The DMZ

Flyk

13:01

all this @sim talk killed chat

AviD

@Simon "back"?? She's never even been here yet!

Flyk

oh wp10 10512 fixes the camera button

why does each new version of windows seem to break functionality that shouldnt really be breakable and then progressively get better/worse until its released and then it gets better/worse some more

"Some phones with a large number of tiles pinned to the Start screen may get stuck in a state where the device shows “Loading…”; the device will need to be reset or rolled back to Windows Phone 8.1"

how do you even break something like that

"video playback is broken in this build"

...

Simon

do do do do

do the pls

do do do do

do the pls dance

Rоry McCune

Burnistoun - do the hustle

►

^@Sim is the PLS dance like the hustle?

Simon

The pls dance is much more sophisticated.

user 5061

13:15

Would a question like below be considered on-topic in securitySE?:

Which identifying data can a (reputable) gaming company collect from users that installed their game? (note that in its "privacy policy" it mentions it will gather hardware specs related information)

raz

@Flyk You're not wrong, a 2 year old outsmarted me on the use of an iPad.

AviD

@user5061 it would be on topic, but the question itself is problematic.

user 5061

@AviD What makes it problematic?

Flyk

what they're allowed to collect varies from location to location and what they actually collect is an entire different subject

Simon

@user5061 Are you asking about the legality of the data that they can collect or what actual data they collect?

@Flyk Could you stop?

raz

13:17

@user5061 It lacks specifics. Game privacy policies can differ, and the most likely answers that will be generated would be primarily opinion based. To give a general answer would most likely be too broad of a question.

AviD

"which data" - referring to legal restrictions? if so, what jurisdiction? what users (e.g. children have different laws in some areas)? or referring to "collecting safely"? reputation? Or just according to the privacy policy, which would be too specific.

Flyk

@Simon why? :/

user 5061

@Simon What actual data they can collect, so that i can see how effectively they can track users.

AviD

@user5061 "can", define that

Simon

@Flyk WE SAID THE SAME THING AGAIN!

Flyk

13:18

@user5061 you provide a username to log into most of these services, they can track you by username

Simon

This is creepy.

AviD

technically they "can" collect anything they are able to.

Simon

@user5061 Meh, what @AviD just said.

AviD

@Simon then pull your pants back on.

Simon

You're installing their software on your PC, they can pretty much access whatever they want.

AviD

13:21

@Simon .... and ask the user for anything else.

user 5061

What type of data can they collect? e.g they can see my operating system, my graphics card, my processor. Correct?

What about more "strong" (regarding identification) data like router serial number? Can that be tracked too?

Flyk

it would be nice if the privilege to install wasn't the same privilege to have full access to the machine in Windows

Simon

@user5061 Here's this: if you can access any information on your computer without an authentication, they can do it too.

Flyk

@user5061 they "can" collect any information that is accessible from the machine you've given their software administrative privileges to install itself on

AviD

@user5061 or if its on mobile - IMEI, GPS, and anything else allowed by the permissions model.

or anything at all, if its on Android.

Flyk

13:24

so that's "everything on your machine"

user 5061

lol

"awesome" :P

Flyk

and "everything available on your network with the credentials youve provided"

and "everything available on your network that doesn't require authentication not matching the credentials provided"

AviD

so bascially, thats the problem with the question - its either waay too broad, or you can easily change it to be too specific.

to make that in to a good question, you need to be specific about what you're asking.

Simon

And we've pretty much just answered it anyway.

Flyk

I believe an early version of EA's Origin used to scan your machine for pirated EA games

(for example)

SteamGuard knows enough about all of your PCs to know if you're logging in with a PC it doesn't recognize

user 5061

13:26

Yeah, it has been answered here. Basically my goal is to know if they can (with certainty) identify me as a previous user when i create a new account.

