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3 hours later…
07:07
Morning!
07:28
is it? is it, really?
07:41
@AviD It really is morning.
@M'vy Morning!
it is morning, yes
morning
:)
08:19
Morning All
morning @Rоry
09:05
Good weekend all?
tiring
@kalina a lot of travel?
I achieved the triple D trifecta
domination, dancing and drama
@kalina you're lucky none of the more scurrilous members of the room are here at the moment
@kalina you played a theatre club?
that would have made sense
no, I played to a large crowd and won
I danced for many hours
and then I crashed back down to earth with real life drama all sunday
09:11
that sounded good fun till the last bit
@kalina the Dancing-Drama-dominatrix-queen :)
Seems like you're living a sawtooth-wave kind of life.
the drop was pretty harsh
@RоryMcCune I am, actually...
so I'm currently in another country and it's colder than I like and the people are all British which is a massive downside
@kalina Ahh - Scotland. Welcome.
09:18
-.-
@RoryAlsop and you didn't make a scurrilous comment about @kalina 's line.. pls @Simon or @AviD would not have let that uncommented
In things that amused me this morning
Ken Allen (1971–2000) was the name given to a Bornean orangutan at the San Diego Zoo. He became one of the most popular animals in the history of the San Diego Zoo because of his many successful escapes from his enclosures. He was nicknamed "the hairy Houdini". Ken Allen was born in captivity at the San Diego Zoo in 1971. During the 1980s, Ken Allen gained worldwide attention for a series of three escapes from his enclosure, which had been thought to be escape-proof. Ken Allen's ability to outwit his keepers, as well as his docile demeanor during his escapes, resulted in fame. He had his own fan...
@kalina and they use weird money too
^^ cc @RoryAlsop @LucasKauffman
@RоryMcCune hahahahahahahaha
@M'vy I have a past familiarity with their currency
09:22
@RоryMcCune @Kalina will know by now that I don't need to say all the things that run through my head
@RoryAlsop you have a more effective filter than @AviD for sure.. but then so do most 5 year olds :op
@RоryMcCune lol
I'm guessing the tigger is swamped with AppSecIL stuff and therefore I'll get away with that one
pls as if I'd talk about my breasts on the internet
eugh I'm just going to sleep more
or coffee
mmmm coffee
09:23
or both
@kalina or both
...
actually this bed is not comfy enough to continue sleeping, I'm going to go snark the requirement for me to be here away
@kalina this may be a sad indication of my mind, but I hadn't spotted that lin at all, it was the domination, dancing and drama line I was trying to pretend I found scurrilous
Dear M'vy, your registration for Ninja training has been rejected. Please try again in the future.
@M'vy s/you're/your
ninja training reaccepted
09:25
@RoryAlsop Yeah I saw that :)
lol
right - off to the airport again
another trip to London for me
@RoryAlsop yeah I spend too much time on the Internet, the line that I thought could be mis-interpreted had a way dodgier interpretation than that. I shall maintain my reputation as "the good rory" by not mentioning it
@RoryAlsop right, I forgot how much you like dominating people
@RoryAlsop ugh :( I "hopefully" dodged a trip to Nottingham this week, although it may yet re-emerge
@RоryMcCune you don't have a reputation of being "the good rory"
09:26
@kalina I don't? howcome?
@RоryMcCune that's a shame
@RоryMcCune Nottingham is okay. I know some good folks that run a rock club there :-)
@RоryMcCune if you have that reputation, I am literally a living breathing angel
@kalina we knew that anyway :-P
@RoryAlsop yeah but when you get a call on Friday at 16:00 about a rush job on-site, that's rarely going to be fun
@kalina phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbttttttttttttt
09:28
@RоryMcCune true - I was just trying to soften the blow
@RoryAlsop ta may yet be needed if I end up there next week
I'm even packing a tie for this trip to London
it's fine, I'm definitely going home today
crazy, right?
so I don't have to tolerate the midlands of the borderlands
which would have definitely been less tolerable with a rory present
09:29
@RoryAlsop hey I wore a tie to Edinburgh the other day, precisely till the W&G people left and then I removed it :)
@kalina hey! we Rories always make things more tolerable...
@RоryMcCune hahaha - were they wearing ties? And was it the usual suspects?
