its okay, it was from before you were born.

I do prefer living with guys though

less drama?

less makeup?

living alone is getting boring, and living with other women is just a nightmare

@AviD I miss Ritter

less competition for guys?

how to turn a group of close friends into murder suspects

wait scratch that last one, might not always be the case.

His role in Bad Santa was awesome.

the other 2 also, I guess

@AviD definitely less drama

I'm not really one for painting on my face anyway but living with other woman has its advantage here since you gain access to a much larger selection of makeup

and you never run out of tampons

so, basically the same as living with @Ohnana.

BOOM

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that

and when you live with guys

the next time someone calls me a woman I'm gonna eat their face

@Flyk that @Ohnana is a girl.

nobody cares that you're sat downstairs in your pyjamas playing burnout at 3am

AVIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID

@Ohnana ohh how romantic

@Ohnana you're not a woman?

sigh

@Ohnana also, why are you acting insulted?

I'm attempting to transition to male. I'm going to gender counselling soon

you know the threshold for the switch between girl and woman is somewhere around 16-18

really?

you would want to be a man?

@Flyk don't you start with this crap

it's not crap, it's a completely legitimate question

I am not trying to offend you and for a brief moment of time you will get the most sensible me the DMZ has ever seen

but... WHY?

what goes through the head of somebody thinking about making that switch?

@Flyk have you ever worn shoes that are too small?

@Ohnana yeah, literally every time I put on shoes

my shoes are too small and they hurt to walk in.

@Ohnana so get bigger shoes?

everyone says they're the best ever, and they HURT

@Ohnana Buy bigger shoes?

I need to take them off

okay NOW the DMZ is really weird.

(the shoes are a metaphor for how society views me)

@Ohnana fuck everyone. get bigger shoes.

@Arperum that's why I'm starting counseling

@Arperum funny, thats what your mom was planning too. She's not up to the shoes yet.

I never understand why people where uncomfortable shoes/clothing.

@Ohnana Good on you!

I don't understand why you'd change gender, but if it'll make you happier, go for it. Make sure to not do anything stupid and irrevenrsible if you aren't 200% certain though.

@Ohnana so society makes you feel awkward enough that you want to stop being you and be somebody else?

@raz if the shoes are really that sexy and perfect, my pain is tolerable

it's so sad that society breaks so many people

@Flyk shoes are things that stop your feet getting wet and stop sharp stones from digging into them... that's about it

@RоryMcCune that's not true

@Flyk that's a matter of perspective

I've proven this, with clothing rather than shoes

the world hates me if I wear baggy clothing

the world wants in my pants if I wear tight sexy clothing

baggy clothing for life

@RоryMcCune Also: they help against burning your feet on blazing hot asphalt in the summer.

@Arperum well not in scotland, but I could see that being true elsewhere

> My name is Carson, I work for Ec2 Security a company that focuses on IT security for companies in the developing world. I would like to ask if you are interested in contracting work on an Ad Hoc basis?

shoes also help augment your height

Seems legit

Totally

some shoes also provide you with a weapon that can get through airport security

Is he a prince too?

@RоryMcCune Belgium is not all that tropical either.

@Ohnana being a woman is not life in easymode

there are a long list of perks, but it's definitely not easy

I still wouldn't trade it in for easymode though

@Flyk congrats, you're comfortable with your gender identity

that's where I'm trying to get

what stops you from being comfortable?

@Flyk THE SHOES

werent you listening at all?

THE SHOES?!

I was, but you lost me at shoes

shoes are in my list of favorite things

excuse me I'm going to pick through the wreckage of my metaphor and look for survivors

basically, you don't like being you

why don't you like being you?

@Ohnana yeah, if you're going on a cruise you do need to buy appropriate shoes for that.

I'm sure you are fantastic and unique in your own special way

with all of your fantastic quirks and nuances

@Flyk being fantastic and unique and special are overrated.

and more fantastic so you realize how fantastic I mean

@Simon That's not how it works. Without proper verification the gender of the individual in question is not specifically stated. Instead it is assumed to be that of the popular opinion of the party.

