The DMZ

ThoriumBR

00:44

no... it's my provider... that's why I have 2 providers

when one goes this way, I switch to the other network

I am planning on wiring both to a RasPi, the RasPi to the AP, and let the RasPi switch providers when the traffic is too low...

forest

01:03

@ThoriumBR There's actually a really neat function that OpenBSD has which allows splitting traffic. I think they call it a "trunk" or something? But it would work very well for this.

ThoriumBR

OpenBSD would be amazing for this.

forest

But it doesn't need to switch providers. It can use both of them at once (assuming you have an endpoint to merge the traffic, like that server of yours running the SSH tunnel).

Yeah this is perfect for it. I think modern versions of OpenBSD got rid of their giant lock in the networking code in the kernel, so networking finally scales with number of CPU cores.

ThoriumBR

I used something on ubuntu a couple years ago when I got to hotels and the bandwidth was limited to 256kbps unless you paid... so I created A LOT of aliases on my wifi card and bunched them all on a big fat pipe

I just don't remember what I used

as the traffic were tied to mac address, it looked like I had a dozen computers with me

forest

Hah

I've done that kind of thing before, but usually by knocking other people off the network and copying their MAC address (MACs as credentials is really stupid).

ThoriumBR

mac as credential is really stupid

maybe most of the users used windows, and changing mac wasn't that common on win xp back then

but for me, it was just a script away... and my script created playstations, macbooks, xboxes, surveillance cameras... if anyone looked at the logs, it would be interesting

forest

01:11

There's a utility for that now, macchanger.

And it too can create some bizarre MACs. :P

ThoriumBR

this was 2007, maybe 2008... man, so long ago?

forest

People still tend to use MAC addresses for authentication.

Knock them off and take their MAC and you'll usually get the Wi-Fi they paid for.

Of course, you need to wait until they're not using the network or they'll just try to reconnect (knocking you off).

Journeyman Geek

01:31

@ThoriumBR tbh - an RPI's not a good tool for the job

forest

Yeah I'd use a cheap 1U server or something like that. For 400mbps, nothing less.

Journeyman Geek

I've not really stress tested it but orangepi.org/OrangePiR1 runs a varient of my current DIY firewall/'router' stack

ThoriumBR

I was thinkiing I had one handy, but I don't... I have a cubietruck that isn't even close to updated, and 2 carambola

Journeyman Geek

@forest chinese industrial PCs!

2 ports minimum, fanless, and they clearly advertise what NICs they use

ThoriumBR

and a chumby hacker board... and they are all woefully underpowered for today's needs

an used cisco router would be amazing

Journeyman Geek

01:35

hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h2plus is kinda something I am considering

forest

@JourneymanGeek Yeah but those won't necessarily run OpenBSD.

Journeyman Geek

@forest they're x86

forest

The ISA is certainly not the issue. It's more about hardware drivers.

Journeyman Geek

arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/09/… I'm running something like the homebrew 2.0 with a 'simpler' stack of software to manage

@forest hence the fact that they clearly mention what NICs they use

forest

Oh do they? I just know I've had bad experience with Chinese PCs in terms of driver compatibility.

ThoriumBR

01:38

https://www.8devices.com/products/carambola I have this one
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10106 and this one as well

but they are old, very old

Journeyman Geek

@forest Its literally literally whatever old hardware they could surplus slapped together :D

@ThoriumBR Check for armbian compatibility :D

ThoriumBR

my cubietruck runs armbian

forest

hah

Journeyman Geek

lookd like openwrt works too

ThoriumBR

it took SO MUCH EFFORT to make it run videos in a good framerate that I won't let it upgrade...

Journeyman Geek

01:41

@forest I can't think of any 'essential' drivers that would give problems

ThoriumBR

I don't have the documentation, the armbian she runs don't have mirrors left, I cannot install wireshark on it because the kernel headers package isn't available, so it just sits bellow the TV playing youtube-downloaded cartoons for my kids

that setup is a mess, but it works for its purpose

now I am thinking on resurrecting the chumby hacker board and the carambola...

