The DMZ

tylerl

02:53

@DavidFreitag that looks like shell commands, not Makefile

David Freitag

@tylerl It's makefile when it's wrapped in a $(shell ...)

AviD

08:45

@RoryAlsop w000t its catching on! Ya little porch monkey.

@Simon That makes no sense. What does that have to do with usability?

Rory Alsop

@AviD porch monkey? ;-P

oh - and good morning

AviD

It's okay, I'm taking it back.

good day, sir.

►

damn still funny

Rоry McCune

09:01

Morning All

AviD

@RоryMcCune I said Good day!

Rоry McCune

@AviD And a good day to you sir

AviD

►

Rоry McCune

@AviD now there, I'm busy today, none of that youtube linking!

AviD

hehe

just excited to have my proper machine back!

now to rebuild aaalll those VMs...

Rоry McCune

09:05

@AviD did it go on a trip?

AviD

@RоryMcCune naw, my HDD crashed... just replaced it.

Rоry McCune

@AviD erkk, that's not a good thing... Seagate by any chance was it?

AviD

@RоryMcCune no, WD.

the green quiet ones.

and learning to follow my own adivce about better backups.

not just data, but machines.

Rоry McCune

@AviD ah, I'd been reading a post on HDD failure rates on the backblaze blogs and they had some shocking experiences with Seagate drives

@AviD ooh nasty...

AviD

was looking at RAIDing it this time, but @JourneymanGeek pointed me at Storage Spaces - btw @JourneymanGeek thanks tons for the tip, its looking great!

Rоry McCune

09:08

@AviD ah yeah, I could see that being good. My main work system is a laptop, so I have to rely on more basic backup techniques...

AviD

its very cool. I think of it as "virtual RAID".

though they very insistently avoid the term RAID...

Rоry McCune

09:20

@deed02392 mornin'

kalina

10:06

oh England, how I missed you

(not)

@AviD I have never had one of these fail

distant sound of my entire computer setup failing

Rory Alsop

do you reckon people put fake data in their profiles?

data.stackexchange.com/security/query/12011/the-elders

:-)

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop either that or the SE generation is really popular with nonagenarians

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune heh heh

AviD

@kalina well, first time for me too.

Rоry McCune

@kalina @AviD I remember trying out those ones, but I wasn't a great fan of the agressive spin down they did to save power, really seemed to slow things down (subjectively)

AviD

10:19

@RоryMcCune oh I'm sure they are slower.

but the difference in speed is trivial compared to the difference between even very fast HDD and SSD - so that slowdown can be ignored.

you want fast? put it on SSD. otherwise - just hush up and dont make noise.

@RoryAlsop I find it funny that @TheDoctor is not the oldest one there. He's off by like a factor of 10.

(almost)

Rоry McCune

@AviD well of course there have been some suggestions on WD greens that the aggressive parking can increase failure rates... blog.fosketts.net/2011/04/27/…

AviD

@RоryMcCune tl;dr, but I'm pretty sure that is based on years-old information

when the greens first came out they were inferior drives, slowed down to cover for their expected failure rates - but not enough.

will read the whole thing later though

deed02392

@RоryMcCune ohai

Journeyman Geek

@AviD: I tend to think of it as vaguely their answer to zfs/btrfs

deed02392

got far too many tabs open, hardly notice notifications here anymore unless i've got sound in

Rоry McCune

10:28

@deed02392 having fun with the super simple and straightforward web application that you're testing at the moment?

deed02392

@RоryMcCune sure, a handful of static pages. Dream test to be honest

AviD

@JourneymanGeek the RAID-ish parts, yes. Probably not as flexible, but hella more useful.

kalina

@RоryMcCune never had that problem, my RAID controller doesn't let them spin down

Rоry McCune

@deed02392 yeah it's nice where there's no massively complex set of cookies and heavy use of client-side JavaScript frameworks to make app scanning painful and false-positive prone

Journeyman Geek

@AviD: Oh, if you don't mind a slight speed hit, a lot more flexible IMO

kalina

10:30

saying that, when I rebooted my PC lastnight it made a scary noise

deed02392

@RоryMcCune haha! :-) c'mon it's still fairly early buddy

Rоry McCune

@deed02392 true true

AviD

@kalina thats probably your startup sound.

