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03:21
@LucasKauffman - good morning, droogs!
 
3 hours later…
06:29
Morning
Why are you up so early :P? @RoryAlsop
 
4 hours later…
10:28
@LucasKauffman @RoryAlsop I'd guess it was him up late rather than early :op
@RоryMcCune heya
@LucasKauffman watcha, that you all done with exams for now?
@RоryMcCune no tomorrow I have security management, ISO27k1, BCM, Audit, Data Privacy Act and risk management
@LucasKauffman blech :(
it's all essay writing and sometimes borderline philosophical
"how risk assessment is part of each PCDA item"
10:32
@LucasKauffman yeah a lot of that kind of stuff gets very ivory tower. Useful to use as a basis for other thinking though
once you understand the principles, they can then be applied to practical concerns..
@RоryMcCune yea true, it did change my perspective on risk governance
@LucasKauffman that was me just getting home after a gig
@RоryMcCune The thing is because it's the university of London, I get to study all UK regulations instead of EU regulations :(
@LucasKauffman and just before our delightful new government change them too
@RoryAlsop I saw that on FB, nice shot :)
@RoryAlsop LOL
@RоryMcCune also I also sometimes feel liking Im stating the obvious, and actually get rewarded points for that and deducted if I dont
@RоryMcCune It was sort of an accident, but I went with it. Last some og the set, Hammstein, and just as I got the fire lit my guitar strap fell off - which meant some bits would have been difficult to play...
So I went with showmanship rather than the usual solo - so there was some floor guitar, and silliness
The late home though - well, that was from dropping off two folks in Tranent, before Ingressing my way home :-)
@LucasKauffman yeah some of it is just straight common sense. that I don't mind too much, the ones that annoy me are where you have to state something that isn't true in practice but is in theory
@RoryAlsop always a good time for some nice quiet ingressing I'd guess...
@RоryMcCune oh yes :-)
almost at level 15 - could do it this month if I push.
10:41
@RoryAlsop what's the level cap these days?
@RоryMcCune oh god, liike the whole Harisson Ruzo Ulman, Bell Lapadulla, Brewer Nash, Biba models
NO ONE EVER USES THEM
except the military
@RоryMcCune 16 is the max. I need 24 million AP for 15, and I'm on 22.something. For 16 it's 48 million...
@LucasKauffman and even there probably not consistenly.
@RoryAlsop what are you guys talking about
@LucasKauffman Always liked the Biba, Bell LaPadula combination - which almost can never work in real life
@LucasKauffman Ingress
www.ingress.com
10:42
@RoryAlsop wow well I guess something to aim for :)
@RоryMcCune We have 2 L16's in Scotland - there's only a couple of hundred worldwide
@RoryAlsop no read up, no write down, no write up, no read down, you're basically stuck on one security level and the inflexibility of the model makes sure you can't get that changed :P
@LucasKauffman lol
it was on the exam
very segregated - but they use that model in some areas
10:44
The only model Ive seen in real life is maybe Clark Wilson
@LucasKauffman can't remember which one that is
basically you give a subject access to a set of programs to access objects, so there is no direct access from a subject to an object. This means it's easier to regulate access to sensitive information. It's largely what the IBM iSeries are based on.
@LucasKauffman ah - yes. Definitely more common than the others on your list :-)
quickly all commit to this so it can go to beta: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/67858/law
11:21
Other notable members of the Singh family: Ray - Formula 1 Driver Polly - Detective Dan - Choreographer Di - Chef Lee - Property Developer
11:32
liliputing.com/2015/05/… <- you can get some nice tablets for cheap these days. that one same form factor as an iPad, windows and android under £200
11:57
@RоryMcCune "nice"
though the dualboot tablet is an intersting idea
@AviD well quad core atom with 2GB RAM, 32GB storage, high-res screen, 3g, GPS for sub £200 ain't bad..
@RоryMcCune actually yeah, I admit I did not look in detail before posting that
12:25
@RоryMcCune @LucasKauffman elements of those esoterica are actually used more often than you'd think, but in some niche sections of a system, not the main AC model for the whole system.
@RоryMcCune did I mention I bought a surface 3 pro with 128 gb ssd, 4gb of ram and an i5 for 550 euros? I think it's a shop mistake, so might be that they cancel the order.
e.g. take a look at windows integrity levels, or SE linux
@LucasKauffman yeah that does sound super cheap, more surface than surface pro money...
@LucasKauffman but then there's a rumor that the surface pro 4 is about to appear, so maybe they're running down their stock...
omg, really?
I think it may be time for me to get one.
