The DMZ

AviD

00:14

@RoryAlsop no, it should be called community.se. or maybe communities.se.

FEichinger

@AviD God, let's not start that argument again ...

Stack Exchange

04:03

I don't understand the things you do, and you therefore may represent an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma.

Terry Chia

05:53

@RоryMcCune @AviD Idle curiosity, did the non-Pro Surface get refreshed alongside the SP3? I didn't hear anything about it.

Adnan

06:06

@TerryChia You need to ask @Marion

She's the person for that

Terry Chia

@Adnan I'm treating @RоryMcCune as a proxy.

Rоry McCune

06:19

@TerryChia @Adnan the font of wisdom on this (aka @MarionMcCune ) says that there has been no formal announcement of a surface 3 but the current rumour is that one will come along in October (There's also a rumour of a surface pro mini for that timeframe...)

@AviD ooh if the called it community.se the chat room could be called Greendale!

3

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Ah, interesting. Thanks.

Marion McCune

06:35

@TerryChia Smart watch as well so the story goes... Guess it will be a busy October if it is all true

Terry Chia

@MarionMcCune Sounds like @RоryMcCune's wallet will be looking empty in a couple of months. ;)

Marion McCune

@TerryChia lols - I have managed to (just) resist the pro 3 so far

Terry Chia

Oi @RоryMcCune, better start looking for a second job. ;)

Kisunminttu

06:51

Had to log in just to post this d3dsacqprgcsqh.cloudfront.net/photo/aMb2Z6V_700b_v2.jpg

Rоry McCune

@Kisunminttu I say dear Girl that may somewhat misrepresent the proclivities of the citizenry of our glorious british isles

Kisunminttu

@RоryMcCune "lol n00b faget!!1"

2

Terry Chia

@Kisunminttu You sound suspiciously like @Adnan.

Kisunminttu

I have to say that I don't remember ever n00btrolling anyone, in games or on message/image boards. I think I once cracked a yo momma so fat joke here, in the form of a picture, but that was jumping on the bandwagon.

@TerryChia I think he'd be the one using correct grammar and logical arguments...

Terry Chia

@Kisunminttu Won't that break the bandwagon? ;)

Kisunminttu

07:05

@TerryChia EYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Kisunminttu

07:19

How many of you remember the Windows labyrinth game screensaver? Did anyone else here switch the patterns to the psychedelic ones that were moving? Man, the headaches...

Adnan

What happened to the OWASP Moderated Newsfeed?

Not working for me anymore feeds.feedburner.com/OWASP

@TerryChia You're out!

Terry Chia

@Adnan :(

Rоry McCune

@Kisunminttu ho Doll, wrap that noise ya plank </glaswegian>

Arperum

07:46

@Kisunminttu How can anyway who saw that thing ever forget it. I could keep staring at that thing.

Kisunminttu

08:04

@RоryMcCune I bet @Adnan is going to use that at some point :D

@Arperum With the psychedelic patterns 'n' all?

Arperum

@Kisunminttu I remember activating these, looking at these for too long fucked with your head though.

Kisunminttu

@Arperum Yep. I remember when we got our first shared computer in our classroom in the 90's someone always trolled the teacher by setting it up like that. He was so pissed every time it happened.

Arperum

@Kisunminttu I can't remember any of my teachers in the 90's even having a pc available.

Kisunminttu

@Arperum lol newb

AviD

@RоryMcCune ha, this I like! @FEichinger, we will continue our just battle for pop culture relevance.

Kisunminttu

08:17

The earliest memory of using a computer at school was when we started learning English in 3rd grade. We had to pair up and figure out the correct answers to questions, grammar tasks etc

The only mistake I made was that I didn't know where ' was, so I used ` and the answer was "wrong" because of that.

Stupid computers.

Arperum

@Kisunminttu My earliest memory of a PC at school was around 13, when we had "programming" Most advanced stuff we did was write a loop or something equally stupid. And then learn to use word How to bold text?

Oh wait no, that was the year after, first year was some really terrible touch typing thing. Which resulted in me still being unable to properly touchtype at a reasoanable speed... (That might also had to do something with our class having a constant row with the PC teacher...)

AviD

@Kisunminttu yo momma so fat, when she jumped on the bandwagon, there was nothing left but toothpicks.

Kisunminttu

@Arperum Interesting, we didn't have anything like that... Was it optional or mandatory?

AviD

and, hi @Kisunminttu!

