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03:57
pokes @AviD (:
@avid send me an email (rebecca@se) with concrete details for OWASP please? ie, kinda like a proposal. Lay out the specifics of costs and the benefits? Thanks.
 
4 hours later…
08:11
Hi there!
08:46
morning @Mvy
Hey @Rory, How are you?
bit tired - had a big gig last night so not much sleep. All good though. Last day in current contract - start new job on Monday.
How are you?
the xkcd question has *9000 views!!
Hum same, without the gig and the new job. So basically: tired :P
8985 exactly :P
So new job? Is it completly different than you current?
it's almost completely the same:-)
I used to run a security consulting team for Ernst & Young, currently I run my own security consultancy, from Monday I will be building a security consultancy team for PwC.
all fun and games
Nice
09:03
15
Q: What are the biggest unsolved problems in IT Security?

Andreas ArnoldJust recently I thought about all the solved problems in IT security, like XSS (which one can mitigate with input validation), SQL Injection (mitigated with prepared statements), etc. Now I'm wondering, what are the biggest unsolved security problems of the year 2010? I'm wondering here if there...

1. Why 2. Should we clear some answers in there?
(BTW [tag:x] don't work in multiline?)
good point - I'll get a quick look through and see if there is a better tag
For 2. I'm tempted to flag all ans that are too loose Like : "The biggest problem in IT security is the end user."
It's purely subjective, even if its true.
No reference to anything... its just like I toss a coin an see if it will grow as a tree.
:-)
yep - those answers may well be correct, but they aren't useful unless they are completed with "...and here is what we do to protect against end user problems and risks..." etc
I think I'll grab my flag backpack. :P
flagpack
09:16
To balance, I also tossed some upvotes from my votepack :P
excellent - both are invaluable. The flags force us mods to do something about the low quality stuff, and the community votes up and down are the real value in the site
09:56
@Ninefingers - have quickly reviewed. Added a small final paragraph - if that looks okay, let me know
Hi @JeffFerland
Good morning.
Hi
It's the unholy hour of 6am here. Resumes, resumes, resumes...
fun fun fun (not)
I hadn't noticed this before, but the apparent bar for a security job (years of experience, degree wise, etc) at Google is lower than most of their other positions.
10:00
interesting...I wonder if that reflects the general desperate need for security vacancies to be filled
I have an ex-colleague who went to work in security for Google in Ireland. She absolutely loves it
really good employer
@RoryAlsop Congrats on Monday?
Thanks:-) Really looking forward to it.
10:15
Crazy things that random people non-attendees said about DEFCON at DEFCON
Some of them are brilliant - shows once again how little understanding non-security folks have of what really happens in this space
(one of my eternal soapboxes - I spend so much of my time trying to bridge that gap)
> Most of them tip okay.
@Mvy LOL
Weirdness: I didn't know I'd get notice of flagged items in chat...
^^
Maybe it's about reputation somehow
like cumulative reputation of SE sites?
10:28
that has been happening a bit the last few days
not sure it's supposed to
I have had notifiers flag up about stuff on sites that I don't even visit
yep
hm
-2
A: XKCD #936: Short complex password, or long dictionary passphrase?

AndreasAs some people already stated (so I'm not going to repeat that), it depends on the mechanism of brute-force attacks and dictionary attacks being used. First of all, the best way to keep an attacker from attacking is taking away the target in the first place. None of my servers have SSH running o...

Put a lot of attention in this ans. Unfortunately it's mostly off-topic
BTW, I think we have a good deal for a future QotW
If we ever want to boost the blog frequentation :P
time to eat.
11:26
@JeffFerland I think that I can internally justify that. Security tends not to be one's first IT job, though that might be changing with the increase in degree programs in the field.
So it actually seems somewhat reasonable to assume that anyone with 5 years in a security position might actually have had 3-5 years in another IT job already.
11:41
My master degree was about security.
And most of my classmates are now in a security position at some company in Luxembourg.
Yes yes,. I addressed you people in that statement :)
Yeah. That was just an example :P
For all intents and purposes, it was my first job too. That was primarily because a security analyst was one of my students during my grad program, though.
Speaking of work, I should probably go there.
12:11
posted on August 12, 2011 by roryalsop

This week’s post came from this question: I just discovered major security flaws in my web store!, but covers a wider scope and includes some resources on Security Stack Exchange on defending your website. Any application you connect to the Internet will be attacked within minutes of plugging it in, so you need to look [...]

