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19:00
Even if they were able to monitor all entry nodes, what's the point if the data is encrypted anyway
@RoraΖ All connection metadata is being logged on U.S. soil. I'm not sure what you mean. Did I misunderstand you?
The encryption is not the issue... it's the meta data.
If there is a TOR node on US soil, it can't be monitored without warrants.
@RoraΖ NSA pwns the ISPs.
@RoraΖ you're assuming that it's not being setup by those that want to monitor it
If you already know the computer that's making the requests through TOR, why do all of this massive collection? Just pwn the computer.
19:02
you don't need a warrant to monitor your own infrastructure
That'd be a helluva lot easier.
Basement dwelling neckbeard -> proxy1 -> proxy2 -> proxy3 -> proxy4 -> proxy5 -> proxy6 -> proxy7
data sent at 10:30 10:30 10:30 10:30 10:31 10:31 10:31 10:32

traffic patterns
@RoraΖ Exactly
aliens
@MarkBuffalo Problem is proxy 8 is in North Korea, proxy 9 is in Iran, proxy 10 is in China...
data travels BACK: proxy7 -> proxy6 -> proxy5 -> proxy4 -> proxy3 -> proxy2 -> proxy1 -> neckbeard
give enough data being sent to/fro, you will realize a pattern quickly
19:03
yawn
If you setup your TOR correctly it will use different circuits for each connection.
Yeah, that makes it a lot more difficult.
My main point earlier was VPN chaining
I thought were were talking about TOR
All my points are invalid, carry on.
it kind of veered in two directions
No, they are very valid for TOR
But if you can monitor the TOR circuits
Is it possible to setup TOR to make the connection but you use your own browser?
19:06
here's what happens... it sees around a specific time, that you send to one of the tor hops. with metadata, you can actually follow the TOR circuits
@RoraΖ Problem he's getting at is, if you have a domestic attacker and target, you can figure out your target received bursts of data in sizes X, Y, and Z at times A, B, and C. Then you can figure out that the attacker sent packages of those sizes (plus predictable TOR overhead) at around those times (plus somewhat-predictable lag) to a domestic TOR entry node or across a monitored international link.
@Iszi NK hosts TOR nodes? lol
4
A: Weird Log Record from 169.229.3.91 - is this a hack attempt?

Mark BuffaloYou're being scanned by researchers Is this a hack attempt ? This is a research scan performed by the University of California at Berkeley: This is a research scanning machine from the University of California at Berkeley. This machine regularly conducts scans of the entire Internet so ...

Nice answer btw
China's networks are already all logged, along with Iran. I looked at the prism slides
@MarkBuffalo Honestly, wouldn't be surprised.
19:08
@MarkBuffalo lol
Seriously, pour over the snowden documents
They reveal everything
"general" editing of documents/images doesn't help because you already know they're there
and you can fill in the blank details yourself easily
The problem is there's a metric shite-tonne of metric shite-tonnes of data to sort through, to find those correlations. And even then it takes a standard fuck-ton of fuck-tons of speculation, supposition, and assumptions to even come up with probable suspects from within that data.
I'm not surprised, they're enemies of the US lol
So, unless you've already got a suspect in mind, and you're just using this to validate them, you're up a creek.
@MarkBuffalo did you read all 1100 pages of snowden leak?
19:10
@Iszi isn't that why we have com-puh-ters?
@TildalWave They might be able to handle the metric bits. The rest, not so well.
@TildalWave corn-pube-ters?
@JukEboX geez you're bored :P
@JukEboX Every. Single. Word. Multiple times
@Iszi select * from data where time_range = 'range'
(they use MySQL)
@Iszi well, you'd think that, but lucky for them users behave in simple and very predictable patterns
19:12
Building a platform/connection logger is not too difficult with that data. You can follow the hop circuits and display a diagram
@MarkBuffalo Like I said, that'll handle the metric shite-tons. You gotta deal with the fuck-tons on your own.
@Iszi This may be used to find a suspect to begin with
Hardly. Way too much data to sort through, and too many probable variances that could throw off your search criteria.
