The DMZ

AviD

13:06

@Xander well that one is there too - if your first language is python, you're not really learning how a computer works, are you.

Xander

@AviD Ah, I misunderstood. I wasn't thinking about from a software perspective, I was thinking hardware. Yes, that's true.

FEichinger

@AviD Shuddup!

Seriously, though, learning how a computer works is neglected a lot nowadays, because Windows.

The common no-knowledge-let-me-try-some-programming Windows user doesn't know processor architecture or what MSI is, because they no longer "need to".

Xander

@FEichinger I don't think it's because Windows at all. I think it's becuase hard, and lazy.

FEichinger

@Xander No, there is absolutely no incentive to get deeper into how computers work, because Windows a) doesn't need you to and b) actively prevents you from it by hiding functionality.

Why would you want to know how it works when the OS pretends to do everything for you anyway?

Mac OS isn't much better in that regard, and neither are mainstream/"beginner" Linux distros.

Terry Chia

@FEichinger Same thing with Linux and OS X.

Xander

13:15

@FEichinger That can be said about every OS that actual people actually use.

FEichinger

@Terry inb4

But Windows is worse insofar as you usually don't even need to know your hardware at all, because everything comes pre-packaged for it.

And, again, Windows actively hides functionality. Re-enabling telnet comes to mind.

Nick

@FEichinger define "beginner distros" ;p

Xander

@FEichinger And you do for MacOS? Or iOS? Or Andriod? or Ubuntu? Or Mint?

Terry Chia

@FEichinger Why in the world would you want to enable telnet?

Xander

@FEichinger That's a bit of a reach.

FEichinger

13:22

Mac OS and iOS are a bad example for that, what with Apple hardware. And Ubuntu still has a lot of driver issues where knowing your hardware is crucial.

As I said, Mac OS and a lot of Linux distros aren't much better, but they still do a lot less to actively keep the user from getting to know their actual bloody PC.

Xander

@FEichinger And this is why "Linux on the Desktop" has made no significant in-roads in the last 15 years. Because people don't want to have to know about their hardware. They want it to just work. It's not a problem caused by Microsoft amd Apple, Microsoft and Apple are solving a problem that Linux doesn't.

FEichinger

Solving a problem by creating another.

kalina

Linux is horrible

Windows 9 is awesome

Terry Chia

@FEichinger So I assume you are running LFS on hardware you hand-soldered?

No? YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR HARDWARE ENOUGH!

kalina

oh no he needs to fab his own chips

Xander

13:31

@FEichinger No, you're simply attributing cause where there is none. Windows, MacOS, iOS, and so forth, simply reduce the friction for the user, which is what the vast majority of users are looking for. If you don't like that experience, that's fine. However, the fact that you don't like it does not a systemic problem make.

If you tell those users that "for their own good" they need to only use OSes were they have to compile everything from source, or hack on config files to make thing work, you're not solving a problem, you're just preventing most people from using computers, because it is not longer worth the hassle.

kalina

if you don't self fab you don't know your hardware well enough to be allowed to use technology

3

Terry Chia

^

kalina

I don't care that you can overclock to 5ghz, did you fab your own chips? I get 16mhz and this is 100% me baby.

FEichinger

@Xander I'm saying there is no point in bitching about newbie devs not knowing their PC in the slightest, when thst's exactly what we've been incentivizing for decades.

kalina

@FEichinger let's solve one problem at a time

Get rid of PHP first

seasoned developers can't preach to newbies while they're coding PHP

secondly

Xander

13:34

@FEichinger Nobody's bitching about anybody not knowing anything. What we were discussing, was that if a school is going to have a programming curriculum, they need to teach the fundamentals first.

kalina

who cares about local hardware these days anyway? web apps for everything

Terry Chia

@FEichinger You have a slight misconception. No one is suggestion newbie devs not know anything about the computer they are using. What we are suggesting is that the vast majority of the population do not need that level of detail.

Arperum

ugh, bughunting in some old self-made php cms... This is going to end bad...

kalina

I am happy that when I start up my PC it just works

I am happy that when I tap something on my phone it just works

I'm happy that when I plug them into each other it just works

AviD

wait, is @FEichinger a neckbeard and we didn't even know??

kalina

13:36

I don't like having to know that fdisk in linux doesn't support drives above 1tb in size and that it will happily repartition your drive without even mentioning it

AviD

@FEichinger big difference between users and developers.

