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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

6:11 PM
@RоryMcCune What would be more awkward: Your mom liking your post on /r/nsfw or your friends liking your mom's post on /r/nsfw?
 
@Iszi well for mom's post /r/gonewild/ would be the ultimate embarrassment for the teenage boy set on reddit I'd imagine... but /r/nsfw/ wouldn't be good either..
 
@RоryMcCune Were I myself more familiar with Reddit, I probably would have suggested that instead.
 
yeah just in case anyone's on who's not reddit savvy /r/gonewild/ is very NSFW
 
@RоryMcCune does the misses know you're visiting dirty sites? :o
 
@RоryMcCune Meh. I'm bored. Seems like a good time to test the proxy's content filter.
 
6:17 PM
@LucasKauffman ah ah I never said I'd been.. There's loads of bits of reddit that I know of and have never been to /r/spacedicks/ for one. I don't even know what that's going to be but enough people refer to it in other subreddits , I know not to go there :)
 
@RоryMcCune Kinda like I practically know nothing about Reddit, but I'm not even going to look to see if /r/goatse or /r/tubgirl/ or /r/2girls1cup actually exist.
 
@Iszi they probably do. reddit is kind of like rule34 , if you can think of it, someone's probably made a subreddit of it...
 
@RоryMcCune Why is it NSFW?
 
@RоryMcCune And then apply rule 34 to it: If you can think of it, someone's probably made a subreddit dedicated to porn of it.
 
@Adnan well in most people's works, pictures of scantily clad/unclad ladies and gents aren't considered appropriate :)
 
6:21 PM
Oh, okay, never mind. Now I know.
Jesus Christ!!!
 
can't say I didn't warn you :op
 
Why would any normal individual post nudes of themselves like that?!
 
@Adnan and DRINK
 
Do they get some money for it?
 
@RоryMcCune Am I missing out on a drinking game?
 
6:22 PM
Jesus!! Some of them even post their faces. Wow.
 
@Adnan Better their faces than their feces.
 
@Iszi It was noted that I have the highest count of "Jesus" and "Jesus Christ" in this chat. So, every time I say any of those two, you guys drink.
 
@Adnan Okay, that explains that but what explains this?
Mar 18 at 14:30, by AviD
DMZ - DRINK!!
 
@Iszi @AviD
 
@Iszi Who feels that they have to post nudes of themselves just so random strangers tell them "You look hawt honey"
@Iszi Exactly what I said.
 
6:25 PM
@Adnan People do that with non-nude pics too - never heard of HotOrNot?
 
@Adnan ahh I've seen it suggested that they're doing this as some of them are actually professionals and use the site to drive traffic to cam sites and the like...
 
@Iszi But don't nude pictures have a greater impact on reputation and, thus, employablity?
@RоryMcCune Oh, I see you're an expert on these matters.
 
Herm. It appears Ctrl + Alt + T isn't a windows shortcut for terminal :|
 
@Adnan Depending on the target industry, that may or may not necessarily be a negative impact.
 
@Adnan nah I just waste a lot of time on reddit and the /r/gonewild/ crowd are a popular topic of converation/ridicule...
 
6:28 PM
@DavidFreitag AFAIK there is none built-in.
 
@DavidFreitag There's no such thing
 
@Iszi I know. My brain was in lubuntu mode.
 
@DavidFreitag Create a shortcut for it :D
 
but i sat there mashing it a few times until i realized i was in windows
@Adnan That would just be much too sensible.
 
@Iszi It has been reported that Kim Basinger, in her early days of acting, posed for a series of Playboy photos precisely in order to boost her career -- and it worked.
Sean Connery (not yet Sir Sean Connery at that time) noticed her and gave her the lead role in Never say never again.
 
6:33 PM
@Adnan That was surprisingly a whole bunch easier than i thought it would be :O
 
password: Admin123@# .... sigh.
 
@tylerl very slightly better than password: password
 
@DavidFreitag I know, right?!
 
At IBM, the "default" password they set on everything (which you were supposed to change) was passw0rd!
 
@Adnan I may very well have shortcuts to just about everything by the end of the day...
 
6:38 PM
@DavidFreitag How did you do it? Did you create a .lnk for cmd.exe? Or did you just directly find the command prompt short cut from start menu?
I always hate creating .lnk because then I'd have to keep them somewhere
 
@Adnan No i already had it pinned to the taskbar. All you need to do then is right click the task bar, then right click the program that is to be opened. The taskbar is really just a folder with .ink's in it anyway. From there i set the shortcut in the ink and voila
 
@DavidFreitag Yup! :D
 
Way to do something almost completely intuitive MS.
 