@RоryMcCune aye, very tolerant, us Rories
@RoryAlsop the PM was, IIRC Jim wasn't everyone else was on the phone
@RоryMcCune just the 3 of you on site? Apologies I wasn't there - I'd have made time for coffee/lunch
@RoryAlsop that was the day you were Londoning
it's a lie, he was avoiding you
09:31
right - shutting down this machine now. Off to EDI. Will be on mobile later - so be good with the transcript @kalina and @simon
:-)
@RoryAlsop o/
hardly, I'm definitely afk all day
have fun!
@kalina back off south over the channel?
sure, I'll set off like 7 hours from now or whatever and then arrive back home in time to sleep
@RоryMcCune pls, I dont know what you're talking about. Donuts.
@RоryMcCune you obviously haven't met many 5 year olds.
Actually, yeah, you're right.
09:44
@AviD A fact for which I'm quite grateful :)
@AviD so you all sorted for the Conf?
see, its not that my filter is ineffective, its that my brain is defective. I create so many things-I-should-not-say-aloud, that if even 2% slip through, that still makes me seem the most scurrilous.
@AviD so unfiltered Avi would be a bad thing...
@RоryMcCune ha! please, there are still 18 hours left.
@RоryMcCune a.very.bad.thing.
@RоryMcCune speaking of which, I had a nice power outage (large chunks of the country) a while ago.
So my computer crashed nicely. Real nice.
@AviD power cuts suck :/
lost everything I had open... especially my list of things I need to remember.
'course the worst part was I had no idea how long it would be. that freaked me out.
09:46
@AviD ohh noes, OneNote FTW
@AviD go mobile :)
luckily, I managed to send everything off to the printer, the badgers, etc shortly before
@AviD yeah we need to get some more batteries before the storms turn up this year
@RоryMcCune yeah I really should get used to using OneNote instead of notepad...
I've recently started using wunderlist on my android. I hope the add geolocation soon.
09:48
@AviD yeah it's very useful for the auto-sync alone
@M'vy I am mostly cloud based. but (a) anything I have open (b) WHICH things I have open (to remind me to deal with it) (c) synching back the right things after (d) some things still dont work in cloud....
you read it here first, @AviD exists primarily as clouds
which makes raining on people's awesome days much easier
ah yes, "raining", so much a nicer word for "standing over people and dropping liquid on them"
-.-
ice bucket challenge is so last year
@kalina I was thinking a slightly warmer fluid.
10:01
@AviD tea?
what a waste of beer
@RоryMcCune you understand that the first step would be full denial, preventing any further leaks of information
only way to win being not to take part, etc
you can't accidentally release information if you refuse to have the conversation and then immediately change the subject
in other, completely unrelated news...
completely unrelated
nevermind
@kalina ofc :) of course the denial could be seen as confirmation "Never believe anything untill it's been officially denied"
fortunately the denial could also be seen as a denial
by denying everything, you end up in a situation with a bunch of confirmed denials which have been proven as denials and a bunch of denials that haven't been confirmed but logically according to statistics will likely also be confirmed denials
@kalina ah but all information is information, even negative information
which is why you reveal completely mundane things every now and again, so that there is some information available
which has the added bonus that if there is a constant stream of mundane information then more people are less likely to pay attention to it
speaking of mundane information
"this is breakfast #foodporn"
10:12
@kalina that's a theory, for sure.. There's a good range of places in France you can fly to from East Midlands airport isn't there
actually two slices of toast
@RоryMcCune do people or clouds naturally produce tea?
mmm toast
@RоryMcCune and that's before you consider that there are even more places that you can fly to from Birmingham
@AviD they do if they're English
10:13
pffft
and let's face it, in real terms, the UK is tiny
@kalina it is a large hub airport for sure
there is absolutely nothing stopping that airport from being Manchester
plus it's feasible to drive home from here
@kalina can you get a ferry to that bit of France, or is that via the tunnel?
