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12:00
yeah... not quite three month's salary yet
as the most purposely ambiguous statement ever, I'd have to earn more than double what I'm on now...
I suppose that states I'm on less than 40000/month
such hardships
@Flyk poor thing, don't know how you get by :op
ikr
of course, like the stereotypical musician that could mean I'm on 0/month
There are some people who survive on 10k€ here.
per month?
such hardships.
per year.
raz
raz
12:09
Well surviving and living could be considered two different ways of life.
I live on 20k€/yr.
The only issue I have run into so far is paying for rent
Morning guys
Hell' @JukEboX
@DavidFreitag yes but you choose to donate your talents and abilities to people who can't afford/don't want to pay you properly
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@DavidFreitag Haha, that's the only issue?
12:11
Morning @M'vy
also "surviving" is when you're struggling for heat, eating moldy food or not eating at all, etc
@Flyk You also have to consider that I don't technically have a college degree yet, and pretty much no company but the one I work for would hire me to do the job I currently do.
I'm at least 3 years from a meaningful degree.
I feel more people need to experience "surviving" so that they can correct their opinions of what constitutes "living"
@raz Yes, especially when your rent check overdrafts the only bank account you have.
@DavidFreitag I worded it so positively and you just had to ruin it
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12:13
@DavidFreitag Yeah, that salary wouldn't come close to paying my rent.
@Flyk this is very true. Many don't know what it is like living paycheck to paycheck unless they actually do it.
@DavidFreitag but most cases companies look for the Real Life experience. The degree is a just a bonus'
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@JukEboX And be tens of thousands in debt!
@raz more like 6 figures in debt
@raz because of said education
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@JukEboX I've not found that to be the case. Generally the degree gets you the interview. Your experiences get you the job.
I would be content living in a wooden box large enough to fit the bare essentials. I have many times considered building my own living space, but running water, sewer, and internet connections are complicated.
raz
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12:15
@JukEboX Such a great world we live in!
@raz yes because the education system now is a joke
College is no longer a requirement because they teach the "theory" and students to be "well rounded" i.e. (History, Math, Science, etc)
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@DavidFreitag Just become a licensed electrician and plumber. You'll do fine.
@JukEboX Not in the engineering field, lack of a proper certificate is grounds for immediate disqualification. Even if they don't throw out your resume, it will be bottom of the list for sure.
That "Well Roundedness" is a waste of time for what they need for actual work experience
@raz Licensing has little to do with it. I can do everything so long as a certified person reviews them (I have certified family members), but hooking into utilities involves going to city hall and contacting the service providers and power companies. It's a major hassle.
12:17
The best idea is to go to a technical school where the professors actually have the experience and teach you the experience as well as the skills you need in the real world
@DavidFreitag Sounds like you need to learn Javascript and move to SF. ;)
Universities are just outdated overpriced daycares now that don't count anywhere toward your degree
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@DavidFreitag Just buy a camper, tons of water/electrical hookups for that!
@TerryChia I would rather live in a soggy cardboard box underneath an overpass.
@DavidFreitag True but engineering (depending on what your engineering) shouldn't have to require you to do history, science, social studies etc
@TerryChia if he moved to SF he would be living in cardboard box under and overpass
12:18
@raz My parents have a 33' fifth wheel camper, I would not enjoy that.
@DavidFreitag My first couple of years after uni I lived in an Edinburgh boxroom. Basically a 6ft wide, 6ft deep and 12 ft high room. I did at least convert it into two rooms by building a bed halfway up, so I could use the space, but still - a wee bit poky
@JukEboX Which is why any reputable university will only require one class as a requirement for those subjects.
@JukEboX I have heard that it's ridiculously easy to get a decent paying job at hip startup 6346456745 if you are a full stack dev, which is basically just Javascript nowadays.
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@JukEboX I think it's good to have to take courses out of your comfort zone. If you go to an Engineering School then you'd only have to take 1 per semester. It is good to be able to speak about things other than engineering.