Flyk

and then there's the list of information that is revealed just as a byproduct of using the internet

@user5061 they could, it's unlikely there's an automated system in place for it, though

Simon

Stop being a bad boi on video games and you won't have to worry about any of this.

user 5061

I cant undo my "sins". :)

Neither can i avoid my future sins, so i need to be more careful.

Simon

-.-

AviD

13

Q: Does Windows 10 spy on you?

I've found two articles saying that Windows 10 spies on you: TechWorm - Microsoft’s Windows 10 has permission to watch your every move BoingBoing - Windows 10 automatically spies on your children and sends you a dossier of their activity Is it true or fake? I know that Windows 10 sends malwar...

Flyk

13:30

oh if you've been banned, it's far more liekly there is an automated process waiting for you when you sign back up

AviD

thoughts on that?

Flyk

@AviD people forming opinions on W10 based on the inside preview most likely

AviD

the q and the answer are both very borderline ranting, and not much else

Flyk

and/or they've got cortana on

oh you didn't want a technical opinion

Simon

The Q is not ranting.

AviD

13:31

@Flyk heh, no

@Simon NOW. but that is the whole point of the question.

Simon

Or perhaps the user is worried about his data.

user 5061

Thanks for the answers.

AviD

and calling the OS "spying" is pretty ranty.

@Simon OMG the OS can see which programs you have open!

stupid M$ is eeveel

Simon

It is evil.

Flyk

@AviD I don't like the wording of the question or the answer

in fact, can you check if they're the same user?

ranty answers are usually self answered

AviD

13:34

14 mins ago, by AviD

@Simon then pull your pants back on.

@Flyk they are not, but good point.

also @Flyk I think that was your best comment here yet

Flyk

that's doubtful

everything I say is completely amazing and should be given undivided attention

the other thing that annoys me about that post

1. First

2. Second

3. Third

4. Fourth

5. Fifth

AviD

@Flyk hey, it could have been worse = he could have messed that up.

Flyk

but I want to edit it and can't

AviD

1. First
2. Also
3. Besides that,
4. Second,
5. Fifth

raz

I think most of his answer is speculative and slightly misleading with that privacy agreement he posted.

AviD

13:40

@raz should the question even live

maybe I should send it to skeptics.se.

raz

@AviD I mean, most of the answers are going to be opinion-based.

AviD

@raz yeah, my point

and kinda the point of the q, imo.

raz

I'd like to think that a technical answer is possible, but in reality we probably won't see it.

AviD

@raz a proper technical answer would point out that its a stupid, pointless question.

raz

@AviD hahaha

AviD

13:41

THE OS BY VERY DEFINITION ALWAYS KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE DOING ON YOUR OS.

@raz maybe we should get @ThomasPornin to write up a proper rant.

Or better yet, his ranty alter ego, @TomLeek.

raz

@AviD I think this is a fantastic idea!

AviD

Pinging @ThomasPornin now - a question begging for a rant from @TomLeek: security.stackexchange.com/q/96713/33 . Otherwise I would either hammer it hard, or clean it up and throw it at skeptics.se.

raz

@AviD I didn't know there was a skeptics.se, I'm skeptical

AviD

raz

Oh don't worry I found it... some of these questions...

Aren't these questions what the internet is for?

Flyk

13:49

there, I have provided the best answer I can

downvote away

also: congratulations on breaking my silence

asshats

raz

@Flyk Upvoted

That's the type of logical answer I was hoping for.

Flyk

well I try

raz

That other guy constantly answers questions with a heavy tinfoil hat.

Flyk

well the comments on the question are the same

that comment about the ars technica article completely misses the fact that ars's conclusion is they're not spying on you

sensationalist nonsense

and that first link

raz

@Flyk Answer porn

Flyk

13:55

oh god, is that a link to malware?

apparently disabling UAC fixes Windows 10 spying on you and it provides a link to download an application to do it for you

@mods should validate the link in this comment:

This program, which even partially stops it, should be enough proof of spying: onhax.net/how-to-stop-windows-10-spying-on-you-guide — Vilican 3 hours ago

raz

yeah I definitely wouldn't install that

Flyk

Please google about Ken Fisher Microsoft Corporation. You know (regarding your former comments and downvote) who's Ken Fisher: the creator of Ars Technica website from which you reproduced all this and linked to. One thing is sure: I do not work for Microsoft — begueradj 55 secs ago

raz

Does googling a name make his answer better?