I'm not going to, because I really can't be fucked spending another day this week travelling
my house is so quiet, being in a house that has two babies crying nearly constantly is really making me consider starting a fire
somebody should sample the sound of crying babies and weaponize it
10:16
@kalina <shudder> that's not an environment I would enjoy
I like my quiet
new PCs are major wins in the quiet department
gaming PC under full load makes some noise but even that is so minimal
definitely better than it used to be..
loudest thing in my house now I think is the super dodgy fan in the back of my cctv dvr
which needs vacuuming like 10 times a year to keep the noise down
@kalina you could go IP webcam CCTV, then just stream to a PC :)
that's what we do for our Shed-Cam
10:37
one day
I'm slowly fixing all the things
I still need to dismantle my new pcs and paint them
I haven't decided what naming scheme I'm using this time around though
@kalina DMZ members?
er... no
I've already got @Arperum's cat named after me, I don't need to be thinking that people are thinking of me when naming their PCs
@kalina why not, it'd be funny :) "Goddam it @Simon has crashed again"
10:58
@RоryMcCune hahahahahaha
@LucasKauffman i'd be a shame if that made it onto an internal mailing list somewhere :op
@Arperum aww, so is she called @kalina or @flyk?
@RоryMcCune Pixel
@Arperum ahh an older nym. she looks comfy there
@RоryMcCune Totally is. All of that bedroom is claimed. Bed, Couch, anything.
11:05
@Arperum sounds similar to our two. One of them even seems to consider most of the village his demesne, and will go fight any other cat who he can find
@Arperum and the thing is, you can named at least 3 cats like this :)
@M'vy I wasn't specifically planning on that. There is just a cooincidence.
@Arperum ikr, but you can still do it
@M'vy I won't. And anyway. I hope my currents cats live for at least a decenium more, and at that point I'll see where I am. I'm not going to decide about names now.
Seriously Pixel is 1.3years old or someting, and Sigma is only 0.3years old.
I hate seeing the word pixel with a capital P
I chose pixel to mean small and insignificant yet extremely annoying when faulty
11:14
@kalina I'm going to use a capital P if I'm talking about my cat, not in other cases.
I guess I am forced to just .ToLower() all of your text then
@kalina or just when he says pixel
Like I'm talking about my cats all the time.
@M'vy no I'd need a constant reminder of how @Arperum made me do it
lower case i constantly will do that
@kalina :(
11:20
:p~
today is shoes indoors day
primarily because I'm not used to this much stuff being on the floor
11:59
Should I send this question to security.se?
0
Q: Protect secret key on sender

Xavier Arias BotarguesContext In our game company we're choosing between different leaderboard service providers and I'm trying to decide if using one of them with a set structure will be "safe-enough". I understand that "safe-enough" is very subjective, so I'm trying to understand the vulnerabilities of the system ...

While it's decently written, it's yet another version of "DRM doesn't work".
@CodesInChaos it's probably on-topic though. Do we have a similar question we could close this as dupe?
I don't have anything in mind yet
@CodesInChaos - I reckon so. It's not quite the same as existing ones I can find.
12:25
@RоryMcCune that would be a "career limiting move"
@LucasKauffman hmm I could go put it on my Facebook, there's at least one Partner and some directors who know him on there
done
@LucasKauffman you want me to give you credit for if it get's re-shared?
@LucasKauffman you could get some good "visibility" that way :op
I am friends with him on Facebook...
I have liked it
Lol
Dunno if that makes it show up on his feed - Facebook seems to be entirely random for me
@RоryMcCune oh god
no I'd rather not get that kind of visibility
12:33
@RoryAlsop yeah it seems a bit weird, liking sometimes turns stuff up for some people, re-sharing has a different effect, it does seem a bit random, although I'll wager there's a load of code lurking behind the scenes doing clever things
@LucasKauffman oh... okay...
Just kidding, I didn't mention you :D
@RоryMcCune I've never spoken to him, only sent like two emails and both times it was because I needed to play partner poker to get things done
What are you talking about?
Orangutans?
@CodesInChaos the orangutan linked earlier today was called "Ken Allen" which is the name of a partner at $big_4 that @RoryAlsop and I used to work for and who runs the division that @LucasKauffman belongs to
@RоryMcCune yea for information security you can't get any higher than Ken
it's rather amusing that the wikipedia link for that name goes to an Organutan rather than the senior partner type (well to people who've worked at $big_4 anyway)
12:37
He doesn't have a wikipedia page, so he can't be that important.
@LucasKauffman he's done well for himself for sure
@CodesInChaos exactly
Unless he's 'Kenneth Allen (murderer)'
@RоryMcCune you want something resharing?