@Iszi This is where data analysis skills come into play
@TildalWave yes..... yes I am
19:14
You can create an interface to sort through the circuit data automatically
data mining is a big thing in crime agencies
Yup
I work with data analysis quite heavily. I can piece things together, analyze trends, and find connections. It really wouldn't be too difficult to create something that monitors/unmasks VPN/TOR circuits automatically, even at scale
Right now, I am only assuming that this is part of what they do, not that they do it. It's definitely possible, though
tldr: Repent sinners, metadata is coming
it is quite a bit more advanced than merely passive monitoring
That's true
You may need specific rules for specific circumstances, but that can be automated. Almost anything can be automated
just throw enough moneyz at it
19:27
How do you know there's a rock perturbing out of the middle of the pond if all you can see is the shore? You throw a stone in it.
then you monitor the waves
no need to monitor all the water
@MarkBuffalo Like I said. First mistake had nothing to do with your TOR connection. It was when you pissed off the NSA.
@Iszi lol, well the FBI gets data from the NSA
So if you pissed off the FBI, they will get prism/xkeyscore data from the NSA to assist them
@MarkBuffalo Well, so does @Simon's mom. But that's another topic.
@Iszi substitue "NSA" with "somebody who has enough money and ressources"
19:30
Also, if you're using tor, your connections are logged by default
and monitored actively
If you search for any kind of privacy stuff, you're permanently targeted by the NSA
@SEJPM Well, that applies to people @Simon's mom gets "data" from too.
@SEJPM Pretty much
@Iszi Is this data encoded? Genetic encoding.
@MarkBuffalo You're catching on.
@MarkBuffalo pfff
simple security through obscurity, already broken
@SEJPM Yeah, a few months later it becomes less obscure
19:34
@MarkBuffalo vulnerable to chosen plaintiff and pass the hash attacks?
@TildalWave simple substitution cipher
@TildalWave trying not to laugh
19:53
@TildalWave pass the hash attack? i should take simon's mum to the local diner and try it
@RoryAlsop and the offer is back to Edin!
@RoryAlsop offer letter in hand
@schroeder grats. did you try to negotiate?
@MarkBuffalo oh many rounds of negotiation
good
So you're moving to Scotlandia?
@schroeder YEEEES GOOD
20:04
brb
20:54
I have returned
@JukEboX wb
sweet
got high praise for getting stuff done quick
Thanks
Thiking about doing some web coding a bit right now
@JukEboX How's the wife and kid?
Still just a wife with a kid in her
21:02
Soon she will be a wife with a kid out of her!
And in just a couple years, you can start the sword fights
My daughter is 2, we have sword fights with foam swords, pirate hats, etc. She loves it lol
Hahahhha Awsome. I want to get her a power wheel like I had when I as 2-3
Yup, we got her a power wheel at her first birthday
She didn't really know how to use it... but within a half a year, she became an expert
Then I am going to dip it Chameleon for her
When she's 3, we're gonna get her a crazy Cadillac Barbielade powerwheel or something
so she can take her brother for a ride lol
I had this one
Nice
We got her a barbie ATV
Yeah
I think the ATV is kind of a cop out
They pretty much just made a small quad
21:08
That one looks better. Much better
Yeah! THen dip it an awesome color
Purple is my favorite color
Like this
Is it her favorit color?
IT IS NOW I'VE MADE IT HERS
going home
Stick here for another 3.5 hours :/
21:36
ugh my brain is trying to kill me
@DavidFreitag oh no! It knows!
@schroeder Yeah I gotta kill it before it kills me. Where's that bottle of drain cleaner?
@schroeder You do realize if you go to Scotland you will have to change your name to Rory, right? ;)
It's the law.
@diagprov migraine?
@diagprov yeah, the forms are a pain but it’s gaein be awricht ance the pain has gane awa.’
21:48
@schroeder Where are you coming from country wise if you don't mind me asking? (I'm a Brit of the English sort and live in Switzerland so I have some experience with immigration:) )
@diagprov Canada
the good coast
where the trees are already budding
@schroeder Ahhhhh y'know as my alter ego Rhino we might have discussed this previously. Don't you have to pay like £bazillion for the NHS surcharge
@diagprov YES
@schroeder West? Gulps... :)
omg
3K GBP for the privilege to pay the NHS tax
21:50
I went to Vancouver on holiday once and hired a campervan and went all over BC and AB.