Flyk

I think he's implying that because Ars is associated with Microsoft then of course they're covering up

Rоry McCune

@Flyk either that or he thinks you work for MS, which would be an impressive feat of tin-foilhattery

raz

14:02

ohhh sigh

Flyk

@RоryMcCune oh yeah guys, sorry, I forgot to mention, I work for Microsoft

which is why I use Android on most of my devices

Rоry McCune

@Flyk cooool, can you get me a HoloLens ???

Flyk

no I'm sorry, that requires the collection of neural information which you wouldn't be willing to agree with

Rоry McCune

@Flyk darn!

raz

@Flyk But it doesn't matter if I agree to it!

Flyk

14:05

no, it never matters once you agree to it

any complaints after such an agreement only demonstrate a severe lack of intelligence

so here, hololens for all people in the DMZ

including the north and south koreans and those at the jsa

raz

@Flyk And then you sew yet another person's mouth onto my butthole, making me a being that shares one gastral tract.

Flyk

ew

oh, googling "windows 10 spies on you" returns a massive number of tabloid newspapers whining about stuff but very few actual technical assessments

/sigh

AviD

so okay, that question needs more closevotes.

Simon

No, it doesn't.

Flyk

14:20

you're going to close a question that has like my highest voted answer ever on it?

raz

@AviD What we need is @Flyk answer to get a lot more +1's over the other dude's

Flyk

it's already higher voted

TildalWave

g'day ladies, gents

Flyk

he said hi to me first

i am the most important/favorite

hug @TildalWave

TildalWave

@Flyk hug back

raz

14:21

@TildalWave The Meta problem was an issue with HTTPS Everywhere. Must have been a caching issue when I was playing around with it yesterday.

TildalWave

you're the only lady here?

:O

Flyk

@TildalWave well there's @Ohnana and @sim and ... er ...

Simon

pls

TildalWave

@Flyk yeah I don't see them in the list

Flyk

@Simon are you saying she isn't a lady?

raz

14:23

Maybe not in bed amiright

Simon

slp

TildalWave

So is @Ohnana a he or a she? I think I misheard something about the meaning of the word "ohnana" being mentioned (and in my language "ona" means "her" too)

Flyk

@Simon I'm going to tell her about how you said really nasty things behind her back

raz

@Simon Service Location Protocol?

Successive Linear Programming?

Scottish Liberal Party?

TildalWave

@Simon's ~~Long~~ Loose P?

Flyk

14:26

that guy was pretty mardy

@AviD I assume it was you that edited his comments?

just remember: at the rate this guy is going, he's going to be your next high rep user

Rоry McCune

@Flyk aaand now I have the arctic Monkeys in my head

Flyk

the who?

raz

@Flyk Yeah he got on some tinfoil rep train answers

Rоry McCune

@Flyk no, the Arctic Monkeys

Flyk

well his response the moment I posted my answer was having a go at me for downvoting him

Rоry McCune

14:27

Arctic Monkeys - Mardy Bum

►

Flyk

and then he downvoted me (this is a revenge vote and I believe such actions are against the user agreement)

and then I downvoted him (also a revenge vote)

raz

@Flyk Yeah he doesn't like it when people don't agree with him

TildalWave

@RоryMcCune would be quite cool if Arctic Monkeys did a The Who cover tho, wouldn't it?

Flyk

and then he realized he was wrong

I love users like that

they demonstrate why I don't SE anymore

that proxy bypass thing in the ars article seems to be the only wrong thing that I haven't agreed to in any licence agreement, though

and that seems more like a bug than a feature

Rоry McCune

@Flyk yeah that'll be a bug 'cause it would break in many corp. environments where the only way to the Internet is via a proxy...