Kisunminttu

@AviD I burst out laughing :D Hello!

Arperum

08:23

@Kisunminttu mandatory. And horribly useless, even more so because after these two years we didn't do anything with it anymore... But hey, I've written some truly basdic code in turbopascal, so that's something I guess...

AviD

@Arperum I had to learn to touchtype on one of those old rotary typewriters.

my fingers got strong from that.

2

from the typewriters, of course. Pervert.

Kisunminttu

@Arperum I'm sort of jealous.

AviD

@Arperum wait, you wrote basic in pascal?

Arperum

@AviD We had one of these at home too! I remember the "j"-key being somewhat broken.

@AviD no, I meant, "basic" as in "simple", not the language.

Kisunminttu

The only programming classes I took were Java and C# in 10th and 11th grade. We had IT basics throughout grades 7-9, though

AviD

08:28

@Arperum you don't understand. When I took a touchtyping class, computers were not so common, and the "PC" didnt even exist.

@Arperum shame on you for your explicit ambiguity.

Terry Chia

@AviD waits for @RoryAlsop to chime in

@RoryAlsop probably practiced touch typing on stone tablets.

Kisunminttu

@AviD But you'd invented fire by that time, right?

Arperum

@TerryChia he probably learned touchtyping by smacking rocks on dinosaur heads.

AviD

@TerryChia you mean douche typing, right?

Terry Chia

@Kisunminttu That should be directed at @RoryAlsop, not @AviD.

AviD

08:30

@Kisunminttu no, that was @RoryAlsop.

Kisunminttu

@AviD used burn. It's not very effective...

FEichinger

@AviD I veto this idea. We're not calling the room "Greendale" just for a terrible joke on the site name.

AviD

@FEichinger sorry, you're wrong.

Terry Chia

@FEichinger Your mom's a terrible joke.

3

AviD

I already proposed it, and we voted on it.

@TerryChia niiice.

Rory Alsop

10:14

@TerryChia ...

@FEichinger The only Greendale I know is an album by Neil Young

AviD

@RoryAlsop you don't watch Community?

Rоry McCune

@AviD @RoryAlsop dude, you're missing out there! #SixSeasonsAndAMovie !

AviD

there was a movie?

its over, right?

that last season was new levels of suck.

Rоry McCune

@AviD not a movie yet.. It was cancelled but got saved after the 5th season, now it's being optioned by Yahoo Screen so there will definitely be a sixth season and potentially a movie

AviD

@RоryMcCune but but but

Rоry McCune

10:27

the hashtag is from the running 4th wall breaking gag about there being six seasons and a movie

AviD

ahhh right

probably the best part of the 5th season

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune What exactly is Yahoo Screen?

Rоry McCune

twitter.com/hashtag/sixseasonsandamovie

AviD

although the lava ground was a good episode.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia well exactly, no-one knew about it till the community deal so probably a smart one for them. It's essentially Yahoo's youtube clone...

AviD

10:29

@RоryMcCune dammit Yahoo, why won't you just die??!!?

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Ahh...

Rоry McCune

@AviD that was a good one.. kinda like the paintball episodes..

Terry Chia

@AviD Yahoo is like a cockroach at this point.

Goddamn annoying but impossible to kill.

AviD

yeah, exactly. and the zombie episodes. its a good pattern, hard for them to do wrong. I think it was the only decent episode this season.

Rory Alsop

@AviD haven't heard of it

never seen an advert for it

AviD

10:31

@TerryChia I'm starting to think that Marissa is a Google plant, she was embedded with the sole mission of slowly killing it off (well less slowly than it was anyway)

Rory Alsop

But I don't really do TV so unless it was on during a show I was watching, I wouldn't know

AviD

or maybe sell it off to Google

CEO Injection

Terry Chia

@AviD Yahoo is still rolling in cash so that's gonna take a while.

AviD

@RoryAlsop shame on you. go watch all FOUR seasons.

shame there were only FOUR.

@TerryChia I don't see how??

who would pay yahoo any money for anything??

Terry Chia

@AviD They sold off their stake in alibaba.

Which is a ebay clone in China.

Rоry McCune

10:32

@AviD but season 4 is generally disclaimed by the fans as it didn't have Dan Harmon!

AviD

@TerryChia ahh right, but not actual income.

Terry Chia

@AviD Yep. The billions they got in that deal will last them a while though.

AviD

@TerryChia right, and that's what Mrs. Marissa is there for.