Journeyman Geek

I'm considering throwing a few VHDs on samba shares and trying them with storage spaces. Not fast, but a pretty hands off way of using storage across a few boxen

AviD

or maybe you were playing one of @Simon's tracks.

@JourneymanGeek SS is more flexible than zfs/btrfs? not that familiar with those advanced bits of those, I just assumed.

kalina

10:32

@AviD no, it was a "I am a moving component and I'm not spinning along the axis I'm supposed to be spinning on" sound

AviD

@kalina yeah, sounds like one of @Simon's tracks.

deed02392

@RоryMcCune need to keep reminding myself they're not invincible

kalina

basically, one of my fans glued itself stopped when I turned the pc off

Rоry McCune

@deed02392 well I think that got proven yesterday :)

Journeyman Geek

@AviD: If you're smart storage spaces works really well with VHDs

AviD

10:35

heh, that makes more sense.

Journeyman Geek

So you can carve out bits of existing disks

AviD

@JourneymanGeek please tell me how? I am in the midst of setting this up right now...

Journeyman Geek

@AviD: create and mount a VHD, don't format, add it to a storage space

AviD

@JourneymanGeek ah, you're talking about SS on top of VHD. I meant the other way around.

Journeyman Geek

Ahh no

AviD

10:36

@JourneymanGeek does that even work though?

@JourneymanGeek no, as in not a good idea?

Journeyman Geek

10:52

You mean running a VHD inside storage spaces?

(Both ways work, and I don't really see an issue. As I said, I may end up trying some nasty thing with remotely hosted VHDs if it'll work)

Rory Alsop

oh dear - too many issues:

0

Q: Android FIPS capable project

I want to create an Android FIPS Capable app (140-2 level 1). In the app I use network communications (Android SDK, HttpClient), encryption (bouncy-castle) and GCM (GooglePlayServices). How can I do it? As I understood from this post: FIPS Compliance for my Android project First step: I should...

Arperum

@RoryAlsop Yay for software requests! </sarcasm>

AviD

@JourneymanGeek yes. basically since I run all my systems as VMs, there are a lot of VHDs. and basically since SS now provides a (virtual) disk to the host system - I will wind up storing my VM's VHDs on the hosts's (virtual) disks on SS.

Journeyman Geek

ahh
SHOULD work. Actually probably supported on windows server

AviD

I know that could work, and I'm sure that individually there shouldnt be a substantial slowdown - just worried that accumatively there will be unnecessary slowdown due to unnecessary duplication of virtualization.

Journeyman Geek

11:04

Have seperate pools and turn off redundancy?

AviD

@JourneymanGeek yeah its explicitly mentioned as a use case. I'm just curious if there is a better way, since the storage is already virtualized.

Journeyman Geek

ahh, no idea there. Never really thought about it

AviD

@JourneymanGeek yeah maybe that. And do a passthrough of "physical" (i.e. SS virtual) disks straight to the VM?

Journeyman Geek

hmm. I have no idea about that

AviD

so instead of running a virtual disk inside a VHD, just have create a "virtual" disk on SS, and give that straight to the VM.

though backups then become more complicated again - instead of just copying the VHD have to resort to imaging again...

Journeyman Geek

11:08

Yeah.

AviD

meh, I notice that most of my problems come from when I try to be too clever. I should just stop that and go with the trivial defaults.

After all most software is designed to be best used by the sheeple anyway.

Arperum

11:33

@AviD You shoudl change your avatar to a sheep then too.

AviD

@Arperum Tiggers eat sheep for lunch.

And donuts for desert.

Sometimes if noone is looking, we'll just do extra donuts for lunch. And then more donuts for desert.