@kalina heh, (un)fortunately it's a joke that only makes sense to a small number of people who work for $big_4 and perhaps some of their customers
well that was literally your one opportunity
12:39
Monkey Business
but fine I will post another cat picture to my 64.7 mil followers
@kalina phhbt there was no way you would've linked that from one of your reall A/C's
12:53
well now you'll never know, will you
@kalina yeah 'cause it was as likely as Simon's first track winning a grammy
no, you're right, I'm saving that explosion for the first time I actually lose my temper over somebody on here
so I can post a "look at this misogynist I have to tolerate on a day to day basis <link to victims real twitter> <screenshot>"
@kalina indeed, unleash the wrath of the Internet on them
that always works out well :op
what could possibly go wrong
inorite
13:01
@RоryMcCune He's got a llama farm too, so he should be a cool person
llamas are not cool
llamas are llamers
@kalina I would say the same thing if I was a jealous little pony
13:19
pls I'm at least 20% cooler than your silly llama
@kalina fortunately for you, you have hoofs and not hands.
upon arriving the DMZ becomes 20% cooler in 10 seconds flat
@LucasKauffman exactly, I'm not even scared of you
carl
one of you
leave me alone
your thing is so uncool that I already forgot it
also it's really quite a stressful life living with this kind of background noise
it's a good job I'm not a parent because I'd have killed them by now
As a matter of fact, there's no llama reference in the room topic. Interpret this as you like :)
indeed, llamas are of ftopic
that doesn't mean you need to be quiet
we don't care about on topic here
what do we care about, really?
13:34
erm
hmm
aah
ooh
.oO( ...ideas... )
making fun of @Simon?
Each to their own. @kalina cares about fire and music. I care about crypto. @LucasKauffman cares about exterminating humanity.
I think that's the only thing we all agree on
pls, I care about fire, music and exterminating humanity
and then your list is... "crypto"
is that the only thing you care about?
that's a bit of a sad existence
@kalina well at least you and @LucasKauffman have something in common then
32 year old man looks for like minded woman, interests include... crypto
you'd spent the first few hours of knowing somebody working out how to handshake
:P
13:44
"I'm sorry, you did not greet me with 'Hello <name>, 154B1AEA90034CEEB20671E3A63BD7239F2829EA7EF74AE99AE5B7B5F1A9BA03'"
"Maximum pick up attempts exceeded. Conversation closed."
@kalina OTOH cryptographers should be excellent at exchanging numbers with people. ;)
maybe there's a nice application for zero knowledge protocols there.
maybe there is
Oh my god. TLS is exactly like dating. First you start with something polite, maybe a handshake. Then you get to know each others preferences. Next, you exchange numbers. Finally you start communicating with each other.
10
can I quote you on that?
13:49
@TerryChia yeah, but SSL is like the bad girl version, they get around to screwing you on the first date
4
@AJHenderson lmao
and bestialities like POODLE and BEAST
does sex on the first date make you a bad girl?
what if you don't "date"?
what if every man you'd willingly hold a conversation in real life* with is actually already FWBs?
@kalina then you probably don't want to give out your number on Arcade
sorry for any momentary excitement caused
@AJHenderson I wouldn't do that anyway
also you've been missing for like forever
13:53
yeah, I've been silently lurking. Been a lot more busy lately. Still moderating the sites I moderate on and checking in on things, but haven't had time to post answers or chat too much
but I saw Terry's comment when I was checking chat and couldn't help but respond
that's not an acceptable excuse
you should quit some sites so you have time to chat
I suggest quitting community building since your lack of chat activity is counter to that particular objective
apparently, I can turn up to the bridge, set fire to somebody and get all the stars
@kalina aahahah :))
@kalina Why the star after "in real life"?
@RоryMcCune because I added it to clarify
@kalina ahh it kind of looked like an indication of a footnote that wasn't present
14:06
well it was a footnote in my mind and then I just edited it in
@kalina well stars are giant balls of fire
@kalina Isn't that what nicknames are for? One nick per interest group, so you can appear one dimensional to everybody.
@CodesInChaos oh, you can use just nicknames for that?
I create entire identities
maybe I've been doing it wrong
I used to, but I stopped caring a few years ago.
Now you can link most of my identities with a bit of effort.
would it be far too bitchy of me to hate on somebody for doing what I want
that's my biggest dilemma and I shall spend the next week considering the answer
14:16
We have Philosophy for that.