@RоryMcCune season 4? I thought there were only 3?

Rоry McCune

@AviD 1-3 <- Dan Harmon in control, season 4 Dan harmon booted out, season 5 Dan Harmons return

AviD

@RоryMcCune looks like he was spiteful on the 5th. he only returned to kill it off.

like CEO Injection

Cross-Show Writer

Rоry McCune

10:36

@AviD well possibly but now it LIVES! will be interesting to see what they do when freed from the straight-jacket of US networks

AviD

I dunno man. The whole show is based on the concept of the high-end lawyer being forced to go back to (low-end) school. That lasted 4 years. That's it, its over. Always was.

thats the main reason 5th sucked so bad - there was no reason for it, it was completely non-sensical.

it's like if How I Met Your Mother would continue for another whole season after Ted married the mother.

or if Harry Potter had another book after he graduated.

Rоry McCune

@AviD not sure judging Community on making sense is a good idea... look at Chang, look at some of the weird episodes...

AviD

or if Twilight had even a single book.

Rоry McCune

@AviD you know that's happening right

AviD

@RоryMcCune thats the whole point!

Things should stay the same as they were. The way they always used to be!

Rоry McCune

10:39

@AviD </oldavid>

But you can't say that now you work for a young disruptive hip start-up

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune wut?

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop I'd heard chat of another potter book...

Rory Alsop

@AviD yes, before computers! but after big block Chevy engines

@RоryMcCune oh gawd no. Still - will be better than twilight

so, to add to my list: Community and HIMYM, yes?

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop HIMYM as long as you avoid the ending which apparently wasn't good (not a show I watch so I can't judge...)

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Yes.

@RоryMcCune Meh, the ending was good imo.

But it definitely wasn't what people expected so it took some flake.

Rory Alsop

10:43

@RоryMcCune I can easily avoid that. Have avoided it all except five minutes of the pilot so far

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia there ya go, I'd read criticism of it, but not seen it so you'll know better...

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia mmmm - smooth cadburys chocolate

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop you could have it on in the background whilst you're in superdrive with your latest cargo

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune lol

Rоry McCune

AviD

10:47

@RоryMcCune I would say even just the last half of the last episode.

Rоry McCune

good indication of relative platform security here... Finspy malware availability

iOS requires untethered Jailbreak, Windows phone not available.

Android... any version

AviD

@RoryAlsop I'd just picked up one of those kilo packages during my stopover in heathrow :-)

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Does that mean the iPhone must be jailbroken for the malware to work or does the malware have the ability to jailbreak the phone in the infection process?

Rory Alsop

@AviD nice

Terry Chia

FWIW, it won't be terribly expensive for a determined attacker to buy a privilege escalation and sandbox escape 0-day and package that with the malware I think.

@AviD Soon I'll be able to say to your kids "your daddy so fat he ate a whole kilo of chocolate by himself".

AviD

10:50

@TerryChia hey I was gonna share it!

but yeah, heh, I've done that.

Rory Alsop

Of course you eat the whole thing. Is far too easy

AviD

once I got on the plane with 8 of those mothers.

yes, 8 kilo of chocolate still weighs 8 kilo.

Terry Chia

@AviD And left the plane with none?

AviD

@TerryChia heh. Thats besides what I bought for the flight.

but you can't open the big ones when you fly economy. no room.

Terry Chia

@AviD Buy 2 seats.

AviD

10:52

heh. "One for me, and one for my chocolate!"

2

Terry Chia

@AviD Still cheaper than flying first class.

AviD

yes, but in first class they give you all the chocolate you want.

and a cute stewardess to feed it to you.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia I think it'd be the former. the standard untethered jailbreaks that are available wouldn't from what I've seen be suitable for use in a malware attack...

Rory Alsop

11:27

Ahh - I like this. If enough answers get flagged as spam the question is automagicaly protected by Community:

6

Q: Surfing anynomously

For work I often go to China, and there I met some dissidents I would like to help. I need to upload some videos to an ftp server in Europe. I will connect through a public hotspot without authentication. The problem is that I'm afraid that they might trace me back through the OS (Ubuntu) or c...

anonymity

Rоry McCune

11:38

troopers.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/… <-- interesting preso on IPv6 Adoption and likely issues

Gilles

@RoryAlsop I think the criterion is deleted answers that would have been blocked by protection, not spam specifically, and not just flags but only actual deletions

Nick

@RоryMcCune .pdf... NOPE

Rоry McCune

@Nick rly you don't open PDFs? must limit the stuff you read a bit.