@TerryChia lol I was about to say, "If you by full stack developer you mean JS developer"
@DavidFreitag many universities required 2 to 3 years of "CORE" classes (math, English, history, science, etc)
I know because I worked at one for 12 years
@TerryChia Makes me wish I didn't hate JavaScript so much
12:21
@JukEboX I have 40 credits in math alone. I have already fulfilled my history/art requirements.
@JukEboX it's amazing motivation to fix your situation
@raz not sure where your from but they might be different there :)
either that or a recipe for depression
@Flyk yes it is. My (now wife) and I did it for almost a decade. Just now are we finding jobs where we have extra money to save and we can look back on it and say..... How did we do that?
@JukEboX aye
12:22
@RoryAlsop morning
I guess that depends on your version of "paycheck to paycheck". If that means "nearly overdrafted before each paycheck" then I have been doing that for the past 5 years.
@DavidFreitag no paycheck to paycheck is where one week before you get paid you've got nothing left and still need whatever money you have to travel to work for the last week before payday
@Flyk is right. Or you need gas money to get to the job you get the check from
and you stock up on super cheap packets of noodles from the bargain bin to ensure you have food to eat
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@JukEboX I live in the US. My school of engineering only required one elective per semester. The rest were engineering courses.
12:25
@raz Ok. For my Computer Networking degree I needed 2 years of "Core" classes as well as electives and majors classes. MANY universities are like this.
anything more than that... congrats, you're doing better than like 50% of the planet
raz
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@Flyk Man, I lived off noodles for a long time. Noodles and cereal.
My refrigerator is completely empty except for a container of mayonnaise and a plastic bag of cheese.
@DavidFreitag for quite a few years I was briefly in the black before red again. And each month was more red. Was a bit worrying
@Flyk or just have days where you don't eat
@RoryAlsop ironically that happens more frequently now than when I had money troubles
12:27
@Flyk yeah, but I'm guessing like me it's now just from being busy and forgetting
yes... such a novel idea... forgetting to eat
why do I feel so weak? Oh, it's Monday? Where did Sunday go? I've not eaten since Friday...
Some days it does still happen - wonder at 10pm why my stomach is so growly, then decide no point eating before bed
lol
It's probably good for me - I could do with losing a stone or so
so like, just give me one of everything
that's something I'm not used to, aside from the 20 seconds of latency I'm enduring at the moment
every now and again Windows Phone 10 sits there with a "loading..." or a "resuming..." screen
I don't want to see that, I just want you to do it
you're not allowed to show me "resuming..." for 3 seconds and then spend another second doing perfectly fluid animation!
the two things contradict each other!
ok
oh noes, a wild @Simon has appeared
hey maybe we should ping @simon's.donut repeatedly until she returns
12:32
Ain't nothing wild about me this morning.
oh
well, go back sleep then
I just see a perfectly valid donut
@Flyk yeah I was disappointed that I missed the appearance by @simon's.donut earlier
me too
I had so many questions
like "why would you even do that to yourself?"
@Flyk she likes donuts?
12:35
and "how badly are you broken that you allow this to occur?"
and "seriously, doesn't the donut fetish get a little weird?"
Wait I MISSED @Simon's donut!??????
and "please please please make him write the arrangement before spending time on sound selection"
o that last one wasn't a question
@DavidFreitag you know your at that level when you need to make sure your making the minimum payments on things like car payments and credit cards so you can save a bit to go grocery shopping
I think this is the funniest thing I have seen today: ponzibtc.com
@TerryChia stupid work net blocked :/
12:37
@JukEboX Yes, I've got automatic payments taken out. It's really difficult to keep myself from buying things with my $5k limit card though.
@JukEboX psh, car is too much of a luxery
> With hundreds of deposits weekly, we are the top BTC Ponzi website out there! Our huge user base is what makes this Ponzi work! With more people depositing, the BTC's travel faster from our bank to your wallets! Be careful though... Don't invest what you aren't prepared to lose, because it is a Ponzi and if deposits stop coming in, the last depositors are out of luck.
@DavidFreitag best thing you can do for yourself is pay off that credit card and cut it up
@TerryChia lololololol
@Flyk take public transpo?
