The DMZ

Ohnana

00:00

i dunno, i just don't get it.

hell, even wikipedia has licensing for it -- you have to cite it in all usages

we're just a really interactive form of wikipedia -- and our content deserves to be protected, at least a little bit

Mark Buffalo

I rarely use any code found anywhere online

but this is stupid

TildalWave

to me, main points are that 1) you can't make blanket assumptions that equally apply across whole SE, 2) it's unclear what exactly is proposed which creates all the needless drama, 3) it's unclear what happens with old posts posted under different license, 4) SE is going about it like there's some external pressure (I guess those $40 mill didn't come for free) and can't decide if they wanna explode or implode

Ohnana

@TildalWave well, for 3 they said it will be applied to all content after X date

very simple

2 is also confusing

and they made have had a hair-raising encounter that's made them realize 4

TildalWave

so I post something here and now under one license (cc by sa attribution required), then the blanket replace that with MIT (now also with attribution required) and my post is now under different license?

I don't get it

why do we actually have licenses then?

Ohnana

@TildalWave ...what

can you rephrase that

TildalWave

00:05

2 mins ago, by Ohnana

@TildalWave well, for 3 they said it will be applied to all content after X date

> all content

or did you mean all new content?

Ohnana

all content created after X date

TildalWave

gotcha

Ohnana

aka, yesterday's stuff is under the old license, tomorrow's the turning point

TildalWave

I got so confused I forgot what I read LOL

Ohnana

this is how i feel digging through this meta

TildalWave

00:06

TL;DR why is this even on the table?

Mark Buffalo

They aren't going to change their mind?

Ohnana

licenses are helpful

Mark Buffalo

A new site will pop up to overtake SE =D

TildalWave

@Ohnana we have a license

cc by sa

Ohnana

@TildalWave apparently people are bad at applying that to code

TildalWave

00:07

> user contributions licensed under cc by-sa 3.0 with attribution required

Ohnana

and cc by sa / MIT are very, very similar

TildalWave

@Ohnana and they will be better at applying a new license?

Ohnana

except MIT is very comparable with other code licensing, AND it was designed for code, AND it's the most popular and permissive code license

Thomas Pornin

I don't require attribution for any copy of whatever I post. My glory shines regardless of whether worshippers grovel or not.

TildalWave

hear hear

Ohnana

00:16

it's also interesting to note that a code license gives employers a reason to formally discipline a worker for plagirism

Mark Buffalo

good luck retaining employees who used a simple function off stack exchange

if you discipline them for using one

Ohnana

@MarkBuffalo i mean for extreme cases

TildalWave

c'mon let's be honest, most stuff that's a correctly functional code would be difficult to write any different

Mark Buffalo

I don't see how it's possible to extreme-case SE

Ohnana

just remember that the people who post "codes PLZZZZZ" questions have to work for someone

Mark Buffalo

00:23

lol

TildalWave

where do you start accepting differences in simple code snippets as "this code is not the same"? do you start counting indentation tabs and spaces? look for different variable names? I mean 1+1=2, is 2+0 a plagiarized 1+1?

it gets all levels of ridiculous from then on

like Ciscodiculous

Thomas Pornin

@TildalWave This sounds like the name of a dinosaur.

Ohnana

that's already been sorted for literary plagirism, it's about percentages of difference and specialization

TildalWave

OK so if I take some code, replace every division by 2 with a bit shift or vice versa, is that "sorted" then?

Ohnana

depends on how specialized it is

if it's a long, elaborate assembly program, then you have reason to be suspicious

TildalWave

00:30

you know as well as I do that 99% of all code is not specialized

Ohnana

that's very true, which is why plagrism is more about large chunks and libraries

TildalWave

@Ohnana and what's the chance that you'll see that posted here if it's otherwise a subject to restricted use?

Ohnana

i dunno, there are lots of SE users with too much time on their hands

:)

Mark Buffalo

<===============

Ohnana

cough cough ursine overlord

wait equine is horses

what's a bear again?

Mark Buffalo

00:32

Porcine

TildalWave

ursine?

Mark Buffalo

No, porcine.

Just kidding, @ThomasPornin. You aren't a pig.