Xander

@AviD Weird isn't it, since he's a PHP developer. :-P

kalina

That knowledge uses up space that I could use for happy memories

AviD

I'm not sure where PHPers fall in that.

kalina

or, redundancy for future brain damage

AviD

13:37

@Xander inorite?

@TerryChia perhaps he agrees with the mayor of NYC in that everybody should be programming.

Coding as the new literacy.

kalina

Linux will never be a truly mainstream desktop operating system in its current form because it's written by people who don't mind tweaking stuff to make it work, and that same group of people generally have an elitist attitude that if you don't want to know how to make it work then you shouldn't be there in the first place

Xander

@AviD Ha ha, I was just thinking about that. Specifically, what a total buffoon that guy is.

FEichinger

@AviD Basic knowledge of computers should indeed be the new literacy. We have created a mediun that's literally magic to a lot of people. That is not good.

Programming is a wholly different matter in that regard, though.

Terry Chia

@FEichinger "Basic knowledge of computers" most definitely does not include in-depth knowledge about the hardware you are running on.

FEichinger

Knowing how your OS can install software should.

@Terry Knowing what damned processor architecture you have should.

Xander

13:44

@FEichinger I disagree that it isn't good. I think it's inevitable. With the number of systems we depend on every day, we can't know how they all work, and if we aren't required to maintain them, the knowledge is not essential. For another example, the source of the food that appears in the grocery store is also magic to most people. If it stopped one day, most urbanites wouldn't start providing for themselves, they'd eventually starve. Should we all become proficient farmers as well?

Terry Chia

@Xander What? Playing Farmville doesn't count?

@FEichinger I completely disagree.

Xander

@TerryChia Me too. It's utterly irrelevant to virtually everybody.

FEichinger

Good for you. Does't change my opinion on the matter.

AviD

@Xander he's actually not, except for this.

Xander

@AviD We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

AviD

13:47

@FEichinger it is strange, though, that you use PHP in spite of these opinions.

Simon

@kalina OH COME ON I DON'T HAVE A MONOBROW

FEichinger

@AviD My reasons for using PHP are purely economical. I don't even have a problem with OSs catering to no-effort, I have a problem when people are surprised by said lack of effort prevailing because of it.

Of course people don't want to know. Doesn't mean we need to encourage it.

It's economical to do so, sure. But still bad. And, as I said before, I full well agree that PHP is bad just as well.

Simon

Personally, I think that PHP has revolutionized programming.

Terry Chia

@Simon I agree. It makes shitty developers think they can program.

Simon

Exactly.

I, myself, can program because I code in PHP.

Nick

13:59

@TerryChia still 90% of the web depends on it

Lucas Kauffman

@Simon s/program/briccoler/

Terry Chia

@Nick Mcdonalds is popular. Doesn't make it good.

Simon

@TerryChia It's so fucking tasty

AviD

@Nick yeah you wish.

Nick

@AviD it does...

AviD

14:03

@TerryChia oh please. Even thats not new to PHP, they just do it more so.

hey, the one thing PHP does well!

Simon

@AviD Your mom?

AviD

heh, @Simon actually made me chuckle.

FEichinger

PHP certainly still runs some of the biggest sites out there - and an awful lot of sites.

Terry Chia

@AviD Doesn't his mere presence in the room do that?

FEichinger

I'd estimate more around 60-70%, though. ASP and Java environments are pretty widespread as well.

Node is getting too much traction for my tastes, and the python environments are still not getting popular.

And, I said this before, if python became more widespread, I'd switch in a heartbeat. But the way it is right now, it's not economical to do so, when you're distributing your product to a broad audience.

Simon

14:08

heartbleed*

FEichinger

A dedicated single web project in Python? Definitely, would do it instantly.

A product for distribution to people with vastly varying knowledge of server administration? Not gonna do that in non-PHP anytime soon.

Lucas Kauffman

14:20

@AviD not sure if this (security.stackexchange.com/questions/62183/…) is primarly opinion based or just a shitty question

kalina

hello my monobrowed friends

how is the world of fast moving technology?

neckbeards still going strong?

