The DMZ

David Freitag

18:00

@AJHenderson Or perhaps that's just what they want you to think.

Thomas Pornin

@TerryChia That's the behaviour on FreeBSD, and yes, it is the right one.

Simon

@ThomasPornin I didn't get it which offends me because I definitely am a top SE user.

I mean, I had to work really hard to get this 1.5k rep.

Thomas Pornin

@Simon But you don't exist.

Simon

@ThomasPornin It's true, I have no way to prove my existence.

Thomas Pornin

What I mean is that for that student to send you an email, she must first find your email address. She apparently does it manually, by looking up people in Google or something like that.

Looking up "Simon" points to a game from 30 years ago, not to an email address.

Simon

18:06

Makes sense.

David Freitag

I suppose she could be guessing. Unless your email is a PBKDF2 hash of "Thomas.Pornin"

Simon

It's probably salted though, no?

David Freitag

Was that really a question?

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag if they have a bot that can find and use my relatively custom contact page, I'm impressed

Simon

Well then, how on earth would the person be able to compare those hashes?

David Freitag

18:08

@AJHenderson No, what I mean is they personally take the time to go through the hassle of contacting you through your contact page only to deliver some random nastiness to you.

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag ah yeah, well, I'm still being paranoid

I replied to their e-mail asking for a credential from the school to verify

David Freitag

@AJHenderson I don't blame you.

AJ Henderson

it has apparently been received by a decent number of high rep users though

and it does appear legit so far

it was even sent fairly late at night their time, which fits for a college kid

David Freitag

Damn, I really hate tech resellers.

And I hate that Altium only uses third party sales people.

Simon

My poor dad.

David Freitag

18:14

My poor empty stomach

AJ Henderson

@ton.yeung I'm really hoping that has a different meaning of DP than I first thought

oh, display port

gotcha

FEichinger

...

David Freitag

@ton.yeung Yep. Three laptops with display port, all worked just fine

FEichinger

Do you have any idea how utterly disturbing it is to switch back to this tab and only read these two lines:

1 min ago, by David Freitag

My poor empty stomach

47 secs ago, by AJ Henderson

@ton.yeung I'm really hoping that has a different meaning of DP than I first thought

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA?

David Freitag

@ton.yeung I think it depends on the laptop. But I never tried.

Thomas Pornin

18:16

@ton.yeung My Mac at home has displayport, it works fine, though I use it only with a DisplayPort-to-VGA converter.

AJ Henderson

@ton.yeung probably better that way

David Freitag

@FEichinger I can't remember what DP can stand for right now. All of my focus is being stolen by my empty stomach.

Simon

@DavidFreitag Death Penalty.

AJ Henderson

since that comment really goes right up to the line, but I honesty wasn't sure what you meant until you said displayport

Simon

Guild Wars reference #1

David Freitag

18:17

@Simon Oh really? I was thinking it was something sexual. How boring.

Simon

@DavidFreitag It might be but I have no idea what it is neither.

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag you would be correct, simon would be wrong

and loses any hope of being lord of the asses

Simon

AJ might be into some weird stuff.

FEichinger

@AJHenderson Oh that ... that was ... ugh.

Simon

HAHAHA

I FIGURED IT OUT

First word, deep.

AJ Henderson

18:18

@Simon no, still wrong

David Freitag

@Simon Pff, google found it out.

Simon

Deep Papas!

I honestly have no idea.

David Freitag

Is the second word Piercing?

First word rhymes with stick?

Simon

Is that it?

AJ Henderson

@ThomasPornin my monitor thankfully has displayport, I love it

@DavidFreitag no, still worse, it was really toeing the line. I only commented because it was literally the first thing that came to mind for the initials DP

Simon

18:21

wat

Thomas Pornin

@ton.yeung The upward-compatible "Thunderbolt" (same physical port as DisplayPort) has enough bandwidth to drive two huge Apple displays.

David Freitag

@AJHenderson Ah well. I want to know, but I don't want @AviD to get all "blah blah I have kids 'n stuff" on us.

Thomas Pornin

But I am not sure about DisplayPort (the old one)

Simon

@AJHenderson Is the first word double?

AJ Henderson

@Simon we have a winner

David Freitag

18:24

@ton.yeung What laptop are you looking to buy?

