polynomial and running a brothel isn't either (IIRC)

Polynomial

so you can legally be a prostitute, but you can't legally sleep with a prostitute.

@RoryMcCune that too.

AviD

@Polynomial Hmm. That explains the law about MPs not being allowed to resign.

Rory McCune

it's one of those horrible sets of UK laws that need straighened out..

Polynomial

14:49

hahaha

@RoryMcCune I dunno. I think protection of sex workers is important.

Rory McCune

@Polynomial yeah by straightened out I mean properly legalised and managed :)

Polynomial

:P

fair enough

AviD

while it is not legal in Israel, it is taxable income.

a few weeks ago, there was an article in the local newspapers here about a gigolo that was arrested - for massive tax evasion.

Polynomial

amusing.

AviD

@TerryChia curious that NONE of the answers or comments there actually said "just go for it, dude!"

they are way too polite over there.

Terry Chia

14:55

@AviD They are academics. What did you expect?

Very interesting document: legis.state.wv.us/Joint/PERD/perdrep/BTOP_2_2013.pdf

Iszi

15:13

@Polynomial Why is your anal fisting orgy fetish a primary topic of discussion in the sidebar?

3

Terry Chia

@Iszi Mostly starred for your pleasure.

Polynomial

@Iszi Why isn't your anal fisting orgy fetish a primary topic of discussion in the sidebar?

6

Iszi

See, guys. This is why we can't keep any chicks in here.

2

Polynomial

haha

Terry Chia

@Iszi So why are you around?

;)

Polynomial

15:16

trololol.

AviD

@Polynomial according to @TerryChia, @Iszi's pleasure resides in your anal fisting orgy fetish.

Iszi

Terry Chia

@Iszi He didn't follow up with that specialist.

Polynomial

@Iszi Only to within "an acceptable margin of error". His results could have been skewed.

@TerryChia That too.

Iszi

I swear, one of these days y'allz's sick & twisted discussions are gonna get this site's chat room on some corporate or government blacklist.

AviD

15:19

@Polynomial I think that says more about @Scott and his margin, than about @Iszi.

Polynomial

@AviD We should've asked Scott to define his margin.

double blind test and all that.

Iszi

Didn't your momma tell you it's not nice to talk about other people's margins?

AviD

@Polynomial you could ask him to show you a picture of his margin. I hear you're into that.

4

Polynomial

haha

Or, potentially in Iszi's case, her margina.

I have no idea why that word amuses me so much.

AviD

butter is healthier.

Polynomial

15:21

haha

AviD

Progress on this customer's DFD eludes me.

its really not complicated. perhaps I out-un-motivated myself.

Polynomial

it's really bizarre when my playlist switches from Lynyrd Skynyrd to The Lonely Island

the contrast is really odd.

Iszi

@Polynomial Why don't you add that to our memes thread?

Polynomial

15:36

@Iszi Busy atm, you could do it instead?

Iszi

@Polynomial Heading out the door to a meeting very shortly myself.

Y'know... that weekday annoyance we call "work".

Scott Pack

To show respect for identity I did not take any pictures of @Iszi or h(is|er) margina?.

Iszi

16:05

@ScottPack Though I think you can attest to presence of facial hair that any female (short of those employed in certain entertainment industries) would be ashamed to display in public.

Rory Alsop

I go away for a day working with police/disaster recovery/large event security guys and I come back to that astonishing margina ----->

what's with you guys when left alone for a short while

hahaha - just thought to myself that a good resonse would be:

FOGEY

AviD

@Iszi jezebel.com/5946643/… . Lawyered.

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop yeah old man, stop harshing our mellow

(is that what young folks say these days?)

AviD

@RoryAlsop goddam fogey collegehumor.com/video/6420466/the-problem-with-jeggings

Rory Alsop

@AviD yup - that's the one

@AviD wow - how unlike the interwebs

that's quite lovely

Scott Pack

16:18

@RoryAlsop The best thing is that the OP came back, apologized, and owned up to being a dick. That really made me feel a little better about us as a people.

AviD

> Holy shit, internet, I don't even know you anymore! I never thought something would come out of the seeping necrotic abscess that is Reddit that would actually make my day better, but wow.