Nick

@kalina trims his neckbeard

Simon

@kalina Stronger than ever.

FEichinger

14:37

Home. Yay. \o/

Simon

Does it mean pizza time?

FEichinger

14:53

Of course it means pizza time.

kalina

15:08

:(

I have overdosed

the world is getting dark

Simon

wat

Maybe that's a wake the fuck up call.

And that acid should only be used in a synth.

Kisunminttu

@kalina On what?

Simon

@Kisunminttu Let's hope it's cake.

Kisunminttu

@Simon Forreal.

FEichinger

15:27

@kalina Oh for heaven's sake. >.>

kalina

sour cream

I feel so sick

Simon

lulz

FEichinger

See what you have done to me? My response to this kind of stuff isn't "Oh crap, what's going on?" it's "Not this again ..."

kalina

I should have just never said anything ever again and left you with the ultimate cliffhanger

Terry Chia

Dual EC, removed from OpenSSL for one glorious week, is coming back in the next OpenSSL-FIPS.

Tweeted by matthew_d_green on July 2, 2014 at 3:19 PM

That's good news.

kalina

15:32

no it's not

Simon

^

tylerl

@TerryChia Is Dual EC still required for FIPS certification?

It might be.

Terry Chia

@tylerl I'm not sure how accurate this is but it makes sense:

@0xabad1dea Well you see, it took so long to approve the un-DualECed version that the _next_ version was submitted with it still in.

Tweeted by matthew_d_green on July 2, 2014 at 3:22 PM in reply to 0xabad1dea

tylerl

Part of the justification for the LibreSSL people forking OpenSSL was that the core OpenSSL developers had essentially become FIPS certification consultants, and had lost interest in security since there was more money to be made in Compliance.

Terry Chia

Good news is that OpenSSL is moving FIPS code out of the main tree.

tylerl

15:53

@TerryChia There is this though: NIST Removes DUAL-EC From Draft Guidance on RNGs

kalina

DISASTER

ROCKS FALL, EVERYBODY DIES

Nick

@kalina EVERYBODY PANIC!

theres a .fish TLD what...

TildalWave

Someone's posting ~~alot~~ a lot of suggested edits. Thankfully, he seems quite thorough ...

Terry Chia

@TildalWave We have another @kalina?

TildalWave

16:08

looks like we have a new badge security.stackexchange.com/help/badges/1149/curious

@TerryChia don't force me in asking rhetorical questions :P

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Interesting. Netted that on four sites.

TildalWave

and now Inquisitive badge ... now I wonder if there's some gold in there ... somewhere ... over the rainbow ... too

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Hum. I didn't get that. Probably because I don't have 30 questions here.

security.stackexchange.com/help/badges/1151/socratic

This is pretty telling.

TildalWave

@TerryChia there is a gold one ... "Socratic"

> Asked a good question on 100 separate days, and maintains a positive question record.

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Frankly? I'm a little offended his questions are considered "good".

TildalWave

16:15

there there

Simon

I think those badges are unfair for people like me who know everything and don't need to ask questions.

TildalWave

I'm not sure I quite get the " and maintains a positive question record" part

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Votes on all questions must be net positive maybe?

Simon

^ That's what I'm understanding too

TildalWave

could be

so for the gold badge you'd have to have at least 100 questions (more, if you asked multiple on a single day), and their total score should be positive

good luck! LOL

I have highest number of questions on SEx.SE and that's 55 ... and writing questions isn't easy, I tell you that. Even less easy if you already have a good idea of what the answer would be like LOL

Terry Chia

16:22

@TildalWave Exactly.

Writing decent answers is much easier than writing decent questions.

TildalWave

for some of my questions there, I know it took me a lot longer than it would (or it actually did) writing an answer for them

hehe we said the same thing

You're so agreeable today @Terry, did hell really freeze over?

Nick

Soo... DO offers 20K $ in hosting to whoever creates the 2 millionth VPS

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Cmon! I'm a pretty agreeable person unless I'm intentionally trolling you.

@Nick How many are we short?

Nick

@TerryChia currently there are 1,982,628

TildalWave

@tylerl writing in PHP, @Simon actually using better judgment, @Adnan enjoying himself, ... something isn't right

Simon

16:25

I also moved out of my parents' place.

