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00:38
I woke up and my answer had 56 votes O_O damn you rep cap
 
7 hours later…
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07:32
oh Rory is the guy from youtube
wait a sec that's the same as the blue guy!
why did you change picture? :)
@xce there are 2 rory's
McCune and Alsop
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ohh
this is pretty confusing
because they're both in scotland
<- bad at names
what's ethical hacking?
07:51
@xce When you are allowed to hack a system
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oh like a test lab
if you have a contract with a customer that requests you to test his systems to see if they are secure
so basically you try to hack into them
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I've seen people post on forums "hey guys pentest my website here is the URL"
well in practice that doesn't really count
you actually need legal boundaries
so a contract at minimum :)
where it's clearly defined what you will be doing during what period
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08:09
I was reading about a story maybe it was on here or youtube, where they tried everything to get into someones computer network and the only thing that worked was people picking up USBsticks off the floor and carrying them in
USB things had malware on them of course
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08:54
is privacy relevant to security?
@xce Protecting privacy is one of the major concerns for security, so yes.
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are there any good websites or free PDF books about it?
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09:32
is there no faster way to find the salt of an md5 hash than brute force? (given the source text, a segment of the hash and the way the salt is mixed in)
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hmm
it depends on the encryption.. sometimes there are checksums.. other times you know statistics
yeah it's a fairly basic question and a little vague, but not terrible
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10:47
* How does a computer check if a "guessed" key is the correct key?
* How does the alogirthm know it has found the correct key?
I don't understand why are these two different questions?
11:07
ffs can't find my carkey ><
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google might know
that was an april fools joke at some point Ithink
11:50
mmm would it be possible to write a rootkit in python?
12:08
@LucasKauffman Yes
a rootkit is "just" some software which is executed by the attacker who just got extraordinary access rights, just to make them permanent.
cool, gonna give it a shot
The rootkit therefore just need to write files, and Python can do that.
I'll extend my ircbot, or embed my ircbot into a rootkit script
For that matter, a rootkit can be written in /bin/sh language.
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what is the ircbot?
12:10
@xce a piece of software that connects to an IRC channel
in that way I can control it remotely
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wouldn't that be a security problem to have it root then?
that's the point :p
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lol
well I just want to do it to get a better grasp on the concept
but in a real sitaution I'd use it to give me root access to a compromised machine and send it commands to do stuff
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I'd not heard of rootkits before and this is pretty scary, could it hide things from ps and top? I always check there when I'm being paranoid about viruses
12:13
@LucasKauffman Did i hear python? fan mode on
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that must be a bug in the OS, if someone can create a rootkit.
@xce not really, you just need an exploit so you can install the kit
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even though wikipedia lists ones that are purposeful to the user
@xce If you want to hide from ps and top, then you must somehow patch the kernel (the live kernel, and/or the kernel image on disk, for the next reboot).
If you are root, you can patch the kernel at will.
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I see
12:15
Sweet, just unlocked the Edit privilege.
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Terry did you use a root kit :P
so you could potentially have a legitimate kernel module that does it.. and maybe trick a user into installing (like when they do sudo make install) or use an exploit
Sweet ! xrdp supports session deconnect/reconnect
In other news, i just passed @RoryAlsop on the monthly reputation charts.
@TerryChia ah well, it is his wedding anniversary today, so I guess he may be taking a break (well I'd hope he is anyway!)
@RoryMcCune I remember him saying his going camping or something like that.
12:26
@TerryChia ahh could be...
Sounds like fun. Pawn the kids off on somebody, take a weekend camping trip with the ole lady.
he wanted to go somewhere where the only electronic device was his blackberry
heh if I worked for the Big4 I'd want to go somewhere where any electronic device worked apart from my Blackberry!
Which is funny, because, unless he has changed mobiles, he has a Desire.
IIRC work blackberry home Desire..
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12:29
> If a CA became known as untrustworthy then they would likely be removed from browsers default installation lists, but I'm not aware of any occurances where that's happened.
@ScottPack check the backlog!
@LucasKauffman TOO LAZY!!
he works for one of the big four? which one?
@LucasKauffman PWC
