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07:38
@iszi a little less than 2%. the point is when you're building a computer that's about a foot across and does interesting things at least once per nanosecond, 3*10^8 ms^-1 is not a useful figure.
07:53
@Iszi - have you taken it up? It's great fun. Got my two eldest kids very interested
I thought quantum wasn't constrained by the speed of light. Are you talking about output collection?
Actually I'm quite sure of it. The famous 'spooky action at a distance' of entangled quantum pairs violated Einsteins model.
08:09
I guess no thing kills conversation faster than quantum mechanics, unless you're at a party of quantum physicists.
2
Now that I think about it, how can I know whether a party of quantum physicists is or isn't happening.
08:46
@thisjosh the interaction may happen instantaneously, but you can't get information out of it faster than c.
Oh and BTW it was my breakfast that killed the conversation ;)
09:00
Finally getting back to answering questions on sec.se :)
@thisjosh It is and it isn't - until you check:-)
Or do they get to check for you - as long as they don't tell you faster than you could see for yourself
Morning @RoryAlsop
morning @GrahamLee
you keeping well?
aye, not bad. A couple of positive interviews yesterday
Speaking of which, is this your first week at PwC?
Best ofluck. All good so far here - still finding my way round internal processes, titles, departments, tools etc., but already out at clients doing what I do best - talking over coffee:-)
09:12
haha
I hope it suits you well
cheers
09:58
Well, that took bloody ages (as it usually does)
breakfast?
:-)
No, the answer.
was just joking
going to drop this as offtopic i think
0
Q: How much percentage of Mac spoofing can a network tolerate?

bizso09There is a network of n nodes. There are m clients online at any given moment. That means the network can tolerate about n-m number of spoofed clients that all use MAC addresses that are offline at the moment. m/n is the online ratio of the network. Is this reasoning correct?

Yeah, it makes no sense at all.
I would migrate to SF if I thought it was a question.
is it maths, is it SF - dunnon - offtopic for here and I don't think it is good enough to migrate so I'll kill it now
10:14
Heh, the postman just turned up with a really soggy scrap of paper: "if you can get your signature on there you're a genius"
so I signed it :P
Mensa candidate
@Graham - good answer btw. Does a good job of setting out specifics, which the previous q's hadn't so much
you came late to the party though - so you're a few votes behind. (ping a link onto twitter - that'll sort you in no time:-)
Hmm, the twitterer thingy doesn't automatically add #stacksecurity. Do you think that's worth a bug report or not?
I'll write one anyway
yes - I tend to always add hashtags manually so hadn't really thought about it, but I think that would help
10:32
Made it so™
11:11
right, the main site knows that I exist now :)
@GrahamLee is that your first time?
in the main site:-)
oi :P
I may not have as much rep as you, but you're only taking it out on me because Thomas is making you feel inferior :P
4
hahahahaha
the value tables that @Scott linked to made me feel much more inferior. Especially the one that rated rep gained per 100 chars typed. tl;dr - I have a high rep because I type a lot and some of what I type has some value:-)
11:24
:D
I think I came out as one of the most efficient users of the site
Still don't have any gold badges though
This site is actually pretty good in that most folks don't really care about rep - have you seen some of the rants over on SO when someone is downvoted or a question is deleted etc?
It's crazy over there
@RoryAlsop I aim to pleasure!
@ScottPack heh
afternoon/morning
@RoryAlsop Which is weird, considering how seemingly trivial it is to get rep on SO.
Morning gents
looks like @Iszi only needs 1 more upvote to get "vote to close"
11:29
@RoryAlsop yeah, it's like slashdot modding
so we should all down vote him/her/it?
awwwww
that's harsh
:-)
Congrats, @Iszi!
@GrahamLee Nah, that's mean. Remember when some asshole did that to @Rory when he was fluttering back and forth at 10k?
Hmm, 3001.... that means for one karma I can....
11:31
yay - congrats @Iszi
@JeffFerland LOL
@ScottPack hmmmmmm....
and congrats too @Ninefingers - "vote to close" is yours
@JeffFerland I actually went and checked to see if you had:-)
Before too long you guys might be able to stop processing to many flags
@RoryAlsop I subscribe to the universal law of humanity: don't be a douche. :)
4
works for me:-)
@JeffFerland When I was younger, I boiled down the entirety of the Christian New Testament to that one statement.
I have found it to be a great dipstick by which to measure how introspective one is with their religion :)
@ScottPack 5 users between 5k and 10k at the moment, and another 10 between 3k and 5k. 6 more between 2k and 3k and 13 between 1k and 2k. The community power is growing
11:37
I know I know, I need to start answering questions again! Jeez.
@ScottPack Yup. And broadly speaking, the Qur'an is the same.
no matter what fundamentalists on either side would like to tell you
@RoryAlsop While I can't say that I've read it, I am not surprised that's the case.
I see them as written by people trying to get along in that era, so there was a fair bit of historical violence in the early sections of the bible, but by and large the idea of being generally nice, and un-douche-y is supported.
I just read it to be able to annoy my friends
-2
A: Do atheists have a better knowledge of religion than believers?