Rory Alsop

11:47

@AviD you're just saying that to scare @Simon

Oh - my youngest had a query, after I was discussing the merits of houmoussaria and mentioning that the only person I knew in Israel ate doughnuts:

> Is there such a thing as a houmous doughnut?

because she would eat it

AviD

urggh, does NOT sound good

sweet / savory, not a good mix

okay not really savory, but it goes best with savory

@RoryAlsop do you often discuss merits of houmoussaria?

Rory Alsop

@AviD she loves houmous more than anything else

AviD

@RoryAlsop hahaha, brilliant, bring her here

Rory Alsop

At some point I intend to bring the whole family - just needing threat levels to reduce a little (to a point at which SWMBO will agree to a visit)

AviD

ymean at work...?

oh politically?

is there a threat level here now?

Rory Alsop

11:55

her ideal party food is houmous and carrot sticks / bread sticks etc. Unlike all her friends, who like McDonalds

AviD

dont really watch the news...

though I do get an email from the US embassy once in a while...

@RoryAlsop hehe, nice. Typical here btw

or maybe some tehini to change things up a bit

Rory Alsop

@AviD I don't either, but there's a bit more trouble up north east of you guys - and while I'd be happy to fly over, she gets nervous

AviD

for the record, you should tell her that hummous goes great on burgers too.

Rory Alsop

@AviD oh - that could work. I could make venison burgers with a houmous topping

AviD

@RoryAlsop fair enough. it's not as peaceful as, say, NYC's Central Park. ;-)

Or even Paris :-S

Rory Alsop

11:58

@AviD just looked at that user - hahahaha

@AviD I know - but there's only so much risk enumeration I can talk through

AviD

@RoryAlsop hehe

Bruce Schneier actually does talk about the validity of security theatre in some scenarios. Like tourism.

Rory Alsop

@AviD yup

AviD

the truth is that tourists really ARE at increased risk, no matter where they go.

(if you discount the 80% of accidents happen within a mile of the home statistic...)

Rory Alsop

@AviD yup, but the actual risks of us holidaying in Tel Aviv when compared to the risk of holidaying in San Francisco are so close

AviD

slightly increased here

yknow, with all the risks of sunburn from laying out on the beach so much.

Rory Alsop

12:04

@AviD lol

Rory Alsop

12:27

@l0b0 the question is offtopic, as basically you have a quick rant about two sites with poor SSL and then infer this means they are dodgy companies. In reality CREST approval is considered the 'Gold Standard' for pen test companies in the UK, and Tiger provides approval to a wide range of pen-test courses. The threat models for them certainly won't have SSL as an essential

Sure, it would be better if they did sort it out, but it doesn't matter

It's not a security issue

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop ENCRYPT ALL THE THINGS!

3

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop although it is poor form.

@RoryAlsop and it would be astonishingly funny if someone MITMed one of those sites at a conf and re-wrote key sections. Not particularly high threat, but amusing nonetheless

AviD

12:44

@RоryMcCune I disagree. Since their sales model is based largely on their reputation, and this can potentially lead directly to a big hit on their reputation - if not the very existence of this issue - I would say that for them this should be high on their risk model.

Rоry McCune

@AviD hey it's t'other rory you're disagreeing with, he said it didn't matter :op

AviD

That said, pentesting companies don't necessarily sell to orgs that are particularly well-versed in security issues.

Rоry McCune

@AviD crest do

AviD

@RоryMcCune "Not particularly high threat"

@RоryMcCune I said "not necessarily"

Rоry McCune

@AviD yeah as an overall org, that's still more than "doesn't matter" ;op

AviD

12:45

@RоryMcCune and even CREST is mostly for gov type sites, no?

Rоry McCune

@AviD not really CREST co's are all (or at least most) of the big UK pen test companies, so do stuff for all sectors

e.g. CBEST is largely focused on the FS market

AviD

@RоryMcCune kinda proving my point for me here ;-)

Rоry McCune

@AviD I didn't say it wasn't important at all!

l0b0

@RoryAlsop It wasn't meant as a rant, and it certainly wasn't about their threat model, but rather the threat model of the companies accessing their web sites. I've clarified the question to include this.