@AviD no they're not

as are quirks and nuances.

One can be a wonderful person without all that.

@ScottPack Since nobody seems to have an opinion, I believe that my own represents the party's.

@AviD no you can't

you'd just be another emotionless drone without your uniqueness

@Flyk I don't like the identity other have built for me, so I'm making my own. and that involves changing.

@Flyk just like everybody else

@Ohnana Why did you let somebody else anywhere near your identity? Your identity is yours, nobody else has the right to dictate it

@AviD if I thought I was "like everybody else", I'd probably kill myself

@Flyk well, that ship sailed when they looked at my crotch in vitro

wat

hence the F on my driver's license

@Ohnana so you don't like being a woman?

@Flyk then you wouldnt be

@Flyk it's not for me.

well, like the minority everybody else.

@Ohnana do you have short hair?

@Flyk yes?

and you wear baggy clothes?

@Flyk short hair =/= male

@Simon I would instead postulate that in the absence of unified consensus we must assume either full reproductive hermaphroditic or biologically non-gendered.

@Flyk not really.

@Arperum no, not at all

@Arperum true, but long hair => female

;-)

@AviD Doesn't a mullet count as female?

@ScottPack Works with me!

@Ohnana do you prefer to play around with computers than hang out with friends?

@raz No, that's just bad taste.

@ScottPack full-reproductive hermaphroditic doesn't actually exist

@AviD Not to me. ALthough that link is made way too much.

in humans at least

@Arperum just on you.

@Ohnana Then how do you explain Cartman?

@Flyk i like both. Why are you grilling me on my adherance to stereotyping?

@Ohnana You could be the first one.

@ScottPack HA!

@Ohnana I'm not grilling or stereotyping

actually I may be grilling

not on purpose though

well, yes on purpose

@Flyk just a teeny bit lol

mmh, brain failure

@Flyk ooh we could really use some sterotypical grilling over here. Some steaks, a couple of burgers....

@AviD pls

dammit now I want burgers

It's 9:20 AM and I'd eat a burger right now.

@AviD Dammit now I want burgers and beer.

@Ohnana don't worry, I feel just as awkward in asking

@AviD have you ever had bison burgers? it's like a softer version of venison

@AviD I especially dislike it when parents tell their kids that long hair is for girls, and then these kids come to you "are you a girl?" "Nope" "But you hair is long." "Boys can have long hair too"

@Flyk and thats supposed to make it okay??

@Ohnana Bison is pretty delicious.

@Ohnana no :-(

I love me some bison in my mouth.

I have major problems asking many of the questions I want to ask, because if I were asked them they'd be completely inappropriate and I'd have issues with even being asked

it is kosher though, so someday

also, Id heard it is tougher than venison?

@AviD Pretty sure that's false.

@Arperum I'm actually not a fan of guys who have hair even remotely as long as mine

Buffalo beef is pretty awesome.

fair enough

yeah, definitely going to a bar for lunch today.

it's less about the stereotype though and more about personal preference

@Flyk no prob. there are all questions I tortured myself with in high school

@Ohnana I prefer sharp objects and heat.

@Ohnana so you're 19+ and you're still considering what to do?

at least you're not rushing to a conclusion

@AviD teeny hipster restaurant near me has it. tons of veggie dishes and then, BAM bison. I got the baked chevre though

@Flyk 19 is still quite young decide your future.

and high school is torture

@Simon good to know, I will keep that in mind

High school is fine if you hang out with the right people.

@Flyk DISHFIUDSF

@Flyk This. My hair comes to ~halfway my back, and I like it that way, I accept that other people might not like that, I personally don't care, I don't like a lot of things other people do either, but it's their choice.

@Ohnana I owe you an apology. We shouldnt poke fun at sensitive topics.

except for @Simon's face.

and his mom.