@diagprov it wouldn't be so bad if you were pre-paying the NHS, but nope
@DavidFreitag Mine did that yesterday
@schroeder No your salary will still be taxed to pay for the NHS.
Where is @RоryMcCune when there are lovely starable lines to add to the starwall story
@diagprov yep
21:54
Enjoy. Luckily though if you ever need anything you won't get a bill.
Well, excluding the dentist, optician and anything not covered by the NHS.
@diagprov I'm Canadian - I get that now
@diagprov If you can prove you're a pregnant woman, you get free dental
@Matthew well, maybe in the right light .....
@schroeder Oh really? I somehow thought it would be like the US.
@schroeder Apparently, pizza babies don't count...
21:56
@Matthew I... I'm not sure I could pull this off
@diagprov $75/mo and I can jump off a building, get a totally reconstructed body, and never see a bill
@schroeder Wow. Well in Switzerland health insurance starts at around 250 CHF /month. That probably means the first 2500CHF of any health costs are yours to pay entirely and only then does the insurance pay.
@schroeder I can jump off a building, and not see a bill. I only get basic parts in my cybernetic body though...
If I jumped off a building I would be put back together. Then the next month I would get the largest bill you have ever seen.
@schroeder If I want the good parts, I have to go private
21:59
However, in fairness, it would be a good service and the insurance company would pay most of it.
@Matthew true in most contexts ....
@schroeder Here I'd just pay a max of $4000 for that.
In an entire year
@schroeder ah well, congrats in any case :) Welcome to the UK.
Great. Another stiff-assed brit.
;)
@MarkBuffalo It's old, but all I have to say is... britainandamerica.typepad.com/britain_and_america/2007/06/…
22:08
@diagprov Last time you tried that, the sun set on the british empire ;)
Now the UK is our poodle/lapdog
@MarkBuffalo Yes, the "special relationship" was fuel for comedians for years.
Canada is our hat. I rather enjoy our hat.
@MarkBuffalo how do you know the consistency of my ass?
@MarkBuffalo Not our fault. France are responsible.
@schroeder Actually, there is a real correlation between the look on your face, and the tightness of your buttocks.
22:13
@MarkBuffalo we keep all those pesky Russian missiles from dribbling down your chin
@schroeder Isn't that Alaska?
@schroeder Haha, and I thank you for that.
I like I said, I rather enjoy our hat.
@Matthew that postage stamp of a icy wasteland? no it's brave Canadians
@schroeder For example, you are super skinny. By this, we can conclude that your embedded seat cushion is also properly tight.
...why am I spending so much time thinking about @schroeder's butt. SIGH
8
@MarkBuffalo to be fair, it IS magnificent
22:14
@MarkBuffalo Because you want to stroke it
@MarkBuffalo where are you getting "super skinny" from?
do not star that
@schroeder Your linkedin profile
@MarkBuffalo I'm 185 in that shot
Twig
<= 300
You guys are old! I'm only 34!
22:16
Young'un
Back in @RoryAlsop's day, we didn't have 34 year olds. Because he was the oldest man alive
@Matthew pfff, millenials ....
@schroeder AAAAAAARRRGHHHHH
MILLENIALS!!!!
It's also law that all linkedin articles contain the words "millenial" at least 6 times.
"How to deal with Millenials in the workplace"
"How Millenials are changing purchasing habits"
That's why I don't bother with that crap
"Do Millenials cause Cancer?" Oh no wait that's the Daily Mail.
I don't even have everything listed on my linkedin. No descriptions or nothing
22:20
@diagprov lol - the Millenial chapter is the most commented section of my book
@diagprov luls
"oh, so THAT'S how we can reach Millenials"
"I had no idea that they were people!"
Anyone would think these so called millenials, of which I am one, are entirely different in their world view, speak a foreign language and require a whole new field of management to deal with.
"but I like tossing a phone in the middle of the room with an un-read Facebook notification and watch them fight to grab the phone"
@diagprov Which is true?
22:24
@MarkBuffalo ... he was being sarcastic ...
or ironic
I can't tell anymore
pfff millenials
THIS IS THE DMZ, IT'S PROBABLY A EUPHEMISM
Yep sorry being ironic. Funnily enough millenials are also people and they would like things like "food to eat" and "somewhere to live" and to "have fulfilling work"
pfff "fulfilling work"
Everyone wants that
in MY day, you were just grateful you had work
22:27
Well OK replace it with whatever stage of Maslow's Hierarchy you are on.