Simon

@AviD Woooooow!

Arperum

12:56

Yay for social security site using SSL3 and browser telling it to go to hell.

AviD

@Simon TWSS

@Arperum they said social security. nothing about computer security.

I mean, its right there in the name.

and for that matter, they suck at the first, why wouldnt they at the other...

Arperum

13:23

@AviD Yup. And it doesn't help that there are two different things with nearly the same name.

AviD

two?

Simon

to?

AviD

I get soooo many requests on LinkedIn from people in so many different unrelated fields: "Oh I see you're also in [X] security..."

@Simon donuts.

Simon

I should add a picture to my LinkedIn account.

Arperum

@AviD way more actually but two that are relevant to my case (there are at least 5, based on politic preference, Belgium is wierd)

But thetwo relevant ones are basically called vnz and nzvl, where the second one was earlier known as vnz. And to add insult to injury: I've already got a letter from one of them in an envelop from the other one.

both of them are supposed to be politically and religiously neutral.

AviD

13:28

oh - I thought you were talking about "security".

paj28

I'm famous!

►

AviD

@paj28 you the bearded guy with the plaid shirt right in front of the camera?

Arperum

@AviD Wait? You think Belgium has anything remotely "secure"?

AviD

@Arperum YOU were talking about "social security"

Terry Chia

@Arperum Yo momma.

paj28

13:35

@AviD - yep, that's just before my talk starts

AviD

@paj28 oh ha! I was kidding, assumed you were the guy talking

is eyefi a commercial product?

paj28

yeah, SD card with integrated wireless

quite cool... and hopefully now secure :-)

AviD

sounds cool but pleeeeeze tell me thats not a marketing talk :-)

paj28

it's an OWASP talk... but with branding on my slides

AviD

@Simon I think @ScottPack has competition in the glorious beard department

paj28

13:39

make of it what you will :-)

Simon

@paj28 Look at you looking good.

@AviD Damn right.

Terry Chia

@ThomasPornin Hello. I have a crypto question for you. :) Are you aware of any general way of constructing a secure, authenticated streaming encryption API?

@paj28 SELLOUT! ;)

AviD

@paj28 I got that, branding is fine but are you trying to sell it in your talk, or talking about the cool tech? :-)

Simon

I wanted to grow a similar beard but I trimmed it earlier this week :(

paj28

@AviD - I'm talking about how to hack it

Simon

13:40

2 months of work, almost all gone.

AviD

@paj28 aaahhhh okay cool then.

paj28

There was a directory traversal flaw in the component you put on your laptop

AviD

wanted to know what I'm gonna watch before I watch it.

paj28

That lets someone on the same wireless network take control of your PC

AviD

@paj28 ouch!

Ohnana

13:41

@paj28 lmao

Arperum

@paj28 whoops.

Simon

@paj28 whoa

AviD

was also worried about the integrity of OWASP Manchester

paj28

see the video for more info

Thomas Pornin

@TerryChia At API level, I usually use a basic stream API (like java.io.InputStream+OutputStream, or .NET System.IO.Stream) with a couple of callback functions (or objects) to handle authentication.

AviD

13:42

thought maybe they do things differently over there ;-)

Terry Chia

@ThomasPornin Perhaps I should explain what I mean more clearly; for large datasets it may be useful to pass data into the encrypt or decrypt function in a streaming fashion instead of buffering it and passing it in all at once. Problem with this is that data decrypted in this fashion is unauthenticated until the last byte is received.

Thomas Pornin

@TerryChia Ah I see.

This is a protocol issue, not an API issue.

If you want to have authentication for partial data, you need to split the data into individual records, each with its own MAC, and the MAC should also cover the sequence number.

That's what SSL does.

Terry Chia

@ThomasPornin Yeah, that's what I thought. Is there something out there that describes implementing this for general encryption instead of a transport protocol like TLS?