@Flyk well, it depends on when you get the "ooooooh shit" moment when you realize. and then it's just how long you can stick it out

@AviD yes you shouldn't

@AviD Are you gonna edit your own post?

You donut.

@Ohnana Sounds like my first time.

@Simon which one?

@AviD if I can't laugh at myself, how can I laugh?

@AviD Any way you want, I love how you work anyway.

@Ohnana I entered the conversation thinking I could help, but if I'm honest with you I am heavily biased against men and I'm struggling to comprehend, so I should probably just set fire to myself

I am still stuck at "why"

BOOM.

Hang on - I go for a quick walk and there's 285 new messages?!

@AviD fml

and ultimately I have no right to question you on it

worth reading the full transcript?

@RoryAlsop yeah, its been slow

@Flyk the fact that you can actually talk to me as a person means that you don't have the blind hate that is permanent

@Simon heh. You're fun.

@Ohnana my hatred isn't blind but it is justified in my particular circumstances

and "why" is something you answer when you're in that situation. it's okay to be stuck, you don't have this issue

it's been quite a few years though and I've kinda dealt with most of it and put it behind me

@Ohnana oh @Flyk has the blind hate. Lots of it. Just not pointed at you.

I prefer not to have blind hate. I'd like to see my enemies suffer.

@AviD eh, she just hasn't found the right thing to hate me for

lol

@Ohnana well sure, but I know how frustrating not knowing where your place in the world is

@Ohnana She hates men because she pays attention to what they say, and not what they do.

reads up

@Ohnana heh

wait for it

That's her main mistake.

@JourneymanGeek sounds very ISIS like :p

@Simon wut

@Simon I pay attention to what they say and do, averaged across every man I've ever met

@Lucas'Paul'Kauffman: Naw, I have very few living enemies ;p

@Flyk If you paid attention close enough to what they do then you would have known it was a nono.

@Flyk ... and applied to those you havent.

what they say and do are two totally different things with very little correlation between them

nono-simon

@Flyk Exactly.

@Simon she means it the other way around.

@AviD yes, and this is a protection mechanism far more than anything else

mostly because she hangs out with sleazebags.

^

if you look hard enough, every man is sleazy in some way

@Flyk i got that feeling from you. just remember to treasure the good people when you see them

You can learn so much by simply stalking someone's Facebook profile.

@Flyk sounds like the NSA. "If you look hard enough, everyone is breaking the law".

@Simon You can learn so much by stalking someone*

A girl is taking whore pictures? You know what to expect, boy.

@raz Well, yeah.

@Simon Those PJ's you got on are lookin' good ;)

@Flyk If you are going that way, you can make that every person is sleazy in some way.

@Simon: that you're judging someone? ;p

@Ohnana I'm a bit backwards like that, I expect anybody worth hanging out with to see the good streak in me behind all of the hate and tolerate me until I accept them

@raz wat

which is why the whole of SE hates me, except the DMZ

I'm wearing PJs at work?

^_^

@Flyk ah. The classic but misguided "if you cant handle me at my worst, you dont deserve me at my best." ?

@AviD it's not misguided

@AviD me acting my worst will bring out the worst in any bad people

@Flyk no, we dont see the good streak, its just that we cherish the bad.

well fuck you then

hehe

@AviD When the worst is 90% of the time without any good reason then yeah, F that.

at least @Simon loves me

Sounds like my ex.

@Flyk wat

@Simon right? thats the misguided part.

@AviD the definition of "worst" changes the meaning of that

did I say Simon, I meant nobody

when worst = the ugly side of disease and mental illness, it's true. when worst = abuse, go fuck yoself

@Flyk Oi!

like in 50 shades of grey, she supposedly loves him because he is so wonderful even though he is so horrible like 100% of the time.