Simon

Yay

David Freitag

@AJHenderson Pfft. That just seemed too easy.

Simon

That's nasty as hell.

David Freitag

@ton.yeung So you want a laptop with two external monitors?

FEichinger

@AJHenderson I am not sure what should disturb me more now ... That even @Simon genuinely didn't seem to know, or that the whole room took so long.

David Freitag

18:24

@ton.yeung Horrible idea.

You can get an MSI/Gigabyte with better specs for $500-700 cheaper

AJ Henderson

@ThomasPornin you should actually be able to run 3 displays off display port I believe

Simon

@FEichinger Duuuuude, that's not a concept that I ever think of/see/hear of.

AJ Henderson

as long as the graphics card is capable of triple head

(which in context is a poor choice of words, even if accurate technical terminology)

FEichinger

Why did I know this but @Simon didn't? ... When did I become the crazy pervert here?

Simon

That's what happens when you hang out with @AviD too much.

Thomas Pornin

18:27

@AJHenderson Apple promises 3 "4K" displays, with the Mac Pro. But I think they promised only 2 displays with some previous Thunderbolt-able Mac.

David Freitag

@ton.yeung If you consider an aluminum body laptop that weighs 5lbs too much...

Simon

@ThomasPornin Are you using OS X on your Mac or Linux?

AJ Henderson

@ton.yeung the razerblade isn't integrated graphics

David Freitag

@ton.yeung The specific laptop I have in mind hasn't been released, but there are other versions that are the same size/weight/price with lesser specs. hidevolution.com/new-laptops/…

AJ Henderson

it's a high side of mid-range nvidia chip as I recall

David Freitag

18:29

Yes an 860M iirc

AJ Henderson

the fact it wasn't an 880 is why I went with a lenovo over it

though I seriously considered one

screen was too small though

Simon

@DavidFreitag Interesting location for a DVD drive.

David Freitag

No, don't buy Razr. It's overpriced and the build quality sucks big time.

AJ Henderson

@ton.yeung it really isn't though

not for its size and build quality

David Freitag

@Simon Heh, there's two hard drive bays and two mSata ports in there. Not to mention the big ass graphics card.

AJ Henderson

18:31

but if you don't mind a bit more size, you can get the same hardware for half the price

@ton.yeung for the lenovo?

David Freitag

@AJHenderson A friend of mine bought a razrblade pro. Broke in two weeks and Razr said it was his fault. $2600 down the tubes

AJ Henderson

shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/y-series/y580

that's the one I got

I'm pretty happy with it overall

Simon

No you're not.

David Freitag

That's thicker than what I want :b

AJ Henderson

@FEichinger all I did was go to a public high school

David Freitag

18:34

@AJHenderson You're happy with 1366x768? That's... sad.

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag I went with the top end model

the top end is 1920 by 1080

David Freitag

@AJHenderson Your link says 1366x768.

AJ Henderson

the Y580 has different sub-models

that's the base one

Simon

@DavidFreitag Why didn't you say "you donut" at the end of your sentence?

AJ Henderson

normally if they had them in stock, you could pick from about 8 different sub models on the next page

Simon

18:35

It was just perfect.

David Freitag

I honestly can't believe that a "Gaming laptop" with a GTX660M and 1366x768 is sold out.

@Simon It was implied.

AJ Henderson

it might be that it is no longer the current model too

David Freitag

Like it was there.

AJ Henderson

I got mine over two years ago

Simon

@DavidFreitag Oh ok, nice.

Thomas Pornin

18:36

@Simon OS X

In fact it would make relatively little sense to use Linux on a Mac

David Freitag

@ton.yeung There are other benefits to getting a docking station. Some of them offer PCIe slots and HDD/mSata bays

Thomas Pornin

Because you can have hardware with similar characteristics and Linux-capable for much less.

Simon

@ThomasPornin I agree but I've seen people do it anyway.

Thomas Pornin

I bought a Mac to save time.

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag what did they say he did to it?

my return with them for my Tiamat 7.1 was very smooth. I had even tried taking one of them apart to fix it myself and they didn't care

Thomas Pornin

18:38

With a Mac + OS X, when you plug some new hardware, it either works right away, or it will never work and you can discard it.