Which are the big four?
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12:30
@RoryMcCune, I think there are a few instances of this in Mozilla
ah cool I work for Ernst and Young :D
@TerryChia PWC, Ernst & young, KPMG, Deloittes
@RoryMcCune That rather sucks to have to deal with. Apparently, before I started here, the operation provided a cell phone and pager to all on-call employees, but they were strictly business only. After that turned out to be a management nightmare they moved to employee provided phones with reimbursement.
@TerryChia PWC, Ernst and Young, Deloittes and KPMG
@LucasKauffman yeah me too :)
12:31
@LucasKauffman Sniped. lol.
@RoryMcCune IT Risk Assurance?
@LucasKauffman was called ISAAS back in the day
I knew it! I'm surrounded by Auditors!
@RoryMcCune well I havent started yet, starting 13th of august as a pentester :p
I wonder where I'll work when i graduate.
12:32
@ScottPack Oy! I'm a tester not an auditor (although it's amazing how many people think I am)
so basically we are colleagues :o?
@RoryMcCune When you work for a company that is known almost exclusively for their auditing services role....
@LucasKauffman nice :)
To be fair, I was attempting a Spaceballs quote, but I think it got lost in translation.
@ScottPack yeah I know, one of the reasons I left, not matter how many times you say you're a security person, EY==Auditor to some.
12:34
Indeed. Honestly, though, you're the first person I've knowingly met who worked for either Deloites or EY that wasn't an auditor.
@ScottPack my whole team aren't auditors
we do consulting
@ScottPack Yeah the individual countries sometimes have groups of security people, which tend to come and go....
and there is one team that does PCI auditing as well
@RoryMcCune what do you mean, come and go?
@LucasKauffman well when I was at EY ( a while back) they built up a decent sized testing team, but over the couple of years after that AFAIK they've all left....
@RoryMcCune why did they leave?
12:38
@LucasKauffman purely supposition on my part but I think that some of the partners at the Big4 don't get pen testing and security and when I was there there was a push to make more senior people do sales, which doesn't go down well with a lot of techy types (and was a big bit of why I left)
@LucasKauffman also when I was there if testing was quiet, the testers got assigned to audit stuff sometimes, which didn't go too well :OP
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Maybe Verisign too
@RoryMcCune is auditing that boring?
What kind of firms are nice to work in as a pen tester?
That is the job i'm interested in.
@LucasKauffman well sometimes it can be interesting, but I wasn't a fan. A lot of time there's a prescriptive methodology to follow and you're not allowed to stray from it. That starts to be a problem if you know the tech quite well and it turns out the methodology isn't perfect....
@TerryChia what country?
@RoryMcCune Singapore. I don't need the specific companies though, just what type of firms are more interesting- audit firms, banks?
12:45
@RoryMcCune This also applies in non-auditing works, when you have to use a restrictive set of technologies.
E.g. here, they have rules which say that if you develop something, it MUST be in VB.NET.
@TerryChia ahh in that case I'd say work for a dedicated testing company. There you should be "the talent" ie you're bringing in the money, so they'll likely treat testing staff better :) (who me, cynical....)
@TerryChia for me working in industry has a problem where they want people to fit into their idea of progression, so delivery person --> senior delivery person --> manager. if you don't want to be a manager that can be a bummer...
I see. As a pen tester, do you get to focus on a specific area, web apps pen testing or network pen testing for example, or are you expected to be familiar with both?
@RoryMcCune that's what they told me too, but tbh I don't mind that idea at all, I've always liked managing and leading projects
@RoryMcCune btw how flexible were they for their security personel to attend conferences?
Theres a conference in Belgium in october and I'd like to attend it, problem is I don't know if I should as if I can go when I've only been working there for a month and a half
@TerryChia well I do a bit of everything to be honest, I'd like to specialise but it depends on the company (bigger = better chance of specialising) and the work they get
@LucasKauffman that'll likely be down to local management, you'd hope they'd want people to! Is that Brucon your thinking of? I'm going to that one (last week in September IIRC)
@RoryMcCune yea that's the one :D, I'll ask em when I start working, if you want we can meet up?
12:55
@LucasKauffman yeah cool plan :) I've not been to Brucon before, but it sounds like a good one..
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> At this point, the entire DNS system should be scrapped and start over from scratch.
is this realistic? could there really be something better?
I couldn't go last year, but all of my friends that went were positive about it
@ThomasPornin @ThomasPornin yeah I know what you mean, worked in some large corporates that were really restrictive about technology, made creating innovative solutions a real pain!
Anyone in here manage Macs? Thoughts on this? computerworld.com/s/article/9229784/…
@RoryMcCune to which one are you going? Training or Security? or both?
13:03
I personally find it quite irritating. Posted a question on Ask Different about it, which really didn't get an authoritative answer.
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Q: What is Apple's policy for supporting security updates on older versions of OS X?