Journeyman Geek

@ThoriumBR the carambola looks better :D

2 ports

ThoriumBR

that chumby was plugged to a hdd and was my torrent downloader a decade ago

forest

@JourneymanGeek I guess if you're just connected over SSH and only need the NIC it should work.

Journeyman Geek

@forest .... what else do you need?

forest

01:43

I was thinking drivers for mass storage.

Journeyman Geek

anyway FWIW - the one I am using as a router now has I211 and AR9287 (PCI-E) at the moment

forest

But for a simple router it should be just fine.

Journeyman Geek

@forest .... mass storage?

forest

Mass storage devices. I.e. anything from MMC to USB to SATA hard drives.

Journeyman Geek

Yeah, its a simple router :D

@forest that's generally the least of my worries

I believe these are old enough to be M-Sata

ThoriumBR

01:44

@JourneymanGeek I have the naked board, so you have to solder the ethernet port yourself

for me that's a challenge

Journeyman Geek

@ThoriumBR ._.

forest

oh wow that's old

Better than PATA at least.

ThoriumBR

I don't have a steady hand, my soldering iron have the habit of lifting traces off boards, and usually I end up wrapping the wire around the pins and hoping for the best

forest

(Actually, I still use a system with an mSATA SSD).

Journeyman Geek

@forest lower cost boxen - I think they start at about 150 USD for the J1800/1900 versions

forest

01:45

huh

@ThoriumBR Then you need a soldering iron that supports temperature control.

Journeyman Geek

older generation chips in you're going for the better ones

forest

That's the best way to protect existing traces.

@JourneymanGeek Even old single-core AMD processors can be fine. :p

ThoriumBR

I have one! It have 2 settings: so low you can barely warm your hands, and copper-melting hot...

Journeyman Geek

@forest I've seen E150s ...

I think my router's haswell

been running it... uh, 2 years?

ThoriumBR

but seriously, hardware side is tough for me... I am not that well coordinated and usually break things trying to fix them... software side is easier... broke? reinstall and it's done

forest

01:48

I still run Sandy Bridge for half my computers.

Although I did use a server with an old AMD Athelon in the recent past.

Journeyman Geek

October 2018

damn, where has the time gone

still, 2 generations old at the time

forest

Newer CPUs are often more buggy and less secure, so...

(Of course, older CPUs are often the same)

I think there's a sweet spot from Sandy/Ivy Bridge to Haswell/Broadwell.

Journeyman Geek

@forest mainly wanted something with lots of ports, low cost and running x86 :D

Having a router that never goes EOL was a bonus (main issue was my old asus was overheating whenever I did backups 0_0)

I don't like arm SOCs ._.

forest

Quality of ARM SoCs varies madly.

Journeyman Geek

Well - and there's a false sense of economy when you're spending 35 dollars on a board, then need storage, power, case....

forest

01:54

The really low-end SoCs tend to come with their own case, power, etc. Raspi-like stuff.

Journeyman Geek

+ you're stuck with whatever patch level/OS the board dev has

forest

Unless it has good drivers, then it's pretty easy to keep them up to date.

Journeyman Geek

the OPI's stock 'server' OS is ubuntu 15.04 LXDE stripped down then upgraded poorly

forest

Since that requires only minimal kernel dev experience.

ThoriumBR

@forest what was that question about acoustic cryptanalysis on someone typing on the keyboard and using an audio codec to extract data over a phone call?

Journeyman Geek

01:56

X86 means I can grab the default x86(_64?) OS and just install it

ThoriumBR

I don't understand what part of that is crypto... it's information leakage, sure, but why crypto?

forest

@ThoriumBR I'm not actually sure why that term is used, but that's the one term I've found which seems to be common.