It seems simple but I'm sure there are a lot of pitfalls. :)

Thomas Pornin

@TerryChia It is full of pitfalls.

In general, it cannot be done securely in abstracto.

Because it must rely on an initial negotiation that establishes the algorithms and keys, and details matter.

In practice, you have two existing models, SSL and SSH. Both do it wrong, but in different ways.

To do it somewhat right, you should have at least:
- A definite maximum record size
- Encrypt-then-MAC for each record (ideally, GCM or something similar)
- The MAC also covers an implicit record number (to detect missing, duplicated and reordered records)
- There is a definite, unambiguous, MACed "end-of-stream" record (the SSL "close_notify").

Terry Chia

14:06

@ThomasPornin I found a related crypto.SE question: crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/6008/…

Cheers for the knowledge as usual. :)

Tinned_Tuna

@ThomasPornin could be worse -- you could end up with WEP when you're trying to make a cipher system.

Rоry McCune

14:38

@AviD @paj28 I saw a pre-note of the talks they've got lined up for the next one in Feb, look really cool!

paj28

Yeah, OWASP Manchester, in the global heart of intercepting proxies!

Ohnana

@paj28 Manchester, UK i assume?

Rоry McCune

@paj28 actually I'd not thought of it like that, but it is!

AviD

@Ohnana is there another?

@RоryMcCune urggh, I really need to get to set up the next meeting here too...

Rоry McCune

@AviD 'tis cool, some have taken to livestreaming the meeting with things like google hangouts!

Ohnana

14:50

@AviD I live in a state that has a Bethlehem. I have to ask these things

Simon

@AviD It's an American behavior to believe that everything exists in 'MERICA.

AviD

@RоryMcCune we should try that...

though its all in hebrew anyway, so wouldnt help you - but others here might like it.

Ohnana

Manchester, New Hampshire

Manchester is the largest city in the state of New Hampshire, the tenth largest city in New England, and the largest city in northern New England, an area comprising the states of Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont. It was first named by the merchant and inventor Samuel Blodget (after whom the Samuel Blodget Park in Manchester North is named). Blodget's vision was to create a great industrial center similar to that of Manchester in England, which was the world's first industrialized city. It is located in Hillsborough County along the banks of the Merrimack River, which divides the city into eastern...

Rоry McCune

@AviD yeah IIRC you can log to Youtube at the same time...

Ohnana

we're quite a large country

AviD

14:51

@Simon and, if it exists in 'MERICA - THATS THE ONLY ONE THAT COUNTS

Ohnana

also we have ties to the UK, so we ripped off a LOT of names

New York, anyone?

TildalWave

Paris

Venice

...

Ohnana

@TildalWave Paris USA is a disambiguation page lol

TildalWave

@Ohnana Try Paris, TX

hmmm actually there's loads of Parises in US

Simon

@AviD Absolutely.

Ohnana

14:55

@TildalWave I know! that's why it's a disambiguation page. Paris is in 17 states

TildalWave

@Ohnana 18, you forgot about the one in France :P

Ohnana

@TildalWave france is a country not a state

unless they also chunk the country into states

is that a common division? i know canada does provinces

TildalWave

jeez en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_%28disambiguation%29

AviD

15:08

networks people: is there a substantial difference between static IP and fixed DHCP?

specifically for a AD DC, which is running a DNS server but not the DHCP - the router is doing that.

damn where is @ScottPack when you need him

@ScottPack probably got insulted because of what @Simon said about his beard.

TildalWave

@Ohnana Well France does have other territories throughout the world too, so I'd imagine it's ... convoluted

Simon

sowie

TildalWave

translate: sowie

(from German) as well as

thought as much :)

AviD

@TildalWave "sorry" (from Canadian)

translate: [pretty much anything at all]

(from English) * [pretty much anything at all] *

TildalWave

@AviD you mean as well as sorry? :)

AviD

15:16

(from Canadian) "Sorry"

(well, except for "donut")

TildalWave

translate: donut

(from English) donut

bah

Ohnana

@AviD i believe that the configuration for static IPs reside on the clients. fix DHCP means that the router assigns static ips based on the MAC it sees

static ips are also very finicky and evil

AviD

@Ohnana dur

I know THAT

I mean, I know what they ARE, and how they work. I meant, is there a substantial difference in effect, when dealing with DC / DNS server.