Ohnana

@MarkBuffalo r00d

Mark Buffalo

...or are you

Thomas Pornin

@MarkBuffalo Yet "pornin" sounds like "porc nain", i.e. "dwarf pig" in French.

2

Mark Buffalo

00:33

Thomas the Dwarf Pig

lmfao

Thomas Pornin

My comrades in elementary school pointed it out repeatedly.

Mark Buffalo

I... I'm sorry.

Ohnana

stop traumatizing pornin dammit, someone's got to chew through ssl

Mark Buffalo

01:59

Coconut potato ice cream

...this tastes like the smell of watermelon that's been left to rot over an entire summer inside a hot kayak, and you open it and smell the raunchiest corn known to mankind

Mark Buffalo

03:20

@Simon Any chance you're online? A Mong requires your assistance.

David Freitag

03:43

@Ohnana Thanks for your help.

My dinner was... fantastical.

Mark Buffalo

Share your tales of valor

David Freitag

I mean, I don't want to toot my own horn but... honk honk. HOOOOOOOOONK. honk.

Mark Buffalo

Nice.

I finally got time to work on the front-end

It's almost done, but it's really complicated because of regex

Lucas Kauffman

@MarkBuffalo 2b|!2b

Mark Buffalo

the only issue is... wow, PhpStorm sucks

David Freitag

03:45

@MarkBuffalo hwat

Mark Buffalo

so I'm using notepad++ because I'm leet like that

David Freitag

I thought you were doing a WinForms frontend?

Mark Buffalo

huh?

PHP/MySQL

David Freitag

Eh?

Mark Buffalo

I can do winforms after

I'll probably do that

David Freitag

03:47

?

damn I missed the second one

Mark Buffalo

php storm is ass

David Freitag

( ͡↑ ͜ʖ ͡↑)

Mark Buffalo

When I delete something, I want it gone

I don't want it hanging around with no error message

David Freitag

@MarkBuffalo s/ storm//

Ohnana

@DavidFreitag hell yeah son

delicious food for all

David Freitag

04:00

Also, after cooking for 9 hours and 46 minutes, the gravy was a completely different consistency.

Ohnana

yeah apparently flour does science stuff with the fats in it

i dunno, shit tastes good right?

David Freitag

I learned 2 things, I need to buy tongs and I need to put more veggies in next time. Definitely potatoes

Mark Buffalo

@Ohnana My wife just tried that tonight. Baking soda instead of flour.

I hope I don't die.

Ohnana

@MarkBuffalo hmm

that might get... interesting

youwon't die

report back?

@DavidFreitag beware, cooking potatoes for 4-5 hrs is how you get mashed potatoes

David Freitag

@Ohnana That.... makes sense. Maybe I'll boil them separately...

Ohnana

04:04

add them part-way through

maybe 2 hrs?

David Freitag

Not really an option on a weekday

Ohnana

aaah yeah, that's something for boiling then

David Freitag

Should only take a half hour to peel and boil a few potatoes

Mark Buffalo

fuck it's 11 pm

I'm not done coding

David Freitag

04:35

damn the razer site is crashing and burning

@MarkBuffalo So... you enjoyed it...?

Mark Buffalo

04:50

yeah, I'm almost done

I made a critical dumb error in a few functions. gotta fixor

1

Q: How to type a password in front of so many people?

In an office, I need to open emails for jobs as I am manager. My company does not provide company email, so I use my personal email. My general manager will send me jobs list into my mail. I need to login email in front of my co-managers, how? My email service is end to end encryption, which mea...

authentication

lmfao

StackExchange

05:09

I always have to turn off nature documentaries when they show these scenes.

Lucas Kauffman

06:48

the whole refugee harassing women problem is escalating in Belgium it seems

Rоry McCune

08:51

Mornin' All

AviD

@Gilles exactly, XSS has nothing to do with privilege escalation (at least user/server). Which is why both those comments were completely irrelevant.

@RоryMcCune indeed it is.

Rоry McCune

@AviD here, we have snow.. hows about you :)

Matthew

Morning

AviD

here we have sun

@Matthew ah well if it isn't @Simon's bot ;-)

while we're talking about @Simon... plans for the weekend?

https://t.co/Q4hi8ujEWU

Tweeted by RedPhantomKyoko on January 14, 2016 at 4:21 AM

Matthew

I think I will take it as a positive thing that I pass a reverse Turing test

AviD

08:55

hey @RоryMcCune you submit a proposal for AppSecEU?

today is the last day...