Flyk

14:30

yeah my thoguhts exactly

this is really just an expansion of the whole live searching issue really

raz

Yeah I'm sure that'll be fixed via an update.... oh wait.

Flyk

the data is required for the functionality to work

cortana can't work without data

ad personalization can't work without data

device syncing doesn't work without data

raz

We're all in the cloud, just give up now. Or move to Canada

Flyk

oh

my answer is rep training

Rоry McCune

@Flyk yeah the only issue I have with MS on W10 and privacy is that the defaults of "send all the things" aren't signalled very well and they kind of hide the "customize" links a bit making them very small and unobtrusive

Flyk

14:33

that's just it - the "defaults" are "opt in to everything"

but let's be fair - the average user would have more issue with installing windows 10 and cortana not working out of the box than the other way around

Rоry McCune

@Flyk you already have more rep. this week than @LucasKauffman or @AviD

Flyk

if you had to go through 10-20 steps to enable all of Windows 10's new features, people would be bitching about that instead

Rоry McCune

@Flyk yeah I think for home it's entirely reasonable, but for pro and/or enterprise they could have made it more visible and defaulted to "off"

Flyk

tbh, most of these likely have group policy equivilents

completely negating the "enterprise" aspect

wait a minute

Rоry McCune

@Flyk sure GPO's work where they're deployed but I'm guessing not all SMEs use 'em and those co's may not be too happy about things like keystroke data going to the US...

Flyk

14:35

isn't there a badge for this scenario

right

I need the following:

my answer needs 20 votes and the other guy needs 10

for the populist badge

Rоry McCune

@Flyk well you're only 3 off

raz

2x the accepted answer, min 10

Flyk

@raz last I checked, 2x10 is 20

I've just confirmed it, 2x10 is definitely 20

trusty calculator

raz

lol, I was in the middle of typing it out. Submitted it anyway

Flyk

I don't have enough reputation to downvote, but I would. Besides the fact that the quoted text is not in the shipped version, the W10 installer is very clear about what information is collected and it includes on/off switches thats allow opting out. — Martin Argerami 2 mins ago

I will assume an implied thank you, just imagine if I hadn't answered, that other guy would have rep trained on that answer!

the requirements have been met

Ohnana

14:40

@TildalWave i was born female but I'm going to be transitioning to male pretty soon

i am unverifiable >:)

@RоryMcCune this song is so fuckin goofy i love it

Rоry McCune

@Flyk thank you :) you can be the site's Windows defender from now on !

Flyk

oh no I will need at least a few months to recover after this post

Rоry McCune

@Ohnana gotta love a bit of Arctic Monkeys

Flyk

I don't know how I will have the motivation to take part in hat bash this year otherwise

I mean, I haven't even chosen which site I'm going to do it on

I am officially homeless in terms of SE site to actually use

Rоry McCune

@Flyk hey surely this is your home site now :)

Flyk

14:43

there is no way I will have enough meaningful input to succeed at hat collection on this site

Rоry McCune

out-repping a mod should be qualification enough..

Flyk

my input here is all complete fluke

Rоry McCune

@Flyk you now have as much rep. this week as the little bear...

Flyk

sure and the average person can become a millionaire by playing the lottery

with a 1 in 14 million chance or whatever

Rоry McCune

@Flyk hey does that mean I can trade my Internet points for Lottery wins?!?