DVKThe answer is right in the table, as well as actual questions. "Knowledge of religion" is a meaningless term - what the questions in aggregate measure is knowledge of details of all the religions put together. At least 10 questions in the table are about details of assorted non-christian religi...

11:40
"Thou Shalt Always Kill" -- quite entertaining
Since becoming an adult pretty much all of my friends are either agnostic/atheist, or are just willing to let anyone have their own beliefs.
Bit of a different atmosphere from my childhood in the Bible Belt :)
Where I grew up, there was some religion, but generally in a small island community and came first
:-)
That sounds pretty nice.
I made the mistake of listening to a radio 4 phone-in the other day.
My community had the unfortunate notion that whenever you met somebody there were two questions one asked: 1) Who is your family?, 2) Where do you go to church?
Not necessarily in that order.
11:43
Apparently the London riots were caused by the declining spirituality of the population.
Or, according to the other caller, the lack of conscription.
@ScottPack wow. TV and film does always portray USA as very very christian, but I tend to take most TV with a pinch of salt
@GrahamLee not just lazy sods with no sense of discipline thinking they'd get away with it in all the chaos then?
apparently not
I'm in two minds about conscription. On the one hand it could instil some discipline. On the other hand - weapons training...
@GrahamLee I judged some high school debaters last week, and one described the London riots as an artifact of discrepancy between social clases.
BTW @RoryAlsop I'm planning to reject the edit that's on the queue - it doesn't add anything that answers the question
11:45
@JeffFerland WTF?
@RoryAlsop They're still the biggest majority, but I've seen polls list agnostic/atheist as high as 25%
@GrahamLee cool.
@JeffFerland are they particularly Marxist children?
@JeffFerland It appeared to be a classless riot, with folks from all social strata getting involved
@RoryAlsop shrug I'm not certain if he was mis-informed or mis-represented because he was a new debater.
He was corrected.
11:47
@RoryAlsop It also depends on which area of the country you're in. The further north and east you go (i.e. New England) the less religious, and the further south you go the more religious.
There also seem to be a large number of folks angry at the police, despite the fact that when the police weigh in too heavily they get shouted at, and that most of the backup police had no riot training at all so were stood there without tactics and generally pretty scared
@ScottPack so that term 'bible belt' does still hold pretty true?
@RoryAlsop ... and we're back to the discussion about people without tactics from yesterday
@RoryAlsop Too slow Scott. Yes, it holds true.
I'm from New England. I get culture shock when I travel to some regions around the country.
I don't think we have anything like the regional divide in that way in the UK (with the possible exception of the Outer Hebrides - which are extremely religious) - there are areas in each city which are predominantly Muslim, Sikh, Hindu etc., but not exclusively, and there aren't areas more agnostic than others - it's all just mixed up together
That's true, you can see where the mosques and churches are, but it doesn't make the areas Islamic or Christian in my experience
12:05
some stats on the blog - starting to get some more visits from outside. Total page visits: 381 from sec.SE, 364 from SEI excluding sec.SE, 37 from outside SEI
Some way to go yet though:-)
nice
@JeffFerland And by "too slow" you mean "getting a toddler ready for school and driving to work" :)
12:31
that old excuse:-)
Did I say - my youngest had her first day at school yesterday. Very exciting. That's them in Primary 1, 5 and 7. The only year they'll all be in the same school, as Hamish moves to secondary schoold next year
@RoryAlsop Yay!
One step closer to kicking them all to the curb! :)
12:54
Oooo I can close things!
@RoryAlsop Are the 37 possibly including bookmarkers or manual URL entries?
@ScottPack I still maintain the Christian beliefs I was raised with, but I understand the "willing to let anyone have their own beliefs" bit. I think there's a tendency toward apathy in the more recent generations as they grow older.
@RoryAlsop Congrats - huh? I miss something?
Oh, yay! 3k!
Thanks, guys!
13:10
@Iszi In my mind it's less about apathy, and more about respect.
@ScottPack I think you're giving too much credit to younger generations, in regards to respect.
@Iszi Fair enough. I'll rephrase. I think that it should be more about respect, and less about apathy. Though with younger generations both root causes may result in the same action.
@ScottPack Yeah, I'll agree with that.
@JeffFerland Urgh... 240p. Yuck.
13:56
@Iszi Minimalist visuals anyway.
14:40
@Iszi they included facebook, google, various blog platforms etc
@Ninefingers yay:-)
Oy!
Ey Up @Mvy
Hi @Mvy
What's up ?
I've been feeding our new FL&U today :P
hmmm - nope, couldn't figure that TLA out...
I give up
14:51
@Rory S'good, now just 7000 more reputation points until I get to do anything more interesting... is the blog post for QoTW #6 fine btw? I see it's scheduled, so I assume so!
@Rory French Language & Usage
we're in private beta :P
or "beta" as it used to be called
@GrahamLee whatever
:P
we used to call "public beta" "release"
@Ninefingers 7000 - that'll take no time:-) QotW #6 looks grand, yes - so it's all scheduled in and good to go
14:53
Already Mortarboard :P
@Mvy Congratulations on your motorboating!
:P
Oh, you said 'mortarboard'. Hey! Congrats on that too!
What? Who's been waterboarding?
XD
15:09
@GrahamLee Wakeboarding, waterboarding... I got them confused. You want me to let you up now, don't you?
mbffmmbmblle
Anybody feel like looking at a 12 page slide series I put together for presenting to the IT consulting group on Monday? Or does that feel a bit like torture?
@GrahamLee Speak up, I can't understand you when you mumble.
@JeffFerland I said "glugluglugluglug"
@GrahamLee OK, more water^Wpowerpoint slides for you then
 