Rоry McCune

@AviD indeed I did :)

My talk is on..... (and I know this will come as a surprise to you)... Docker !

AviD

havent decided yet, I would love to go - but I need to find somebody to fund airfare. Dont wanna get stuck being accepted but not have how to get there....

also, I'm not sure I have any good topics right now... :-(

@RоryMcCune heh awesome!

Rоry McCune

@AviD what are airfares like to Rome?

AviD

@RоryMcCune probably like a thousand usd, or so... maybe more

Rоry McCune

@AviD I did it at our internal Con and it went down quite well (I think) so will just need updating/tweaking if I get accepted

@AviD ouch! you need to get yourselves some low-cost airlines

AviD

08:57

@RоryMcCune that IS the low cost...

actually no I'm wrong, that is the price to UK, I'm sure Rome is cheaper.

yeah I think I can get there for about half that.

I dont travel often enough (and usually not on the same airline) to have enough FF miles to use...

Rоry McCune

@AviD if I went low cost from prestwick (near glasgow) to rome it'd be £100/return or thereabouts

AviD

@RоryMcCune wow, thats like a steak dinner.

I would probably be paying more than that in cab fare to the airport.

Rоry McCune

@AviD that's the delights of Ryanair, they ain't necessarily a nice flying experience, but they are cheap

AviD

huh. If I compromise on timing, I could probably get flights even cheaper. sub-400$ range... that, I might be able to do.

Rоry McCune

that said I can fly KLM via amsterdam and it's only £159

AviD

09:02

fine then! Now I just need a good topic!

I dont think many people would be interested in hearing about 4GL...

Rоry McCune

@AviD what about running 4GLs in Docker?

AviD

hmm... maybe I'll go for deploying static analysis in dev orgs, and get Cx to foot the bill...

@RоryMcCune LOL

Matthew

What about APT threats to running 4GLs in Docker?

Rоry McCune

@AviD that said you've been doing some other stuff haven't you?

AviD

@RоryMcCune hmm yeah but nothing I think is very interesting to share.

dammit, what HAVE I been doing all goddam year??

Rоry McCune

09:05

@Matthew ooh APT threats to 4GL based IOT devices running in the cloud on docker

@AviD weren't you doing some research stuff about static analysis the other day (I'm sure you asked @Simon a PHP question)

Matthew

@AviD Well, so far, I'm guessing 1 day was written off due to it being the 1st Jan, 4 days were weekends, and I don't know what you did with the other 10, but it could have been normal work type stuff...

AviD

@RоryMcCune indeed. and that stuff is very interesting - but most of it is NDA, and the rest is probably covered by Cx guys themselves

@Matthew heh. Though here jan 1 is not a holiday...

Rоry McCune

@AviD well unless Cx are presenting on that topic at AppSec you could still cover something related to it I'd guess

AviD

on the other hand it WAS friday, so thats off anyway.

@RоryMcCune still, mostly the nda bit. Oh and vendor-specific...

Rоry McCune

darn

AviD

09:08

okay new resolution for 2016 - I decide to take projects based solely on conf-talk-worthiness...

really though, I might decide to go anyway, even without a talk - free tickets and all that...

Matthew

At one point, I was going to conferences based on the potential swag...

Best technical related swag: bluetooth headset, back when they cost about £100

Best swag overall: £1000 of power tools

Rоry McCune

that's good swag. I'm generally happy if I get a nice hoodie when I'm speaking!

Matthew

The power tools were at Screwfix Live. Good power tools too!

AviD

I got stopped once after a conf by airport security. "Excuse me sir, your suitcase seems to be full of stuff"

mazdark

09:48

hi all

stuff is dangerous of course. you can do Things with it!

Rory Alsop

11:20

We now have 80 more pixels to play with on community promotion ads. Anyone fancy looking at, and then updating 2016 ads (can always base them off the 2015 ones)?