Ohnana

14:45

lottery tickets don't require you to string together meaningful information

they just need money, and being stupid doesn't prevent you from having that

Flyk

@RоryMcCune no

oh yay, I've gained access to see votes

Rоry McCune

@Flyk darn

raz

@begueradj You have the greatest answer for my question. — Zviad Gabroshvili 6 mins ago

Rоry McCune

@raz in other words "I'm biased and you confirmed my biases so I like that answer"

raz

Yep

Flyk

14:54

@RоryMcCune indeed

oh lol, he's just updated his answer

with more out of date information

in fact his new section is just as ranty as the rest

Rоry McCune

@Flyk looking at his top answer, ranty seems to be a bit of a theme

Flyk

populist takes too long to award

Lucas Kauffman

kill the damn fly

the fly is dead

yeaaaaaa

Rоry McCune

@Flyk well while you're waiting

Flyk

woo

Rоry McCune

15:07

glad to see us lefties get a day

Lucas Kauffman

why did that question get 8 downvotes

Rоry McCune

make up for the smeared ink and the awkward to hold tools

@LucasKauffman which one?

Flyk

@LucasKauffman answer?

the question didn't

Lucas Kauffman

yea the answer

ah it's about the pre-release version

Rоry McCune

@LucasKauffman also the ranting and comparing MS to murders

Flyk

15:08

because it's ranty, speculative, and doesn't actually address the release version of W10

Rоry McCune

not the best answer in the world

to put it mildly

Flyk

oh and the fact his first response to my answer was to downvote it before realizing you shouldn't do such a thing

My favorite bit is this, though: "Fourth, how can you trust a product of which the source code is not available." - like you can implicitly trust software just because the source code is available

Rоry McCune

@Flyk well of course you can tell that any software with open in the name will be perfectly secure, just look at OpenSSL..... oh

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Bear #2 is on holidays.

Flyk

sure thing, Linux has never had any issues during its entire existence

oh, it's now in the hot questions list

Rоry McCune

15:23

hey @Flyk OpSec fail.. I found a picture of you on Twitter...

:op

Flyk

you can't randomly pick pictures of brunettes with musical instruments and conclude it's me

that's nearly as bad as complaining that beta software collects usage information

Rоry McCune

@Flyk it was the electronicness of it..

Flyk

my OCD wouldn't allow cables to get that messy

I'm twitching just looking at that picture

I am the girl who spends more time organizing cables than I do building, installing and configuring the computer

Rоry McCune

@Flyk color coded cable ties?

Flyk

yep

Rоry McCune

15:26

figured

Flyk

red for power green for audio blue for everything else

and they're velcro cable wraps

for when my OCD shifts and requires me to redo it all

did you know that green eyes are a mutation?

Rоry McCune

@Flyk I didn't, but I guess it would make sense in that they're commonly seen with red hair

Flyk

15:42

oooh

@Mindwin thank you very much for the keyword and support. Kind regards and +5 :) merci — begueradj 8 mins ago

he just upvoted a user - vote fraud!!!1111eleven

I can't even stir up some meaningless drama

such a failure

Iszi

16:13

@Flyk Could be worse - you could be @Simon.

raz

16:39

@Flyk I think it's funny that he is so skeptical and distrustful of everything... except the media.

Flyk

@raz yeah

I always wear my tinfoil hat when I go to fetch mainstream tabloids from the news shop

raz

@Flyk But famous newspapers say it, it must be true!

Flyk

@raz may I steal that btw?

well, too late

raz

haha, steal away

Flyk

It's funny that you are so skeptical and distrustful of everything... and then you use articles from mainstream media outlets as fact. Since you trust The Guardian so much... Judge may hold Microsoft in contempt after refusal to hand over foreign data. Or this one. Hundreds or maybe thousands of articles like this. Regards. — Flyk 1 min ago

raz

16:52

oh snap, you through his regards right back at him

Flyk

oh yay I got populist

oh look at the quality of the members in the populist club

I'll shuttup now

raz

I think the "check stats for badges" is only run a couple of times a day

Flyk

who is Nighthawk441 because I like him

raz

@raz I linked to the last quoted paragraph: you can see the date of the article is August 13, 2015, which thing means after W10 have been sold already. That paragraph is mentioned everywhere but it does not exist anymore in MW10 statement after the criticism it received. Updating a privacy policy without doing the same for the software is ... you understand. — begueradj 2 mins ago

After I explicitly state I don't want media articles, he still quotes media articles

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