Riding motorcycle: awesome. Riding it to work? Blah.
@JeffFerland Chilly?
12:40
I am late for my first 0-day discovery it seems :P
13:00
@ScottPack Temperature is fine. Bed is comfier, though.
yawn
13:33
greetings
morning, all
ey up @Thee, @Ormis
Well, I just heard about Google+ Games. Now I'm not sure if I wanna join Google+ anymore.
google+ games?
and afternoon @Iszi
13:47
oh god they're turning into facebook...
@RoryAlsop Morning
@TheEvilPhoenix My sentiments exactly.
soon enough they'll allow users to upload apps
which will turn into a massive nightmare
just like facebook
:P
@JeffFerland I opened the windows last night, which resulted in having the drapes fully drawn on my east facing double windows.
isn't that exactly what xkcd said - it's like facebook, only not facebook:-)
Needless to say, I was awake long before my alarm went off.
13:50
@RoryAlsop +1
@ScottPack Hahaha... Good morning, eh?
@ScottPack I wasn't awake until well after my second coffee
was a bit late home after gig:-)
@RoryAlsop you sound like me a tad... how much coffee do you drink in an average day :P
@RoryAlsop One cup of coffee, a gas-station breakfast, and an hour-long drive to work, and I'm still not awake.
About par for the course with me.
@Iszi Pretty much. Though it means I was actually able to lay in bed listening to the radio, as opposed to waiting, not understanding the news, for the weather report.
13:51
@Iszi add espresso to that :P
@Iszi Yeah, I did that kind of commute for a while. My official response is **Never Again**(tm).
@ScottPack I've grown numb to it mostly. But now and then, it's a bit of a drag.
Now, I have a 1.7 mile commute. Granted, it takes me through the city centre, so it's typically about a 7 minute drive.
The place I work is cool enough to be worth it, and close enough to the coast (read: close enough to the hurricanes) that I wouldn't want to live nearer.
@Iszi It's what, about half an hour to Cocoa?
13:53
@TheEvilPhoenix usually 1, which means when I have more there is a pretty major effect
@ScottPack From where I work?
@ScottPack mine is a 16 mile commute. I can cycle it in 45 mins, drive it in 25 mins in winter (45 mins in summer) and the train takes 35 mins
Never mind, I'm off by a bit. Still not bad, though.
@RoryAlsop City living :)
@RoryAlsop ah, so you save the more-than-one-cup-of-coffee for when its absolutely necessary, which is once in a blue moon?
regardless, the required one-cup-in-the-morning seems to be my habit :P
@ScottPack From my workplace, it's about a half-hour to the location that Google Earth defines as Cocoa. But my office is only about 6 miles from the actual eastern coast, as the crow flies.
13:57
@ScottPack nah - I'm right out in the country, where I can only see trees and mountains (out the back window)
don't really miss city living - although we have no pubs near us, we do have social membership to the local cricket club 2 minutes walk from the house(which means £20 a year, and drinks are 1/4 the price they are in pubs!)
@ScottPack By the way, where did you want to meet up while you're down here?
@Iszi I was going to talk to my folks and figure out a good place. I just keep getting distracted with life.
@RoryAlsop Oh, that's right, we've talked about were you are. I had rather forgotten.
Hrm... wow. If you look really close, you can see my buddy's antenna tower in his back yard on Google Earth.
@Iszi google earth is quite outdated for my area - at least 3 years out of date, judging by cars, walls and trees
@RoryAlsop Yeah, I remember looking at a shot of a house I used to live in and seeing a car I hadn't owned in some years. I think that one's been updated since.
Yup, updated.
I know the shot of my current house hasn't been taken in the past year or so. Cars are in the wrong parking spots.
14:06
I haven't looked at Earth in years. This could be fun
@RoryAlsop Will take a look past 5.30pm; one comment on QotW5: there's a spellin mis-steak! applciation, bottom of third paragraph.
YUS! /usr/bin/google-earth: ./googleearth-bin: /lib/ld-lsb.so.3: bad ELF interpreter: No such file or directory
hallo hallo
@Ninefingers thanks - will fix
hallo @AviD
@RebeccaChernoff so that's what that sharp stick is for!
@RebeccaChernoff welcome back from vacay...
@RoryAlsop heya
@RebeccaChernoff sent. I was a little wordy... but I really believe in OWASP.
actually, this would be perfect for me: there are two (professional) organizations that I really believe in, and donate a substantial chunk of my time to - OWASP and SEI.
@RoryAlsop 1/4 the price? for £20?? I'd make that back in a couple weeks.
14:20
make that 1 night:-)
I was gonna say, for you ;)
hahahahaha
me, I savor my drinks, don't knock back shots like water...
@ScottPack does bbq mean specifically smoked pork? I meant "grilled food."
me too, I'm just a hardened drinker
"lots of it".
14:22
was it good then? I haven't had a BBQ for a wee while - all that chat made me want one soon
Q: How can I harden my drinking configuration?
4
@Mvy very good