0

Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2016

It's 2016 now, and we've made some changes to the sidebar size. As such, we can now restart the Community Promotion Ads for 2016! Keep in mind, we have updated some of the guidelines compared to previously - the changes are marked in bold in the Image Requirements section. What are Community Pr...

discussion community-ads

10

Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2015

The dawn of a new year, 2015, now approaches, or has already approached, either way it means that it is now time to reset our Community Promotion Ads! What are Community Promotion Ads? Community Promotion Ads are community-vetted advertisements that will show up on the main site, in the right s...

discussion community-ads

AviD

11:43

@RоryMcCune so after giving it some thought, I actually do have a handful of relevant topics to talk about, but most of them I would need to prepare the presentation (dont have it yet, but should make it anyway...). Now I have to decide which ones are best...

dont think I want to submit more than 2 proposals...

Rоry McCune

@AviD yay, well if you submit one today, you have like 5 months to actually write it!

AviD

yeah!

but which one should I do??

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop and any other UK'ies if you're thinking about going to Securi-Tay tickets are up at 12

AviD

@RоryMcCune how many do you think is too much?

Adi

11:59

I'm cataloging a list misogynistic bullshit women put up with in tech. Reply with yours!

Tweeted by girlziplocked on February 19, 2015 at 7:46 PM

What the hell did you make me see, @Avi?!

AviD

@Adi hahah I know, right??

but you can thank @SwiftOnSecurity for that one.

Adi

🚻 being casually excluded from career-building networking/social events because guys uncritically default to making male-male friendships

Tweeted by girlziplocked on February 19, 2015 at 7:53 PM in reply to girlziplocked

AKA "Why aren't you my friend?!! WAAAAAAA"

🚮 the bait and switch - where women are hired to do one job, but are expected to do one she's overqualified for once in the office.

Tweeted by girlziplocked on February 19, 2015 at 7:51 PM in reply to girlziplocked

AKA "What happens to both women AND men in shitty companies"

AviD

@Adi ya know - that one never made sense to me. I dont prefer male/male relationships, and I find the ones that do are usually too broindead to be fun anyway.

@Adi yes, but it does happen a lot more to women, and specifically in swapping them into "women" jobs.

Adi

@AviD Don't buy it. If you work as a secretary, then it's probably because that's what you're good at and that's what you can do

same goes for working as a janitor

AviD

@Adi also, its not just about being friends, its about being excluded from social work events. Not just women - happens to me often too, e.g. going to a non-kosher restaurant, having an event on sabbath/holidays, etc. But I'm sure that its more common genderwise.

@Adi you sound like @Simon.

Adi

12:04

@AviD I don't buy that you're hired (as a female) as a software dev and then you're switched to being a secretary

AviD

@Adi if you get hired as director of marketing, then swapped into the CEO's administrative assistant - that has nothing to do with "what you're good at", it has to do with "what you're willing to put up with".

true story.

@Adi probably not that egregiously, but it does happen a ton.

for instance, a brilliant software dev, hired as a female dev, and after she quit her old job and started her new one - "oh can you just do QA for a bit, just for a while to learn the ropes, only ~~a couple of days~~ ~~a few weeks~~ ~~a month or two~~ oh btw this is your permanent job now, we hired a real dev while you were doing QA."

true story.

Rоry McCune

@Adi unless you work for the Pub landlord of course...

Secretary by Al Murray The Pub Landlord - Live at the Apollo Hamersmith

►

AviD

@RоryMcCune people like that exist for real. Not all of them make jokes out of themselves on stage.

TheJulyPlot

Good Morning all!

Rоry McCune

@AviD well the pub landlord is of course a character of the very intelligent Mr Al Murray

he does it well tho'

Simon

12:30

@AviD I'm starting to wonder if you're the leader of some feminist group now.

@MarkBuffalo wot

AviD

@Simon naw, I'm not the leader, I'm the administrative assistant.

My wife is a feminist... because I TOLD her to be!

Simon

@AviD So they've given you the "girl" job?

You got rekt son, they're being the asshole men to you.

AviD

Actually that's not true, I insisted that she has to be a feminist, and... she refused :-(

@Simon heh

Simon

That's my issue with extremist feminism, they want men to be at a worst state than women's are right now.

Matthew

Just treat everyone the same. If you are an arse to men, should be an arse to women too. If you are an arse to one religion, should be an arse to other religions too. Be consistent, damnit

Rоry McCune

12:34

interesting, I see Trustwave are getting sued for allegedly failing to clear up a breach properly...

