The DMZ

forest

00:01

Not like the previous generations were particularly bright...

belkarx

we may have peaked with the 1970s kids

70s-90s maybe

forest

They turned stupid too.

Humans are stupid in general.

We're just seeing a new flavor of stupid, but deep down, it's still the same stupid.

belkarx

Very true. IQ does seem to be getting higher on avg but it's not a great measure of intelligence and people are using their brains less

forest

People can be stupid and have a high IQ.

There are plenty of bright fools out there.

belkarx

Yup

forest

00:08

Speaking of, yesterday I had an argument with someone in another room on SE about firearms, and he unironically said that cars that go too fast should be banned so they can't go faster than the highest speed limit in the US (a suggestion I made to him to show him how silly his firearms argument sounded, but which he actually agreed with).

The authoritarian mindset of "if some people misuse X and X isn't strictly necessary, then no one should be allowed X" is appallingly common. "Why should anyone have X if they don't need it?" is a staple of authoritarianism. And, of course, the government should be the one to decide what is "needed".

And he wasn't an idiot, just horribly misled.

Fire Quacker

00:25

@forest Some people misuse government...

forest

Some governments misuse people.

Journeyman Geek

@ThoriumBR 25 floppy upgrade version 🤣

ThoriumBR

I found a great definition of stupidity: "it's when an individual does something prejudicial to itself and to others"

the antivax movement is stupidity, the flat earth movement is just cluelessness

forest

The flat earth movement is hilarious.

ThoriumBR

what baffles me is "who profits from the earth being flat or round?"

every conspiracy must have someone profiting from something

maybe the ones charging fees to be part of the flat earth society are the ones profiting...

but that would be "the flat earth conspiracy", not the "round earth conspiracy"

forest

00:35

And they keep blaming NASA but argue that the conspiracy started centuries ago.

ThoriumBR

and what would NASA gain from this? expending uncountable amount of money on CGI, on blinding satellites, on mass media control... for what?

forest

"Controlling the people" or some shit. I mean... how does that control anyone?

ThoriumBR

for kudos? "hehe, we spent a trillion dollars during a century and convinced everyone the earth was round when it was flat"

yep! that's the point! how lying about the shape of the planet controls anything?

forest

@ThoriumBR And they actually use the tax money they get. It's not like an NSA-style black hole where it could be going to anything. They're building billion dollar space programs to do what? Launch them a few miles in the air and then blow them up when no one is looking? That's a lot of wasted money not going to the supposed elite.

ThoriumBR

the opposite would mean something, like "the earth is round, but if we convince everyone that it's flat we can have a secret base outside of the edge and nobody would think of navigating there"

forest

00:38

But don't they believe the edge is impossible to break?

Like it's made of god's wall of ice?

ThoriumBR

yep, but if they know there's no edge but tells everyone there's an edge, they can easily put a base there and nobody would dare to go close to the edge and fall to space

forest

Don't they believe space is fake as well?

ThoriumBR

it would be like the edge of a table, you run off it, you fall

forest

Like stars are just points on a giant glass dome and that planets are illusions.

ThoriumBR

a rotating glass dome

I would like to have the computer drawing the space simulations... now anyone can have a pretty decent telescope, so imagine the resolution of that LCD screen displaying uncountable galaxies with uncountable stars... it must be epic.

a dozen RTX3090 aren't enough

forest

00:41

Obviously god is responsible. He made the glass dome and NASA is trying to turn everyone into an atheist!

forest

00:53

Amusing crypto snakeoil from 1999: schneier.com/crypto-gram/archives/1999/0215.html#snakeoil

There's a lot less crypto snakeoil around these days for whatever reason.

Plenty of bad implementations, but less homebrew crap.

But there's some great old snakeoil. My favorite line ever, from mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/tjRNuWOcYYwZ9v5r5W1nYr3SU2c:

> But you will clog up the mailing list with NSA-backed crypto schemes that embed multiple copies of the data in higher dimensions where your cheap computing resources can't see it? Or didn't you spot this?