ThoriumBR

intriguing...

forest

Example:

3

A: Targeted acoustic keylogging attack prevention

In my opinion acoustic cryptanalysis is more of a proof of concept then to be used in real applications. What is possible to do? A few years ago guys from MIT (if I am not wrong) were able to log every keys on a mechanical keyboard using an Android/IOS phone application and just by placing tha...

Maybe I'll change it to "acoustic side-channel attack".

ThoriumBR

it's not even side channel, it's acoustic eavesdropping

like listening to someone keying morse code

forest

02:02

It's certainly a side-channel, since audio is not the channel the information is meant to be on.

ThoriumBR

but instead of dots and dashes you have small acoustic anomalies on every key

forest

It's a side-channel in the same way that a timing attack is a side-channel.

ThoriumBR

thinking like this you're right

it's really a side channel

forest

A side-channel attack is just the computational analogy of a tell in poker games, since that channel (facial expressions, behavior, etc.) is not how they intend to send information about their hand.

Journeyman Geek

@forest Probably the israelis - there's one particular researcher who specialises in wierd attacks like that

forest

02:04

Yeah one of the papers I read was from Israel.

Journeyman Geek

._.

github.com/shoyo/acoustic-keylogger

first google hit

forest

> t-SNE clusters formed by keystroke sounds generated by a VP3 mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches

Oh now that's just cheating!

ThoriumBR

> extremely accurate results (96% chars recovered from 10 minute sound recording) even without labeled training data

that's troubling...

Journeyman Geek

lol

@forest least it ain't a model M

though

I have a silent cherry blues here... used it so much the switches work but are worn down into silence...

forest

@ThoriumBR Oh it gets worse. They're intentionally crippling themselves by using audio. EM side-channels can be done from much farther away, and with much higher accuracy, on the keyboard's microcontroller during its matrix scan. The studies showed that it works both on PS/2 and USB keyboards and cannot be defeated by EM "noise", even if it's in a room of a hundred other keyboards.

Journeyman Geek

02:07

@forest Its 'unsexy' + presumably something they'd think of blocking.

ThoriumBR

World War is when an Austrian takes over Germany and you, an Indian, is sent by the British to Singapore to fight the Japanese.

forest

@JourneymanGeek EMSEC certified hardware blocks it.

Example:

4

A: Keyboards immune to signal monitoring?

I'm a bit surprised none of the other posts provide a definitive answer to such an objective question. Keyboards certified for USA NSTISSAM / NATO SDIP-27 (EMSEC standards that specify, among other things, appropriate electromagnetic radiation shielding against RFI/EMI) absolutely exist. Take for...

Journeyman Geek

@forest hence the desire for 'exotic' methods to get data?

ThoriumBR

better wrap my entire computer on tin foil...

Journeyman Geek

@forest link to the keyboard is broken by the way

ThoriumBR

02:09

now that I am going to a coworking space...

forest

Well, and using a cell phone to steal keys via a computer's capacitor hum is a lot easier since cell phones have microphones, but very rarely ultra-high bandwidth SDRs.

@JourneymanGeek Yeah I know. I'm too lazy to find an alternative but it's on my todo list.

ThoriumBR

@JourneymanGeek try this one: apitech.com/products/secure-systems-information-assurance/…

forest

@ThoriumBR There are ways to protect against EMSEC threats, but they generally boil down to data diodes, red/black separation, optical isolation (or at least very highly attenuating filters for Ethernet and the like), and TEMPEST-certified computer cases, wires, screens, and keyboards.

Alternatively, maintain a secure perimeter of 100m or so, but that's not always practical.

Journeyman Geek

@forest definately not in a co-working space lol

forest

Easy solution: Don't do sensitive stuff in that situation. :P

Journeyman Geek

02:12

then again, if you had that advanced an adverser maybe not work in a co-working space?

forest

^ that too

Journeyman Geek

The most I need to worry about with my keyboards should be them wearing out

forest

Although many people don't realize that they do have an advanced adversary after them, depending on what sector they work in. Something as benign as epoxy research is actually a good way to get some big threat actors after you.

