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05:55
@RoryAlsop sure Ill take a look
always sad when a real site closes down... though I guess it was too niche?
I dont think I'd be sad if The Workplace closes down, for example. I just dont get wth the point of that one is...
hehe... @RoryAlsop didja notice their meta post announcing that they shutting down, grabbed a whole bunch of retalitory downvotes...?
 
2 hours later…
07:30
@RoryAlsop hmm, thats weird... your answer is missing.
I had assumed you linked to the q, just realized it should have been the answer.
'course I realized that after I posted my own answer.
0
A: Migration candidates

AviDSec.se moderator here... You can definitely push all the q's in the [encryption] and [security] tags over to us (some of them have already been migrated). They are all on topic, though I can't guarantee how quickly some of the more niche questions will get answers. This includes: Is BitL...

please take a look.
discussion.... ev'rbody please jump in:
2
Q: Critique my question about configuration for /dev/urandom

D.W.This is about the following question: What do I need to configure, to make sure my software uses /dev/urandom? Please critique the question. If you believe it has violated any rules, please cite the rule that it violates, with a citation or link to the rule. One person mentioned they believe t...

07:51
@AviD I had commented that the hashing one might be a better fit on crypto, and that there were a couple less suitable (as they were mostly answerable just by reading HIPAA) but yep - all fine
@RoryAlsop ah, thats true
wanna add a comment, or edit that in?
@AviD nahh - lets make it easy for them. Once they come over we can always speak to @Ninefingers and see if he wants the crypto one, and the HIPAA ones are definitely not on topic anywhere else so we can either keep em here or close
@RoryAlsop okay.
I hope I made it clear about the hipaa ones though, the ones that are about just RTFP wouldnt be good for us anyway, cuz at best they would be lawyer-y types.
08:08
@AviD I'll add my supporting comment - I think you and @Gilles are right. We need a 'one best answer' with all these existing answers rolled into one. From the perspective of someone coming here to find the answer, they should see one top-voted answer with everything they need in it.
gilles comment on the question amused me. Welcoming the highest rep user to the site, that's just ballsy.
heh heh
so what I think I will do is suggest to him that he roll up all his answers into one, or lets me do it.
I am swithering as to whether it is too broad though
@AviD ...2nd highest. You forget the bear
@RoryAlsop ah, right, of course.
I meant highest rep of the mortal users.
@RoryAlsop while it is kind of broad, it is also specific.
possibly needs a tag, though....?
@AviD :-)
08:24
i think it is a very specific question, with broad coverage.
or am I contradicting myself?
heh - I think you are right. It could be a wide range of questions, eg what do I need to do to ensure php uses /dev/urandom etc, or just one question (which should then have all the answers in one)
not a good fit here really, due to SE structure
@RoryAlsop but thats the point, I dont think splitting it up to separate questions would be better. especially since part of the question is which programs are relevant.
so the broad coverage, is part of being specific. so to speak.
@AviD I agree - I wouldn't like it split up as it would get very annoying.
08:40
@RoryAlsop Yes, please merge. Annoying as hell... and semi-obvious rep whoring to boot.
 