He's talking about AES :D

forest

01:25

This is lovely (from meganet.com, the only link I could find that still works on Schneier's list of snakeoil crypto).

meganet.com/Technology/intro.asp meganet.com/Technology/explain.asp :D

They also have a bomb jammer that they claim has a 100% success rate and jams "all known radio frequency standards". Bomb makers are such law-abiding citizens that they would never dare think of using a non-standard frequency! Why would a bomb-maker do such a thing as not follow the FCC's rules? meganet.com/Products/VMERF/VMERF.asp

And even if it did jam more than just existing standard frequency ranges with a broad-spectrum jammer... I bet I could trivially get around it with DSSS or even plain old FHSS. And I'm not even that good with RF stuff!

belkarx

02:51

lol

Journeyman Geek

14:01

@forest technically jamming all the radio frequencies is... something the FCC would be unhappy about

also, I think most of these bombs just use COTS stuff, a 12v relay with a remote control or a 2g phone is cheap as chips

so unless you're an actual military no point reinventing the expendable wheel

CaffeineAddiction

14:37

now w/ labels for FRONT and TOP ... incase your agency needed help w/ that

<.< not sure how it being upright would matter at all when jamming frequencies though

Journeyman Geek

Could be a directional antenna

.... one of the connector says that

CaffeineAddiction

wouldnt they do a claymore type thing then .. front twards enemy?

Journeyman Geek

or a big flat antenna array

Journeyman Geek

15:32

the jokes here are you can probably buy one of aliexpress that's a lot smaller - and they're basically a copy of Ladyada's doctoral or masters project

ladyada.net/make/wavebubble for example

and you don't need to be a genious to do that

techtimes.com/articles/161146/20160526/… and cnet.com/culture/…

forest

21:21

@JourneymanGeek They only sell the jammer to the military.

CaffeineAddiction

@forest officially ...

forest

@CaffeineAddiction They're a shit scam-like company so I doubt they sell much, but I do think they only sell to the military.

But there are far better, more powerful jammers you can buy that don't only go to the military.

Thing is... any sort of spread spectrum will bypass most jammers.

If you use DSSS with OFDM and time-hopping, you'll have very high LPI/LPD (Low Probability of Interception/Detection), but it also provides strong resistance to broad-spectrum jamming. Only spread spectrum that operates on a small number of discrete channels (like Bluetooth) can be easily jammed, and even that requires some serious wattage.

Amusingly, there's a risk that a jammer might actually set a bomb off.

Journeyman Geek

21:41

@forest it's probably an old cots system you can get cheaper, and literally blocks phones and garage door openers 😁

forest

Probably.

Literally the hardest part of jamming is the power supply.

Actually jamming is very easy if the signal isn't attempting any sort of countermeasures.

Journeyman Geek

aliexpress.com/item/32956103016.html

I mean range aside....

(I use something like that to turn my led strips on and off)

forest

Jamming a signal is a quixotic task.

There's always a way around it, if you don't mind sacrificing some bandwidth.

Journeyman Geek

Well in Iraq I believe they used old phones to set off bombs. The targets here are not that sophisticated

forest

Not surprised.

Journeyman Geek

21:48

So basically an old Nokia with an extra spicy ring tone

forest

But even then... just send an SMS every 30 seconds to inhibit detonation. Then if the signal is jammed, it detonates after, say, 45 seconds of no response.

Journeyman Geek

That takes up power

forest

Not all that much.

Journeyman Geek

+ if memory serves it's literally just wired into the ringing circuit

It's simply an extra loud ringtone

I have no idea why I remember this 😅

forest

That makes sense.

I know "terrorist watches" (old $5 Casio wrist watches) were commonly used as bomb timers because you could open the back and the piezo buzzer circuit exposed two large plates that you could easily stick wires on.

Journeyman Geek

21:51

yup

forest

Yeah they're really not that sophisticated, I guess...