@Ohnana why do you think they are finicky?

if anything the fixed DHCP is more finicky. easier to manage, but also easier to fudge up.

Simon

dur

Ohnana

@AviD i've tried to do one on my linux server. occasionally it'll just change it's ip address or just not have hostname to ip translation on boot

AviD

15:19

and if you want to rely on the IP for anything - even say IPsec - youre sqrewed

@Ohnana that has to do with the DHCP client / DNS registration.

Ohnana

@AviD i see. I can fix the problem with dhclient so I figured it was something to do with that

although the ip migration is really the painful part

AviD

@Ohnana yeah, thats the one.

David Freitag

@Ohnana Funny, there's also a Manchester, Connecticut. It's where I was born.

AviD

so I realized that my DC was set up with fixed DHCP. That was all fine, until I had to rebuild the VM, and got allocated a different MAC - leading to a different IP. Took me a while to figure out why things were screwy...

Ohnana

oh thank god the us senate passed the climate change amendment. there is light in the darkness

AviD

15:25

lemme guess, they made it illegal to change the climate?

Ohnana

no they said it's real

woo.

David Freitag

@Ohnana What, so you believe everything anyone says about some mythical thing up in the sky?

Ohnana

@DavidFreitag i see your bait. I see it :P

David Freitag

@Ohnana :D

@Terry It turns out that git is just really really slow on windows.

Either that or something is wrong with my HDD.

Simon

Nah, it's #window.

David Freitag

15:32

I made the mistake of getting a velociraptor.

Simon

Yeah, what's up with that, you never watched Jurassic Park?

AviD

@DavidFreitag not really a problem for me, though I havent used it too much on windows yet.

but when I did it was near immediate.

what are you using?

David Freitag

@AviD It's easily 5-6x faster in a lube VM.

AviD

@DavidFreitag sure, its all the lube.

when I was using on windows it was mostly smallish projects, so that may have been a factor.

David Freitag

@AviD This: git-scm.com/downloads

Ohnana

15:34

@DavidFreitag i don't want to google that

AviD

then again I was doing it almost completely through VS, so they may have just put in a ton of optimizations.

David Freitag

@Ohnana Lubuntu VM

@AviD How many files in your repo?

Ohnana

@DavidFreitag k.

AviD

@DavidFreitag not many, maybe a few dozen. dont really remember.

Simon

@Ohnana You never lubricate VMs? Premature replacement incoming.

David Freitag

15:36

@AviD Yeah mine have a few hundred ~100-1000 line source files in them. It makes the windows git choke a little bit

AviD

I use mostly hg, though I am slowly starting to adopt git for some dev projects.

mainly thanks to the VS integration.

Simon

Remember when VS used to cost 10k?

Good old days.

AviD

@DavidFreitag yeah, I only used it on small ones. I did use the Mac client on larger ones, but then I would have to use a Mac.

David Freitag

@AviD I think that VS has adopted the good old windows delayed write tactics and made the entire process very transparent

AviD

@DavidFreitag how do you mean?

David Freitag

15:37

But checking out 500 files on windows takes a little under two minutes.

AviD

wat

David Freitag

exactly

AviD

thats not even on pull, right?

David Freitag

No that's git checkout some-branch

A pull takes not much more time since we have a pretty nice business class connection and it's really just the download speed on top of the checkout

AviD

@DavidFreitag yeah, thought maybe there was some lag there.

Ohnana

15:39

i've always wondered how git checkout works

David Freitag

@Ohnana I imagine git creates a patch for each commit starting with the most recent common ancestor and just rebases to the common ancestor and applies them.