@RoryAlsop yeah, had a guest a while ago, was eyeing my 14-year cask-strength Lagavulin - then, instead of sipping and enjoying it, he kept knocking it back, trying to finish the bottle.
maybe he was looking for the worm.... :S
noooooooooo
that's just wrong
i know, right??
I've been saving about a quarter of that bottle... soooo good.
14:23
i understand knocking back tequila, sambuca and similar - they aren't for tasting, but a proper whisky? that's sacrilege
(actually I believe it's double-cask strength. knock yer socks off...)
@Mvy heheh
@RoryAlsop ohhh, sooo good.
was at a fancy hotel. taaables just laden with all sorts of food.
I nearly killed the last waiter that brought me a whisky with ice...
we do have a good tradition in scotland - when a BBQ is planned, it goes ahead, no matter what the weather. I have had many bbq's under awnings, umbrellas...
normally I wouldnt touch salads and stuff, but even that was fantastic.
and the meat - ohhhh.
@RoryAlsop hehe
Whoah, hey... who's @StackExchange?
14:26
the first time I took my wife to Orkney, newly married, I ordered a Highland Park (single malt, generally voted the best whisky in the world) and she ordered a Highland Park and coke. I think the phrase from the guy at the dartboard over the silence was "You made me miss"
(name the film)
had a very nice lamb kebab, some chicky on a stick, nice fat juicy hotdogs (leftover from my daughter), and of course a steaming pile of steaks.
@Iszi - here or on the tw@tter
?
hehe
@RoryAlsop Here
also had some very nice fuccacia (is that how you spell it?) cooked right there, next to the grill
14:27
I don't see one with that name in the user list
probably foccacia - a little more polite:-)
@Iszi are you talkin about the feeds posts here in chat?
@RoryAlsop Try pinging @ScottPack. You'll see it pop up after the first letter of the username.
@AviD Might be it... I dunno.
@RoryAlsop hehe. okay, how about this - do you call them hot dogs, sausages, frankfurters, or something else?
@Ninefingers Ah, yeah. That one. Looks like it is the feeds bot.
14:29
@Ninefingers note the id== -2
@Iszi hmm, try pinging it, see if you crash something? ;-)
@AviD that rocks :P
It's@AviD @Iszi indeed. I think it's basically "Community" but for chat.
@AviD depends. I see hot dogs as the frankfurter in a roll with onion, mustard and ketchup
@Iszi @VineetReynolds would suggest checking out the OWASP projects. always looking for spare developer cycles.... owasp.org/index.php/Category:OWASP_Project
@RoryAlsop not sausages?
thought thats what Brit's called em.
@AviD Thanks. I knew you'd have some good input on that.
14:33
a frankfurter is called a sausage here, but a frankfurter in a roll is a hot dog, and a different kid of sausage in a roll is called a "sausage in a roll"
@RoryAlsop lol, so you have to run an algorithm before you can order??
and that may be link or slice
screw it, just bring me a burger.
especially in Edinburgh where you can order a shmokedshaushageshanwichwishaltandshaushe
at 3am
after pub kicking out time
hehehe
for me, they are always "hot dogs" (or just "dogs" for short). Unless they are Chorizos (sp?), but then those really are different.
14:36
what about a lancashire sausage sandwich?
or a cumberland wi ketchup in a bap
y'see
it's not that simple
@AviD it's a full set of design patterns. Nothing but the best food engineering practises here. Also, to confuse things, if you cook a sausage in batter, you call it toad in the hole secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Toad_in_the_hole
LOL
here a chorizo is just another sausage, as is a kasebratwurst etc
@Ninefingers exactly
@Ninefingers ooo that looks nice.
@RoryAlsop no no, its a south american spicey hotdog. Thick and juicy, too, grilled of course.
aye - I love 'em
14:38
oh wait, if it's rolled in some dough and baked, its a "pig in a blanket". guess thats similar to toad in a hole.
my kids slightly prefer pepperoni, or if it must be chorizo they prefer south american to spanish
but then, thats not the name for the frank/dog/sausage, its the whole pastry thing.
mmmm - pigs in blankets - see that's what we in Scotland call sausages wrapped in bacon
huh. that might be the original, and the dough is just the kosher version...
btw, @RoryAlsop, have you seen our spikes in the last 2 days?
shocking.
oh that was brilliant - I was reading a lifehacker article, clicked on the tab to come back here and got an error.: Internet Explorer: Stackoverflow at line 17
14:41
lol
:P
hey @Mvy wanted to ask you about some of your flaggage, if ya dont mind
no pb
(btw @ScottPack I was using that all last night. my brother started by calling me a geek, but then he started using it too.... :D )
@AviD trying to view stats on my android - I don't see much of a spike in total page views. Mid-july was much higher
14:44
the hard drive answer - it may not be a good answer, but it is an answer... no?
you can always just downvote....
@RoryAlsop not quite. close, but still higher now.
20% higher.