I could probably sell my car and get a $800 beater, but I just couldn't do it.
@JukEboX agreed - credit cards are evil
12:39
That would save me $600/mo right there
$600 a month on a car? O_O
$380 for loan payment and $220 for insurance.
@DavidFreitag we paid off our and cut them up a few years ago. First off made it so satisfiying putting it in the shredder. Second that helps so much on bills and everything else. Then start paying off all kind of things like loans or debts. Start with the cheapest one
@DavidFreitag $220 for insurance?!
As a joke, I quoted myself the exact same insurance from the exact same company as both a male and female, and it was only $90/mo as a female.
12:40
wait I think we've had this conversation before
We have.
I have a penis, thus I must be an absolute menace to society on wheels.
@DavidFreitag that's easy just grow some ovaries :P
@Flyk I think at this point all the conversations have already been had.
"a female", like we're some kind of different species
@Flyk You say that like it is not true.
12:41
@TerryChia no, I can think of many conversations we haven't had
@DavidFreitag ...
@DavidFreitag you have car payment, insurance, student loans, then you got electric, gas, water, power, and whatever else you pay for monthly (cable, newspaper, etc) ?
I have just over 5 months to figure out where I'm going to live, or I really will be living in a soggy cardboard box under an overpass somewhere.
@DavidFreitag what's your budget like for housing
@DavidFreitag woah...
I pay about $2000/mo all in, rent credit payments, power, etc, and I make just a few pennies over $2200/mo after taxes, health insurance, etc.
That doesn't include gas for my car, but that's about $40/mo
@RoryAlsop That's what happens when you get a loan with an 11.9% interest rate.
12:46
it's a good job that @Xander didn't get a diamond, he's almost never here
@DavidFreitag Yikes.
@Flyk Yeah, the site really dodged a bullet on that one.
@Xander ikr
@Flyk Yeah unlike that other guy who's always here, right?
@DavidFreitag time to lower your housing payment. Find a place with a roommate
12:48
which other guy
I thought the election was cancelled due to @AviD actually deciding he was going to do something for a change?
@JukEboX You say that like I haven't been trying to find a roommate.
@DavidFreitag is that a euphemism?
@DavidFreitag I meant find a place looking for a roommate. Maybe closer to work. Better odds are for people looking for a roommate instead of the other way around.
@Arperum I could refinance the loan, but that would decrease the loan period, and make the payments go up. I'm between a rock and a hard place.
@JukEboX If I lived closer to work I'd have a cot and a pillow under my desk.
@DavidFreitag lol oh. So you walk to work?
12:50
Who walks to work, peons?
@JukEboX No, but 5 miles is a very small distance.
huh, there isn't a Steam client for Windows phone
raz
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@Flyk Why are you shocked by this?
@DavidFreitag ...
12:52
rekt
@raz "huh" hardly indicates shock
So you know how mint gives you a positive or negative trend on your recent income?
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@Flyk Does it indicate surprise?
That's mine ^
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@DavidFreitag Mint?
12:54
@DavidFreitag I'm not an expert at finance but I wanna say that this is not good.
@raz more "well that's something I didn't know, erm... ooh look that cloud looks like a face... wait, what was I doing?"
Granted, those numbers include credit card debt
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@Flyk haha, fair enough
And I probably have $1200 across both of my cards
12:55
Why do you have more than one card you donut?
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Better for credit
Well that and my first card only has a $500 limit
he likes getting fucked by multiple people at once
wat
@Flyk All day every day.
12:56
everytime I try and download the twatter client from the windows store it gets to 90% and then freezes
@Flyk no there isn't. there is aSTEAM app but it's garbage. You have WP?
I guess my next phone will be a google phone, again
/sigh
It obviously doesn't want you reading any twats.
@JukEboX unofficial clients are against the terms of service and I'm not going to be the idiot who gets her massive steam account banned for using a third party client
rekt
12:58
@raz it's better for credit only if you can pay it off not that you have 2 cards
@Flyk you don't get banned for using it, you get banned for developing it
@Flyk I have used a few of them and my account is completely in tact.