AviD

16:48

Hmm, okay I realized my problem. I'm stuck on this DFD, because the DFD needs to be extremely simple. All the complexity is hidden within the isolations and authorizations logic.

while this can be modeled in a DFD, it doesnt lend itself naturally to this.

@RoryAlsop or anyone else - know of any diagramming artifact (or non-diagram) that supports modeling complex authorization/isolation?

strange to me that I do not know of one, come to think of it the best I've seen/used was a complicated table. Which is not very best.

Adnan

17:11

@Polynomial, pretty neat youtube.com/watch?v=fT9bI0irTZo

Polynomial

not a big fan of melodic / prog

not enough downtuned guitars and growling for my tastes ;)

Adnan

@Polynomial Isn't Ensiferum melodic folk?

Oh I see I see, in that case yes, Ensiferum also has lots of downtuned guitars and growling

Polynomial

:P

►

more than growly / downtuned enough for me

Rory Alsop

I quite like Therion though...

Polynomial

I like to listen to Ensiferum when playing Diablo 3

makes it feel more like an ancient Nordic battlefield

Adnan

17:16

Now this is something we can all agree that is neat.
http://www.codingconfessional.com/?sort=absolves

@RoryAlsop Right?! :D

Tinned_Tuna

I'm trying to run John on my machine, but I want to use it to crack an md5 hash of something that looks like md5(secret || "constant") where constant is known, does anyone have enough experience with john in this case?

Rory Alsop

@Adnan heh

Tinned_Tuna

(or any places to find resources about this)

Rory Alsop

@Polynomial Makes me go Raaaarrrrrr

Polynomial

@Tinned_Tuna I'd try oclHashcat instead. it's much faster and has options like that built in.

Tinned_Tuna

17:20

@Polynomial aye, unfortunately, it's not in the apt repos...

Rory Alsop

I only just got round to reading this- sounds awfully familiar:

arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/02/…

Tinned_Tuna

@Polynomial I'll have a look

Rory Alsop

Got to love conspiracy theories (yes can you tell I'm on reddit/r/wtf right now? :-)

►

Polynomial

> Sometimes when try to type debugger, my hand is in the wrong spot and I type denigger and feel bad.

I've done that before.

stupid QWERTY.

Adnan

Not much of a security question, but I think you guys might know the answer

When I upload an image to imgur directly from my computer, even before it's actually uploaded, imgur views a small thumbnail

How is it doing it?

Rory Alsop

17:39

majick

Adnan

@RoryAlsop come on! :(

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop As a public employee I have a lot of trouble believing that any government agency would be capable of so successfully committing such an endeavor.

Adnan

@ScottPack I don't like conspiracy theories and this is in no way about 9/11. But governments are capable committing even more.

Scott Pack

@Adnan Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm making no judgements regarding the ethics or morality of a government performing such an action. I'm simply doubting the ability of an agency to perform such a large expansive action while maintaining sufficient operational collaboration, let alone secrecy, to be meaningful.

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack they simply aren't that organised ... in any country

Scott Pack

17:46

@RoryAlsop Exactly.

Rory Alsop

ours couldn't organise a drinking session in a brewery, I've noticed

Scott Pack

It would be like the German internment camps being run without any citizens knowing they existed or the guards knowing who was interned.

Adnan

Wow! This is the first time I know that an HTTP-served page can use file:/// resources!

CodesInChaos

@Adnan What kind of resources? AFAIK this was mostly disabled about a decade ago

Adnan

@CodesInChaos True. It appears that my last sentence was wrong.

@CodesInChaos Do you have any idea about this? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8276392#8276392

CodesInChaos

17:55

our browser game had the option to use local resources, allowing people to use custom skins

but at some point that requires the user configuring special exceptions in his browser

@Adnan After selecting a file in a file input element, the website gets access to that file

Adnan

@CodesInChaos Ahaaa! Finally! I can rest in peace

Thank you

CodesInChaos

the path of such an element isn't settable programmatically, the user needs to do it (drag and drop or OpenFileDialog)

Rory Alsop

ooh - just got an Ingress invitation :-)

Thomas Pornin

18:21

@ScottPack That's really the point. "Conspiracy theories" are a psychological reflex. People believe in them because they really want to believe that there is someone, somewhere, who is both in charge of things and competent.