2 hours later…
10:10
@JeffFerland semi?
Well he only got 8 rep out of the question
@CodeInChaos I think he would get more for a single, great answer.
Probably yes
10:35
so, the repwhoring is not completely obvious.
@AviD I initially upvoted and edited to remove the one-item-per-answer request. When DW reverted my edit, I reverted my vote and voted to close. Now that Rory's edited again, I changed my vote again and morally rescind my vote to close
@Gilles it's gonna be one of them days, eh :-)
@RoryAlsop hey, you don't do labor day anyway (or do you have it in Scotland?)
@Gilles don't know which one that is, and we couldn't do it here as it is spelt incorrectly :-)
I'm merging DW's answers into his oldest
10:46
@Gilles Good man!
I was waiting to see if he would, but I think based on past behaviour that that could be a long wait, so I think you are going the right way
ok, done
not sure what to do about Rook's answer, he did it in good faith (or at least he gets the benefit of doubt)
To be honest, I think David's answer is actually the most correct - it forces any app that uses random to use urandom...
sorry I mixed up Rook and David Schwartz there
@RoryAlsop I was starting to write “don't you mean David?”
So yeah, I think we should probably leave Rook's answer for now - ,maybe pop a comment on suggesting he add it in to DW's
11:04
@Gilles you may get some flag weight for all that :-)
@RoryAlsop as one of the vocal opponents of flag weights, I assure you that I do not care
hahahaaha - me neither, I just thought it was funny
because of your historical comments on flag weights
I flagged them for review, so that you could take each flagged answer in turn and check that the material had been copied elsewhere
@Gilles yep, that's what I did - a quick scan to ensure they had been copied to the master answer correctly, then deleted them off
oh, incoming migrations
11:27
@Gilles yeah I gathered as much.
@RoryAlsop I think that will likely lead to a fight, explosion, or hissy fit.
@AviD and everyone else with 5k on Stack Overflow: we could use more hands to review suggested edits
the normal load is already more than the regulars can handle, and there are massive tag cleanups in progress
@Gilles ohmylordy there be a lot of them there.
11:54
@Gilles, I'm getting an edit from you although it says "These edits were suggested by users who have not yet earned full edit privileges". This is odd.
Maybe it's because it's a tag (foobar).
12:28
/me sighs
Sourcefire continues to annoy me with their broken ass spec files.
arggh. my xss-fu is rustier than I thought.
seems I've been spending too much time on the white-box side.
well, not too much, but enough to make me a tad rusty on the blackboxing.
q
I mean, I have to wonder how they build these things in house at all. The spec file that ships with the package has missing build time requirements (resulting in compile time failures) and previous versions had fatal rpmbuild errors.
@ScottPack that sounds like the problems are more on the packaging/shipping end.
@AviD That's a true statement.
12:44
@ScottPack and thats one of the common problems with opensource - everybody there loves the coding, nobody likes the packaging work. its tedious.
In the old days on their downloads page they only had the source rpm and tarballs. Now they actually provide packages for el6 and F15. I just can't understand how they build those two.
gorramit! I can almost see the xss, I know their xss filters are faulty. I just cant bloody get around them.
It smells like whomever does the packaging has their workstation set up as a custom build environment instead of using something sane like mock.
@ScottPack nothing wrong with custom build per se, as long as its standard and builtin.
Well, what I mean is that I'm guessing someone installed all the necessary libraries and packages on a workstation, and build against it. Which, sure, can be fine. In the past I've run into packaging problems, though.
For instance, they don't have all of the dependencies set up correctly in the package, but since they were installed on their system everything goes scrumptiously.
12:48
@ScottPack yeah, sounds like one of those dev shops, where it takes a new programmer about 3 weeks till he's up and running.
as opposed to the places that have programmers commit code before they're shown where the bathroom is.
s/he, of course.
These days you're supposed to use something like mock. It sets up a setarch chroot for whatever target OS is, looks at the BuildRequires in the spec, installs those packages, etc
I'll accept pcre, so 's?he ' would be appropriate.
@ScottPack heh. no, that was a simple English optional statement.
@ScottPack doesnt need to be mock, but yeah, any proper build setup should do that (or the equivalent).
@AviD Sure, I was really only calling out mock as an example because it's what I'm familiar with.
Ok, so I got a working build. And, after comparing the specs, I'm happy to say that build time requirements are the only thing they screwed up this time.
Previously they had problems where they were installing files but not listings them as managed.
RPM doesn't like that.
So. xss. Are you trying to exploit it or fix it?
@ScottPack exploit.
much stronger on the fixing it side. rusty on the exploiting.
I'm one of those "F5 (or F9 until a few years ago) is enough for building" guys :P
13:01
Why would you want to use a load balancer as your build environment?
F5 Networks, Inc. () is a networking appliances company. It is headquartered in Seattle, Washington and has development and marketing offices worldwide. It originally manufactured and sold some of the very first load balancing products. In 2010, F5 Networks featured in Fortune's 100 Fastest-Growing Companies list. F5 Networks' flagship product, the BIG-IP network appliance, was originally a network load balancer but today also offers other functionality such as access control and application security. Add-on modules to F5's BIG-IP family of products offer email filtering and intelligent ...
hehe
Never heard of them.