I didnt note that they keyboard needs to purchased seperately :(
12:30
just have to decide if to go for the supercheap SP3, or wait for the upgraded 4....
@AviD if ya want GSM then the non-pro sounds like the one for you as it has that option..
@LucasKauffman oh yeah the keyboards are nice, but not exactly cheap...
@RоryMcCune yea I noticed, was a bit disapointed by that, are there any other/better keyboards from third parties?
@RоryMcCune yeah I really wish they would stick the GSM / LTE on the pro, there is no good reason for forcing a decision between high end and data channel.
@LucasKauffman I've not done too much digging on that one TBH. the MS one kind of integrates well with the device (magnetic clip-on, powered via the device etc)
@AviD yeah people seem to have got the idea that pro==laptop==noGSM and non-pro==tablet==GSM
which is weird really
yeah, why do laptops not have gsm nowadays?
well since I'm usually on wifi, I would just fallback to phone tethering when necessary. not worth downgrading the device, I would be looking for a laptop replacement.
12:35
@AviD well high-end corp ones do sometimes, but I guess the majority of consumer laptops do not
for all you crazy gun fans - @RoryAlsop @Adi @LucasKauffman @Iszi (and who else was it?)
tank commander pic
13:12
@AviD mmmm - fire!
 
1 hour later…
14:39
@AviD Sunday driving eh?
@Rhino heh. not my picture...
and if it was, it would be lots bigger.
I should scan some of my old army pics.
@AviD I forgot, rockets and artillery, not just a measly tank. The tank's just for quick grocery trips and the like, right?
@AviD I'm guessing they'd prefer you don't...
@AviD @RоryMcCune I've seen a few with 3/4g slots
the thing is, though, from my personal point of view the cost of an extra sim is just too huge. I'd go with phone tethering.
15:06
@Rhino right, exactly.
@Rhino well that tank pic was from the IDF's PR twitter account, so....
also there was one of me in the newspaper, so thats not exactly secrets
@Rhino some telcos offer data-only sims. for, like, yknow, tablets and such.
@AviD yeah I know... even if it is cheaper than a mobile contract, it's still mob+extra
@AviD I see...
@Rhino true. I guess I've gotten used to how ridiculously cheap it is here.
@AviD yeah if I had a sim for every device that could take one... I'd be bankrupt pretty fast
15:21
hmm, I wonder if it might even be cheaper for you to get an israeli sim, and just use that on the "international" plan.
nah, the data plan probably not big enough.
 
4 hours later…
18:54
@LucasKauffman wow that's a really dumb law. doesn't the UK have protections on speech?
@Ohnana wassat?
the computer misuse act. technically you can't even talk about security?
brb need my other OS
you'll need to give me some context here
this is RISA? what is it?
RIPA = regulation of investigatory powers act, i.e. spy law
for a long while, until clarified, there was some confusion as to whether key disclosure constituted a reversal of the burden of proof
that is, if the government said "decrypt this" you had to prove you could not if you could not
it turns out not to be the case but it was in doubt for a while
19:01
oh good lord
in any case, my point in highlighting this was that there is a UK law which allows the government to compel you to decrypt anything
wouldn't that be incriminating yourself?
depends
refusal to do so is a criminal offence too
wow. that's a constitutional right in the US
if a police officer asks me a question, i can refuse to answer with no penalty
there's an exception for DUI traffic stops because public safety but mostly unless there's a warrant or something we don't have to comply or answer questions
@Ohnana keep reading that page - the government argued (and won) that disclosing cryptographic keys was not self incrimination
19:05
well that's some logic gymnastics
handing over evidence is pretty much the definition of self-incrimination
@Ohnana I think it very much depends on the case - I suspect depending on circumstances judges might see it that way. Self incrimination is protected - I'm just not legal enough to understand the various nuances.
same
However my point being I don't think the computer misuse act is the only slightly odd UK law
fair enough
the free speech laws are a little strict to me, but ya know
@Ohnana the RIPA has come under fire for other reasons too
I'm not sure if it was that law that extended detention for terrorism, but there was a big fuss about that
basically, like any sane country the UK police have a fixed length of time they can hold you before they either charge you, let you go or ask a judge to extend the time for a suitable reason - back in 2004ish Tony Blair wanted (and I think succeeded) in allowing police to hold terrorism suspects for longer
19:12
@Rhino yeah the US is pulling that bullshit too
The Terrorism Act 2006 is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that received Royal Assent on 30 March 2006, after being introduced on 12 October 2005. The Act creates new offences related to terrorism, and amends existing ones. The Act was drafted in the aftermath of the 7 July 2005 London bombings, and some of its terms have proven to be highly controversial. The government considers the Act a necessary response to an unparalleled terrorist threat; it has encountered opposition from those who feel that it is an undue imposition on civil liberties, and could increase the terrorism risk...