Nick

@RоryMcCune if I do its on a different PC or VM

unless I know the person that made it

Rory Alsop

12:07

@Gilles ahh - thanks

Nicolas Lykke Iversen

May I ask what pentesters use Virtual Machines for in practice ?

ManishEarth

@NicolasLykkeIversen pentesting?

Rоry McCune

@NicolasLykkeIversen Well I can't speak for pentesters in general, but in my case I use them for a number of purposes e.g. running alternate OSs with testing tools installed to isolate them from my main build, evaluating software products, running pre-build environments with known vulnerabilities for practicing techniques....

ManishEarth

These things can be cloned and restored and what not. Go crazy with them, if you break something that's not an issue

Also, your own computer probably is a special snowflake and you (a) don't want to mess with it too much and (b) it's probably not the best model system for testing attacks on

AviD

@NicolasLykkeIversen I'm not a pentester, but I have a VDI set up, so I have a dozen different machines all in parallel, on the same hardware.

Rory Alsop

12:19

@NicolasLykkeIversen My team at $largepentestingconsultancy used to carry out ALL pen testing from a VM, so it could be torn down subsequent to the test and recreated from image every time

For clients this meant they knew data could be wiped after the test

Nicolas Lykke Iversen

@RoryMcCune Ahh thanks. So is it possible to use one VM to "attack" another VM ?

Terry Chia

@Nick That's way too paranoid. I only do that for files I have reason to distrust.

Rory Alsop

for us it meant we had a consistent toolset every time

@NicolasLykkeIversen of course

Rоry McCune

@NicolasLykkeIversen sure

Rory Alsop

a VM looks like a computer

We even used to run entirely virtualised Honeynets

AviD

12:20

feels like a computer

smells like a computer

Rory Alsop

@AviD smells like a computer

dammit @AviD

AviD

:-)

Rоry McCune

@NicolasLykkeIversen essentially in practice there's no difference between physical and virtual machines (unless you're attacking hardware specific issues like BIOS or drivers...)

AviD

or some network stacks.

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune I'm still having trouble with USB wireless cards at times. :(

Rоry McCune

12:21

@TerryChia ahh, yeah I've not done too much with USB pass-through on wireless though hoping to if I do more wireless work.... any particular cards that do/don't work?

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune I don't think it's the cards actually, it seems like VirtualBox is a bit iffy on that.

I'm using the typical Alfa atheros card.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia ahh I generally use VMWare workstation, from what I've seen on general USB stuff it seems ok (definitely fine with things like Android phones...)

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Yeah, I really need to buy a license soon.

VirtualBox has this nice habit of crashing my Windows VM when I disconnect my iPhone.

Nicolas Lykke Iversen

Guess I should never had invested in a 1000$ PC with VT-X support disabled (and no option to enable in BIOS) then ... Thanks @RoryAlsop and @RoryMcCune for your guidance. You say you used to carry out ALL pen testing, this doesn't apply anymore ?

Terry Chia

@NicolasLykkeIversen @RoryAlsop has joined the dark side and is a HR manager now.

(kidding!)

Rоry McCune

12:27

@TerryChia VMWare workstation is generally really good. Got some problems with win 8.1 host and HiDPI displays at the moment but I wouldn't be without it...

@NicolasLykkeIversen well I'm a full-time tester if that's important :)

Rory Alsop

@NicolasLykkeIversen I moved roles. Now I no longer get to do pen testing, and I'm not responsible (directly) for any of the testers here either :-(

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Nah, you hire them. That's just as important. ;)

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia nope - I don't even get to hire testers

even for the new headcount I have for H2 2014, none are pen testers

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop That was a HR manager joke. :P

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia I know

:-P

my solution to HR manager jokes is to pretend they aren't jokes

Nicolas Lykke Iversen

12:34

Another question: Is pentesting ever done using .NET on Windows ? I mean, like writing a program in C# etc.

ManishEarth

Hey, @TerryChia, there?

Terry Chia

@ManishEarth Hmm?

ManishEarth

A friend of mine is interesting in doing something ITSec or crypto related, got anything for him to get started with?

pyca/cryptography?

Something where he can do stuff and learn simultaneously

Terry Chia

@ManishEarth Writing code? Sure, we could always do with more help.

