The DMZ

Matthew

11:00

@Arperum Yeah. They could put you on gardening leave (at full pay), or give you a pay off to cover the restricted period

HamZa

@QPaysTaxes I was told after I pinged you

Gilles

@RоryMcCune @RoryAlsop I have no idea what assumptions you're assuming that HamZa is making, but what he said about me was basically correct. If kalina's messages had been targeted at anyone else, I would have flagged that message as offensive. The only reason I didn't was that I would have been both judge and party.

Rory Alsop

@Gilles And I would have absolutely disagreed that it was offensive. As did many people here. It was definitely not flag-worthy

Gilles

I find your reaction inappropriate @RoryAlsop @RoryAlsop @DavidFreitag @MarkBuffalo . You're saying that since kalina is your friend, anyone who objects to anything she says is wrong.

Rory Alsop

@Gilles nope - I have never met her, nor even know who she is

I see behaviours though, and I see history

Gilles

11:12

@HamZa You were right to flag what you consider to be offensive. You should have used a custom flag rather than an offensive flag since it was a pattern rather than a specific message, but those people who are telling you that your flag was abusive are violating basic norms. If someone is not nice, flagging is appropriate.

Rory Alsop

She has wound a couple of folks up the wrong way, but in general is amenable to rational discourse. The same goes for you. You are both seemingly very intolerant of each other - which is why I mentioned to both of you to calm it down

@Gilles no Gilles - that is not what anyone is saaying at all

you should know better than that

Gilles

@RoryAlsop Once again, I have no problem with kalina as a person.

Rory Alsop

Hamza has already agreed to leave it. We're all sorted - don't raise drama again

Gilles

I have a problem with some specific actions of hers.

And I have a problem with the way you dismiss HamZa and my concerns.

@RoryAlsop the only reason I'm raising it again is that @RоryMcCune completely misrepresented what I said.

Rory Alsop

@Gilles can you point me to a specific

Gilles

11:15

3 hours ago, by Rоry McCune

@HamZa heh, you're making assumptions about @Gilles that I don't think hold at all, he's not knowing for pulling his punches

Rory Alsop

@Gilles Oh - that one I'm afraid I do agree with, but again, I don't necessarily think this is the place to do this

again - it is not something I would say you do wrong, but your tolerance level for things is much lower than some other folks

It's fine - all people are different - but we have to all agree to cope with a wide range of 'different'

Flagging really isn't that place - flagging is for extremes

Rоry McCune

@Gilles no i didn't. I said he was making assumptions

which he was

@Gilles he was assuming your motivations without evidence

@Gilles which is what I stated, how does that misrepresent what you said?

Gilles

yesterday, by Gilles

@kalina Wow, the only reason I'm not flagging this as offensive is that I'm a moderator and my flag wouldn't get a second opinion

Rоry McCune

@Gilles if you thought it was offensive you should've flagged it, why do you need a second opinion on your own feelings?

Gilles

@RоryMcCune because if I cast an offensive flag, it's binding. I'd be judge and party, and I don't like that.

Rоry McCune

11:22

@Gilles are you advocating that people try to guess the feelings of other users in room and flag as a result

I think that's a very bad idea

which is what I said

Gilles

@RоryMcCune what's this about feelings?

Rоry McCune

@Gilles offense is subjective, and feeling related inevitably

what is offensive to you may not be offensive to others

if you take offense that's a subjective and entirely valid opinion

perhaps feelings is a bad word

opinion may be better

Matthew

@RоryMcCune I am offended by your opinion that my feeling on offensiveness of statements is not binding on all other people everywhere

Rоry McCune

@Gilles what I'm suggesting is that offense it related to the person taking it, if other participants start trying to guess whether Someone took "offence" to something we'll get a load (more) useless flags

@Matthew oh noes

@QPaysTaxes @Gilles felt differently

HamZa

@QPaysTaxes yes, that's why I'm restraining from talking

Rоry McCune

11:25

@HamZa nah go for it , it would be unfair for you to have to not comment when others are

Journeyman Geek

:( this came up again?

Rоry McCune

I wanted to move the room on from it, but... that would appear not to be the case

Gilles

@RоryMcCune I dropped it yesterday. The only reason I brought it back up is that you told HamZa that he was wrong about me, when he was right. Please don't misrepresent people's opinions.

HamZa

@QPaysTaxes at me?

Rоry McCune

I have a simple resolution to this from a personal perspective I feel...

Journeyman Geek

11:27

@HamZa meh, no one's really got a right to duck tape your mouth shut, especially in a situation where you're clearly not starting it.