I only care about hardware when it doesn't work
@CodeInChaos ha!
Cisco? never heard of 'em.
13:09
OK, I heard about cisco. They do some network hardware/router stuff, no clue about the details.
3
13:41
@CodeInChaos Image not found here.
And, mornin' all. I miss much?
Interesting. Image shows up fine on my home computer.
I can see the picture aswell :)
@Iszi afternoon :-)
@RoryAlsop I think you just do that to annoy @ScottPack and I, don't you?
why? It's afternoon
Ahhh Iszi, you are from Florida... <3 I love Florida :)
I've been to vacation there a couple of times. Miami, Tampa, Orlando and Key west it my regular places to go to
13:48
@CodeInChaos Long ago, we declared the (un)official time zone for chat would be U.S. Eastern.
Thereby, greetings which relate to the time of day should conform to the current time on the east coast of the U.S.
You shall not have any timezones besides UTC
Starring my ignorance dies of shame
4
14:10
@Iszi hahahaha
@Iszi you say 'agreed' :-)
@CodeInChaos using the word star in chat gains stars - (fact)
3
@RoryAlsop I think declared is the right word. Agreement implies involvement in the decision process.
Also, for the record, the old man saying, 'afternoon' doesn't so much bother me. I'm "that guy" who uses the generic "Good Morning" greeting at all hours of the day.
@RoryAlsop Didn't I? Diamond power abuse, I say!
@ScottPack Same here, I must admit. As long as I've just recently woken up, it can be "morning" any time. I don't like rushing the day into afternoon though.
That is, unless you're actually rushing a workday into the afternoon to make quitting time come sooner. ;-)
I figure sticking to a single greeting is one less thing I have to think about per day.
Know what's mildly annoying? I can't go browse another folder in Outlook while it's running a search.
@ScottPack normally I just say Hi, but that wouldn't get as much back chat from @Iszi :-)
14:32
That's probably true.
Oh goodness, stars, they're everywhere. What have I done?
2
Based on my experience? Probably nothing worth noting.
14:49
@CodeInChaos you used the 's' word
@RoryAlsop which word is that?
...STAR
2
Oh, business world. Scope and methodology for a pentest... THOR BREAK YOUR SHIT
@RoryAlsop booya!!
@AviD heh heh heh
@JeffFerland that would be awesome
14:50
@JeffFerland is that anything like HULK SMASH!!
@AviD Yes, and I like that better for the brevity
great. so after running a bunch of semi-automated tests, I discover that the site I'm testing is down.
Really, it conveys everything in my mind just as well as saying I'm going to reference PTES and NIST 800-115, neither of which you'll ever read as my client... and then I'm going to start with little quiet things and social engineering to sneak in. Then I'll throw the whole kitchen sink and Nessus the crap out of you just to see what happens at the end.
coincidence? did I do it? if so, how? do i need to run all the tests again? gorramit.
@AviD New trick: start with ping and wget
14:53
@JeffFerland ah no, it was up. went down sometime while I was eating, and didnt notice.
and the webserver is up, just the app is down. i.e. status 500....
@AviD So, what you're telling me, is that it worked.
@ScottPack heh.
@JeffFerland You know those two little buttons that say, "Thorough Checks" and "Safe Checks Only"? I can't tell you how giddy those two little check boxes make me.
I wish it was that easy.... I was scanning for XSS. crashing the site is unexpected.
@AviD Next interview I get, I can't wait to explain how XSS can crash the server itself. Who cares about the job? Just telling that story with a straight face will be awesome.
14:58
@JeffFerland hehe
@JeffFerland well, of course it can, especially if you throw in some regex dos....
but i didnt want it to :(
Did I tell you of the time I crashed an outgoing web proxy by using nmap (it was the UDP scan)? I thought, oh well, and killed the scan...
The proxy did not come up
You see, it's like this. Here I was, checking out a XSS PoC, and well, they had WebMin running. You know how there's a plugin to do things like 'dd'? Yeah, well..
when we went to it to power cycle it - it didn't come up
very strange
eventually we had to unplug the network cable and power cycle, then plug the cable back in!
power cycle... isn't that rebooting?
15:03
@RoryAlsop lemme guess, messed with the DNS registration somehow?
nope - was a faulty network card which they had never diagnosed
nmap = physical failure diagnosis
2
@Ninefingers yep
weirdest pen test failure ever
@RoryAlsop ahhh
I've seen hardware failure come up only during the pt... strange indeed
I'm going to use that term from now on. "I'm off to power cycle my PC". Sounds much cooler than "reboot".
from that moment on, that client would only ever let us test out of hours
in case similar things happened again
@Ninefingers heh
@RoryAlsop heh, cuz it was the testers' fault, of course.
15:10
@AviD obviously
@AviD No, but hey... if you're going to do strange things, do them offpeak.. Cheap risk management.
2
@JeffFerland Right. if you're gonna have hardware failures, have them at night!
@RoryAlsop That...is pretty freaking fantastic.
@ScottPack had a hard disk array crash once.
it was worn, I guess, and thanks to some automated testing, minor flooding, and heavy duty sql injections, I guess the thrashing just wore it out.
as you said, crash, power cycle no work, OS wont come back up....
Those kinds of problems wouldn't surprise me to find. I suppose I shouldn't find the nic bug all that surprising either, but for some reason I do.
15:20
@nine thanks for the skeptics flag
yay! server back up.
darn, now I have to go back to testing :(
Just got told we have extra budget for office supplies. Bummer we can't order some Sec.SE pens yet.
(And that the final decision doesn't lie with me. 'Cause we'd totally be getting some pens.)
15:51
I highly recommend the Tul retractable ball gel pen.
16:03
@ScottPack Something special about that, that I'm not getting?
16:13
@Iszi I think it was probably a dirty joke.
@Scott does love his pen-based euphamisms.
 
