The DMZ

[1257] Master Lock Celebrates 100 Years of... Security?

10:41 AM

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What is happening?! Why do I get varnish cache server errors everywhere?

XKCD, StackOverflow...

Did some local cache in vienna burn down?

@MechMK1 Yeah, I'm getting it too now

But for SE, its just random sites that give a cache error

10:56 AM

@nobody Probably going to be in the news soon :D

@MechMK1 bbc.com/news/technology-57399628

:D

djsmiley2kStaysInside

11:45 AM

yeah it was on the news sites

but they were down

:D

(fast.ly outage)

So, how did the FBI get those bitcoins from the pipeline hack o_O

@djsmiley2kStaysInside tf?

djsmiley2kStaysInside

arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/…

"The seizure is consistent with statements from almost four weeks ago attributed to a DarkSide team leader. Without providing evidence, the post claimed that the group’s website and content-distribution infrastructure had been seized by law enforcement, along with all the cryptocurrency it had received from victims.
If true, the seizure would represent a small fortune. According to recently released figures from cryptocurrency tracking firm Chainalysis, DarkSide netted at least $60 million in its first seven months starting last August, with $46 million of it coming in the first three month…

@djsmiley2kStaysInside Or the FBI asked the NSA for a zero day?

If they were trying to cash out all at once, from one place, they are plain old idiots

You do not 0-day cryptography like that.

You 0 day the endpoints

A: How do I see the IP address of a bitcoin transaction?

11:52 AM

The FBI (maybe helped by NSA's infrastructure and tools) most likely tracked the transactions, found a server and raided it. The private key was most likely on the server. This is collaborated by the news article saying that a C&C server was raided.

41

No, IP addresses are not stored in the blockchain. But Gavin Andreson indeed notes that Unless you are very careful in the way you use Bitcoin (and you have the technical know-how to use it with other anonymizing technologies like Tor or i2p), you should assume that a persistent, motivat...

Well, that might be it. But law enforcement already knew they would be able to recover the bitcoins, since CP chose to pay 10% more with bitcoins.

No, the insurance would cover it.

@A.Hersean Cover bitcoin, but not monero?

Any

Then why wouldn't they choose monero? Bitcoin required a 10% higher payment (according to the article)

12:03 PM

Usually insurances cover up to a certain amount paid in ransom (like 15 million). I'm not even sure they would have to justify their choice. And if the police said they could bet 10% to maybe earn the ransom back while helping the police in its investingation, then that's an easy argumentation to give the insurers.

@nobody You can't trace monero like you can with bitcoin.

Possible. Though given that ransoms aren't usually recovered, I wonder if insurance would buy that argument.

It's a bet, and insurance companies love bets when in their favor. Also, maybe the 10% could have been covered by the FBI. But it's just empty speculation, the facts are that it's what happened (raid + bitcoin choice).

Q: What is "liberalism" in the USA political discourse?

12:53 PM

30

I've recently registered to Facebook and Quora. It exposed me to a lot of political propaganda, mostly USA-centric. Republicans blaming Democrats and vice versa. Reading this was an amusing and void waste of time, upon I stumbled on "liberal" blaming. I was quite astonished by the statement that ...

General rule of thumb for political discourse in the US: Words mean whatever someone wants them to mean.

"You're a fascist!" - "Can you define fascism for me then, please?" - "REEEEEE BLOCKING YOU YOU NAZI!"

In general, I feel like the quality of political discourse online is...low.

Let's keep it at low.

"Liberalism means people should be free" - "Okay, I want to be free to own a gun then." - "You can't." - "I want to be free to refuse service to gays then" - "You can't." - "I want to be free to put my child into schools which don't teach critical race theory." - "You can't."

1:13 PM

"I want more freedom, as in free labor."

"I want companies not to pay taxes."

Anonymous

2:14 PM

Hey.

Anonymous

Just wanted to let you know, my profile is scheduled for deletion.

Anonymous

So, goodbye, friends :)

Anonymous

I might come back, one day, who knows.

Anonymous

Nice knowing you all :)

Anonymous

oh and thanks for being cool!

2:17 PM

@JsupportsPalestine I would ask why, but I believe you have your reasons

But I am not going to lie, I will miss you.