Rоry McCune

ahh that's better

@QPaysTaxes oooh no it was me that suggested he drop it (in my role as room owner) not a mod

so I feel entirely justified in rescinding that :)

HamZa

4 hours ago, by HamZa

@SmokeDispenser @Shog9 @QPaysTaxes @AviD @MarkBuffalo I wasn't abusing the flag system. I got fed up and this one was a deal breaker: http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/151?m=28764320#28764320
I think we should stop favouritism, I know that a lof of people tolerate her attitude/jokes but some people don't. And apparently the flag got approved.

^ emphasis on the favouritism sentence

Matthew

Query: should we use the phrase "duck tape" (a brand) or "duct tape" (a type of tape)?

Rоry McCune

if another mod wants to step in they totally can. I'm officially done with this conversation.

@Matthew ya know that's an interesting question, I've heard both

Journeyman Geek

@Matthew duck tape is rubber backed tape. Duct tape should be metal backed.

Rоry McCune

11:29

@JourneymanGeek ahh so there's an official difference, who knew

Matthew

Ah, see now there are competing theories

Journeyman Geek

@QPaysTaxes duck tape should never be used for ducts

or ducks.

Matthew

Can either party produce evidence?

Journeyman Geek

and using duct tape on ducks is illegal in over 52 US states

Rоry McCune

@JourneymanGeek duck taping ducks would be horrible

user11842

11:31

This crisis is apparently almost in need of its own wikipedia page.

Rоry McCune

@QPaysTaxes he'll be including the UK

Journeyman Geek

@QPaysTaxes Yeah. Even the ones they don't want you to know about

Matthew

@QPaysTaxes No-one has specified that we have to stop talking about duc[t|k] tape

Which can you use when performing vetinary surgery on ducks?

If any?

Journeyman Geek

@Matthew oddly enough? Superglue might be a good option

Matthew

@JourneymanGeek Superglue is good for broken nails, although appears, to my untrained eye, to be the same as nail glue, which is massively cheaper when purchased in a train station

Journeyman Geek

11:33

0_0

Rоry McCune

@Matthew wasn't it invented to put on wounds in the battlefield (superglue that is)

Journeyman Geek

well, if its the brush on stuff...

Matthew

@RоryMcCune I think so, yes

Journeyman Geek

Brush on superglue is basically the sorta thing that once you use it, you stick to it.

Matthew

@JourneymanGeek Brand loyalty is a fantastic thing!

Journeyman Geek

11:34

@Matthew oh, I'm not picky about brands

but its just so much easier to apply than the stuff that ~~is designed to glue your fingers together~~ the stuff in the tube

Matthew

@JourneymanGeek How do they make the brush not stick together?

Journeyman Geek

also if you store it in a fridge, lasts ages, or least you run out of glue

Good question

I assumed it was magic

hm. I wonder if the fingerprint/fume trick works with that.

Matthew

In a related note, how do you get teflon to stick to frying pans

Journeyman Geek

@QPaysTaxes if it ain't it is surely technology indistinguishable from it

Matthew

And can you stick things to non-stick pans with superglue?

Terry Chia

11:37

@JourneymanGeek What about chickens?

Matthew

@TerryChia Whoever heard of chicken tape? It's chicken wire, for wiring chickens into your network

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia why would you want to stick a chicken to a frying pan

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop New cooking technique? I dunno...

Matthew

Do you remove the feathers first?

Terry Chia

@Matthew Defeather to taste.

Matthew

11:39

Or is this a method of removing feathers, by sticking them to something and pulling the chicken away?

Terry Chia

Btw, I just made my first batch of cold brew coffee. Tastes pretty good. /cc @AviD

Matthew

Lunchtime!

AviD

@TerryChia enjoy!

is all the drama in the room done with then?

Terry Chia

Much easier process than I expected as well.

AviD

cuz if so, I want to save the modfights as a conversation for posterity.

Terry Chia

11:40

@AviD Hopefully.

AviD

@TerryChia yeah its pretty much even easier than making regular coffee.

Rоry McCune

@AviD oy you, first rule of "no drama club" is we don't talk about the drama

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Isn't the first rule that we don't talk about the lack of drama?

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia what drama...

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia shhhhhhhhhh

AviD

11:44

ahh, we're talking now about the relative benefits of taping vs. gluing ducks. So things are back to normal in the DMZ.

Journeyman Geek

@Matthew chickens make very good camera stabilised tho

@Matthew you need to try it out, for science.

Rory Alsop

@JourneymanGeek you superglue a gopro to a chicken?

Journeyman Geek

also, erf, moving books sucks.