1 hour later…
17:21
@AviD lol
AAAAARGH! Why do users do this to me?
@JeffFerland what this time Mr. F?
Misread one guy's post.... he spent the last post talking about his server and followed up with a new post... so I told him to nuke his infected server... but he was talking about another website. The one on his server is clean.
... though at least he told me at the start, but still.
Reading comprehension? What?
@JeffFerland who needs it? if you have to make an effort to understand somebody, I say it's (usually) not worth it.
@AviD I did a bit of a rant about that the other day, of sorts...
17:28
@JeffFerland excellent. of course, I stopped reading shortly after the title, but still.
@AviD ha
Well, at least you got the point :)
@Iszi Tul is a brand of pen. Their retractable ball point with gel ink is very nice.
@JeffFerland hehe, I love the 911 call. It's like talking to my almost-teenage daughter.
@ScottPack @Iszi see? tolja it was dirty.
Your face is dirty.
@ScottPack so then you should wash your face.
17:33
@JeffFerland I have a sneaky suspicion there exists a typo somewhere in here -- "(or they’ve this is the 10th call about that same car accident in 3 minutes)"
or a semi-aborted edit midsentence.
I would include that in the classtype t_typo
@AviD I do a lot of those kinds of mistakes.
@JeffFerland End up with lots of abortions on your hands, eh?
@ScottPack Ehh, working the ambulance has taught me to wash my hands early & often.
Of course, nothing is ever 100% effective and sometimes the disease cough Scott Pack cough lives on anyway
17:41
@ScottPack that's nothing, he's actually buried in a town near here.
@JeffFerland I want to counter that, but I don't have enough information on my parentage to do so. :(
In more related news, @JeffFerland, I'm still confused by exactly what that dude wanted. Did he want to add '.' to his PATH, or does he want to add find / -type d to his path?
While I'll agree that there is some confusion, your initial assumption is the one that makes the most sense. Schwartz just seemed to add another interpretation.
2
Q: Run compiled c program from any location