@kalina that depends, are you going to hate on someone for answering your question like you want?
pls I'm unsure if I even want to have the conversation in here, let alone posting it up on there
I've already bailed out of the conversation once today
and that would require making another SE account
for another site I'll never use but be compelled to edit every time I accidentally click on it
14:29
#whyhasitgonequiet
@kalina #WhoKnows
The Canadians will all be AFK today anyway
as it's their independence day or something
IIRC
pls the Canadians aren't independent, they'll do whatever the Americans tell them to
@kalina hmm I feel that the bears are unlikely to be bidden...
why not, humanity has done a good enough job of pushing them back so far
@kalina that's before they knew crypto
14:46
right well I need to set off to places to get arriving home
@kalina ta ta have fun at East Midlands :op
15:34
Do we have an exact duplicate for this question on security?
0
Q: Why many passes at file removal?

AlexWhy file removal tools offer gost 2 passes and British 3 passes or even gutman 35 passes options? In which case the single pseudo random pass is not enough?

I found a couple of questions about secure erasure, but seemed like an exact duplicate.
@TerryChia YOU HANDSHAKE A WOMAN ON A DATE?
50
Q: How can I reliably erase all information on a hard drive?

nealmcbAs storage technologies change over time, using different encodings and remappings to deal with sector errors, the best way to permanently erase/wipe/shred data changes also. Methods for flash drives and other solid-state drives are covered nicely at Jesper Mortensen's answer on SSD erasure. Va...

is likely the closest you'll get
FWIW whilst your question mentions file erasure I think he really means disk erasure
as erasing files properly on a modern OS is a tricky prospect at best, and not because of number of wipes
@RоryMcCune Thermite
@DavidFreitag .50 BMG sniper round right through the disk works too, probably... shatters the plates on an HDD, totally breaks the circuitry of an SSD with the force of the hit... xD
'course neither of our options work when you want to reuse the disk :p
15:50
@ThomasW. Yes but like shredded documents bits of information can still be retrieved from the small little bits of the plates
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda
@DavidFreitag Good point. Whether that information is usable or not though... :P
@RоryMcCune That only really works if you run it a few times
@RоryMcCune Y'know, I did this once, it didn't overwrite the entire disk with zeros actually
Run it with three passes it works, but not really on its own once... at least from my testing.
@DavidFreitag incorrect
well if you think you can get any real data back from a single pass
there's a man who'll pay you money to prove it
15:52
:P
@RоryMcCune Well it'll get 99.99% of everything, sure
but if you want to get everything, well...
@DavidFreitag what makes you think anything substantive will be left?
I've looked for a source for actually getting things back after a single pass
and I can't find a credible one
@RоryMcCune Because I am a fly on the wall of a hard drive reversing forum, and some of those hard drives have some seriously wacked firmware
@RоryMcCune That's assuming the single pass doesn't halt on a bad sector - i've had that happen a few times and the entire disk i/o operation fails
15:54
@DavidFreitag so it doesn't do the command?
(rare, but it's happened enough to me)
@ThomasW. ok ok absent it crashing half way through
33
A: Is it possible to recover data on a zeroed hard drive?

Daniel BTL;DR: It seems that data densities on HDs have increased to the point where it's not feasible to recover data from zeroed drives. The process of recovering data from a "zeroed" hard drive revolves around the concept of residual magnetism. Essentially, the idea is that if you examine the drive ...

@RоryMcCune No, it runs the command just fine, but in the name of speed/throughput some disks do passive caching of data, and writing 0's everywhere sometimes won't nuke those caches
Granted we are talking at most a few tens of megabytes but still
I no longer think that a single pass is enough.
@DavidFreitag well if you can provide examples, you should add on to that Sec.SE question and the skeptics one, it would be a welcome additional piece of data
15:56
I never have thought a single pass was enough - I always ran it through at least two
Mostly because I no longer think that deleting most but not all data is enough.
@CodesInChaos Nothing works better than >2000°F. It demagnetizes the metal.
@DavidFreitag And likely melts the metal too.
@ThomasW. well, yeah, that too :b
@CodesInChaos so a 1% chance of a single 32-bit number being retained on a terabyte disk is too risky?
15:58
assuming of course you don't send yourself to a fiery grave in the process :P
@RоryMcCune IMO that's the wrong question to ask.
@ThomasW. It's actually incredibly difficult to ignite thermite.
@CodesInChaos mmm
Say I have a multi gigabyte file and I erase it.
@DavidFreitag True
15:58
Then somebody who knows that file wants to prove that I possessed it.
If they succeed, the erasure sucked.
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