Rоry McCune

@JourneymanGeek ebooks FTW

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune ebooks pros: convenient, weightless. cons: they aren't books, you can't smell or touch them

Journeyman Geek

11:48

youtu.be/UytSNlHw8J8?t=32 rubber bands

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop this is true, I still have some bookshelves which I have no intention of getting rid of.

Journeyman Geek

@RoryAlsop @RоryMcCune most of my newer books are ebooks, though most are baen or amazon

However my dad's painting the room with the bookshelves and I need to shift some books for now

Rоry McCune

ya know someone suggested that the HTC vive is a ploy to get geeks to clean their rooms

'cause you need the space to play

Journeyman Geek

If I could afford one, no better reason to

tho, I have a rediculously large living room which would be perfect

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune annoyingly, I've taken to buying in both formats these days

Rоry McCune

11:54

@JourneymanGeek I've got an office which should be big enough... fingers crossed they can keep up the rate on deliveries, and I get mine in May!

@RoryAlsop heh I usually do eBooks for tech stuff 'cause they're easier to search

but other stuff with pictures and the like pBooks can be better

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune yeah - my entire Subaru Forester maintenance manual is ebook only

very handy when under the car

SmokeDispenser

@RoryAlsop but not so handy when broken down in the middle of nowhere;)

Rory Alsop

@SmokeDispenser much handier - you'd never have the full paper colleciton with you, but always have the kindle

SmokeDispenser

rly?

I don't even have a kindle.

Rоry McCune

I pretty much always have some form of device that'll run the kindle app on me

be that an iOS device or an Android device

Rory Alsop

12:01

@SmokeDispenser step one - buy a kindle, or run the kindle app on your phone

Mark Buffalo

12:11

@Gilles disagree here. I am just telling people to calm down.

Rory Alsop

@MarkBuffalo aye - let's leave it Mark.

Mark Buffalo

and ask if the recipient of the joke is offended first

sure

Simon

Does the D in DMZ stand for Drama?

Mark Buffalo

DraMaZone

2

RoraΖ

Let the WhatsApp mayhem begin

Simon

12:13

Or Drama Militarized Zone

Since it usually ends up in wars.

AviD

@MarkBuffalo Drama Mama Zumba

Rоry McCune

@Simon until everyone starts slacking off :)

Simon

So let's take bets on how long until kalinuh comes back

I'd like to remind everyone that last time, she was gone for months so please consider this before placing your bet.

Rоry McCune

@Simon I'm not sure @kalina will return soon, which I for one regard as a shame, same as @TildalWave

2

user11842

@Simon Points out that the drama is dragging on, starts throwing jerry cans at the fire.

Rоry McCune

12:15

they were active room participants who I enjoyed talking to

SmokeDispenser

hey @Simon

Mark Buffalo

@RоryMcCune agreed

Simon

@TechnikEmpire ... That doesn't encourage drama one bit.

AviD

@RоryMcCune what happened with @TildalWave?

Simon

@AviD Wow, do you even DMZ bro?

Rоry McCune

12:16

@Simon The. First. Rule. Of. Drama. Club Is. We DO. NOT. TALK. About. Drama. Club.!

SmokeDispenser

@AviD shog suspended him, ragequit.

Simon

@RоryMcCune I DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE CLUB!

AviD

@SmokeDispenser dammit

Rоry McCune

@AviD a dev. suspended him for 6 days over some stuff that we're not going to bring up again

Rory Alsop

@Simon or let's just drop it and look at the learning points: RO's and mods can be a bit more supportive keeping the room below that kickoff level, community can speak up if something is wrong (and not get flamed down), and flagging can be used just for extremes

AviD

12:16

was that in the same drama session from yesterday, or something seperate?

Simon

jeezus I didn't think you guys were this sensible on the subject

SmokeDispenser

@AviD separate.

Rory Alsop

@AviD very separate - can chat in TL if you like

Rоry McCune

:28794957 this is days ago

AviD

@RоryMcCune oh hang on, I did see about that

M'vy

12:17

@AviD lookup the bookmarks

SmokeDispenser

@AviD, in fact, the suspension will end soon, I think.

Rory Alsop

@AviD it wasn't actually a DMZ thing as such

Rоry McCune

@AviD yeah I was guessing it was just your memory failing, happens to you older types

user11842

@RoryAlsop TL? Pardon muh noobness

AviD

@Simon on any subject, really.

Rory Alsop

12:17

it was just that that bit of chat was in here after a lot of other stuff

Simon

@AviD Yeah no kidding.