IsziDoes Apple have a policy regarding how long they will continue to release and support security fixes for each OS X release? I've looked around the Internet, and found some forum posts that claim "only for the current, and most recent previous, versions" but none appear to have an official refere...

@LucasKauffman security. The training courses are nice but pretty expensive, and there's none of them I'm so focused on that I can justify the money this year...
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yes I'm not sure why they keep making new version of mac os
given the lack of information the best assumption would be they wont upgrade it anymore
Cool Georgia Weidman is coming too
@Iszi Macs are fine desktop systems, provided you have the money to stay up-to-date with the OS and hardware.
If you cannot afford to buy a new 2k+$ machine every three years or so, stay away from Apple.
The Poor is not Worthy of Apple's products.
As for servers, well, Macs just suck at it, I guess.
I very much prefer a DIY system for desktops. I love Mac notebooks though.
13:14
@TerryChia I have a Mac at home, in order to save time.
With a Mac, everything works right away, or not at all (if it does not work when you plug it, it will never work).
I do not miss the hours spent tracking the svn-beta-unfinished drivers for a Linux system to be able to support a given piece of hardware.
@ThomasPornin Yeah, that is true. But I got a person to do my DIY system for me. No time needed on my part.
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Do It Someone-Else
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I'm running a Windows 7 host OS on my system. I'm a bit of a gamer so a linux host OS is out of the question.
Great thing about Macs is that they just work though.
@TerryChia Ah yes, the most time-efficient sysadmin operations are those which are already done, immediately followed by those which are done by someone else.
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Despite Intel's best effort. Apple still has the monopoly on ultrathins. I love(but can't afford) the new Retina Macbook.
13:19
Oh look, I'm getting close to 6k here. Wish there was some reason to be thrilled about it.
@Iszi You might soon get over Bear #2 (who has not done anything for the last four months, but is still getting the occasional rep)
@Iszi Yeah, I've never seen anything official in writing from Apple. The $CURVER-1 support plan has been espoused by Apple Certified Techs for aeons, though. It also seems to hold true.
I ended up upgrading my laptop to 10.7 on Friday as a result.
@ScottPack why 10.7 and not 10.8?
Because I typoed a 7 instead of an 8.
My Macbook Air is stuck at Snow Leopard :(
13:32
This, thankfully work owned, laptop is a first generation Unibody (with the hinged door to access the harddrive and battery). It's the oldest MacBook supported on 10.8. Hopefully 10.8 lasts longer than 10.7.
my last mac took me 4 days to get installed and after that I decided it wasn't worth since I had to buy a wifi dongle because my internal wifi card wasn't supported by any kext yet
I'm going to assume you were doing something unsupported, because that's not the Apple way.
@LucasKauffman What Scott said. Macs work great out of the box if you aren't doing any weird stuff on it.
yea was my MSI CX500
lol @ Hackintosh
13:38
Oh, so you were violating the OS license and installing it on unsupported hardware. Cool, cool.
@ScottPack at least I bought the disk
I think we may have stumbled upon your issues.
@ScottPack Keyword there is think
In other news, Hackers: 1 Microsoft: 0
it's still 0 - 0
@ScottPack must say I learned a lot by installing them over and over again
@ScottPack also I don't think I'm doing anything wrong by voiding the OS license, worst thing apple can do is blacklist my apple account
well in this lawsystem at least
I try to stay out of the way of license enforcement. I figure my job is done once I've snidely pointed out any potential issues.
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14:00
"I don't think I'm doing anything wrong by voiding the OS license" <-- voiding the OS license is what you've done wrong
whether you care or not is up to you. The biggest issue I see with it is that people are paying for a product that isn't what they want.
so your money is saying to apple "this is what I want" (unless you didn't pay.. I guess that it possible too) when your actions (which apple isn't aware of) says that it's not
it's similar with jailbreaking the iPod, everyone is telling apple they like devices you don't have root on.. but actually they don't