ThoriumBR

@JourneymanGeek you forgot people here have a keyboard fetish...

Journeyman Geek

@ThoriumBR looks and parts, not people trying to haxxxxx

I've been running the same razer keyboard for a decade

(actually have to re-install the keycaps, I gave them a clean :D )

ThoriumBR

02:14

and I have the stock thinkpad keyboard... only changed the thinkpad model: t41, t43, t61, t410, t430, t460, and now t490

but I typed on thinkpad keyboards for more than a decade

Journeyman Geek

up to 61 would be the 'classic' thinkpad keyboard lol

I need a full size keyboard ._.

ThoriumBR

yep, the t61 had the best one... it was a very nice machine

forest

>not using a single button via GPIO and entering keys in morse code

pleb

ThoriumBR

now my t430 is my gaming device

forest

07:17

(Random) Interesting information on attacking 8051 chips: cl.cam.ac.uk/~sps32/mcu_lock.html

> The article is left in its original state as it was back in 2001. Since that time 10 years have passed. During that time I tested various microcontrollers, smartcards, secure memory chips and FPGAs. Most of them were found vulnerable to all sorts of the attacks listed in the above PhD thesis.

> Those chips were from the following manufacturers: Motorola, Microchip, Atmel, Hitachi, NEC, Xilinx, Lattice, Actel, Cypress, Zilog, Dallas, Mitsubishi, Freescale, Renesas, Altera, Texas Instruments, Intel, Scenix, Fujitsu, STMicroelectronics, Winbond, Holtek, Philips, Temic, Cygnal, Toshiba, Samsung, Ubicom, Siemens, Macronix, Elan, National Semiconductor, NXP.

> The list of chips vulnerable to low-cost attacks is very long, here are just some of them:
> 68HC05xx, 68HC705xx, 68HC08xx, 68HC908xx, 68HC11xx, PIC12Cxx, PIC12Fxx, PIC16Cxx, PIC16Fxx, PIC17Cxx, PIC18Cxx, PIC18Fxx, PIC24HJxx, dsPIC30Fxx, dsPIC33FJxx, AT89Cxx, AT89Sxx, AT90Sxx, ATtinyxx, ATmegaxx, H8/3xx, D78xx, D78Fxx, XC95xx, XCR3xx, XC2Cxx, A500Kxx, A3Pxx, CY7C6xx, Z867xx, Z86Exx, DS2432, M306xx, EPM3xx, EPM7xx, EPM9xx, MSP430Fxx, N87Cxx, SXxx, ST62Txx, ST72Fxx, W921Exx, HT48Rxx, P87LPCxx, T89Cxx, SAB-Cxx, MX10xx, EL78Pxx, LPC3xx

djsmiley2kStaysInside

08:26

/me looks in

Anonymous

09:13

Morning.

Anonymous

@ThoriumBR Thank you :D

Anonymous

@forest Offensive Security Exploit Developer :)

forest

nice :p

Learning lots of binary exploitation stuff then?

Anonymous

@forest Oh yeah for sure, they do have some applications. But like you say, those companies advertising the VPNs are doing it under the guise of privacy and that is just morally wrong since they absolutely know that it is total bullshit.

forest

yeah

Anonymous

09:15

Yeah. It was really tough. One thing I never knew before: in large applications, ASLR seems kinda'... Worthless.

forest

Or they don't know it's bullshit and they're just idiots.

Anonymous

Well, not worthless but. a lot easier to bypass than I previously thought.

forest

@J-- ASLR is sometimes good against "scriptless" exploits (e.g. exploits in parsers and the like).

Yeah infoleaks are all over for ASLR.

Anonymous

Yeah for some reason I always had this idea that ASLR was like, pretty good, but its actually not that great...

Anonymous

I mean, it's defense in depth of course.

Anonymous

09:16

Write better code is the solution.