Either way, it saves a lot of time.

Simon

Hehe

David Freitag

@AJHenderson They said it overheated and somehow fried all of the "sensitive electronics". Basically everything got cooked. Even the Hard drive wouldn't work in another computer.

Thomas Pornin

I have done, along the years, a lot of tweaking to make some hardware work on Linux, and though it usually ends up working, I found that it was too expensive (because I give a high value to my free time).

The same applies to Windows, by the way.

Simon

What hardware?

Thomas Pornin

Printers, scanners...

Simon

18:39

Oh.

Thomas Pornin

also graphic cards.

David Freitag

Razr said they had no idea how it could happen with no water damage, but they did know for sure that it was my friend's fault. He was using it on the desk at school and it just shut off randomly.

Nope just sounds like a peuny SSD

But knowing lenovo the default setup uses that as a cache drive or something silly like that

Thomas Pornin

@ton.yeung They write "1TB 5400 RPM + 24GB SSD" so if that is not an hybrid drive, they sure intend to use it as if it was a single hybrid drive.

AJ Henderson

@ton.yeung it is a kind of hybrid drive

Thomas Pornin

I have at home a computer with an 8 GB SSD

Simon

18:43

What's the size of a Windows 8 installation?

AJ Henderson

it's technically a small seperate SSD I believe, but software ends up using it for caching

my 580 has the same setup

I can put stuff on it, but anything I don't use gets automatically used for faster transfer

David Freitag

@ton.yeung You would be able to. My guess is it's an mSata drive. I have seen a few lenovo laptops that pair a small SSD as a cache drive with a 1TB 5600rpm HDD

AJ Henderson

I kind of think it may be an SSD built right in to the system board though

David Freitag

@ton.yeung There's no hybrid. It's two separate drives

@AJHenderson Asus pulls that crap. It's so annoying.

AJ Henderson

I don't recall having two bays on my laptop

but I'll check when I get home tonight

David Freitag

18:45

@AJHenderson You do know what an mSata looks like, right?

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag I do now

it looks like what I expected it to

David Freitag

it's just smaller

looks a lot like a WiFi card

AJ Henderson

similar to the micro PCI-e daughter cards

but with a sata port

rather than a PCI express one

David Freitag

Like this: newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA12K12P2946

AJ Henderson

or actually, I have a better idea

David Freitag

18:48

Buy a desktop?

Rоry McCune

@ton.yeung if you're looking for laptops I can recommend store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/…

has space for a 2.5" SSD and an mSATA one

I'm planning to fit the mSATA if I run out of room on the main one

David Freitag

Heh, first laptop I have seen in a while with AMD graphics

Rоry McCune

@ton.yeung it has a discrete video card :)

David Freitag

@ton.yeung AMD Radeon HD 8750M (1 GB GDDR5 dedicated)

Rоry McCune

combo of an Intel one for low power and discrete for things that require more oomph

AJ Henderson

18:52

looking at the hardware maintenance manual on the 580 anyway does not have a user replaceable second drive

so it is either system board mounted or integrated with the HDD

David Freitag

@AJHenderson It's probably just a bunch of NAND chips soldered to your mobo. At least that's how Asus does it

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag that's my guess

Rоry McCune

only reason I recommend it is that it's the first laptop where I like the keyboard and the screen and the touchpad and the weight and the power

oh and the port selection

and I can open up the base to upgrade stuff

AJ Henderson

@RоryMcCune I've never met a touchpad I liked

David Freitag

@RоryMcCune Yeah but it's got a lie7!

AJ Henderson

18:53

IBM knub forever

Rоry McCune

@AJHenderson it has one of those :)

AJ Henderson

I <3 the touchnipple

3

Rоry McCune

@AJHenderson well I'll be honest and say the only other one I like is on my Mac Air , that's v.nice too

@DavidFreitag power envelopes are tricky things

AJ Henderson

I had an HP prior to the Vaio that I had prior to the Lenovo

Rоry McCune

@ton.yeung base slides off for easy access to HDD mSATA and memory slots

AJ Henderson

18:54

I loved it up until the day that both my brothers and mine died from hardware faults, not electronics mind you

David Freitag

@RоryMcCune Yeah but still come on, it's total bullshit! What you really have is a top end i5 CPU.