Ohnana

@DavidFreitag i know some of those words

David Freitag

@Ohnana When you create a branch it basically creates an exact copy of the original repo, in this case the head of both branches is the common ancestor. If you add commits to the head of each branch (possibly very different commits) that commit is still the common ancestor

And I don't know if "rebase" is the right word for it, but basically git would have to reverse each commit past the common ancestor, then apply the patches for each commit on the branch being checked out.

Ohnana

@DavidFreitag oh I see. so it cascades changes to change the repo status

David Freitag

@Ohnana I wouldn't quote me on that, but it's one way it could be done.

AviD

15:47

@DavidFreitag it doesnt actually make a copy, it hardlinks to the original.

David Freitag

@AviD That makes more sense since there will always be a common ancestor.

AviD

@DavidFreitag always-ish. git does let you do some wonky things.

David Freitag

@AviD Oh, trust me, I know. I have done my fair share of ruining git repos

AviD

heh

one way to ruin git repos: expect them to behave like hg repos.

David Freitag

Like rebase to a commit before the common ancestor of several branches, push to remote and suddenly wonder why none of my branches work

raz

15:49

@AviD As an April Fools joke my friend removed all the white space from an entire repo and checked it back in.

The main guy didn't know how to revert.

Quite hilarious.

AviD

hahaha wat

raz

Hey the code compiles.

David Freitag

@raz That's so messed up

raz

lol

Ohnana

@raz is he still alive

raz

15:50

Best way to teach someone how to revert a repo without destroying functionality :D

AviD

heres another fun way: change all EOLs to LF only. nice way to screw with Windows guys.

raz

hahaha

David Freitag

How do you revert a repo properly? Everytime I do it everything breaks

raz

@DavidFreitag Then you done effed up.

David Freitag

@raz Yeah especially when you accidently push to remote and need to nuke the whole repo

AviD

15:51

@DavidFreitag in the whitespace case, you dont really need to revert the repo, just checkout the previous commit, and base all future commits on that.

David Freitag

@AviD So git checkout <sha> then just commit from there?

AviD

sure. so what if there is an extraneous commit just hanging off the tree...

'course a purist would want to cleanse it, but so what?

David Freitag

Heh, I do recall asking how to do it properly...

AviD

with all the things that could go wrong with a revert, why bother

@DavidFreitag oh I wouldnt know much about that. Ask @TerryChia.

David Freitag

I would consult google, but everytime I do that something goes horribly wrong and ends with me deleting a repo from Github.

Ohnana

16:05

I've flattened entire repos before. it's a really, really long and ugly command

you just keep stomping on git until it loses its marbles and then go from there

Simon

16:22

I've stayed away from git because it seems to be a damn mess.

I'm gonna have to learn it soon though.

deed02392

@Simon a mess??

Simon

Refer to the previous discussion.

deed02392

the thing is it's half easy enough to use without reading up on it properly

Simon

I always hear people talking about git issues.

raz

@Simon Git is the easiest source repo of all time.

deed02392

16:27

but if you haven't taken the time to read about it, you can easily mess things up quite badly

Simon

Then I guess I should just read all about it and then I'll be fine.

deed02392

i think source management is a generally difficult problem to solve though

Simon

True.

deed02392

yea i think so @Simon, a little doc reading goes a long way with Git

raz

Pretty much. It's about 10x better than SVN. And I generally like SVN.

Simon

16:27

Yeah, SVN is what I use.

raz

But git will change your life.

deed02392

yea it's far, far easier than SVN when you've got to grips with it imho

Simon

:o

raz

The best SVN client is Git.

You can actually trick SVN and use Git to manage SVN repos. It's fantastic.

deed02392

cheeky

Simon

16:28

Nice.

Ohnana

glorious

raz

And it takes up no space. You can do crazy branching, and merging is made so much easier because most of Git is just pointers to previous commits.

David Freitag

Unless there are merge conflicts which there always seems to be

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