@MarkBuffalo Exactly
but not according to LinkedIn
Hey, I'm Gen-X!
@Matthew Oh man hold on need to consult the notes on how to communicate with and handle Gen-X people...
A little on topic here, but...
because obviously entire generations is a good generalization </sarcasm>
you know what bothers me about the infosec field?
22:31
@diagprov Unless you're pre-1965, you're same gen...
Too many people expect you to fit into a really small set of parameters
without realizing the big picture
This has been my experience at least
@Matthew Hey wait am I? I'm 27 so I think I count as a Millenial.
I never really know what the different Gen-X Gen-Ys are supposed to be.
@diagprov You're millenial then!
Not much thinking outside the box/toolchain
@Matthew Yeah, I thought I was. All the linkedin articles bemoaning entitled millenials... well that's me! I'm ENTITLED DAMMIT!
22:35
Baby boomers - 1946-1964. Gen-X - 1965-1981. Millenial - 1982-2000 ish. Children - after that
2000+ "God help us all"
TIL I'm a millenial
@MarkBuffalo pssst - we already knew ....
I'm kind of guessing no-one here is pre 1946. Except @RoryAlsop of course
22:39
pls, @RoryAlsop is B.C.
sigh. found another remote code execution vulnerability
So something odd with our Server 20008 R2 Hyper-V
@DavidFreitag explain
@MarkBuffalo It says it has 102GB for "Hardware reserved" in the resource manager
We just installed 96GB of ram
Adi
Adi
@RоryMcCune I gave this vuln. about 30 hours of ROPing
I'm pretty sure I've reached the edge of my abilities there
I gave up on it this morning
23:07
Wow fucking microsoft
Limited Server 2008 r2 to 32 GB of ram
@diagprov s/millenials/lizard people and it allll makes sense
??
@DavidFreitag that isn't true my server is running 48GB and using it all
The server that's responsible for running the entire company can only use twice as much memory as my single computer
Ohhhh STANDARD edition
@JukEboX We have 132GB installed and only 32GB is usable. The rest says "Hardware Reserved"
@JukEboX Yeah so now we need to look into getting an enterprise license which is annoying as shit
23:10
Yeah I hear that man that sucks
So we just spent $800 on nothing
Thanks M$
@Adi Remind me again what ROP stands for?
@Ohnana Can confirm I am a lizard person :)
CRAB PEOPLE CRAB PEOPLE!
Look like crab talk like people!
@diagprov lOL :P
@DavidFreitag Return-Oriented Programming. Basically you can't write code to the stack so instead you write a bunch of addresses and ret. Also called ret2libc for when you could direct call library functions by prepping the stack. Can't do that on x64 since the calling convention is rdi rsi rdx rcx r8 r9 on unix, THEN the stack. So you need to prep those registers first.
@diagprov Ahh I see.
23:20
@diagprov I have no idea what you just said
Dude I have the worst headache ever right now
@DavidFreitag got take a nap and some advil
*----------vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv‌​vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv c vfg ,8 vvvvvvv
@MarkBuffalo Ohhh shit we all just got haxxored
Knew I should have thrown away that AOL CD
23:21
I just woke up from a brief nap, and
there were women's clothes all over me.
Ok so. In the basic stack overflow exploit, you dump your shell code in the stack somewhere. When the function where the overflow happened ends, you hit ret, and since you've overwritten this in your code you direct execution to the stack. Plus or minus some minor details.
babies stacked clothes all over me... and my wife took pictures
@MarkBuffalo Yeaaaaaah suuuuure that's how they got on you.
In a modern system with "DEP" or NX-bit, that stack area is marked non-executable as a page privilege. If EIP/RIP ends up there the processor goes mental and fires the "moan at the kernel someone done bad stuff!!!" interrupt.
The kernel then kills the process.
No exploit.
But what if we had some executable code already in the address space that did what we want?
Or, multiple bits that we can chain together.
23:23
Well, we still control the stack thanks to excellent use of memcpy or gets or whatever.
So, plus or minus lots of details, we still control what happens. We just have to build it out of stuff already marked executable.
Everyone has a plan until they get ROP'd in the mouth, really.