Anonymous

Me too :D

Especially the late-night antisemitic shitposting <3

Anonymous

And, thank you @MechMK1 really :)

It's been real, my friend

@JsupportsPalestine If you do not mind me asking: It's your decision, imposed by SE, or by a 3rd party?

2:18 PM

@JsupportsPalestine Yeah you too :) (Hopefully I'm included in 'you all')

Anonymous

@A.Hersean My decision. No reflection of anything or anyone here.

Anonymous

@nobody Of course :D

I'm gonna guess J wants to come back with a more anonymous identity.

@JsupportsPalestine So nobody is part of everybody?

Doesn't make sense :)

Anonymous

@nobody Nobody is part of everybody :D

Anonymous

Hahahaha, I guess not :D

2:20 PM

OK. Bye and thanks for all the fish, then.

Anonymous

@nobody I can neither confirm nor deny.

Anonymous

@A.Hersean :D

@JsupportsPalestine I'm taking that as a confirmation :)

The NSA's analyst too.

Anonymous

Reminds me, did anyone see that the Sky ECC CEO was indicted? lol.

Anonymous

2:21 PM

"Knowingly allowing the distribution and sale of narcotics".

Anonymous

All because he ran a privacy app? Gross. (Not a very good one, but one nonetheless)

Some are marketed explicitly to organized crime.

Anonymous

I don't believe that Sky ECC was though... Even if it were, unless it said: "Do crime here" you could make the same argument about Signal, TLS, Tor...

Anonymous

What next? Moxie on a terrorism charge because Al Qaeda planned a bomb attack over Signal? TLS backdoor because a group of pedophiles used it? (The governments actually want this last one)

@JsupportsPalestine Nah because they planned to plan it

2:24 PM

"Ill intent" is mandatory to be guilty

Anonymous

Except nothing on the Sky ECC site implies ill intent.

Anonymous

Merely just a device (and apps) designed for privacy. SO what makes ill intent?

"As part of its services, Sky Global guarantees that messages stored on its devices can and will be remotely deleted by the company if the device is seized by law enforcement or otherwise compromised"

Anonymous

Unless they have a message of him personally saying: "sell drugs via my phone" he's done nothing wrong.

Anonymous

@A.Hersean Why is that illegal?

Anonymous

2:26 PM

Deleting messages that MIGHT be evidence at some point in 20 years is now a crime?

Anonymous

I fail to see the logic...

That's deletion of proof.

Anonymous

Right.

Anonymous

But it's not proof until it is.

Anonymous

So... Where's the crime?

2:26 PM

Yeah, only the government is allowed to do that

Anonymous

Does that mean I am not allowed to clear my hard drives? Might be evidence!

Exactly. Can't clear my browser history too.

Anonymous

This is a very thin line to walk...

If they did not store this data in the first place, their would be no crime. But if they market it as "when cops come you can delete your proof" it's an admission of trying to avoid the law.

Anonymous

I think even an idiot could see that.

Anonymous

2:27 PM

@A.Hersean I really don't agree with this logic.

Anonymous

I think it is harmful and wrong.

Anonymous

I mean, I see your point. But I don't accept it as reasonable.

Anonymous

As I said, somenthing is not evidence until it is.

Anonymous

SO they are basically trying to say: "anything can be evidence therefore you cannot delete it in-case it is"

No, it all comes down to intent. It's a proof of their intent to go against the law.

Anonymous

2:28 PM

Which means: "guilty until proven innocent"

Anonymous

And last I checked, that isn't the law.

You are confusing concepts

Anonymous

No, I am not.

Anonymous

That is what it implies.

Anonymous

How does it not imply that? It definitely does.

Anonymous

2:29 PM

@A.Hersean "to go against the law"

Anonymous

What is this? 1940 Germany? That is absurd.

Anonymous

So now going against the law is also an offense?

Anonymous

How can you go against the entirety of the law? That makes no sense at all.

Anonymous

If there was no offence in the content, then it isn't illegal to delete it.

Going against the law willingly is of course an offense. That's the definition of breaking the law.

Anonymous

2:30 PM

But what law?

@JsupportsPalestine That's to the judge to decide.