AJ Henderson

the actual physical brackets that held the thing together failed

Rоry McCune

@DavidFreitag from the options available it's the best I could find :)

@ton.yeung yeah CPU/GPU replacement in a laptop would be .... tricky

AJ Henderson

@RоryMcCune cpu isn't always

some are socketed

David Freitag

@RоryMcCune Yeah that's totally true. Laptops got stupid pricey all of a sudden. Anything with a true quadcore with hyperthreading is $2K+

AJ Henderson

18:56

GPU's are socketed less often though

and even when they are, they are often custom boards

David Freitag

@AJHenderson Yeah but most of the time they have a connector

Rоry McCune

@AJHenderson cool.. I've not seen too many of those, TBH it's been a while since I upgraded CPUs on things even in a desktop. Easier performance wins these days by upgrading storage to SSDs

David Freitag

I made a custom breakout board for one of the Asus ROG laptops so a friend of mine could upgrade his card to the GTX860M from the newer ROG

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag I've mostly had directly soldered chips

for GPU

David Freitag

Although now it means his laptop isn't technically "portable" anymore since the GPU isn't inside of the laptop

AJ Henderson

18:58

actually had two laptops that died from deseating

was able to reflow one but the other killed hte laptop

David Freitag

@AJHenderson Toaster oven

AJ Henderson

hehe, see previous reflow comment :)

David Freitag

Although if it's a toshitbox don't try the reflow. They don't glue their components down so anything on the bottom of the board will fall off

AJ Henderson

@DavidFreitag ...

wow

@ton.yeung I'm a software developer :)

but I'm unusually knowledgeable of hardware for a dev

David Freitag

Yep. Don't try to do any manual reworking with a soldering iron either. Last time I did that the soldermask wiped away like it was nothing.

Rory Alsop

19:01

Mmmmmm - chicken fajita quesadillas

David Freitag

@ton.yeung If you are learning to design PCBs i recommend downloading cadsoft eagle and studying the Arduino board designs.

AJ Henderson

I actually added bluetooth to my laptop in college that didn't support it officially. Had a near panic attack when I needed a HDD replaced under warranty and the shop guy took it in back and started pulling it apart when he saw the bluetooth bezel

turns out he was just curious how I managed to pull it off cause the IBM techs had said it couldn't be done

which was probably technically true since I had to hack the broadcom bluetooth stack in to working on it

TildalWave

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) was a scheduled international passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. The Boeing 777-200ER crashed near Hrabove in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, about from the Ukrainian border with Russia on 17 July 2014, carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew members. This area is currently part of the ongoing 2014 insurgency in Donbass conflict zone. Initial reports from Interfax quoted an unnamed source in the Ukrainian security apparatus as suggesting that the aircraft was shot down at an altitude of by a surface-to-air missile. With 280 passengers a...

How can there already be a Wiki article about it?

I mean ... they cover news now?

Simon

Wiki is a magical entity.

AJ Henderson

@ton.yeung well technically, I was using the hardware that was designed for the broader model

basically there was a model with bluetooth and no wifi and a model with wifi but no bluetooth

I installed the bluetooth module on the wifi model

and then hacked the broadcom licensing stuff to think it was on a bluetooth model

err qualcom

not broadcom

qualcom is a pita

FEichinger

19:10

@TildalWave You didn't know?

They even have a "currently happening" template!

TildalWave

Well I knew it's bad, I just didn't know it's THAT bad

FEichinger

Also, why does it always hit Malaysia Airlines?

TildalWave

Did someone already create a Wiki page on DMZ's attitude towards it?

FEichinger

@TildalWave It has already been deleted as "not supported by facts".

TildalWave

@FEichinger magnetic charm?

@ton.yeung you do realize those separatists are certifiable retards, right?

FEichinger

19:13

Oh, yay, let's talk politics. Because we didn't have enough arguments in this room yet.

TildalWave

how about how family members are good enough, if you're finishing your day with the 3rd bottle of vodka?

FEichinger

@ton.yeung Airspace belongs to the country beneath it. Which is New Russia, in this case.

AJ Henderson

@TildalWave I still love that Tom Clancy wrote about this before he died

not the airplane getting shot down, but the whole russia invasion thing

M'vy

sad story

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