Anonymous

But I just didn't realise it was so trivial to bypass in some cases :D

Anonymous

Super cool though

forest

It's like NX. Has a purpose, but has defeats.

You get into ROP and the like yet?

Anonymous

Yeah, used ROP for bypassing DEP.

forest

I hate when it's called DEP. It's NX dammit!

Anonymous

09:17

I found that section really challenging. I for sure need to review that a couple more times.

Anonymous

Very assembly heavy...

Anonymous

Yeah, NX :D

forest

DEP is a windozism

(Or XP on ARM)

@J-- Just wait until you get into BROP/SROP/JOP/LOP/COOP...

And the other more obscure control flow hijacks.

Anonymous

I don't think those are in this material but, I am trying to collate a list of areas to study once I finish this so I'll write those down :D

MechMK1

NX = No-Execute?

forest

09:19

Yep. And XP = eXecute Prevention.

And DEP = Data Execution Prevention.

MechMK1

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up

forest

They're basically the opposite of READ_IMPLIES_EXEC personality flag.

nobody

@J-- Are you planning to take OSEE after this?

MechMK1

Would you forgive me if I told you I don't know what that means?

forest

It was one of the first security features for CPUs that userspace could take advantage of. Nowadays we have plenty more, like SMEP/SMAP (PXN/PAN on ARM, which are superior to x86's implementations), MPX, AES-NI, RDRAND, and that new CFI thing Intel came out with.

MechMK1

09:21

All I know is that memory shouldn't be writable and executable

Anonymous

@nobody Yes I am.

forest

@MechMK1 man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/personality.2.html

Anonymous

Probably not till next year though, nobody.

forest

Which is how you turn off NX, basically.

Anonymous

TECHNICALLY I could do it this year.

Anonymous

09:22

But I am going to do it next year instead.

forest

@MechMK1 There are three main control bits that can exist in the page table for memory access: read, write, and execute. All the bits can in theory be toggled independently, but on systems without NX, the read bit also allows execution. Unfortunately right now there's no easy way to prevent execute from implying read (although I think Intel MPK might be able to do that, and EPT for VT-x can probably be used in a hacky way to accomplish that). But there'll probably be lots of side-channels.

nobody

Well good luck. I'm probably gonna start thinking of binex when you are already an exploitations expert. (And that's only if I ever do start it)

Anonymous

lul.

Anonymous

Last I heard there are less than 500 people in the world who have passed OSEE, not sure how true that is.

forest

@nobody I still gotta work on it myself. I have too much theoretical knowledge and I can name drop all day but in the end, my practical red teaming binex skills are trash.

Anonymous

09:25

But I am going to finish this and then spend the next year trying to find bugs in random software, then I'll do the OSEE next year.

MechMK1

@forest Yeah, I was about to say it would make more sense if execute implied read

forest

OSEE is the really Windows-oriented one, right?

MechMK1

But I know so little about actual modern CPUs

I only have a basic understanding of them

forest

@MechMK1 It does, right now, although theoretically it doesn't need to be so.

nobody

OSEE and OSED are both I guess

Anonymous

09:27

It's the level above this.

Anonymous

@forest Yeah.

Anonymous

In-person course only.

forest

gross

MechMK1

So you could say if execute is set, the read bit could have a different meaning

nobody

@J-- That explains the low number of people passing it

Less people will go, so less people will pass

Anonymous

09:27

NX/ASLR Bypass – Using different techniques to bypass Data Execution
Prevention and Address Space Layout Randomization protection mechanisms on modern operating systems.
Function pointer overwrites – Overwriting a function pointer in order to get code execution.
Precision Heap Spraying – Spraying the heap for reliable code execution.
Disarming EMET Mitigations to gain reliable code execution
64 and 32 Bit Windows Kernel Driver Exploitation
Kernel Pool Exploitation

MechMK1

I don't understand how I am so lucky in FGO

forest

@MechMK1 It's a bitmask.

Anonymous

That's the OSEE breakdown.