ASLR is supposed to make this harder because, even if you know the version of say libc you're likely to find, you don't know where it is. So sure, you can control the flow, but you don't know where you want to go because you don't know where the bit of assembly or whatever you want is.
@MarkBuffalo Good thing I'm fresh out of monies
@DavidFreitag Even if you had money, why would you be tempted to pay a male prostitute? OOooohh... never mind. I understand now.
23:35
@MarkBuffalo Well if I close my eyes...
It's only prostitution if the wallets touch.
I'm paying for their time, not the various sex acts.
Suuuuuuuuuuuure you aren't
@MarkBuffalo what do you mean? (I'm just curious, I am not actually in infosec)
@diagprov For example, if you haven't memorized NIST standards, people expect that you don't actually know anything about information security
even though you probably know them by heart through years of experience
Or if you haven't memorized all of the acronyms / terminology
23:41
@MarkBuffalo Ah. I don't have that problem anyway I'm a developer so I know NOTHING about infosec! NOTHING!!!
Oh jeez I might be in trouble. I got paid today :P
@JukEboX Trouble because the wife will swoop down on you?
@MarkBuffalo is that a euphemism?
@kalina YOU SWOOPED DOWN ON ME
And no, not a euphemism!
Remember, I don't even know how to be a euphemismimisism
pls it would take more than the second coming of christ for me to go down on you
3
23:42
@diagprov I don't have the vocabulary/terminology in nearly anything I do, but I know exactly what to do.
@kalina No, I mean like.. descend on someone like locust swarm and strip their money bare.
Women are known to do that.
are they really
so women are like swarms of locusts
uh oh
Swarms of locusts that DEVOUR your money
Beautiful, lovely, precious swarms of locusts. But swarms nonetheless.
eugh it's a good job we don't flag in here
@MarkBuffalo she is having a ladies day with her best friend today
23:44
0
Q: Successfully perform MITM attack in OCSP authenticated network

imaibouI was trying earlier to make a MITM attack using both ettercap and arpspoof, but neither of them worked. I am connected to the internet from my dorm-room, we have a shared wifi connection, where OCSP authentication is used (network sign-on is required via HTTP). When I do the MITM attack, the vi...

@JukEboX hardly they're all drunk
I'm just being me and hiding in the corner
yay social life
@kalina when was the last time you swooped?
I thought I knew about OCSP, but apparently, it's a user authentication process now?
@kalina she is 9 months pregnant I doubt she is drunk :)
@JukEboX swooped?
like a swarm of locusts to eat all of a guy's money?
never
23:46
@kalina Not eat it, spend it.
eat, spend, same difference in context
@kalina
No way, you eat with your face and spend with your wallet, duh
@DavidFreitag no she eats with her wallet and spends with her face
I give all my money to my wife
23:47
@JukEboX Woah... I really don't understand females... :o
don't mind it
I must be passively intoxicated from the fumes or something because you're making even less sense than usual
she deserves it
@kalina No I think it's all the drain cleaner I just chugged
@kalina I am stuck at work fro another 45 minutes. I am pretty sure I have gone quite mad
23:50
wtf
eclipse uninstalled itself
@MarkBuffalo It's been known to do that.
Horrray my wife is getting me Olive Garden for dinner :P
@MarkBuffalo She da best. I am getting Olive garden and your kids turned you into Clothes Garden
I'm ordering Chinese. Then I'm having diner. Dunno what yet
@DavidFreitag I would like my wife to cook you actual Chinese some day
not that horrific trash you get from "restaurants"
@DavidFreitag you're having a diner?
that's like an entire building?
23:52
@MarkBuffalo I have what I like to call an "Unsophisticated pallet"
@DavidFreitag As do I. I'm sure we can change that for you, though
@kalina No, I'm having diner. Not a diner.
dinner?
@MarkBuffalo No, because then I'd have to pay for good food
@kalina No, diner. They're usually building shaped.
I'm not understanding you at all
23:54
hahahha @kalina
Again, drain cleaner.
@kalina he has a headache. He maybe not thinking clearly. He must have broke fast this morning instead of having Breakfast
@DavidFreitag there is a place in Milford that makes a Bacon Chimney. That is a building shaped Brinner
Although if your in the Griffin house it is anarchy
@JukEboX Bacon chimney?

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