ManishEarth

He's also enthusiastic for the Rust crypto lib, and if you're ever starting on that I'd love to be part of it too :)

Any other ideas?

Terry Chia

12:36

@ManishEarth Heh. I got sidetracked on that. :P

ManishEarth

Do you have an IRC or something, a place for newbies to bug you?

@TerryChia I would start on my own but I don't know what we need in the lib, and I'm not great at crypto anyway :p

@TerryChia I'm also now a committer on Servo! Come join us!

:D

Terry Chia

@ManishEarth The IRC channel is #cryptography-dev. We don't really have anything that specifically for newbies though since the project is kinda small.

ManishEarth

hm

Terry Chia

I really got started by implementing an algorithm or two. It's a dive right in kinda thing.

@ManishEarth Oooh nice. When I said I got sidetracked I actually meant "sidetracked with picking up Rust" :P

ManishEarth

@TerryChia haha

I didn't spend much time learning rust tbh

AviD

12:40

@NicolasLykkeIversen as much as pentesting ever includes writing programs. Which is to say, not too often.

ManishEarth

picked it up...sorta :p

Terry Chia

@ManishEarth Yeah, but you have a thing that you need to do in it.

I don't have that right now so I keep getting distracted. :P

AviD

sometimes there is some custom scripting involved, but bona fide programs are rarely a part of pentesting.

ManishEarth

@TerryChia this was before I applied :)

Rory Alsop

@AviD with the exceptions of those orgs that create and sell pen testing tools :-)

AviD

12:46

@RoryAlsop yeah, well, duh - but that's not pentesting, thats product development. Just happens to have some minimal relevance to pentesting.

Rory Alsop

@AviD hence my smiley

AviD

many developers I've met that work on these products actually barely have a clue about security at all, let alone pentesting.

Nicolas Lykke Iversen

Should a pentester have good math skills when it comes to cryptography ?

@Avid

Rory Alsop

@NicolasLykkeIversen It can help

Nicolas Lykke Iversen

@AviD - I guess you write some scripts and small programs which could be done from .NET ?

AviD

12:49

I.. umm... there are 3 things there that dont often or necessarily go together.

Rory Alsop

@NicolasLykkeIversen Problem solving skills, and familiarity with your tools, environment, scripting language etc are very useful

Nicolas Lykke Iversen

@RoryAlsop but you never do number theory in hand or something similar ?

AviD

I think you need to go back and define some of those concepts. like, what are you including when you say "pentesting". Talk to @RоryMcCune, he'll give you an earful.

even for developers, I would say if you need math skills (beyond basics) for using crypto, you're doing it wrong.

Rory Alsop

@NicolasLykkeIversen it's not really going to give you anything that will aid a pen test

Rоry McCune

@NicolasLykkeIversen so yeah pen. testing can and does mean different things to different people. Could a pen tester find use for number theory on a test.... sure it's possible. Do I think it's likely... no, do I think that most pen. testers know about that stuff..... no

Terry Chia

12:54

@RоryMcCune Yeah totally... some pen testers just want to work in a Pilot factory...

Rory Alsop

@NicolasLykkeIversen - this may help:

18

A: What is the difference between a penetration test and a vulnerability assessment?

I'm sure I posted an answer to this previously, but my google-fu must be weak this morning. From my blog post on Penetration Taxonomy, we have a list of testing types that is gaining acceptance. Also, working with the Penetration Testing Execution Standard we hope to further develop this. This li...

Nicolas Lykke Iversen

Thank you I will look into it.

Nick

@TerryChia I don't trust anything until its proven trustowrthy

Terry Chia

@Nick Look at it this way. I waste way less time by rebuilding my system in the unlikely event that I get infected than opening a VM for every damn file I get off the Internet.

Nick

@TerryChia I have a terminal/computer in my back wall controls/runs VMs to screens across my entire house, spinning one up is a 10 second deal :)

Terry Chia

13:08

@Nick Yeah. And then there's actually transferring the file to the VM. Which involves clicking things or typing things. Why bother when rebuilding my system takes 20 minutes?

Nick

@TerryChia rebuilding my system doesnt take long... redownloading all the updates which right now are at about 500MB combined takes long

Terry Chia

@Nick That 20 minutes does include updates.

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia VM's are the way forwards

Nick

@TerryChia I get a 300KB/s download max here

@TerryChia also home pastebin server :)

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop No arguments there for most things.