Anonymous

You're not breaking any law by having a system to delete messages.

of course not

Anonymous

This doesn't make sense to me. As I said, it seems very much like: "you cannot delete something in-case it might be evidence".

let me make a metaphore:

Anonymous

2:31 PM

Which I don't accept. Nor agree with. That is just stupid.

Anonymous

Also, "if the device is seized by law enforcement" - if this is wrong. Then you're basically saying that seizure = guilty.

Anonymous

Which is absolutely not true.

Anonymous

My phone can get seized at the roadside, that doesn't mean they have the power to search the content. It just means they can take it.

Anonymous

SO you see, this is a very dangerous precedent to set...

seizure = evidence protected by the law

2:33 PM

I agree with J here

Anonymous

Sure, but how could you know that before you are served with the seizure?

@A.Hersean If police failed to protect it, they should be held responsible.

Anonymous

So at what point is it evidence? And what point just data?

Anonymous

This is guilty until proven innocent. That is their entire logic.

Also, how do you know that blocking access to a device will protect it (i.e. a dead man's switch)

Law enforcement has long operated on the premise of guilty-until-proven-innocent.

Anonymous

2:35 PM

Yes, they have. This is just another classic case.

It's like if you are making kitchen knifes. Some people will tell you that they can be used to kill and are illegal, and of course they would be wrong. Signal & Sky "makes knives". However if you sell those knives and market them as "good to kill your wife", then you are selling a weapon and inciting to murder.

Anonymous

Sad, just sad. People wonder why I do not feel safe, this is why.

Anonymous

If they are willing to break law to "catch the bad guys" then what stops them breaking the law to harm me when it suits them? Their word? Nice... Very trustworthy.

3

Even worse, what stops them when they believe I am the "bad guy", when in reality, I am innocent?

Anonymous

@A.Hersean It's a nice metaphor. But my point stands, at what point is it evidence vs just data? Who decides that? The police? If the police decide that then guess what? It is always evidence. It will only ever be evidence as far as their concerned.

2:37 PM

The whole apparatus is designed to find a scapegoat as soon as possible and then twist the evidence to make them look guilty.

Anonymous

^

Police don't give a shit about "stopping criminals", police care about getting a conviction.

@JsupportsPalestine It's evidence if you admit it is. Which they did.

@MechMK1 Precisely. The system is designed to reward police for catching someone, anyone

Anonymous

^

2:38 PM

Doesn't matter if they are guilty or not

"They're gotta be guilty of something, right? Else we wouldn't have arrested them"

2

Well, in any case, here the police said "Sky build its tool to help organized crime to avoid the law". The judge will have to judge if Sky and its CEO did so on purpose.

It's circular reasoning. "We arrest them because they're guilty. They're guilty because we arrest them."

Anonymous

This precedent is harmful to literally every single person, hilariously, even the police officers themselves.

@A.Hersean To help anyone avoid LE. I don't consider LE my friend so I am completely justified to evade them. Specially since I don't feel safe with them.

2:39 PM

@MechMK1 No, they are arrested because they are suspected of wrongdoing. That's the police job. The judge job is to find if the police was right.

Anonymous

Lent a kitchen knife to Mike down the road? Well, Mike killed his wife so you're responsible!

Anonymous

Stupid logic... Beyond retarded.

@A.Hersean Police treat anyone as if they are guilty

You're arrested as a suspect, but treated like it is already proven you did it.

@JsupportsPalestine You are partially responsible only if you told Mike to kill his wife.

@A.Hersean Did Sky ECC do that?

2:41 PM

@nobody That's what the FBI claims

Anonymous

Telling someone they can delete data if they wish.

Anonymous

Is not the same as telling someone to do it.

Anonymous

These are different things...

Anonymous

The FBIs logic is totally faulty.

@JsupportsPalestine Not just if they wish, but when the police knocks on the door. HUGE difference.

Anonymous

2:42 PM

Except police knocking != warrant.

Anonymous

Police knocking can be any 1 of 100 things.

Yeah, but it is still evidence of ill intent.

"We already have all the evidence we need to lock you up, so it is in your best interest that you confess and get a lower sentence." - "I sincerely doubt the existence or legitimacy of this evidence, because I am acutely aware of my innocence. So any supposed evidence of a non-existent wrongdoing is either non-existent, or completely fabricated."