@xce I don't get the point of jailbreaking tbh. My iphone has not been jailbroken, and it is almost a year since i bought it.
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@TerryChia, As I understand it, it lets you use an extra appstore where apple isn't the authority
@xce Which opens up your phone to malware.
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Yeah that's true
(N.B. I don't have an iPhone)
It also lets you do things like tether at lower data plans.
14:13
@ScottPack Is that a ISP restriction? My data plan is 12gb/month, and I can tether.
12gb/month is the lowest in my country.
@TerryChia Yes, it is a cellular provider restriction.
@ScottPack yeah the lack of tethering without jailbreak is a pain. I got really lucky and snagged iTether in the one day before they pulled it, so now I have unlimited tethered data data for £5/month
For instance, in the US, AT&T disables tethering on your phone unless you're subscribed to one of the higher plans, like 2GB or something.
Ah i see. No such restrictions in my country, so i don't feel the need to jailbreak.
In my case, 200MB is the cheapest plan I can get on my Android phone. My wife called up to ask about enabling WiFi Hotspot on her phone, but they wouldn't turn it on unless she upgraded to the 2GB plan or higher.
I, however, am running a non-AT&T rom (also at the 200MB plan) which lets me turn it on at will.
14:18
The advantages of being tech-savvy eh.
I just make sure to be very careful about what I do with the tethering and what my usage is.
I would probably have to remortage my house to get a 12GB plan.
Different countries i guess. I do get better deals on phone plans as I am a student.
Yeah, the US is pretty well shafted by both cellular and Internet providers. I get a discount through work, but it's pretty minimal on both percentage and what it applies to.
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I wonder why we can't all just use the internet to phone each other?
I guess it's to do with phone bills
(they would cease to exist)
You mean like Skype?
14:25
I would think bandwidth is one issue. VoIP is a pretty heavy load.
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rather than skype I'd like a protocol that people can implement like how we have TCP and such, that way people don't have to use the skype black-box program or servers
seems safer to me
maybe bandwidth is stoping it from happening.. but don't people talk on online games like XBOX and stuff ?
and World of Warcraft
All the time. Xbox Live has VOIP built in, a lot of online gamers use TeamSpeak which is another VOIP solution.
@xce It is called SIP
The core problem is bootstrap: a VoIP protocol is useless until the people you want to talk with use the same protocol.
That's the great thing about standards, right? You have plenty to choose from.
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this looks interesting!
14:37
and you still need a rendez-vous server somewhere
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I should try phoning myself over the local network with it
Anyone got some VPS suggestions outside of the U.S. that have a great resource to value ratio?
They also need to accept $ or bitcoins..
@DigitalFire It has to be a VPS ?
In France, there are online.net and kimsufi.com
14:52
@ThomasPornin I need something that I have root so I can install things without restrictions. Been doing some projects that involve red5, unrealirc, ffmpeg,etc..
Both offer dedicated servers with unmetered bandwidth (no quota) at 15 euros per month
It is your machine (you choose the OS, you are root...)
(the 15 euros are without taxes, so this should amount to, say, 25$ per month)
There might be restrictions on international customers, though.
Yea, I was going to say... They don't seem to accept $$
AFAIK linode have datacenters in europe and would take dollars.. linode.com/tour not personally used them but heard reasonable things about them...
@RoryMcCune I've reviewed linode and they looked promising. I'm just holding off because I want to give myself some time to try to get the best deal. Mostly just want the most resource bang for my buck essentially.
15:13
I'm thinking that, while not exact duplicates, these questions should probably be merged - if they're left alive at all.
Unfortunately, we don't have "General Reference" as a close reason here. Though, for a question like this, I think it would be good to have.
0
Q: What is a Yubi key and how does it work?