1 hour later…
16:33
@JeffFerland 12 slides... that sounds too concise and informative for a presentation!
16:47
@Ninefingers I have certain strong beliefs about powerpoints that include minimalist amount of crap. Also, slides are bullet-point ideas to be talked about. If the presenter is reading the slides, they should just save the time and email the text.
Unfortunately some people don't share your view... to the point I'm wondering if some of the presentations I've sat through would be considered a cruel and unusual punishment...
"Uh.... if done incorrectly a stored procedure is no more secure then a web server side SQL query and if you can't secure you SQL queries on the web server, what makes you think they can do it properly with a stored procedure?" sigh
I'll read it if you've got a link if you still want someone to read it
Hmm, have to find a place to upload it.
Or email is fine; there's two in my profile, either or gets to me; I thought with a link others might be able to read it though.
16:59
You could always try freeftpdropoxes.ru
That looks good to me
I especially like this: "The weak spot is typically not the underlying system, but the actual application design"
I'd upvote it, but LibreOffice doesn't give me that option.
@Ninefingers If I were presenting to a more technical conference, I would totally put a security.se vote image in there.
I like the pitch that it's all fundamentally about business too.
 
2 hours later…
19:07
Hello
Is there a diamond-powered participant here ?
@ThomasPornin I guess asking means that means I'm not one of them, but what does that mean?
Someone with a diamond by their name is a moderator for one SE site.
E.g. @Rory or @AviD for security.SE
@ThomasPornin Gotcha. Diamond icon / mod.
their name appears in blue in the chatroom
I wanted to have an evaluation of how much work being a mod involves.
20:00
A mod on any site, apparently, has mod powers on every chat room on chat, though.
Ooh, that's good.
By the way, why does your name appears in italics ?
20:42
I'm the room owner for this room
Well, that, and I'm awesome.
2
 
1 hour later…
21:53
2
A: Why do people think that this is bad way to hash passwords?

Jeff FerlandRainbow tables function because multiple systems use the similar schemes for handling data. While it is well-regarded that adding a salt should be a universal feature of password hashing, adding a number of rounds also assists in defeating rainbow tables. To wit: a rainbow table for any subset of...

Looks like D.W. and I are hashing it out. Pun not intended.
 
1 hour later…
22:59
@D.W. You should carry on this discussion with me in here
Does that notify him? Hmm....
Looks like the Bitcoin StackExchange proposal will get into beta soon - 93% complete now.
@JeffFerland Only people that have been in chat recently can be notified that way. Though mods can use @@D.W. or something like that I think
@JeffFerland I'm having a very hard time figuring out what you're saying in that answer. But D.W. is right that your first line is wrong: "Rainbow tables function because multiple systems use the similar schemes for handling data." Only one system needs to use the scheme, so long as you're interested in several hashes on that sytem.

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