Rory Alsop

13:11

Also good for building a machine for your parents - support callsmove from a 4 hour discussion by phone trying to guide them in reinstalling etc., and are now a 4 second push from my end and done

Terry Chia

I'm just saying spinning up a VM to open every single file you get off the Internet is too much of a hassle.

Not really worth the effort when rebuilding a compromised system is fast and easy.

Nick

@TerryChia there are about 10 VMs running to different terminals in my entire house, one in every room there are a ton already running so im not opening one every time

Terry Chia

@Nick If you are using existing VMs you are doing stuff on to open the files you are not really opening the files in a contained environment are you...?

Nick

@TerryChia all controled from a central computer meaning I can easily SSH in and make a file with links

@TerryChia The VMs are all deleted and recycled every night while im sleeping :)

So even if something does get through it gets deleted every night

Terry Chia

@Nick I'm sure you have your reasons but that's an insanely complex setup for a home environment...

Rory Alsop

13:14

@Nick I like this concept! I obviously haven't taken things far enough. Obviously losing my geekery

Terry Chia

If you have the existing infrastructure for this, sure go ahead.

Nick

@RoryAlsop hehehe the real geekery is having a huge server controling all these VMs :p

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop You need a mainframe in your basement. That's more your generation. ;)

Nick

@TerryChia one of thesse from the 60s :p

Journeyman Geek

eheh

@Nick: eh, if you're nuts enough, I've heard of configs using 16 core xeons, and multiple video cards using VT-D to host 8 systems with proper video cards.

I'm kinda tempted to try it out on my gaming rig, using the onboard intel card for the hypevisor and one video card on a guest

Terry Chia

13:23

@JourneymanGeek Isn't the 16 core Xeon the E7?

That's crazy expensive.

Journeyman Geek

@TerryChia: yeah. hence heard of

Terry Chia

The CPU alone probably costs more than my entire system.

Journeyman Geek

puget systems basically tried two configs - AMD cards with ESXi, and Nvidia cards with KVM

I have a mere core i7 ;p

Nick

@JourneymanGeek I have about 4 systems hooked up directly to a GPU-screen the rest are raspberryPis running a remote desktop software because its too far to run a cable

Terry Chia

Heck, the E7 is more powerful than what most companies need.

Journeyman Geek

13:25

@Nick: I have an array of obsolete laptops, one slightly newer laptop (an x220) and a Ivy Bridge core i7 desktop

@TerryChia: I did say crazy, right?

but in theory the same setup might work for a lesser system

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek Yep. :P

Add 8 Titans in the mix might as well.

Journeyman Geek

lemme pull that up

Terry Chia

And if you are using a E7 you probably want a few hundred gigs of ECC RAM.

Nick

I've been server shopping some used servers off ebay

Xander

@RoryAlsop I think it's @tylerl who's punted on family-tech-support duties, and when non-technical relatives want help he just sends them a ChromeBook. I have to say I like that approach.

Nick

13:27

Enough to run some VMs

Journeyman Geek

I misremembered

pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/…

Nick

@Xander or a mac these work too

Terry Chia

@Nick Eh, Macs aren't entirely maintenance free...

They require about the same amount of work as your average Windows setup.

Journeyman Geek

@Xander: eh, I've been running the family business for the last 8 years, techwise

Xander

@Nick Ha, yeah, no. If you think a Mac works, you're not appropriately familiar with the term "non-technical." :-)

Journeyman Geek

13:28

(though, dad retired, and I wish his laptop would die. Its on XP)

Nick

@Xander macs are the computers that are advertised as "They just work" arent they? At least that how my fried tried to get me to buy one

Ended up buying an OP desktop to run linux

Journeyman Geek

only 12 cores and 4 GPUs

Xander

@Nick Yes. The key fact to remember is that advertisers are liars.