AviD

@Simon no no, extremist feminism want men to have the same situation as women have had. Which is a scary thought.

Simon

@Matthew I'm an asshole to everyone regardless of their gender.

3

AviD

anyone want to post that webcomic again...

mazdark

hmm don't you think the remedy about this stuf is worse than the problem itself?

Simon

@AviD No, a much worst situation.

AviD

12:34

@Matthew or better yet, dont be an arse at all.

@RоryMcCune glad I decided not to go there

mazdark

well, i'm for equality of course, but trying to force mentalities to change isn't that a bit clumsy?

Rоry McCune

@AviD well it'll be very interesting to see how this kind of thing plays out....

Matthew

@AviD I've reached a point where I think that for a lot of people, being an arse is the default state. I try to avoid it myself

Simon

@Matthew Ya. I wake up in the morning and I'm like "FUCK YOU WORLD" then my donut is mad because I woke her up :(

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune - yep, buying now. Unfortunately I'm talking at a conf in London on the Friday but hopefully will be able to attend the Saturday

Rоry McCune

12:38

@RoryAlsop I'm holding off buying for now as I may end up a speaker or get a ticket from $employer

Simon

17

A: How to type a password in front of so many people?

Use the blanket of security, as seen in the Snowden documentary Citizenfour. It involves placing a blanket over your head, the keyboard and monitor and typing in the password. It will look weird but for security's sake it may be worth it. Related post with demo pic - In CitizenFour, What Was Sn...

I'd rather get my password stolen.

Rоry McCune

^but that's such a cool look

Mark Buffalo

ropfl

Simon

@RоryMcCune Instant pink-drowning.

Mark Buffalo

@Simon I just pickedup PHP again after several years

and I struggled a bit

Simon

12:41

@MarkBuffalo On what?

Mark Buffalo

Just stupid stuff, and I fixed it

Simon

lulz

Mark Buffalo

Right now I'm trying to dynamically bind parameters to sql

Simon

Are you using PDO?

Mark Buffalo

MySQL

I tried PDO, but it was unsupported by my web host

Simon

12:43

wot

Lamia

@Simon gizmag.com/stealth-computer-display-lcd-polarizing-glasses/… I would do thaat

Simon

PDO = PHP Data Object

Ah you mean your version of PHP isn't recent?

@Lamia That's nurdy as hell.

Lamia

Wont just hide his password

how to prevernt my co-workers from wearing polarized sunglasses to read my password

AviD

@MarkBuffalo well of course stupid stuff, you said it was php

Simon

@AviD Every time you say something mean about PHP, I'll do the same about women, alright?

AviD

12:50

@Simon not the same thing.

Simon

OF COURSE IT'S NOT THE SAME THING EH

Caps were not necessary, I'm sorry.

AviD

you are free to mock specific women that choose to do something stupid

Simon

I'm not really sorry but you know.

AviD

like choosing to use php

Simon

lulz

The only type of women I've got a problem with are the attention seekers.

Mark Buffalo

12:56

@Simon I believe this is the case. I'll check it out later, though. What I need is an array object in the parameters... and it needs to be size-agnostic

so it could have 1 parameter, 2, 3, 4, or 5

I have a ghetto hard-coded version, but it breaks after I use a specific format... I could hard-code that, but it's not efficient, and it's ugly

Simon

@MarkBuffalo Check out the masterclass I made then: github.com/Pittoreski/CDBSQL/blob/master/CDBSQL.php

Line 48 the query function.

Mark Buffalo

Nice. QUestion, though. Why @$variable and not pass by reference?

I've actually never seen @$variable... assuming it's global?

Simon

@ means ignore any errors or output IIRC

Mark Buffalo

ah

Simon

"When prepended to an expression in PHP, any error messages that might be generated by that expression will be ignored."

Rory Alsop

12:59

Folks in or near New York (@DavidFreitag?) - I'm taking my wife over to NY end of April for 5 days. Planning on visiting Stack Exchange, but would be good to meet any DMZizens. Anyone likely to be able to meet for beer/food?

Simon

As for the reference, sure, that'd work too.

AviD

@RoryAlsop very cool!

Simon

You'd use the & operator.

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