The DMZ

nobody

00:54

@belkarx Multiple choice calculus? You mean I can just punch everything into the calculator and get all the answers?

forest

This is cool: eprint.iacr.org/2004/101.pdf. Apparently the kind of thing extremely-high security cryptosystems use which need to be provably immune to side-channel attacks (e.g. hardware critical for "national security"). I wonder how many COTS HSMs or crypto accelerator ICs use that technique.

belkarx

@nobody Essentially. There were a few free response questions at the end but it was overwhelmingly multiple choice (calculators were only allowed on some questions though)

nobody

@belkarx Ah, no calculators.

So basically, I'd fail it. I have a wonderful habit of making a stupid mistake midway through the integration process (usually mess up some signs or something), and with MCQs, I'd get zero marks for that

belkarx

Unfortunate, though with a lot of grading systems you'd get zero marks regardless

@forest Initially when I saw "mask" I thought it would be some form of nonce but the way this is done is much more interesting

forest

Yeah this is a way to mask the internal operations.

nobody

01:03

@belkarx Heh, glad I'm not in any of those grading systems. I wouldn't want to lose 10 marks because I did everything right but wrote a plus instead of a minus. Plus with a calculator, I can usually recheck my answers and figure out where I flipped a sign

Wait, is having an LGBTQ flag as your profile picture offensive now?

forest

So... we'll see him in another 364 days, I guess.

forest

01:52

Yeah that was the first suspension.

nobody

06:19

shit, I didn't read any of those messages...

Maybe I should set up my anti-deletion script again

Journeyman Geek

06:49

@nobody tldr: We don't discuss suspensions. The reasons ought to have been communicated with the user in question, and its a matter between them and the person/site that carried out the suspension.

A. Hersean

08:08

@JourneymanGeek Isn't judgment supposed to be public? Even before democracies they where public. How are other users supposed to know what could warrant a full year ban when no obvious conflict with the terms and conditions are present? How other users could notice an abuse of power from an individual?

Rory Alsop

@A.Hersean If you follow our general rule which is "Be Nice" then you'll be fine

there is the code of conduct which helps give some examples

but just be nice

Journeyman Geek

@A.Hersean In my experience? That never goes well, lots of drama, arguements....

A. Hersean

Yeah, but I don't find where Mech was not nice since he got back.

Journeyman Geek

+ it dosen't respect folks privacy

A. Hersean

I'm always respectful, even IRL, that's not the issue. The issue is safeguards. Are there any?

Journeyman Geek

08:11

@A.Hersean Well - if its a mod, it can get escalated to a CM. We can query the reasons if its a CM

But that's for Mech to do

A. Hersean

OK, so Mech has recourse, he can escalate that with SE. I remember that when well for Monica.

I guess I'll stop there. I don't want to troll.

Journeyman Geek

@A.Hersean You don't

Rory Alsop

@A.Hersean Yes, there is more oversight than you might expect

A. Hersean

I hope so.

Journeyman Geek

@A.Hersean If nothing else - if the reason was totally bogus, we'd raise a stink in private

Rory Alsop

08:15

mods are pretty good at providing independent challenge

A. Hersean

Yeah, but I don't know the extent of info you mods have that I don't.

So it's hard to guess whether you could easily know the reason behind the ban.

Journeyman Geek

We can ask. In situations like this, its a bit messy but the local mods are generally kept appraised

nobody

09:08

I kinda feel like changing my own profile pic to the flag in protest though

I'm pretty damn sure that's why they suspended him

And to me, that's absolutely ridiculous

@RoryAlsop I tend to disbelieve these sort of statements when they are presented with absolutely no evidence

Rory Alsop

09:33

@nobody that's fine. There is absolutely no requirement to present evidence

@nobody well that's not correct, so your certainty is misplaced

nobody

@RoryAlsop So why did they change his profile pic back to what it was before?