Gabriel FairHow do Yubi keys work? Are there any alternatives?

Agree with the merge idea.
0
Q: Anonymous proxy over SSL

user1454263Can you name any anonymous proxy software that don't use VPN connections? Basically, I'm analyzing different encrypted traffic and now I need to analyse a simple anonymity proxy traffic. I'm analyzing from the client side (my own traffic). I need something like HotSpot Shield but that doesn't u...

Does this fall under product recommendation?
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what the heck is "anonymous proxy software"?
Software that protects your privacy by forwarding your request through an anonymous proxy.
The answer for that one question maxed my rep cap for 2 days. Cool.
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this says a lot of interesting things without any citations so I can't follow up the reasons :( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_proxy
15:29
@RoryAlsop In honou?r of your special day.
user image
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16:11
Joel Spolsky on July 31, 2012

You can’t fix what you can’t measure, so the first thing we did as a part of our Summer of Love campaign was try to measure friendliness in an objective and repeatable way. We gathered 7000 comments from Stack Overflow and submitted them to Mechanical Turk. For each comment, we asked 20 people to rate the comment as Friendly, Unfriendly, or “Neutral/Unclear.”

There are different ways of massaging the data, but I do want to give you a flavor for the kind of comments we’re talking about when we’re talking about unfriendly comments. Here is a snapshot of the com …

16:42
f 7000 comments submitted, 557 were rated as “friendly” by 75% of more of the reviewers.
this was for the commsroom really
Never heard of Mechanical Turk before. It looks quite interesting.
17:18
There used to, maybe still exists, a service that used them to transcribe business cards.
You would take a picture of the business card with your phone, submit it to the transcription service with their app, then you would receive back (in some length of time) a vcard.
I thought it was a crowd surfed Amazon product.
May be a part of MTurk.
So you, @Iszi, decide to go see what's on the work queueueueueueueue, take posession of it, then do the work.
You then receive some kind of payment.
Could be.
I saw a lot of tasks for voicemail transcriptions.
@ScottPack Yup. It seems much similar to field agent.
Yeah, this looks pretty familiar.
Only, without the "having to go anywhere" part.
17:24
Wow, some of those transcriptions pay pretty well by the hour
@ScottPack Makes me wonder if there's a catch... Is the guy speaking Yawnish or something?
heh
Work might not be as steady
So $20 to transcribe a 1 hour 11 minute file? Not too bad
Less than I make, but I might be willing to type for an hour to buy 18 beers.
@ScottPack Wait... One hour, eleven minutes? Is that what they call a voicemail?
17:45
> Voicemail Transcription A263172 (audio length: 2 hours 26 minutes 44 seconds)
That one pays $58
 
1 hour later…
18:48
Well, if you could get a steady stream of those (and don't have to rewind too often) then the pay works out to about $48k/year.
But... damn, a two-and-a-half-hour voicemail?
I've received plenty of voicemails that felt like 2.5 hours.
Did anyone else get the hakin9-magazine spam via email, too?
Asking you to write an article? I got one through linkedin.
Yes, I got that via plain email. The wording is very similar to the one of the deleted question.
By the way: I have never seen that many downvotes (seven) in the first hour after the question was created.
19:04
@HendrikBrummermann Eh? Sadly, I can't see through the 10k veil.
 
1 hour later…
20:06
@RoryAlsop Evenin'
Evening all. Just got settled with a glass of wine, looking out northwards past Skye
nice, what's the weather like up there?
Lovely. Wall to wall sun the entire trip up. Cloud over now and the forecast is wet:)
Just getting the kids to sleep and will sit round our fire for a bit.good to get away- have been supposed to be on leave for a week already and worked 39 hours last week.
definitely good to get away, that's a redic amount to be working on hols!
There is actually WiFi here, at pretty cheap rate if I can be bothered.
20:11
don't do it (or at least not for work e-mail :oP )
Our office is more of less finished now, got a Cisco ASA and 24-port switch delivered :)
should have it all in place next week, will be nice
@terry - was EY and now PwC, with a wee self employed stint in the middle. Also very much not an auditor
@Rorym cool. You'll need to give me the tour soon:)
@RoryAlsop yeah will show you around once we get it all sorted (don't think I'm allowed to have people over till we've tidied up the huge amount of mess!)
Going to check the review and mod queueueue and then drink till dark. Catch you later.
20:49
@RoryAlsop now what in god's name are you doing here? Just enjoy your holiday, sec.SE can go without you for a few days :p
@RoryAlsop security.stackexchange.com/questions/17932/… was closed as exact duplicate of security.stackexchange.com/questions/13570/…. However, @D.W. 's question says about resources accessible to "someone with limited programming experience". Maybe it doesn't take much difference but it as a result closed question is slightly more broad. So are those questions actually duplicates?
@AndreyBotalov ssst he's on holiday, go bother another admin!
Oh, hey, @RoryAlsop. Enjoy. :)
21:13
0
Q: ASA 5540 Enable Password Issue

AnonymousI have a Cisco ASA 5540 running the following Software/Manager version: Cisco Adaptive Security Appliance Software Version 8.2(2)17 Device Manager Version 6.3(2) I use ASDM to make changes to the firewall on a constant basis with no issues. Recently, I needed to SSH into the firewall to make s...

^^^^ SF material?
@Gilles Looks like it to me.

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