When I discovered this I thought "Nice. Something that makes Windows suck a little less".
 
Oh great the Atmel AVR toolchain got updated. I bet that's going to break all kinds of stuff.
 
6:42 PM
@DavidFreitag However, it is an "open once". If you type Ctrl+Alt+T again, you don't obtain a new terminal ; but you get the focus back to that terminal.
 
@ThomasPornin Yeah, that's alright. I haven't found many instances in which i need more than one terminal open in windows anyhow
 
@DavidFreitag @ThomasPornin Replace cmd.exe with cmd.exe /c start cmd
Problem solved
 
Programs pinned to the taskbar are automatically assigned a hotkey [Win]+[1] etc. depending on the position
 
@DavidFreitag The same right click properties window
Ctrl+Alt+T = UNLIMITED CMD WINDOWS!!!
 
6:46 PM
Everything i use in windows has a gui. Really the only time i use the terminal is for git or ping
 
This reminds me of Windows XP when it got stuck somewhere
 
@DavidFreitag have you tried cmder? bliker.github.io/cmder
unix commands + tabbed command windows
 
@RоryMcCune Ooooooh that's pretty.
 
@RоryMcCune WHOOOOOA!
 
I've got it set-up so I can do ruby/rails dev in windows more easily. I really don't like cmd.exe in it's basic config.
 
6:49 PM
That is literally the best thing I saw today.
Sorry, @Kisunminttu
2
 
yeah even stuff like being able to re-size the command window by dragging it is v.handy
 
@RоryMcCune That might just make kernel development in Windows possible without Cygwin crying like a baby
 
@DavidFreitag I am using the terminal to run command-line tools, mostly the command-line C# or VB.NET compilers, and the crypto-related tools I write.
I am not allowed to install external software on that machine, but I am allowed to write code and compile it, which means that the sysadmins here have not really understood where the danger lies.
 
@ThomasPornin I pretty much use VS for any C# or VB.NET. Other than that the only command line tools i use are nasm, gcc, ld, etc in linux.
 
@ThomasPornin How do they prevent using external software?
 
6:55 PM
probably with the "or we fire you" technique
 
@Adnan Access privileges.
 
@DavidFreitag You'd make a great manager who gives presentations.
 
@Adnan They don't prevent, they forbid.
 
@ThomasPornin Oho! :D
 
Well running third party software is risky, you never know if you downloaded malware
 
6:56 PM
@Adnan There is a setting in the DC that allows certain users to install software. Basically on vista+ it pops up UAC asking for admin privs to install anything.
 
but you should know if you wrote malware
 
@DavidFreitag They gave me a Visual Studio, but it makes my eyes hurt. I really prefer the command-line.
 
@ThomasPornin Even in the dark theme?
 
@DavidFreitag Dude.. installing software with admin is COMPLETELY different from using external software.
 
I never got why applications have themes instead of using the theme supplied by windows
 
6:57 PM
@DavidFreitag @ThomasPornin I thought you guys use this faronics.com/en-uk/products/anti-executable
(I hated that software in my school days)
 
Heh, Chopin is certainly very different from Kalmah.
 
@DavidFreitag I cannot abide the way VS autocompletes things and spawns zillions of popup boxes just right above or under the line I am typing in, obscuring what I am looking at.
 
@DavidFreitag Bad analogy. Very bad.
 
@ThomasPornin Yeah that does get annoying. I just disable a lot of that.
@Adnan Not an analogy, that's what my playlist just did.
 
@Adnan Actually that's the trick. I am not allowed to install software. But I can use a USB stick, and nothing forbids me to run software from that USB stick.
 
6:58 PM
@DavidFreitag Good musical choices, then.
 
Which I use to run a portable installation of GVim.
 
Kalmah (Hollo) -> Chopin (Mazurkas, Op. 63: III)
 
Actually, that company (Faronics) makes a software called DeepFreeze. It's simply great!
GREAT!
With some configuration, you'll never be asked for IT help from your family members ever again.
 
@Adnan They use that at the college i go to. It's a pain in the nuts
 
@DavidFreitag I LOVE it
A virus destroyed your files and killed everything on your system? No problem, just reboot it.
A meteor hit your computer and now it's dead? No problem, just reboot it.
 