Journeyman Geek

tbh that's a danger of security folks

forest

lol we overestimate our adversaries?

Journeyman Geek

Actual actual reality: nobody cares about his secrets. (Also, I would be hard-pressed to find that wrench for $5.)

You forget about wrenches

forest

To be fair, wrenches only matter in very niche circumstances.

Journeyman Geek

21:53

Its easy to think of sophisticated threats cause they are interesting

forest

Good luck beating a password out of me if it was generated by a TLS library and I never even saw it.

Journeyman Geek

but often the boring ones are the ones that get ya

forest

@JourneymanGeek And because we're never hired to protect from the really unsophisticated ones.

Journeyman Geek

maybe not :D

forest

Me, trying to disarm an IED: OK they might be using OFDM, so jamming is no good. Perhaps if we send an EMP to try to glitch any microprocessors? But if they shield them they could protect from that, and then detect the attempt... Let's get out the RTL-SDR and try to find any frequencies they're using to communicate with it, and hope their scramble seed is generated using an LFSR or something. Let's pull up that research paper on passively monitoring microprocessors with magnetism!
Terrorist, hiding in a corner with a gun pointed at the bomb: ...

Journeyman Geek

21:55

more or less

or its literally 2 wires and a scared teenager told its his chance to go to heaven

or an old nokia, or a butt phone

forest

yeah

Journeyman Geek

unrelatedly, those relays are fun :D

forest

22:23

@MechMK1 Welcome back.

forest

22:33

That's weird... it says you have only 1 rep but it doesn't say you're suspended anymore.

Oh, 4 minutes left on your suspension in chat at least. Counting down the seconds?

MechMK1

22:51

Happy Pride Month, my friends!

Did you miss me?

forest

heh

I always lose track of what month means what.

MechMK1

My rep is still not back

forest

Yeah I asked in TL about that. Apparently it recalculates at the hour.

MechMK1

June is the most important month after all

Probably

forest

38

A: After my suspension period, my reputation was not returned

Reputation is recalculated literally at the same time as the suspension is lifted: However, suspensions are cleared once an hour. The scheduler might not run exactly when your suspension is scheduled to expire, which gives the illusion of a delay between suspension expiration and a reputat...

I was gone for a few weeks while you were gone as well, so the timing worked out.

MechMK1

22:53

Yes, I saw

forest

What's your new profile picture on the main site? I'm guessing some sort of pride-related thing?

MechMK1

Why it's the pride flag of course

forest

I don't know anything about LGBT flags. They each mean something different, but I recognized the rainbow.

MechMK1

To show I'm an ally to LGBTQ+ people

forest

Ah

MechMK1

22:54

I have to admit that I could be a much better ally and know every person's identity, but then again, identity is something that is individual to the person and shouldn't be put into drawers

forest

I uh

Someone hacked Mech's account. Only explanation.

MechMK1

It's all about tolerance and inclusion :^)

forest

I missed your passive aggressive retaliation. <3

MechMK1

I missed you too <3

forest

With that said... I got a smack on the hand for not deleting your alleged transphobic comments, so I think I have to be more proactive from now on. Beware 30 second suspensions and comment deletions.

MechMK1

22:57

I cannot believe that there would ever be an instance of me being transphobic

forest

Obviously it was a misunderstanding because you're such an ally. :^)

Like that.

lol

MechMK1

But why? I'm just being a good ally

:D

forest

Very good.

MechMK1

As it should be

We here should strive to be shining examples of tolerance and inclusion

forest

I'm quite inclusive myself. Unlike everyone else, I welcome blackhats.

And I tolerate broken laws.

MechMK1

23:00

I welcome everyone

Except transphobes

Certainly not those people

forest

TERFs or whatever they're called.

MechMK1

One group of transphobes, yes

Very bad people

Their views that women should get separate spaces from men are reprehensible

Because trans-women are obviously women.