Rory Alsop

@nobody that would be between them and Mech

nobody

So my certainty wasn't misplaced :)

Rory Alsop

no point making guesses or discussing here. Same as all suspensions - they are a private matter and almost never due to one thing. Overall behaviours, or continued misbehaviour are the usual reasons suspensions happen

Journeyman Geek

10:03

@nobody thats a bit of a frustration here - quite a lot of moderation depends on trust. In situations like this, we have to balance the needs of the community with a certain degree of confidenciality and the requirements of our corporate overlords. Practically - with the users, we can't work without a certain degree of trust

With SE, if we're not heeded/respected, our only option is to, well, quit and walk away.

So we sometimes need to be able to go "yeah, we brought it up" or even "trust me" - and have folks accept that

schroeder

15:59

@MechMK1 check your account!! 1 hour!!

CaffeineAddiction

@RoryAlsop pretty sound rule for life in general ... "Dont be a DB"

Fire Quacker

Agreed. People abuse databases all the time.

CaffeineAddiction

lol

@FireQuacker if you dislike what they do w/ databases ... you should see what they get up to w/ Excel Spreadsheets ... its downright criminal

Aibobot

@CaffeineAddiction 90 percent of my job feels like pivot tables :D

Fire Quacker

I saw Doom 3D in Excel

CaffeineAddiction

16:11

@FireQuacker pff, hold my beer

A 3D roller coaster in Excel

►

Raytracing - in Excel!!

►

Fire Quacker

16:47

@schroeder I wish I could at least say goodbye to my friends, but this will have to do. I can tell I am no longer welcome here by the powers that be, so I'll exit stage left. It's been lovely. I'll miss you all. — MechMK1 35 mins ago

2

CaffeineAddiction

17:01

wait, what?

he came back and immediately got himself a time out again?

nobody

17:12

@FireQuacker I dunno what he means there...

Did he just refuse to say goodbye to us?

@J-- Yeah, for the crime of having the LGBT flag in his profile picture

2

Fire Quacker

I think he's deleting his account and leaving entirely, but you'd have to ask a mod to be sure

And he can't post here to say goodbye

nobody

@FireQuacker What was the hour timer for?

Fire Quacker

I'm not sure

nobody

I wish we had set up an off-site chat before

Something better than IRC

Fire Quacker

@schroeder Did Mech schedule his account for deletion? Is that what the timer is for?

I want to make sure I'm not starting rumors

It's on the main site. Click on the time stamp

nobody

17:25

I don't think he was the powers that be that suspended him...

Journeyman Geek

17:46

@J-- I don't think they will chase me off that easy ._.

well to be blunt - well some of the rules here when applied to the letter of them are... well not for everyone. There's a reason I'm naggy about some stuff ._.

I've lived through a whole buncha drama and this sorta thing

and as tempting as it is to be pissed at the staff (and I've been there too) - there's the whole pesky social contract with the 'landlord' and well,very different understandings of what's ok

(I'm literally in one chatroom which is all the same people as SE chat only we can swear :D )

or talk a bit more privately than a wide open chatroom

Well - to some extent, you can do stuff without pushing the boundaries, and someone getting grouchy

(I'm not blaming mech entirely - but I've seen far too much go wrong when a chatroom's culture... was kinda a little too off the wall)

We had an actual entire main chatroom closed once (mos eisley)

@J-- it isn't really a solution cause new folks don't come in

so unless you have a super solid core of folks or other utilities for the system keeping it healthy is a pain

Fire Quacker

Didn't the C++ folks form an off-site chat in place of the Lounge on SO chat?

Journeyman Geek

snort probably

I once had a recaltrant troll turn up there, then quit the network completely

Fire Quacker

Looks like they moved to discord

Journeyman Geek

yeah, its mostly that or slack

ThoriumBR

18:07

I missed the commotion here

most of the traffic here was because of Meck, and when he is off there's no much talk around here, and that's sad.