July 12th was 5 times higher than anything the last couple of days in the view I have
trying page views, visits, new visits etc
but check out the other stats - uptick in q'a and a's, over 150 new users in the last 2 days!
@RoryAlsop "total page views"? weird....
@AviD Is rather a joke than an answer
In my opinion.
okay, I'm not seeing new users either
will try once I get home - maybe it is not providing the correct info to android
@RoryAlsop only 6.5k, july 28th was 10k, yesterday was 12K.
could be the date range?
14:47
it tells me 3 new users 2 days ago, none yesterday and none today
my date range is 1 jan to today
very weird
indeed
even total page views is definitely wrong - it tells me 120 yesterday, 80 today
hey, what happened july 28th, 2nd biggest spike?
could you be on meta....??
or crypto ;)
oh, bloody hell
you see smart phones and their small screens :-(
I am indeed on meta
oo, new stat: "Feedback from anon users"
@RoryAlsop lol!
cant believe I sussed that
14:50
can't believe i didn't
now I see the lovely spikey graph
wow
@Mvy joke-ish, I think. It's still a solution, sortof.
Yes dear?
nm, I'll leave it, one of the other diamonds will look at it :)
cool - new user spike!
@AviD What, exactly, were you using all night?
14:52
@ScottPack "I flagged that"
@ScottPack gmorning
I flagged a steak, flagged some spicy salad, and flagged something stupid my sis said.
hm
@AviD Giggity
:-)
...flagged... topics 1, 2 and 3
@RoryAlsop I know, right?
@RoryAlsop What? You flagged 99.999% of the chat room?
Hahahahaha
14:57
Oh, so re: BBQ, @AviD. From my experience it pretty much is used exclusively to refer to dishes involving smoked meats and bbq sauce.
hehehe
I get the feeling it used to be used to describe grilled food in general
@ScottPack ah right, but not just prok/brisket.
in UK it only means when you use a barbeque to cook/destroy food..any food, but ideally something removed from an animal
@ScottPack yeah, it pretty much is more of a grill-out than a bbq.
14:58
@AviD That's true, I will occasionally hear mention of "bbq chicken"
@RoryAlsop though there were some very nice veggies on a stick too.
However, when one refers to "eating bbq" then it is pretty much only pulled pork or brisket.
@ScottPack that could be bbq sauce, without the grill.
@RoryAlsop We use the phrase "grilling" to describe said process
@AviD Precisely.
14:59
Hell, one would simply not use a grill at all to make a bbq pulled pork sandwich.
okay, but if you're "having a bbq", does that not imply grilled meat/food?
I don't think BBQ sauce is as big a thing over here either. I certainly have never seen it used at a BBQ. I tend to marinade all the meats I bbq, but usually I'll do a piri-piri or red wine sauce
@AviD - yes
come to think of it, there was no bbq sauce.
@RoryAlsop I marinate most everything I grill, but I have never cooked my own bbq. :)
hmm, except for the grilled garlic heads. soooo delish!
@ScottPack okay, now I'm confused.
you grill, but you dont consider having cooked your own bbq?
not even when your wife's away? ;) hurhurhur
15:02
hur hur hur
I will host a cook-out, and at that event there will often be grilling.
but thats not a bbq?
ah - here it is tradition that the host runs first stint at the BBQ, followed by handing it over to father/father-in-law/grandads etc
@AviD Not since the 50s :)
(wives etc have more sense)
15:04
cheezuuuus. that xkcd q is closing in on getting its poster a "Famous Question" badge. Already garnered the "Great Question" badge, of course.
I think it's just divergence of language more than anything else. Sometimes I'll hear people refer to a lawn party that involves cooking food outside as a BBQ. However, more often than not the term bbq is used to refer to either a certain type of sauce or the smoked flesh of pork and/or brisket served with said sauce
@JeffAtwood had to protect it....
@AviD dammit - wish I had posted it:-)
it has spun off a range of interesting password questions
thats the cool thing. A lot of people came to the site the first time, and actually hung around and even posted more q's.
if we'd got that q a couple months ago, we could have cut the beta short ;)
yeah
the power of xkcd and @JeffAtwood
15:09
didja see Randall's discussion on the comic? ask.metafilter.com/193052/…
By the way, I just heard this question from across the table, "You having bbq today?"
By which they mean, "Are you going to the restaurant for lunch today that serves smoked pork with bbq sauce?"
@ScottPack fair enough. I guess bbq is a bit ambiguous.
"Doing a bbq" wouldnt be, though....
funny coincidence...
so what should one say? "Im going to be grilling my meat outside tonight"....?
heehee, "grilling my meat"...
hm
@AviD Watch out for poison ivy
you should ask meat.steackoverflow.com
hehe
@ScottPack now figure out how to work that into a 150-vote, 10K-view question, and you're all set.
Interesting Fact. Both also grow very well within a quince hedge.
xkcd dropped to 3rd hottest Q
0
Q: gmail security, does signing out ensure no-one can cookie hack?