And trying to exclude them from womens-only spaces is transphobic

forest

Honestly, I think gendered bathrooms are stupid in the first place.

MechMK1

This genuinely always bothered me

forest

We need to stop being such prudes and treat men and women equally.

MechMK1

23:03

Because when there is a long line at the women's bathroom, women seem to have no problem with going in the men's bathroom

forest

But it seems like nowadays, egalitarian feminism is somehow seen as misogynistic?

MechMK1

But vice versa is a huge issue

forest

I've never seen that happen.

But I live in America. It could be different here.

MechMK1

Women going to the men's bathroom?

Or it being an issue with men going to the women's bathroom?

forest

Women going into the men's bathroom.

MechMK1

23:05

It happens a lot during breaks at large events

Since men pee much faster than women, just due to parallelism

forest

But I think gender-neutral bathrooms would be best for everyone.

MechMK1

I personally don't care who has to suffer through my shits

forest

The people who claim it's for "safety" obviously don't know what they're talking about.

MechMK1

As I said, I personally don't care

forest

It's not like trans people are child molesters. That's just a dumb transphobic talking point.

MechMK1

23:06

Yes, definitely

Very transphobic

forest

Which is ironic because more heterosexuals are child molesters than transsexuals.

MechMK1

Of course

cishet men are very evil

forest

lol well that's not what I meant

MechMK1

:D

forest

:^)

MechMK1

23:08

I miss shitposting

forest

I'm serious though. People who worry over trans people being child molesters are idiots.

It's just transphobic talking points (and real transphobia, not "boys and girls is offensive because it's binary" kind of "transphobia").

MechMK1

I have no kids, so I have little stakes in the game

forest

I have a kid but I've never been worried about her getting abused.

Mostly because she's not an idiot. Also she has a gun.

MechMK1

That's good

forest

More likely to die in a car accident than anything else.

People can't into statistics for some reason.

MechMK1

23:11

Indeed

and cancer

and the results of obesity

forest

yup

MechMK1

The deadliest things are the three C's:

Cars, Cancer and Chicken Nuggets

forest

Everyone's afraid of school shooters and perverts and terrorists... and then let their toddlers wander around pools unattended and keep loaded guns around the house while refusing to teach their kids gun safety.

Meanwhile I give her drugs so I don't have to be high alone. I am vry gud parent.

MechMK1

Very simple: It all has to do with how "flashy" something seems

forest

@MechMK1 And how much sensationalist news coverage there is.

The whole school shooting gun scare is ridiculous in my opinion.

MechMK1

23:15

Of course

forest

It's the media that's turning guns into bogeyman and motivating wannabe Adam Lanzas into going for it.

Then the media cries "why is there so much gun violence!?" as if they don't know.

I mean... maybe you're, I dunno, glorifying gun violence? Turning shootings into the go-to "fuck society" move?

@MechMK1 Oh also some staff had a problem with me talking with you using PGP and asked for the private key.

When I just sent that message about your suspension (since I can't discuss reason for suspensions in public).

I think "how PGP works" should be taught in primary school so people realize that private keys can only decrypt what is sent to you, not what you send to others. I wonder how the school system would change if all students knew how to send private messages to each other that the teachers couldn't access...

MechMK1

23:32

>asking for someone's private key

forest

I mean, one could certainly encrypt with an escrow key as well...

MechMK1

I mean, that would still be a huge dealbreaker for me

forest

Of course.

MechMK1

That's as if my boss asked me to show him private conversations between me and my girlfriend

forest

I just like posting base64 encodings of the sum of large primes. Just for the mathy fun.

And sometimes I even like to do modular exponentiation with the product!

MechMK1

23:35

My immediate response would be "No"

Not even a further elaboration

forest

Yeah but you can't talk back to a CM like that, especially as a mod.

MechMK1

Was it a question or a demand?

forest

Better to just obey and link to a paste with PGP messages rather than post them here.