Anonymous

@nobody Yeah, exactly. It is also VERY expensive.

forest

That's odd. fptr overwrites are trivial, but good heap spraying is actually hard.

MechMK1

09:28

I roll once in a blue moon and always get a 4* servant

Or 5*

Anonymous

I'm assuming that fptr overwrites are in there because they aren't in the OSED.

MechMK1

I feel like the longer you don't spend money on the game, the better your rolls become

Anonymous

I really need to start learning more C as well.

forest

Get K&R 2nd ed.

Best C book there is.

Anonymous

Will order it now.

MechMK1

09:31

As in, regular C? Or weird, arcane C?

forest

Do you know the basics in C, like the difference between passing a struct as a pointer vs directly?

MechMK1

I find it so funny that that's something you can do :D

Anonymous

@forest It's been a while since I actually did anything with C but yeah, I could pick those things back up easily.

forest

@MechMK1 2nd Ed is for regular C. First Ed is for that creepy pre-ANSI black magic where function declarations are cancer.

MechMK1

Make a chain of functions 200 functions deep, each returning a 1MB struct

Which will reserve 200 MB on the stack

Or at least, in cdecl it does

forest

09:33

foo(a, b)
int a;
char b;
{
    printf("%d %c\n", a, b);
}

Anonymous

Also @forest I think the most interesting thing in the OSEE for me would be the Kernel Driver exploitation.

forest

Or however it was.

Anonymous

I really like the sound of that.

MechMK1

Fucking what

Anonymous

That's gonna be fun. But I'm ages away from that lol.

forest

09:33

@J-- Well that won't help you much with Linux since Windows is so much different.

@MechMK1 Yup, that's the old K&R style.

Anonymous

Oh I know.

forest

From the early 80s.

Anonymous

But its interesting.

MechMK1

God, what the fuck is with FGO? It's such an emotional whiplash

forest

wtf is fgo

MechMK1

09:35

Fate/Grand Order

forest

Is that a VN?

MechMK1

Mobile game

forest

gross

Anonymous

My plan once I finish this course is to spend some time trying to find some cool bugs in the wild, learn more C and then probably start figuring out how I convert this knowledge to Linux :D

forest

Do you prefer RE or code review to find bugs?

Anonymous

09:36

Then do OSEE, next year. Then I don't know.

Anonymous

Exist? Retire?

Anonymous

Die?#

Anonymous

@forest Umm. Honestly, I like both. Depends on the mood I'm in :D

forest

success == true ? retire : die

Anonymous

:D

forest

09:37

Gotta clean up my ternary operators.

Anonymous

I'll be honest, I am probably going to take a year off when I pass OSEE...

MechMK1

15 minutes ago: Haha, cute idol girl is dancing around
10 minutes ago: "My whole body is made of poison. I've never been able to touch another human being without killing them. To be able to sit here, holding your hand - it may seem mundane to you, but not to me"
5 minutes ago: "Sanzang is being an idiot again :D"
Now: "Do you believe that King Arthur would allow this? For you to slaughter innocent women and children, for what? If this is who our king has become, then I shall no longer consider myself a knight of the round table. And you, Sir Tristan, as much as it pains me, I no longer con…

Anonymous

A year from the computer would be very healthy for me.

forest

It could be, but it might result in some lost skills.

Anonymous

That's okay :D

Anonymous

09:38

Gonna go travel with my girlfriend.

forest

My suggestion: Learn Linux in that time by installing and making Gentoo your main system.

Anonymous

Assuming she doesn't leave me :DDD

forest

It's easier than OSEE, I'd bet.

MechMK1

Are we unironically memeing "install gentoo" now?

forest

I unironically install Gentoo.

It's actually a great OS. Extremely customizable.

Anonymous

09:39

Knowing me, when I say "take a year off" what I actually mean is that I'll take a laptop with me to every single destination I visit and hack from there...

forest

Great for dev work.