19:25
@Ohnana a new user to SE has answered with what I was trying to find. @RoryAlsop is right, intent in the UK often matters. For example, it wouldn't be enough to say "downloaded wireshark, clearly guilty". The prosecution still have a burden of proof that says "this person is actually guilty, beyond reasonable doubt" and the CPS (Justice Department, in US terms) wouldn't put a case before the court if they didn't think they had a chance of prosecution.
The implication and the fact the dual-use nature isn't also in the law is kinda crazy.
19:42
@Rhino U.S. has crazy silly laws? Noooooooo?
@LucasKauffman No the UK. The US I just look at and go... wat?
@LucasKauffman $country has crazy silly laws? Noooooooo?
oh my god
just saw someone post a picture of her credit card with the question what her cvc code is on facebook
@Gilles true, does france still have some hidden guillotin laws?
@NeedADebitCard
Please quit posting pictures of your debit cards, people.
241 tweets, 17.7k followers, following 0 users
@LucasKauffman I doubt it, the death penalty has been unconstitutional for a while
@Gilles In belgium we still had the death penalty until recently, but in practice it was always converted to life in prison for the past 50 years or so
19:52
it's possible that some laws regulating executions are still on the books even though executions can't happen
ah the last person who was executed in Belgium, aside from military execution for collaboration was in 1863
@LucasKauffman In France the last execution was in 1977. The death penalty was outlawed in 1981. The last condemnation was in 1981, the law was changed before the execution could have taken place.
and the very last one was in 1918 with an imported guillotine
In the UK IIRC it's still there for treason
@RоryMcCune only if you leave the EU
19:55
ah no I'm wrong it got converted to life in prison
@Gilles well I'll be ok I'm not in Tory England, I'm in SNP scotland :)
Capital punishment in the United Kingdom was used from the creation of the state in 1707 until the practice was abolished in the 20th century. The last executions in the United Kingdom were by hanging, and took place in 1964, prior to capital punishment being abolished for murder (in 1965 in Great Britain and in 1973 in Northern Ireland). Although not applied since, the death penalty was abolished in all circumstances in 1998. In 2004 the 13th Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights became binding on the United Kingdom, prohibiting the restoration of the death penalty for as long as...
@RоryMcCune death by the sword?
You'd have to denounce protocol 13 of the ECHR, which the UK has ratified
The death penalty has been completely abolished in all European countries, except for Belarus and Kazakhstan. The absolute ban on the death penalty is enshrined in both the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (EU) and the European Convention on Human Rights of the Council of Europe, and is thus considered a central value. Of all modern European countries, San Marino and Portugal were the first to abolish capital punishment, whereas only Belarus and Kazakhstan still practice capital punishment in some form or another. In 2012, Latvia became the last EU Member State to abolish capital...
@Gilles I believe the tories are currently planning to just withdraw from the whole ECHR and replace it with a "british bill of rights" whatever that is
however it may be that their withdrawal would not apply to Scotland as it's a devolved area...
@RоryMcCune until the banks come along and say nay
that's what happened before
@LucasKauffman banks won't care about ECHR, they only care about single market stuff
and not being taxed
19:59
@RоryMcCune they're affraid of the pressure they might receive
@RоryMcCune that's also why iirc $large_bank_of_rory said no to scottish independence, because they were affraid to be binned by the eu
@LucasKauffman possibly with the current setup after the UK election, the tories are now committed to an in-out referendum on the EU
and a sizable portion of their party want out...
@RоryMcCune not being taxed (or regulated) creates conflicting interests: they want the EU for the common market and lack of taxes, but they don't want strong government either, so they're against EU-wide legislation
@RоryMcCune England and Wales could become peripheral regions that are not part of the EU, like the Falklands and the Channel Islands
@Gilles yeah they're basically against things that stop them following their agenda, so anti-immigration and bank friendly... Also UK media has used the EU as a fall-guy for a ton of bad stuff for ages
@Gilles heh
yea I was wondering about that I saw people at EY from the channel islands
what the hell are the channel islands?
however I'm sitting in my office with a Glen Livet watching a deer crop the grass so alls good with me :)
20:02
@LucasKauffman islands just off the coast of France, in the Channel, that England never gave back
@LucasKauffman jersey guernsey and sark
The Channel Islands (Norman: Îles d'la Manche, French: Îles Anglo-Normandes or Îles de la Manche) are an archipelago of British Crown Dependencies in the English Channel, off the French coast of Normandy. They include two separate bailiwicks: the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey. They are considered the remnants of the Duchy of Normandy, and are not part of the United Kingdom. They have a total population of about 168,000 and their respective capitals, Saint Helier and Saint Peter Port, have populations of 33,500 and 16,488, respectively. The total area of the islands is 194 km2...
a weird "crown protectorate" who get all the benefits of belonging to the UK but can set their own tax laws it appears and as a result get use for tax dodging a lot
@RоryMcCune ah like luxembourg is to Belgium?