There is currently a wee video doing the rounds on YouTube where they ask boys and girls of various ages to 'run like a girl', 'throw like a girl' etc. Up until about 14yo, it's the same as a boy. From 14, it becomes the stereotypical 'weak throw' etc. Then they asked the girls to 'run like you' and they ran powerfully. Interesting culture impact at that point of puberty - from the media, mostly

@Ohnana exactly

@RoryAlsop mythbusters did this too

@RoryAlsop yes, that was lovely.

professional baseball players throw the same regardless of gender

@RoryAlsop well right because up until 14 they have the same strength.

Not our fault they throw flimsy after that.

Blame softball for the underhanded pitching.

@raz professional baseball players also throw the ball at similar speeds, regardless of gender

@RoryAlsop did they account for the development of empathy? aka "everyone is like me because undeveloped brain"

@raz Girl in my year competed in Commonwealth games - javelin and shot putt. She could throw me further than I could throw a ball, probably

Huh. @RoryAlsop I think I best leave for a while before I start kickbanning the misogynists here.

She was nails!

@AviD i h8 women

@AviD where? what?

dey suk

only if asked politely

@AviD I'm hoping it's not serious

@Flyk hahahaha

@RoryAlsop not sure. It's subtle.

if it was blatant, I would believe that.

@AviD hmmmmm - good point

wat

also, when the blatant jokes are covering for the subtle not-jokes....

@AviD I was joking if that wasn't clear

am I about to get banned for hating on men?

that would be a little typical

hide yo stars hide yo rep they bannin errybody in hurr

@Flyk heh. Would probably be genderist to only do that one-way, wouldnt it now

fwiw, I assumed raz meant nothing by it

@AviD my hatred of men isn't about them being different from me

there is no sexism

wut

@Flyk we've already determined Rories DMZ denizens aren't average

@AviD I can't elaborate further, it's not something you discuss and I don't really just want to blurt it out

I hate men because several men early in my life earned my hatred

many of the most hateful men arent hateful because women are different. Its because they dont agree to give them sex on demand.

and I just haven't got around to getting over it fully

@Flyk that is fair. However, drawing a correlation from that to "all men" IS genderist, by defintion.

or sexist, if you prefer.

@Flyk ah, the subconscious mind. really helpful at protecting you until it jumps the shark

@AviD there was a point in my life where "all men" was completely accurate, and to date no other man has been opposite to that enough to balance it out

@Flyk replace "men" with "assholes".

yes all assholes.

@AviD all assholes are assholes?

true

at this point in my life, it's basically manifested itself as severe mistrust to all men

exactly.

probably provable

guys, you are all looking at this from the wrong angle

@Ohnana they always do

@Ohnana sometimes that helps ;-)

no man wants to be included in "all men"

and that's fair enough

@Ohnana Wait is there side-boob somewhere?

@Flyk I can't see it from another angle without a mirror...

@raz check yer mum

@Ohnana OH SNAP

@Ohnana lol

so anyway

enough serious conversation

the boys are struggling to stop sniggering

traumatic experiences get written to the lizard brain, which doesn't care about higher level functions like "all members of out-group are unique"

@Flyk right, because you replaced "assholes" with "men".

you've confused the polarity.

@AviD at least @Ohnana gets it

@Ohnana bigger problem is how you define the group.

so no matter how much you SAY it's not true, lizard brain don't care. lizard brain has to let go of it

It's like hating "people". I hate "people", but it's the collective "people"

@Flyk yeah, sure, FOR NOW ;-)

and lizard brain cares about "i've been hurt, YOU DID THIS" while frontal lobes are like "man this is fucking dumb"

I have an issue with bodily contact and people being inside my personal space

hurhurhur snigger snigger

to the point where going on (for example) the London Underground, is a panic attack waiting to happen

@Flyk I get it. But as an engineer, my first reaction is 'sounds a wee bit broken, how can I fix it'

yet, I will have sex with people I like

@Flyk that, however, is normal - the tube is a nightmare

@RoryAlsop hahahaha

@RoryAlsop Better than DC Metro

I don't "hate" everybody, but every man has to try extra hard to overcome the initial hurdles

@Flyk it's trust.