CaffeineAddiction

@JourneymanGeek are you talking about the "staff" in the third person?

lol, you have a diamond Journey

nobody

RIP user163495 aka MechMK1

6

CaffeineAddiction

@nobody RIP

Journeyman Geek

@CaffeineAddiction I'm not staff

ThoriumBR

@J-- not only weird, I think it's wrong. this is not the main site, a very slim minority of users know about the chats, and banning him on the main because of this?

CaffeineAddiction

18:15

@JourneymanGeek wait, do both staff and mods have dimonds?

Journeyman Geek

@ThoriumBR that's partially cause the chat suspension system is terrible

@CaffeineAddiction ....

kinda?

ThoriumBR

so fix it, or disable it

Journeyman Geek

@CaffeineAddiction CMs and some other staff have diamonds too

nobody

@JourneymanGeek That's not a good excuse, specially for staff

CaffeineAddiction

they should prob differentiate Mods from Employees

ThoriumBR

18:16

someone is feeling abused? implement an "ignore user" feature and done

Journeyman Geek

though they have a superset of what we can do

@ThoriumBR we have one, and it dosen't really solve the problems involved

@CaffeineAddiction on meta sites, they have a staff tag

CaffeineAddiction

yah, ignoring toxicity doesn't solve toxicity ... it just gives it a place to fester

Journeyman Geek

and there's like 200-300 mods and 14 CMs, not all of whom are active on chat

CaffeineAddiction

I personaly never had an issue w/ Mech, but I can understand why some did

ThoriumBR

I never had a problem with him either

well, it's time to unpin the DMZ tab...

I may stop by from time to time, if you guys come up with another chat service you can ping me...

nobody

18:19

@ThoriumBR SE honestly... I don't have much reason left to return, if the chat community gets killed

I have reached my 10k goal, no reason to contribute any further

ThoriumBR

the community is being killed

I crossed 50k, so I can convince employers I know about it security, so...

the chat don't have to be 4chan, but don't need to be kindergarten chat either... if the moderation is getting too heavy handed, it's not turning to a good place to talk

Journeyman Geek

on the other hand - and least in my experience, its... kinda difficult to nudge folks when stuff's too much on the 4chan side

not just here.

ThoriumBR

well, when no one is talking, there's no problems to solve...

2

Journeyman Geek

there's lots of conversations about, well topical stuff

ThoriumBR

for now

well, there was lots of conversations

nobody

18:25

pffft, who comes to chat for on topic discussion?

Journeyman Geek

and tbh, a lot of the troublesome stuff is edginess for edginess sake

ThoriumBR

meck is out, I don't think I will stay here any longer

nobody

@J-- Well, see the important part is "sort of" :P

ThoriumBR

I wish I had my anti-delete script running, or to be here during the messages...

too late now

nobody

@ThoriumBR Which messages?\

ThoriumBR

18:30

the string of deleted messages

nobody

@ThoriumBR Hmmm? which ones? Can you link the message before them?

ThoriumBR

I have one script that makes the chat just change the background of deleted messages...

let me check

@nobody start after this one

nobody

Wait, did I delete too soon?

ThoriumBR

nope, I got it

nobody

good

Don't know about the rest though

ThoriumBR

18:34

the intention is judged... orwell would be proud...

nobody

Maybe it was journey chastising forest

ThoriumBR

I'll stop before the axe finds me

nobody

Regardless of the intention, it could not have possibly offended anyone, because no malice was ever indicated

So long y'all, take care. I may or may not return.

Had to return and post this: i.sstatic.net/N2L3N.png :D

ThoriumBR

had to return to post this...

bye guys, see you around

ThoriumBR

18:59

mech deleted even his site... can someone please send me some way to contact him? my nick at gmail is my email

Journeyman Geek

19:59

Or ping him and ask first?

ThoriumBR

20:13

he found me, I wasn't difficult to find after all

I could message him offsite using an unconventional method and he could trace the message back to me, sort of...

I got worried when he deleted all content on his personal site too, but he said he is fine...

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