HeadspinQuick question. After compiling a program, I always have to explicitly tell it to run from the current directory by prepending ./ to the name. For example $ ./testprog -argument1 Is there a way to set up some kind of alias which would allow me to call it simply by saying $ testprog -argument1 , ...

Right, I'm reading it.
fuck
He either wanted the program dir in his path, or an alias, or a link...
I just noticed the last phrase in the last sentence.
17:46
Yeah, exactly the problem
But, yeah, it really sounds like he wants that specific directory in his path
To be fair, my reaction was likely colou?red by the alternative theory proposer.
@JeffFerland When you listed 911 numbers, you forgot one... 0118 999 881 999 119 7253
@Iszi Ah, yes, THAT ONE
Well, I figured it was so easy to remember I wouldn't have to mention it
heh - too broad?
0
Q: What are the security issues in ecommerce?

jammmie999What are the security issues in ecommerce? I currently have: Transport layer security issues data being intercepted (ccard details stolen etc) Vulnerability in web app SQL Injection XSS Client side malware stealing ccard details etc. Am I missing anything else? Thanks

@Iszi I think its 112 for Europe
(999 in UK, but 112 works everywhere in EU)
@Iszi I like to use the phrase, "Looking forward to hearing from you." and see who responds. /cc @JeffFerland
17:51
@RoryAlsop absolutely.
besides, I'm pretty sure its a dupe. :)
It's one of those lists that we're supposed to burn effigies of.
The ordering of information in a question is the least of my worries
The questions that really annoy me, just describe what the user is doing, but not why or what's the goal
and then they refuse to answer in any meaningful way to clarification requests
@CodeInChaos but that's easy. you just nuke it from orbit. no value there, not a real question.
It's getting better, but I used to find myself responding to advice requests with, "What are you trying to accomplish?" rather than responding to their question.
I just can't step away from these trainwreck questions
-1
Q: Hash function selection

user1302932I have 8 digits and I generate A1,A2,A3 to use first 5 digits.Now I want to generate A1'=hash(x||A2||A3) A2'=hash(x||A1'||A2) A3'=hash(x||A2'||A3') Which hash function I should use?

Most of John Paul Parreño's questions, or questions like
17:58
Speaking of effective communication, I heard a domestic fight in the street late at night. I rolled out of bed, pulled up some pants, and grabbed my phone. Called 911, told them what and where, and provided a description of the two people involved.
Well, the cops show up and the closest person to them matching the description of shirtless guy in the middle of Congress St. is now me...
@JeffFerland Nice.
So, when did they release you?
@ScottPack Well, the good news is they noticed the other guy before they reached me, but I'll tell you that it's not a very friendly look you get when they think you're the guy from a domestic.
I'll bet
18:04
Wow...
I can send an IP packet to Europe faster than I can send a pixel to the screen. How f’d up is that?
Great answer: Transatlantic ping faster than sending a pixel to the screen? http://superuser.com/questions/419070/transatlantic-ping-faster-than-sending-a-pixel-to-the-screen/419167?atw=1#419167 #networking
look at the number of votes!!!! Bloody hell
Before reading the answer I wanted to comment: The display latency by itself is meaningless, you also need to add the input latency, since the combined latency is what's relevant for a gamer.
I've been wondering about that latency for a long time, but was too lazy to find it out.
Speaking of people I find annoying spouting forth in comments...
 