Maybe unfounded, but enough to be suspicious

Anonymous

Well, guess I am recovering my drives guys.

Anonymous

2:43 PM

Might be some crime sitting on it in the future.

@A.Hersean How so? Despite me not ever having committed a crime, law enforcement has always been antagonistic towards me.

Anonymous

^

Anonymous

THIS.

I've never ever had a positive experience with them, nor ever felt like they were "on my side"

^

Anonymous

2:44 PM

^^ THIS.

I speak for how the judiciary system is built

It's built on absolute dogshit

in theory it works

Anonymous

Even if they aren't total cunts, they are still at the very least always passive aggressive.

in practice...

2:44 PM

In theory also communism works

The problem is, police essentially act as if they were above the law

Anonymous

Well, "we are the law".

I also think it's best not to leave data to attract unwanted attention from LE, because even when you totally innocent, they often are a huge pain in the ass

They treat regular "civilians" as someone lesser, just to overcome their huge fucking ego

Anonymous

When you are totally innocent they refuse to accept that "you beat them" and they come back and find anything to use against you so they can get their win.

But the law say they are allowed to be a pain in the ass

2:46 PM

And I feel bad for all the police officers who aren't absolute fucking cunts to everyone around them

Anonymous

^ very few of those exist but yeah

But just listen to them speaking anonymously about corruption

It's horrifying

How fucking corrupt every single police force in the world is - how they're trained to systematically cover up misdemeanor by other policemen

Because, what the fuck are you going to do when a policeman harasses you? Call the police?

I can only agree on the general corruption of LE. But in the case of Sky, I don't think corruption is involved in the FBI's behavior.

Anonymous

The police alone make me feel very unsafe. When you throw in the governments of this world I genuinely feel like I am trapped in a prison but with more time in the yard.

They know you can't do shit, and that's exactly how they act.

2:49 PM

@MechMK1 Call a lawyer.

Anonymous

I do not feel safe outside. I do not feel safe in my home.

Anonymous

I do not feel safe on the internet.

@A.Hersean You word against theirs - and they're always at least two

Anonymous

A lot of this because of the police, purely because of them.

And if in doubt, the court will always believe the police, always.

2:49 PM

@MechMK1 Yeah...

God, I need to find this video

It could be worse. We could live in Japan.

Anonymous

The militarization of the police does not help with the safety, either.

Where a police officer dropped a pack of weed under the driver's door of a car he stopped and searched, then claimed he saw him drop it out of the car

Unfortunately, the driver had a camera recording him

Anonymous

The militarization is happening everywhere.

Anonymous

2:50 PM

Tell me why the police need rifles.

Let me be 100% clear: A man recorded a video of a police officer planting fake evidence!

Anonymous

or grenade launchers.

And nothing happened.

Literally nothing.

Anonymous

^ very common here...

Anonymous

(and everywhere)

Anonymous

2:51 PM

Complaints just disappear

Anonymous

into the ether...

Anonymous

as does bodycam footage...

You have lots of videos of police murdering (usualy black) people in the US without consequences.

Absolute Mad Lads - The North Hollywood Shootout

@JsupportsPalestine the hollywood shootout

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@A.Hersean Murder? Or kill?

Those are not the same things

Murder requires premediation

And in all honesty, look at videos of people drawing guns on the police. It's justified in that case.

@MechMK1 how long in advance ?

2:52 PM

@A.Hersean I don't know, I'm not a lawyer.

Actually, let me ask on Law

Is shooting in the back a guy slowly going out of his car, not showing any sign of aggression a kill or a murder?

hard to say

Again, I'm not a lawyer

Don't get me wrong, I've seen enough bodycam footage of police killing people for literally no reason

The police in the US are so fucking triggerhappy, holy shit

In France both would be "voluntary homicide".

No distinction

Anonymous

What in the world does that even mean?

the distinction would be kill by accident, like in a road accident

AKA "involuntary homicide"

2:57 PM

Understandable

Anonymous

Well, gotta go. Much to do. Take care :)

Take care!

Anonymous

Tell forest i said, thanks and bye lul :D

And have fun