@LucasKauffman yeah that kind of thing
20:04
seriously, all my colleagues from EY Luxembourg are Belgians, Frenchies or Germans, I really wonder what normal luxembourgians do
@RоryMcCune just in case that didn't work there are backups: gibraltar and the isle of man.
we built redundancy into our offshoring system!
@Rhino yeah the Isle of Man is a really weird one too, they have their own bank notes (did a job there and ended up with an unspendable fiver!)
doesnt the isle of man also not have a speed limit?
@LucasKauffman I actually have this problem with scottish notes from time to time. Luckily banks do take them and exchange them.
but shops can be funny about it. Mind you, they can also be funny about £50 notes.
@LucasKauffman they have the Isle of Man TT every year.. dangerous race from all I've heard
@Rhino or $2 notes in the US
20:09
@LucasKauffman yes but it's not a very big place to the chance of getting really fast before ending up in the irish sea is quite small
I actually don't know, I just wanted to say that
@RоryMcCune yeah it was there for treason for a very long time... but in practice I think the last execution was 1953 or something like that
@RоryMcCune Are you implying election promises are actually carried out here Rory?
C'mon!
@Rhino they'll do that one 'cause Cameron will have a party revolt on his hands if he doesn't...
the ones made to the electorate are a different matter altogether :)
@RоryMcCune He's between a rock and a hard place for sure.
@Rhino yah unless the EU help him out by making some "concessions" that allow him to claim victory and then campaign to stay in it...
@RоryMcCune I think he'll campaign to stay in it anyway.
Also I cannot wait to see how their pet newspapers the Torygraph and the Daily Fail contort themselves into backing him if he wants to stay in
given that they've been blaming pretty much everything that goes wrong in the UK on the EU for a loonnng time now
20:20
But rightly or wrongly, I think he's got a mountain to run up. Over 1/8 of voters voted for UKIP - a party with no experience and essentially standing on the single issue of leaving the EU.
@RоryMcCune I don't think they will - I think they'll back whoever leads the out campaign
@Rhino oh yeah when it comes around I struggle to see them get people to vote for staying in.. and then the SNP will use that as a catalyst for a new indy referendum...
so we can get the weird setup of scotland in the EU and england out of it
:)
@RоryMcCune I dunno if it'd get as far as a new indyref. I'm not even sure the EU referendum will actually materialize
@Rhino well my money is on the ref. appearing, the SNP make it a redline that each part of the UK has to approve it for it go to through. that really pisses of the London Tories (May, Johnson etc) they refuse, that triggers indyref 2
which if the general election is anything to go by will have a different result from last time...
especially once the £12 billion of new cuts kick in
@RоryMcCune they'd have to get that clause - majority in all areas - into the bill though and for that they still need to win out in the commons. They're gonna need allies for that - probably including tories, since if the tories vote as a block and all turn up, their law goes through.
@Rhino oh yeah in a straight commons vote the tories win every time.. but the SNP will howl for a new indyref and can make the them look pretty bad for not offering it, but yeah ultimately they can't get it with current legal thinking
20:30
@RоryMcCune indeed. I'm not sure if there's the appetite to hold another one. Cameron allowing it last time was a political move, like allowing a vote on voting change but pushing AV instead of STV or a sensible PR system. Defuse the vote by allowing it to fail, then claim to be respecting the outcome of the vote.
Of course, it almost didn't end up that way in Scotland...
@Rhino my reckoning is the only reason they let the last one happen is they didn't think it had a chance of success...
got them a nasty shock that's for sure..
@RоryMcCune that's exactly why they did it - not only does it make them look nice for allowing it, but also it makes them seem to be backing the majority opinion by supporting the outcome
but yeah, that line of reasoning nearly came back to bite them in quite a big way...
20:48
wonder if a grey suit would suit me
21:21
lol RBS, Barclays, JP Morgan and Chase, Citigroup and UBS are guilty of FOREX fraud
3 billion USD fine for RBS and Barclays

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