1 hour later…
19:14
Doing a security code review in class...
I might be cringing at the professor's choice of protection methods
what did he do?
@JeffFerland
@CodeInChaos In suid code, protecting traversal of directories by the user by disallowing any input with a "/" in it instead of making good use of spc_drop_privileges" and spc_restores_privileges`
@JeffFerland wonderful
another example of the school of "Input Validation is Holy (and all you ever need)" gone wrong.
Setuid isn't my expertise, but I don't get it. It sounds to me like preventing directory traversal, and preventing the opening of files the user has no access to are separate concerns
19:35
Setuid isn't my domain of expertise either, but a quick Google search for "setuid coding guidelines" points quickly to the notion of acquiring and release privileges as early as possible.
19:45
@Bruno well duh. that's always true of privileged code.
though to be accurate - acquiring late and releasing early.
@AviD, oh yes, of course, I'm not disputing that at all. Just saying that in a course about suid, that should be an important point, more than input validation.
Someone's just edited an old answer about iframe security on SO, more or less suggesting to allow mixed content if necessary (although it's about the other way around)... Hum... Not such a good idea. stackoverflow.com/a/2389719/372643
@Bruno exactly my point, too.
people have apparently been listening too intently to the "Validate all input" and not enough to all the other parts.
One funny point about input validation or even encoding is that many people do it at a point where they don't know what they need.
@CodeInChaos also true. root cause of many XSS, for example.
@Avid, agreed. Here is another example of "validate all input" gone wrong (instead of validate the output): stackoverflow.com/questions/8858733/…
19:59
One of my favorite variations is asp.net checking for things like script tags in the incoming http parameters
also sometimes when they dont know what they have - i.e. lack of canonicalization.
@CodeInChaos eh. thats just really the roughest form of blacklist defense in depth.
never was intended as real protection, just a little bit extra.
The problem with this sort of systematic approach (like asp.net) is that they can make developers who assume it's there think that it's enough.
@Bruno ah, yes. False sense of security, and all that.
on the other hand, it does block the lowest hanging fruit for the countless more programmers who don't bother doing any validation or encoding is enough.
Razor at least has automatic output encoding, that's a bit better
That's true, but I'd prefer a framework that sanitises the output rather than blocking those inputs.
20:05
user image
4
Sorry it took so long. Hard to find that guy.
And I think they added some auto-encoding feature to the webforms viewengine too.
Seriously, why do I get so many Image Not Found pictures here?
it only worked after refreshing for me
@CodeInChaos Oh, hey! Whaddyaknow? Worked here, too.
For a second there, I was thinking maybe @ScottPack's input had been over-validated or something...
20:15
@ScottPack perfect
Anyone else see this?
Dawnguard, A New Skyrim DLC Coming This Summer http://dlvr.it/1W0B7R
There goes my summer.
@CodeInChaos @bruno the razor encoding works fantastically, and it is context relevant too. it's the way it should be, thats the framework you wanted
for webforms there is a built in encoded output - using <%: instead of <%= but its not default.
because of backwards compatibility
webforms is ugly as hell anyways
@CodeInChaos agreed. razor is simply beautiful.
A bit too code-y for my taste. I'd prefer the general style of smarty, but with the current tooling support razor is the best choice for asp.net.
20:18
smarty?
and your name is @CodeInChaos, you're complaining about code...? ;)
as JeffA says, programmers shouldnt be afraid of writing code. Personally I prefer it.
I mean that I don't like the way C# constructs mingle with the html
the @ expression syntax is cool. The block syntax less so
I think I prefer Genshi (as a template framework).
@CodeInChaos ah. well you dont really need to, but if you do it does so very cleanly, much better than most other frameworks I've seen
@Bruno but I guess I havent seen them all...??
@AviD, to be honest, I know very little about the .Net platform in general, so I wouldn't be able to comment on Razor. Sounds good, though.
20:39
I have got to get me one of these!
@Iszi need more screens, obviously
You can turn off the heating in that room with all those CRT screens (and towers).
I prefer to do all my heating via MacPro
 
2 hours later…
22:36
I created a for some questions from Healthcare IT that didn't have
and I created . I can't believe that didn't exist yet
22:49
You don't need TLS, http digest auth is perfectly secure*
* assumes no MitM is pressent
great
lol
hey, I don't need security at all
I'm just assuming the absence of attackers
0
A: Why does security.stackexchange.com not encrypt logins?

Chris SFirst (and I can't believe a Security site hasn't mentioned this yet), there's more than one way to secure a login. SSL/TLS is not the option option. The other options are perfectly valid too. Your password is sent to your OpenID Provider. Most use SSL to secure the connection because so many pe...

23:19
There are a number of problems with HTTP Digest: no protection of the request/response entities, hard to distinguish from HTTP Basic from a UI point of view, downgradable to HTTP Basic, and also doesn't really help proving the identity of the site.

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