MechMK1

Perhaps, yeah

Anonymous

But we'll see, I guess :D

Anonymous

Today I need to get all of my notes in order ready for the pwning to commence.

Anonymous

Oh by the way @forest I might be wrong but I think this is a binex resource for linux - security.cs.rpi.edu/courses/binexp-spring2015

Anonymous

09:46

Don't quite remember

forest

Doesn't even load for me. Probably blocks Tor.

Anonymous

Let me try.

Anonymous

Doesn't load for me either...

Anonymous

Off the top of my head; it is an introduction to binex on Linux so. Whenever it starts working, might be useful if you wanted to do practical stuff :D

MechMK1

You know, one writing trope that annoys me is when the author tells you that something is sad, instead of making you feel sad.

"Oh sorry, we didn't have time to really establish and develop that character, but we want the emotional payoff, so just imagine his sacrifice was very heartbreaking"

Anonymous

09:52

Yeah like when they say the girl is stuck instead of just showing you in certain videos, I feel that... :upside_down:

Anonymous

I prefer imagination too.

MechMK1

Sorry, I only read hentai

Anonymous

lul

MechMK1

:D

djsmiley2kStaysInside

@MechMK1 "Show, don't tell"

MechMK1

09:53

Okay, just a second

djsmiley2kStaysInside

it's a common writing ... thing

technique? trope? I dunno, but I've been told about it many times

I don't mean you need to show us

I mean the author does ;)

i.e. don't write "He was sad". Write "He felt like he was crushed by the screams of the lost souls"

MechMK1

Honestly, more detail doesn't equate to better writing

Anonymous

Couldn't you just say that a writer who tells you the emotions in black and white is just... A bad writer?

MechMK1

What matters is that a character's motivations become clear to me

forest

The rage of a thousand white hot blinding suns of hateful fury

MechMK1

09:55

Establish how much someone cares about protecting a village. Then show his village being destroyed.

djsmiley2kStaysInside

exactly

Anonymous

I'll be honest, all I can think of when anyone talks about writing these days is Manos.

djsmiley2kStaysInside

don't tell you he's sad because the village was destroyed

Anonymous

I don't know why. But its just in my head on a loop.

MechMK1

@djsmiley2kStaysInside 273059

djsmiley2kStaysInside

09:55

it should be obvious

forest

I'm glad I've corrupted you @J-- :D

Anonymous

Doesn't help I keep watching it...

Anonymous

I just see that shitty fucking costume everywhere.

Anonymous

@forest Yes :D

forest

@MechMK1 That's why I never watched that stupid new show with the demons and that half demon girl with the gag in her mouth. I don't even remember what it was called but they did that shit in ep 1.

Anonymous

09:56

If someone says "oh this show is bad" - I think of Manos. "Oh this writing is bad" - Manos.

MechMK1

@J-- 🖐🏻🖐🏻

Anonymous

I can't help it. It's like a fucking tick at this point.

MechMK1

@forest I heard it was really good

But I haven't watched it myself

forest

It wasn't. I watched like 2 eps. Couldn't watch more.

MechMK1

Well, it is what it is :D

forest

09:57

It started out with this dumb kid returning home and oh noes his family is ded and he gotta go train like Rocky to defeat teh demonzzz. I mean who has a scene of someone bawwwing his eyes out when we as viewers never got attached to his family?

MechMK1

If I'd write a manga it'd probably be really depressing

@forest I remember one thing that fucked me up was when I watched SAO

God, it was so bad

Anonymous

I liked SAO :(

forest

I never saw it.

Anonymous

Its the only anime I've watched, I thought it was good.

forest

I've heard mixed things about it. Some like it, some think it's overrated.

MechMK1

09:59

Okay, it wasn't awful

Anonymous

But I am routinely told by anime fans it is garbage...

forest

I mean, there are worse animes out there @J--

For a first anime, it's not a bad one.

MechMK1

@J-- Let's describe it as "a lot of wasted potential"

forest

Now, Naruto on the other hand, that would be bad.

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