Rory Alsop

@TechnikEmpire the Teacher's Lounge - where the mods hang out to discuss everything

user11842

@RoryAlsop ah ok. Thx

Rоry McCune

@TechnikEmpire sooper secret room for blues only

user11842

@RоryMcCune I'm so jelluz

AviD

12:18

@RoryAlsop we should go there more often to talk about these blokes behind their backs

Rоry McCune

on an entirely different note hey @RoryAlsop what's your take on the whole NAS Whisky thing?

Rory Alsop

@TechnikEmpire where the vast majority of important stuff gets sorted (not just talking behind your backs, honest...)

Simon

@AviD Can we make a room where mods aren't allowed to do the same?!?

M'vy

@AviD how is that fun

Rоry McCune

I only caught on to it recently

SmokeDispenser

12:19

@AviD if that keeps you from posting here;-)

Simon

@SmokeDispenser rekt

Mark Buffalo

@RоryMcCune I was about to say Whiskey isn't allowed here

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune dammit - have I been too focused on Panama, Turkey, Drama that I missed a Whisky thing? Please linky...

Rоry McCune

@Simon yeah it's called a slack channel

user11842

@RoryAlsop yeah sure sure. Now I know where everyone went to bring down the month long banhammer on me years ago

AviD

12:19

@M'vy you should see what @RoryAlsop really thinks of you guys. Hysterical.

Simon

@RоryMcCune ... Oh, yeah, that'd work.

Rory Alsop

@AviD pfffft

@MarkBuffalo but whisky is fine

Mark Buffalo

@RoryAlsop NAS anagram

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop it's the way that many brands are doig No Age Statement whiskys now and trying to pass them off as "premium" products to satisfy demand when in a lot of cases they're like 5 years old

Simon

pls all alcohol discussions will not be tolerated, there are minors in the room

AviD

12:20

@MarkBuffalo I dont get it

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune oh - that's just stupid. I have no problem with no age, as long as there is a spec for each one that includes consistent flavour. I'll then buy ones that have the flavour I like

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop things like Talisker storm, Glenlivet Founders reserve, that kind of things

Rory Alsop

but I won't pay 24yr old whisky prices for a 5

Mark Buffalo

@AviD Rearrange the letters: NAS

Rory Alsop

@MarkBuffalo ?

ASN, NAS, SAN, SNA

Mark Buffalo

12:21

DAMMIT

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop that's my thinking I'm happy to pay just not the same as I'd pay for a proper older whisky

user11842

@MarkBuffalo Too much tinfoil

AviD

@MarkBuffalo NSA don't like whisky?

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune exactly - the older whisky has asociated storage costs along with the greater depth of flavour

@MarkBuffalo lol

Matthew

The NSA are in my SAN, having hacked through my NAS?

Rory Alsop

12:22

@Matthew is ASN like A.S.L. (did I do that right?)

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop I noticed 'cause there were some heavily discounted bottles on amazon and they were NAS things, original price like £33 down to £20. at £20 it was fine, £33 less so...

AviD

@Matthew that makes no sense.

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune agreed

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop edinburghwhiskyblog.com/2014/02/12/no-age-statement-whisky

M'vy

ASN.1 ?

Rоry McCune

12:23

if you want a flavour of the drama

Matthew

@AviD Sure it does! If you keep your tin hat on!

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune (I actually didn't know it was called NAS until right now)

@QPaysTaxes Storage

AviD

@RоryMcCune that einstein quote is so wrong

it doesnt count years in the bottle

Rory Alsop

@AviD and he swore mostly in German

M'vy

@QPaysTaxes Subject Alternative Name

or idk

Matthew

12:24

@QPaysTaxes Basically, lots of storage devices networked together, and presented as a single device, but with a lot more buzzwords in

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop yeah I had no idea till I started googling around and found there's a whole stramash about it in whisky blogs

AviD

@QPaysTaxes which is different from Network Attached Storage

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune perfect use of Stramash, there

AviD

for some strange enterprisey reason

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop apparently the big distillarys are doing it to keep up with international demand

M'vy

12:25

or dmz iS full of drAma Now.

SEJPM

Wow, there are soooooooo many WhatsApp questions here since they announced e2e :O

Matthew

@QPaysTaxes Oh! You should store the information on it in your SAN, which should prevent that kind of forgetting

Rory Alsop

@SEJPM I'm hoping we can dupe-close most, and keep yours and maybe 1 other...

Matthew

@QPaysTaxes Do you have a NAS?

Rory Alsop

I am an optimist

Matthew

12:26

@RoryAlsop A friend said that I was an optimist who got frustrated when things didn't work as expected

Rоry McCune

@Simon yeah perhaps a slack team called "off-topic DMZ" and then just refer all off-topic chat to that :)

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune cue tumbleweeds in here...

you cannot keep a live chat room populated if you stay on topic all the time

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop well that might be a consequence, indeed. isn't there a SE site that's already done that?