I find the best way to deal with a credit card to build up a credit rating is to use it exclusively for expenditure and don't actually spend any of your own money, instead pulling that all on the card
@JukEboX Just because you have yet to be banned is not proof that you will not be at some point.
@JukEboX That is the worst argument ever. "All my life I've ripped people off and never got caught so it must be legal!".
dovid gets it
@JukEboX sure, and I used to deal drugs, smoke weed and drive... didn't get caught so it must be ok right?
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@JukEboX You don't have to pay it off, just make on time payments.
13:01
@Flyk the ones I have used have used Steams authentication process where steam sends you the auth code so I doubt I am in any trouble
Speaking of drugs, it is apparently a new trend for drones to fly large quantities of drugs into prisons during yard hours.
@raz right. Sorry should have clarified
Both of my cards are set to automagically reach into my checking account and take the minimum each month.
@DavidFreitag best thing is to pay off those cards and then get a separate card you can only use for medical issues like CareCredit and pay for everything else with debt or cash
@DavidFreitag That's a recipe for disaster.
13:02
@JukEboX I pay something like $36/mo for really good healthcare. $10 copay and pretty much free everything.
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See what you want to do is not spend more than you make.
@Simon What, like, your rent check over drafting my only bank account? Like it did this month?
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I always love that you get charged a fee for money that you clearly don't have when that happens.
@DavidFreitag that's good but the point is without the credit cards your credit isn't effected. If you do the CareCredit card it only is used for medical and it counts toward your credit so you are building your credit without putting yourself in debt
I am fine with being in debt, if I wasn't the five digits I owe on my car would probably have driven me to insanity.
13:06
if your circumstances are that close, why do you have a >$10000 car?
I'm glad that @ScottPack didn't get a diamond, he's never even here!
@Flyk Because when I bought it I wasn't in this situation.
@DavidFreitag Something like that, yeah.
I was paying $200/mo in rent and that's about it
so you spend more on car insurance than you do on rent?
No, I currently pay $525/mo in rent.
13:09
crazy
That's really aweseome price for rent. @DavidFreitag where you located?
raz
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It's embarrassing what I pay in rent
@raz we are in the US. All rent is ridic
@JukEboX Connecticut
@DavidFreitag no shit! So am I!
13:10
lol
@DavidFreitag A two-bedroom apartment and you pay 525?
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Well when $1500 for a 1BR in a slumlord apartment building... I think I win ridiculous.
@Simon Split between two people, yes.
@raz I never said my rent was ridiculous, if you want that get an apartment where @tylerl works.
@raz I got the better deal at 1150/month for 3 bedrooms and 1400SQft
IIRC I recall him saying something like $7600/mo for a single bedroom.
13:12
@DavidFreitag jeez where is he? Midtown Manahatten?
@DavidFreitag Ahhh.
@raz In Paris I was paying 1200 € for a two-rooms apartment (50 m² total surface). 5th level ("6th level" with American conventions), no lift.
pls it's Paris.
But a very good view on the Eiffel tower.
@JukEboX Mountain View, California
13:13
@DavidFreitag yeah that makes sense
@raz the question is, what is the paycheck-to-rent ratio?
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@ThomasPornin Well if I got a view of the Eiffel Tower I might reconsider my position.
@DavidFreitag It was just under half my monthly pay
My rent is over 1/3 my monthly pay
@raz After a few weeks, the effect is lowered.
@DavidFreitag Mine is 1/8.
13:16
I was using the Tower as a crude meteorological instrument: if I don't see it, then weather is foggy.
@Simon Yeah that's because you aren't being paid in wooden pennies.
True.
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@DavidFreitag They say that monthly expenses for living (rent, gas, groceries, utilties) shouldn't be more than 50% of your income. Good luck with that. Maybe if you live in Idaho.
At least if humans had the capacity to digest wood I'd be somewhere
2
raz
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@DavidFreitag @Simon's mom can
13:20
@raz All of those things are 90% of my income
well, not groceries and gas
pls
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@DavidFreitag It's tough to balance things out
I wonder if the capacity to digest wood is a trait that is passed from mother to son.