Journeyman Geek

@Nick: nice thing with DIY desktops is they keep running

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia I don't have one any more

I did see a cheap AS/400 I nearly bought

Terry Chia

13:29

@RoryAlsop Get one for Christmas this year. :)

Journeyman Geek

Something breaks and you just pull parts from your junkpile (you do have one right?) until you can run down to the store to get one

Nick

@JourneymanGeek yup its also fun assembling a computer

Journeyman Geek

@RoryAlsop: o_o

@Nick: eh, I build one every 7 years or so

I saved up for over a year for my current rig ;p

Rory Alsop

@JourneymanGeek I used to set up systems with 1024 cores, or even more... wish I could have one of them

Nick

@JourneymanGeek ofcourse I do.. it was components from the 90s in there.. including one of these "ball like" macs, but thats more of a meuseum piece cant use MAC hardware :p

Journeyman Geek

13:30

lol

I do have an SGI octane

been meaning to see if it still works... for the past 6 years

Rory Alsop

@JourneymanGeek you'd have liked my almost working Beowulf comrising a fleet of Compaq Contura laptops

@JourneymanGeek it will. Mine does :-) Even my Personal Irises worked until I finally gave up on them

Nick

I want a third screen for my current rig but I'm out of space.. and GPU only has DVI ports left both HDMI are being used

^ sorry for that remove misclick xD

Journeyman Geek

@RoryAlsop: oh, its not that bad, its an R60 and R61

Rory Alsop

(they took up too much space, and weren't as comfy to sit on as a chair)

Terry Chia

@Nick Get a monitor arm?

Journeyman Geek

13:32

@RoryAlsop: the octane monitor exploded

I have the cable for using a regular monitor on it, but I haven't gotten around to seeing if it works on a wide screen

Rory Alsop

@JourneymanGeek cool. If you were here, I'd sell you a perfectly working 24" sgi monitor (proper Sony Trinitron) for £50

oop - meeting. Back soon

Journeyman Geek

@RoryAlsop: alas, shipping would kill me ;p

(of course, my SGI was british, and came in when I moved back)

Nick

@TerryChia picture of my desk I took a bit back:

Xander

@RoryAlsop You can use it to heat the house!

Nick

Journeyman Geek

13:34

you need a bigger desk

Nick

@JourneymanGeek yup

Terry Chia

^

You need better speakers. :P

Journeyman Geek

I currently have a laptop, a 20" screen, and my desktop (its a cosair600T on it)

lol

Nick

@TerryChia yes I do xD

Journeyman Geek

@TerryChia: my current speakers are probably 15-20 years old

I'm planning on upgrading them soon

Terry Chia

13:35

@JourneymanGeek Doesn't say much about speakers. Good ones last ages and still sound damn good.

Journeyman Geek

I don't use them much though, my headphones are kickass.

@TerryChia: oh, they're cheapies. But built like brick shithouses.

Terry Chia

I'm using a set of Audioengine A2s for speakers and a reshelled Westone 4 for when I'm out of the house.

My damn audio gear costs more than my computer.

Nick

I like how noone commented on the tiny switch :p

Terry Chia

@Nick It's tiny. Not worth talking about.

^ TWSS

Journeyman Geek

planning on getting a set of Maudio AV40 for home. My proper headphones are a pair of FA003, I use a Maudio fast track as an external soundcard, and a SMSL SapII as a head amp

(the amp's cheap, chinese and... oddly good. When I get a job, I'll likely get a ODAC with some extra options though)

Nick

13:38

@TerryChia if these used servers I ordered turn out good, ill get a rack and a rack mounted switch, and then ill have a proper homelab

Journeyman Geek

@Nick: I am told ikea makes decent, cheap racks ;p

Nick

@JourneymanGeek hehehehe

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek A good rack isn't that expensive.

Compared to the servers you will be putting in them.

Journeyman Geek

@TerryChia: its a bit of a joke

and probably true

but at the moment, alas, I can only dream ;p

Terry Chia

A 46U rack is about $1.2k I think?

Nick

13:40

@TerryChia too much

Terry Chia

And that's an insane size for a home.

AviD

everyone is skipping the "rack" jokes? Hmm, maturity, this is unexpected.

4

Nick

yea I dont think ill ever have 42 servers or even 21 2U servers

AviD

oh this is cute - the "send mail" icon on #ShinyMac is a paper airplane. Adorable.

Nick

@AviD weird indeed, this is the DMZ peoples

Terry Chia

13:41

@Nick You can get big 4U NAS units.

Those uses 3.5" drives.

AviD

@TerryChia hehehe, COME ON! I'm trying not to make childish jokes here!

Journeyman Geek

I can probably scrounge up a rack cheap locally

Terry Chia

@AviD I'm feeding you the material. Go wild.

Journeyman Geek

(there's places around here that do 'recycling')

Terry Chia

The problem with a rack at home isn't the price. It's the damn noise.

AviD

13:42

@TerryChia dammit man!

Journeyman Geek

@TerryChia: more like WAF/PAF ;p

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