@RoryAlsop I would agree, even I can only talk about security so often

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune yup, one or two. And they are now empty except for site specific stuff

which is a fail in my eyes

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop do they have pointers from their rooms to the slack channels?

Rory Alsop

12:28

Here there is semi-continuous chat, which gets sidelined when on topic topics come in

@RоryMcCune not sure - I don't think I have visited them

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop and here was me thinking you were on all the SE sites :op

Simon

@RоryMcCune Hehehe.

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune what would I do on mathematics chat, for example

I think I'm only in 30 chat rooms right now

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop Mathy things?

SEJPM

@RoryAlsop bang your head against the wall because you understand nothing?

Rory Alsop

12:31

@RоryMcCune I like maths, but I wouldn't chat about it

@SEJPM nah - I'm not bad at maths really

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop "sooo those prime numbers, how's about them then"

AviD

@RоryMcCune its not just that. All these things that we talk about - beer, food, whisky, donuts, wine, rudeness - all these things ARE on topic, for us as infosec people. just lesser ontopic than infosec itself.

Rory Alsop

lol

AviD

@RoryAlsop well for one, you could use the mathematics to count up all those rooms.

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune ok, you've spotted a maths topic I might chat about

Rоry McCune

12:33

@AviD well yes, but that may not be a view SE would agree about...

Matthew

7! Good or bad?

Rory Alsop

@AviD quite a few are the type that will have nothing in for days, and then a quick burst of activity then another gap

StackExchange

Conspiracy theory: There's no such thing as corn. Those fields you see are just the stalks of a fungus that's controlling our brains to make us want to spread it.

AviD

@RоryMcCune so? since when do developers understand the minds of infosec?

Rory Alsop

@Matthew toss-up. Hitler's favourite, and most of the population's favourite, but kind of cool

Rоry McCune

12:34

@AviD since they control the platform that the room is in?

Simon

I'd also like to remind you that ponies are the most awesome animal known to mankind!

Matthew

I found something that is mathsy, computery, and just cool

AviD

@RоryMcCune meh, as you know, they only control it because infosec lets them ;-)

@Simon WHAT

shuddup

Rоry McCune

@Simon hey hey hey, that might be a direct mention of recent drama... we'll have none of that :op

AviD

no more drama for the rest of the week

Simon

12:35

o pls I was asleep when you lads went back on the topic!

This is not fair!

And now I'm getting ponied

pLs

Erm, what do we do with this:

1

Q: Which topics should a security training for non-IT persons contain?

(I am not sure, if this question fits the security.stackexchange-board, but the list of askable topics does not exclude this question imho and there are some examples) I've worked for several different companies of which some had outsourced their IT-department. This means that the people at the ...

professional-education

Rory Alsop

@Simon ...fire?

I'm joking

Simon

:OOOO

AviD

@RoryAlsop I see someone is missing ponies

Simon

@AviD WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE EVENTS OR ANYTHING RELATED TO IT

OVID PLS

Rory Alsop

@Simon lol

AviD

12:39

The Doors - Light My Fire

►

Simon

You're lucky that I don't have powers otherwise that would have gotten ponified pretty hard.

Rory Alsop

@Simon what, like that.....

Simon

@RoryAlsop 10/10

Rory Alsop

@AviD good choice of song

AviD

@Simon did you ponify yourself?

I'm impressed.

Simon

12:44

Hell to the no.

Rоry McCune

@AviD looks like you were the one that got ponified

AviD

looks like it.

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune shhh - he hadn't spotted it

oh, hi @AviD

whistles

AviD

@RоryMcCune heh. missed that.

Rоry McCune

@AviD too slow little tigger

AviD

12:45

@RoryAlsop no I didnt... and a disappointing miss.

but he did also ponify himself

or, did you actually mean "ponify"

Rory Alsop

That Mitchell and Webb Look Snooker 1

►

AviD

dammit. Is anyone else keep getting timeouts when posting to the dmz?

Rоry McCune

@AviD well the message is unedited

Rory Alsop

@AviD a bit laggy for me today

coffee time. Oh, and breakfast. Time to leave the house and visit Costa Coffee...

AviD

@RoryAlsop yeah I just got a fresh package from Bali. Love the freshness.

Simon

12:55

no ovid, I love YOUR freshness

NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO TYPE BACKSLASH WINDOZE

Rоry McCune

@Simon ...err , what?

Simon

SEE I CAN'T EVEN TYPE THE WORD PROPERLY

Wow that sentence was a damn mess.

Journeyman Geek

@Simon you're being somewhat crazier than usual

Yeah, it was

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