Adam McKissock

@ThomasPornin HA! Competence.....

Rory Alsop

@AdamMcKissock what is it good for?

Absolutely...

Nuthin'

Adam McKissock

Sing it again y'all!

Jeff Ferland

Conferences be exhausting

Adnan

18:45

I'm on eBay trying to buy a rubber duck for my rubber duck debugging

Adam McKissock

@Adnan I have a SATA cable for that

Adnan

@AdamMcKissock This is ridiculous! A SATA cable is not capable of understanding the code!

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan When I do rubber duck debugging, I don't use a rubber duck, I use colleagues.

Adam McKissock

@Adnan Of course it can! How dare you insult the intelligence of my SATA cable!

Adnan

@ThomasPornin Depending on with whom you're working, it might be almost exactly the same :p

Thomas Pornin

18:56

@Adnan When I punch a rubber duck, the duck does not suffer. Really not the same thing.

Adnan

@ThomasPornin Can't argue with the bear

Jeff Ferland

@Adnan I just bought 26 of them for my office

Started handing them out this morning

Adnan

@JeffFerland mmm.. If it wouldn't be VERY weird in Finland, I'd do it.

Jeff Ferland

Why are Finnish rubber ducks weird?

Adnan

Giving gifts to your workmates without a reason is frowned upon

Adam McKissock

19:06

@Adnan Depends what you're giving them...

I used to take in cupcakes all the time

Adnan

@AdamMcKissock In Finland? :O

Adam McKissock

@Adnan No....

Scott Pack

@JeffFerland So's your mom.

Adam McKissock

why is it frowned upon in finland?

Jeff Ferland

@Adnan "This is to help you be a better programmer." Reason. Seriously, I wouldn't consider the ducks a gift.

this.josh

19:12

@RoryAlsop No, not that Josh.

this.josh

19:25

Why not rubber hose debugging?

Polynomial

@this.josh You mean Rubber duck debugging?

rubber hose would imply debugging via hurting people.

Thomas Pornin

@Polynomial It works, too.

Adnan

@this.josh I think you mean this

Polynomial

@Adnan That's rubber hose crypto.

not debugging

Adnan

Well, there's bug, and it's fixed, using a rubber hose.

In my book, it's rubber hose debugging

this.josh

19:32

Yes I meant self-flagellation .

Adnan

@this.josh Before I looked flagellation up, I thought you meant something dirty.

TildalWave

(chuckles)

@RoryAlsop since you said you love conspiracy theories, what do you make out of HAARP project? I can't wrap my head around it frankly, as I totally don't get the science behind it at all

The more I read what's it supposed to do, the less it makes any sense, so I'm inclined to think they're not really disclosing its true purpose

Digital Fire

19:54

@TildalWave HAARP isn't conspiracy theory. It's a military project aimed at geo-engineering.

Funded by DARPA

TildalWave

@DigitalFire If that's true then how is geo-engineering not conspiratory?

Lucas Kauffman

@TildalWave It's only conspiratory if it doesn't exist. We know where you live TildalWave.

Digital Fire

Modifying the weather is not a conspiracy.

Iszi

@AviD Wow. That's just awesome.

Digital Fire

Cloud seeding

Cloud seeding, a form of intentional weather modification, is the attempt to change the amount or type of precipitation that falls from clouds, by dispersing substances into the air that serve as cloud condensation or ice nuclei, which alter the microphysical processes within the cloud. The usual intent is to increase precipitation (rain or snow), but hail and fog suppression are also widely practiced in airports. The most common chemicals used for cloud seeding include silver iodide and dry ice (solid carbon dioxide). Liquid propane, which expands into a gas, has also been used. Thi...

^ geo-engineering

Lucas Kauffman

19:58

@TildalWave also what do you have against belgium :O

@DigitalFire The chinese did that during the olympics

TildalWave

OK but a system like HAARP has in theory infinite range, that's the whole point of it

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