codecompletingIf I click the signout link, does this mean it is not possible for someone to hijack my cookie and sign in with it? While I'm logged in, is it possible for someone who has access to my computer's hard drive to simply grab the cookie and then signin? Does 2-factor authentication help in any of...

Is that up Security's alley?
@random Well I guess it is. Although I would edit this in a more generic question.
15:34
@Mvy @random the answer would absolutely unambiguously be "it depends".
the more generic question wouldnt necessarily answer the gmail question.
@AViD, did you see our top search terms? They include 'phantom inside tabular latex' - is that the new correct horse battery staple?
Is there a policy on copying copyrighted images to SE? It seems worse for an answer like this than e.g. the xkcd password question
0
A: What are the biggest unsolved problems in IT Security?

bjarkefI believe a bit problem currently is password reuse. XKCD #792 illustrates the problem with a "bit" of humour.

@random actually, thats a damn good job of it.
cheers
@RoryAlsop LOL, yes, but with better entropy
@nealmcb its absolutely a problem in general, I believe the FAW covers it. However xkcd does allow free use.
Hum technically it depends XKCD comic license
15:39
XKCD.com: `This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 2.5 License.
This means you're free to copy and share these comics (but not to sell them). `
NC?
So technically user can use this, but not SEN?
SEN?
StackExchange Network
SE Inc.
ah, thats commonly SEI.
I guess SEN is the French version ;)
well, I gots to go....
Hum.
15:42
have a great weekend everyone!
N is for Network but...
You too
did not necessary fits in the context here :P
See you
@AviD Thanks
@random and behold, already 3 answers
15:51
Hopefully the user will follow through the migration link and check out the awesome answers
tis a relatively big "hopefully" there
The real scandal with the xkcd question is that the best answer (the one from @AviD) is only the third by vote counts.
 
1 hour later…
17:14
@ThomasPornin @JeffAtwood will often win votes on SEI:-), I liked your and @AviD's answers so upvoted them both
@RoryAlsop Jeff also tends to gain large numbers of downvotes
18:22
I am so tired of websites that require free registration for access to content. What does my registration get them?
18:37
per user behavioural profiling
your email to send marketing stuff to
a way of stopping indiscriminate automated downloads?
I think you only need cookies for profiling
ah but users do horrible things like deleting them
I wonder how many people use their real e-mail address
or moving computer
I bet most users never delete their cookies or clear their cache
18:40
I agree, probably not, but they might move computer
partly I think it's not-invented-here syndrome... somebody somewhere along the way just felt the need to implement an authentication system
and thats the other question, why authenticate?
Why not just a username?
For the case where the content is free when you register, what are you protecting?
It depends. Is there more to the site than just content you can grab?
If not, I agree, it's kinda useless
they might be hoping you join the forum, update your profile etc
I wonder what the rates of joining the forum/participating on the site are.
19:03
evenin'
@RoryAlsop 'evening
happy localized time of day
good geographically determined solar phase state
is that your password?
19:22
<bad idea forming>
Which could be a password also, and it contains special characters
hahahaha
Well, my first thought having read through our question on that comic was: actors really ought to have the best passwords
after all, they remember whole lines from films/plays/productions all the time
passwordmeter.com gives it a score of 64%
19:53
Whereas it gives Tr0ub4dor&3 a score of... 100%
hahahaha
you guys want to see something funny? After our gig on Saturday the goNorth folks recorded one of our songs in their mobile recording studio:
I didn't know that they would use this one, so check out my slight pisstake of an end solo
03:00 - 20:0020:00 - 23:00

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