@Flyk I've been traveling.
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13:27
hahaha
@ScottPack so have I! Where have you been?
The construction workers that are apparently rebuilding the apartment above me are listening to a a country music radio station about as loudly as the laws of physics dictate is possible. I think I can feel my sanity slowly leeching away.
I doubt that it's anywhere near that loud - you'd be instantly deaf and probably die from the vibrations
Is that what that feeling is?
I am seriously starting to wish I instantly went deaf.
also: if there was a way that I could wear a subpac all the time without it being noticeable I would do so
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13:38
@Flyk I've never heard of those before... but those things seem awesome
I have one strapped to my chair at home
which is great until you stand up
they do a mobile version but it's obvious you're wearing it
What is it?
a jacket that feels like the bottom 130Hz of a highly tuned club sound system
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@Flyk So is it only a subwoofer, or does it also have a headphone amp with it.
or, a chair insert thing
it's not really a *subwoofer" as such, it won't move much air
it's more about the feels
13:42
aand back.. was AFK for potential Lightning related power cuts
@RоryMcCune That's unfortunate. You should get a battery backup.
@DavidFreitag we have a UPS for some kit but not everything, problem is that you can't (AFAIK) surge-protect ADSL lines and last year one of my ADSL modems + firewall got fried by a lightning strike
@DavidFreitag mine came in Friday :)
so now we're more cautious about powering down when we see it coming
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@Flyk Ah ok.
13:44
now amusing myself by watching lightningmaps.org/realtime and seeing it head off east
Not that this particular one seems very trustworthy.
Get an APC. They are trusted, proven, and very good. Plus when it is time to upgrade they help pay for it
@DavidFreitag interesting, yeah the problem that the ISP mentioned what that in filtering surges it could affect the signal..
But you could make something yourself with a handful of transient voltage suppressing diodes and a soldering iron.
@JukEboX yeah I have a UPS that works fine for power sockets
just need something for the phone lines themselves
13:47
@RоryMcCune Well of course it will, but it should only be a momentary blip. Certainly less than powering everything down.
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@Flyk I've toyed with buying a headphone amp, but I never know if I'll really benefit from it or not.
ideally would like a solar + battery off-grid setup so I could just disconnect when needed
UPS are for people who don' thave their own on site nuclear backup
like... pretty much everybody in the world
@raz depends if you have decent headphones or not
@Flyk Or a roof lined with silicon.
@DavidFreitag yeah I was thinking that the generally operation might degrade the ADSL signal rather than just when it catches a peak
13:48
1.21 gigawatts is enough for time travel, if only we could harness that power somehow
I think we just got struck by lightning! All of our electrical devices are reading 400% normal charge!
@RоryMcCune It depends on what sort of surge protection you implement. Some TVS diodes/MOVs would be a good start, but if you want to be really sure you could use a small isolation transformer for each data line.
raz
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@Flyk I've got an pair of Audio Technica ATH-AD700's. I haven't quite made the leap to the $300-$500 level yet.
the only time a smartphone will last more than a day without charging
with the pink?
Tiamats FTW
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@Flyk The pinkish/purplish outer cover? yeah
13:52
@RоryMcCune If you know someone who has the proper licenses/certifications, solar panels are pretty much free at this point. The bulk of the price is going to be the installation costs (which are insane).
@DavidFreitag yeah the prices have dropped a lot, and when I look at our current .gov promising high supply rates to people for renewables and nuclear energy it makes me think it'd be worth doing
@raz cute
I feel like the sun exposure there is less than optimal though.
@DavidFreitag oh yeah not as good as other places for sure, which is why I'm waiting to see the costs keep coming down, and the efficiencies of panels going up
@RоryMcCune At this point it's almost more important to make sure that you don't cheap out on the inverter. In some cases you might find that the solar panels are more efficient than the inverter.
13:59
@DavidFreitag yeah would want a good quality system overall, so no point cheaping out on one component...

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