@RoryAlsop you can't, nobody can

@raz I dunno, the London Tube is full of British people.

@AviD brave thing to say in "bear awake" time

@Flyk not from here, no. Jokes aside, most things are fixable - with time, trust and good people

hehehe

@AviD but it is still full

@AviD /cc @Gilles @ThomasPornin

@RoryAlsop yeah, I just need more time, and a good selection of guys

@Flyk ooo sounds like the midway point of this season's big romantic chick flick.

@AviD if it was empty, or I got to drive, I'd be happier with it

@Flyk cc @M'vy

so I can eat through them all and spit out the remains

@Flyk You sounded so positive up until that line :-P

Ah ah

@Flyk mmm human paste

@RoryAlsop psh, I know that I am super awkward to date

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!

half of the time I won't say where I am or where I'm going

I guess Brits don't want to be French at least as much as French don't want to be Brits

phone calls in the middle of the morning because I didn't pay attention to timezones

@M'vy s/brits/english/

forgetting birthdays and easters and christmases

@M'vy Hey, at least they're not Russian ;-)

actually, I don't forget christmas because hatdash

and I hate valentines day because I'm bitter

@Flyk well, at least you've got your priorities in order.

@AviD well I'm not catholic, so why would I celebrate christmas?

or easter

@RоryMcCune (yeah but OP specifically mention British people so)

or lent

or whatever other holidays

@Flyk lent is the dumbest church holiday

@Ohnana not Boxing Day?

@AviD isn't that the one where they gave presents to their servants?

I honestly would not know.

without looking it up on wikipedia, of course

@AviD Ahahaha

@M'vy yeah but OP is a yank so he doesn't count :)

@RоryMcCune meh, barely that

@RоryMcCune :)

@Flyk cake

@Flyk chocolate

@Flyk erm...pancakes?

@AviD still doing the annoying american Tax returns?

@RoryAlsop I don't need an excuse to eat cake, I run several miles a day, I will eat cake whenever I feel like eating cake

@RоryMcCune oof. fine. I'll give you that.

@RoryAlsop don't eat chocolate

@Flyk me too. Except for the running :-)

@RoryAlsop I don't like pancakes all that much

@RoryAlsop mmmm cabury's cream eggs

@Ohnana Oh man Easter is around the corner!

those things must have crack in them, SO GOOD

@Ohnana American Cadbury's is totally different to British Cadbury's

@Flyk out round the canals?

American Cadbury is basically Hershey's

@RоryMcCune there are canals in Des Moines?

@Flyk eww

@RоryMcCune who said anything about canals? I'm not telling you where I run...

@Flyk I've had actual cadbury's. dad brought some back for me. it was excellent and fuck hershey's for blocking import

I'm nearly up to 9 miles a day, though

@Ohnana the whole import block thing is so stupid

and skittles

@Flyk well it seemed logical based on your general location :op

American Skittles have nothing on EU skittles

@RоryMcCune you should stop doing that before I unleash the taylor swift/cia rendition team to remove you as a threat

@Flyk OMIGOD YOU GUISE EVRYTANG IS SOOO MUCH BETTER IN EU THAN MURKA

@AviD no, portion sizes in America

like, the only place on the planet that even I can gain weight

@Flyk coool. they can run into the MOD QinetiQ types from around here, that would be fun to watch

heh

Wooho! First day at the new job

@Adnan-Adi and yet you're on here

@Adnan-Adi gratz!

@Adnan-Adi and you're on the DMZ!! rookie error :op

@RоryMcCune inb4

guys, cmon, its priorities

really showing your age with that reaction time

@RоryMcCune I guess it's alright. This is "personal initiative knowledge gathering"

@Flyk well ya know old==slow

@Adnan-Adi good call

@Adnan-Adi connnnngrats!

winrar is you!