THAT'S SO ODD

Terry Chia

@Nick Ok, so let's wait a bit then spin up 4000 VPS-es. Time it right and you profit.

Nick

@TerryChia they have an api ... ill just set it on a while true loop ;p

Terry Chia

@Simon To the toolshed in the garden?

Nick

j/k

TildalWave

@Simon welcome to the world of GOOD, JUNK, FOOD!

Simon

16:26

@TerryChia Still a huge step for me.

@TildalWave So far I'm eating healthier than ever it seems.

TildalWave

heh that's what I did when I first moved

Rоry McCune

TildalWave

started cooking, enjoying it even ...

@RоryMcCune you don't look like you had too much of it tho

Simon

@TildalWave Yeah, I kind of enjoy it too.

TildalWave

next stop, retiring, tending to your own garden

tho you might want to learn something else than PHP in your lifetime :P

Simon

16:35

Those who embrace the #yolo philosophy do not simply learn PHP.

TildalWave

the PHorce is strong with this one

Simon

hehe

Terry Chia

@TildalWave I'm offended that you use a Star Wars reference and PHP in the same sentence.

TildalWave

@TerryChia sorry, lapse in concentration must have pulled me to the dark side for a mo there :}

@TerryChia Tho someone did make a LEGO Star Wars movie, which is analogous to PHP + Star Wars in some ways

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Heh. LEGO is awesome. Unlike PHP.

TildalWave

16:43

LEGO is awesome, for its purpose, but your front doors likely aren't made of LEGO

Or is LEGO a plural noun, i.e. "LEGO are"?

Simon

You got to be fucking kidding me

PHP is a FUCKING piece of shit.

4

"Because PHP's integer type is signed and many platforms use 32bit integers, some filesystem functions may return unexpected results for files which are larger than 2GB."

And that's the reason why my scripts fail with this 9 GB file I guess.

TildalWave

@Simon If you wanna handle larger bricks, you need to move from LEGO back to Duplo :P

This is DMZ! ^

Simon

Oh lawd, I had no idea what Duplo was.

Rоry McCune

@TildalWave heh getting older == needing to be more careful on the food+excercise front. Long gone are the days where I could eat bacon every day without piling on the pounts..

FEichinger

@Simon Oh, you're finally realizing that, too?

Simon

16:54

@FEichinger Usually, I can deal with its stupid shit but now this is just too much.

FEichinger

How on Earth did you use PHP for so long and not know this?

Simon

I rarely have to handle file upload/download.

kalina

I got 6 curious badges

there also seems to be two others

Inquisitive Asked a good question on 30 separate days, and maintains a positive question record..

Socratic Asked a good question on 100 separate days, and maintains a positive question record..

AJ Henderson

@kalina I don't have 30 questions network wide :(

kalina

well there's more badges associated with questions

Kisunminttu

17:03

I have 1 question

kalina

so half of the time I'm just seeding stuff that I think would be useful

normally works out as well, what with one of those seeded questions being amongst the highest viewed questions on arqade

Simon

@Kisunminttu Yes and it's a scary one that I don't even wanna click on.

TildalWave

@Kisunminttu questions about what's @Adnan up to are off-topic :P

kalina

2

Q: Why do some women have menstruation-like spotting throughout their pregnancy?

An interesting question that was asked during a lecture about human reproduction: what is the biological mechanism behind some pregnant women getting monthly spotting that they mistake for a regular period? I've found articles and research papers about bleeding during zygote implantation, ectopic...

TildalWave

Shit I should actually know this, we had it during our biology classes. Thankfully, I forgot all about it

Kisunminttu

17:08

@kalina Have yet to find an answer to that one.

kalina

don't ask me, I was stoned all the way through school

Simon

pls no

Kisunminttu

@TildalWave Interesting, considering that the only explanations I found were limited to either the first 1-2 months of the pregnancy or problems during...

The first and only answer I've ever written on SE took me like 2 hours to finish. I was so nervous, but @Adnan encouraged me to write it.

kalina

I generally try to not spend two hours writing an answer

TildalWave

Yes, those are frequent, but I do remember something about this "throughout pregnancy" bit ... I'll try to find it.