Journeyman Geek

Sure you can :D

forest

Neither. Just a "it doesn't look good to do this" and "we need to know what content we're hosting".

Journeyman Geek

23:36

on the other hand

MechMK1

What a weird demand

What if you posted something in chinese

Journeyman Geek

Anything posted here shouldn't be mysteriously encrypted or anything

MechMK1

Would they demand a translation?

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 I have a translator built into my browser

MechMK1

But translators don't always work well

forest

23:37

@JourneymanGeek How about non-mysteriously? :D

Journeyman Geek

+ we generally have an english by default soft rule here

MechMK1

What if I posted something written in dialect?

forest

@JourneymanGeek That's why we use our own rooms.

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 fundamentally - if we can't moderate it, we just treat any flags on it as valid :D

MechMK1

Would a CM have the right to demand a translation?

forest

23:38

@JourneymanGeek But you know for a fact that any flags not made by the involved parties are invalid.

@MechMK1 I don't think so. It doesn't seem like an actual rule.

And I couldn't find anything about it on the mod-internal resources.

Journeyman Geek

@forest mostly cause of the russian stuff

forest

@JourneymanGeek How's this: Any time Mech and I talk in PGP, I'll make sure a moderator can read them. :P

MechMK1

I'm a bit wary of demands not backed by mutually agreed on rules, but soley by someone's supposed authority.

forest

@MechMK1 Or de novo interpretations of existing rules.

And there are no policies, internal or otherwise, that mods must be able to read all content posted. There are certainly individual rooms which have language rules, but I can find nothing that is network-wide.

Journeyman Geek

@forest or ... take it to IRC

forest

23:42

Nah. Would be better to use a paste site than IRC for that.

MechMK1

Are there any mods fluent in russian or japanese?

forest

The mods of the Russian SO and Japanese SO are.

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 yes

forest

But there are plenty of languages that mods aren't fluent in.

MechMK1

Ah yes, of course

I forgot how huge SO is in comparison to the rest

Journeyman Geek

23:43

and staff - there's a russian CM and a mysterious Japanese Staffer ...

forest

But it's not required to post Russian text in a place where the Russian SO mods can read them.

MechMK1

So here is the thing

Journeyman Geek

Well, no, but least on chat - its a pain to moderate

MechMK1

If forest encrypts a message with my public key, can SE moderators or CMs then demand me to share my private key?

Journeyman Geek

so we need to wait for a russian speaking mod or 10ker

forest

23:45

@MechMK1 No. The most they could do is demand we stop using PGP to talk to each other on chat.

But I am skeptical that such a demand would be legitimate.

Journeyman Geek

@MechMK1 No

naw, we'd just ask nicely, kick where appropriate and escalate to a CM

:D

forest

@JourneymanGeek Pretty sure it's not a rule to talk in a language that at least one mod or CM understands.

Not a network-wide rule, at least. But even if it is... I suppose we could just use pastes, as I mentioned.

It's just a waste of time to do so when it accomplishes the same thing.

Journeyman Geek

@forest so - there's a few issues we've had

One of course - in a main room like this, its super disruptive

forest

Also, unlike a written language, there's no risk that a PGP message might offend someone who could flag it but which no mod could read to verify said flag.

Journeyman Geek

and that's a problem

MechMK1

23:48

I wouldn't mind a PGP message room

forest

@JourneymanGeek We don't back and forth messages in the main room for that very reason.

We've only ever used a new room for extended conversation.

MechMK1

Also

I noticed something

the text in my avatar is not perfectly centered

forest

Was it aligned before?

MechMK1

Apparently not

forest

You're not a very good ally.

MechMK1

23:56

Time to commit sudoku

Though honestly

forest

rip mech 2014 - too soon

MechMK1

It'd be just what my fucking autistic brain would do

In the ally-version of my avatar slighly misalign the text

forest

Become an hero for want of an aligned avatar?

lmfao apparently "An hero" on Wikipedia redirects to 4chan.

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