@Kisunminttu OK found something: "Breakthrough Bleeding", "Ectopic Pregnancy", "Bleeding From The Placenta", "Bleeding After Sex" are four of the possible explanations that fit your question.

Having all the details from the question in mind, I'd guess "Breakthrough Bleeding" is the closest to a likely explanation.

> During pregnancy, hormones prevent your period from occurring. Sometimes the hormone levels are not yet high enough to stop your period and therefore you have this breakthrough bleeding. It can last for around three months – after this time the placenta begins to take over hormone production from your ovaries. Some women may experience breakthrough bleeding throughout the whole pregnancy and have healthy babies, under the close watch of their carer.

Kisunminttu

17:23

@TildalWave Alright, so it's probably hormonal... Figures :P

@TildalWave Thanks for taking the time :)

TildalWave

@Kisunminttu if it's still periodic, then yes, it should be related

@Kisunminttu hey, it wasn't me!! :P

you're welcome :)

Kisunminttu

@TildalWave It's very interesting, though, because the hormonal balance changes so much when a woman is pregnant.

TildalWave

yes, I think we've all noticed that ...

kalina

@TildalWave what are you suggesting?

Kisunminttu

@TildalWave Really tempted to respond to that, but I think I'll pass.

TildalWave

17:26

@kalina nothing, sorry, didn't mean it to read personal

kalina

who said anything about personal?

TildalWave

mood swings are quite normal tho

and cravings

Kisunminttu

@kalina Hey, it's clearly you or me.

kalina

@TildalWave yeah try being around a guy when he doesn't get what he wants

TildalWave

... and wanting to kill someone at times

Kisunminttu

17:27

@TildalWave Basically like some women during PMS or on their period :P

TildalWave

@kalina that's actually a good point

kalina

every point I make is good -.-

I'm insulted that you believe otherwise!

Kisunminttu

The weather is horrendous over here

TildalWave

@Kisunminttu Looks like you could self-answer that question of yours on Biology with a bit more research of what exactly is going on during Breakthrough Bleeding and why it happens. Slight hormonal imbalance would be my guess, or perhaps placenta deformation. Tho there might be several causes. Something to research during the crap weather ;)

Kisunminttu

@TildalWave It's a good probanswer. Will do that at some point, thank you :) right now I have to start packing my gym bag, though...

TildalWave

17:43

58

Q: Asking days badges

A couple of months ago, I suggested a set of badges for asking questions. The responses were... mixed. The top answer can be summarized: In practice, all this would do is encourage people to ask yet more stupid, worthless questions and we have quite enough of that as it is. We believe that ...

feature-request status-completed questions badges

so the criteria seems to be: (total questions - negative questions - closed - deleted)/total questions >= 0.5

FEichinger

@kalina Tsk, tsk, tsk.

TildalWave

18:36

2

this made me chuckle a bit ^ cc @RoryAlsop

makerofthings7

19:06

I wonder if there is a better way to tag this

1

Q: Sniffing 2400bps v22bis modem traffic

I am working with alarm signalling systems at the moment, and they communicate with 2400bps v22bis modems. I would like to be able to intercept the traffic on the phone line as a proof of concept. The only device/software I can find to do this is the 3am Linescope. This appears to be a phone l...

sniffer

Modem, telecom, don't exist. Phone does, but this isn't a phone.

Xander

@makerofthings7 I think there are definitely tags would be more appropriate, but I don't know how useful they'd be, given that we might not have many/any other questions that match. Possibly worth a check though. I was thinking something along the lines of telephony and analog signaling.

Rоry McCune

19:25

@TildalWave heh

TildalWave

19:37

@Xander didn't you just describe a modem?

Xander

@TildalWave LOL, well, yes, ok. You have me there.

Gilles

21:48

3

Q: Why doesn't GCM HTTPS work with nginx?

Since these two are using GCM: www.ssllabs.com: ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 www.google.com: ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 We wanted to make our webserver HTTPS connection more secure (Don't look at the self-signed certificate, that doesn't count right now...). We are using an OpenBSD 5.4 64bit...

openbsd openssl https

Scott Pack

23:23

@AviD I'd like to point out that periods are the best thing ever. Your domestic situation explains your erroneous viewpoint.

FEichinger

This reads so wrong, in so many ways.

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