7:01 PM
@Adnan They have it set to reset everything to the settings they setup even the hard drive. That means that when the 10 minute inactivity timer goes off and you get logged out, anything you were working on is now completely gone.
 
> With some configuration, you'll never be asked for IT help from your family members ever again.
If it's deployed correctly, it's a great tool.
 
@Adnan Yeah i know. I was just saying that it's a pain in the balls at school.
 
what about system updates?
 
Indeed.
 
@Adnan Well, sure: if after your actions the machine is a sad mess of dead silicon, they won't ask you for help again.
 
7:02 PM
Especially when you are taking a test online. You need to wiggle the mouse otherwise you get fucked.
 
@CodesInChaos Can be controlled centrally for mass update deployments.
 
@Adnan Kinda like WSUS?
 
@Adnan I doubt it. They'll bump you with something new.
 
@AviD cyber FU!
 
@DavidFreitag It actually uses it (or it can use normal Windows Update). The difference here is that it disables its protection just for the updates.
 
7:05 PM
@Adnan WSUS does basically the same thing. It allows the DC to control what updates the clients get so automatic updates don't break anything.
I'm sure it can do more than that too, but that's what we use it to do
 
protected override bool Save(){
   if (isDirty){
        //Some code
        if (isVeryDirty){
            //Different code
            if (isVeryVeryDirty){
                 //More code
            }
        }
   }
}
sigh
Hacks hacks hacks hacks
 
7:23 PM
@Adnan Looks like the source code of @Adnan's mind
 
@CodesInChaos Oh damn it! I forgot to set the GitHub repo to private!
 
I'm trying to figure out on how I would generate SSL public and private keys on the fly, in such a way that the client can trust it. And also, I have no control over the server, and it's not even guaranteed that it will have any Internet connection. Exactly how that server is going generate SSL public and private keys, and have it be sent to the client and stored in its keychain as a trusted certificate, I have no clue.

Bear in mind that the server (as in the physical device) will have a screen on it that can display texts to the user. Maybe that can be a way to temporarily identify the se
 
@SalehenRahman Not enough information to help you, sorry.
@SalehenRahman My initial thought, however, is to get the client to trust you as a CA, and then you, as a CA (yaaay) can sign the keys public keys whenever you generate them. That way, you guarantee that the client will always trust them (and, more importantly, that they're actually trustworthy).
I assumed that you'll generate many keys while communicate with the client (I have no idea why you'd want to do that).
 
7:41 PM
No just one key for the server. But that server, when booted up for the first time will create a public and private key pair forever, at least that's what I had in mind.
The issue is, how to ensure that when the client connects with the server (and it will always do so wireless), that it can indeed verify that it's talking to the server?
 
@SalehenRahman Go back a bit, relax, and tell us what you're trying to do?
 
409
A: What is the XY problem?

GnomeWhat is it? The XY problem is asking about your attempted solution rather than your actual problem. That is, you are trying to solve problem X, and you think solution Y would work, but instead of asking about X when you run into trouble, you ask about Y. The Problem This can lead to frustrati...

 
@tylerl: I see where you're going at. Apologies. Will rephrase the question.
 
But the best solutions are those that simply need problems.
 
The easiest way to get to the real problem is usually asking Why five times. — Gordon ♦ Oct 21 '12 at 17:25
 
7:53 PM
I'm working on a hub for homes. It will most definitely be reading energy use data, but it can also turn lights on and off. That hub will be redistributed to many homes, and hence, why I believe that I, the developer, will never have any control over it (but I might be wrong about that).

That hub doesn't have that many inputs, other than ethernet, bluetooth, and USB, and a few buttons. Even though it has an ethernet port, it is not guaranteed that it will have Internet, and so I'm not ruling out that possibility. But regardless, a typical use case would be that a mobile device will be talk
I forgot to mention, the hub also has an 16x2 ASCII LCD screen on it. Maybe I can display some sort of a secret, similar to how two-factor authentication (TFA) works. But unlike TFA, nothing will be sent, but merely displayed.
 
8:32 PM
@SalehenRahman so... what's the concern, then?
 
8:44 PM
@SalehenRahman What's the mobile device? Is it just a smart phone with your hub-controlling application installed on it?
 
@SalehenRahman SSL trust is based on the hostname which you use to access the device. The chances of a consumer getting a signed cert for their own device is minimal (nonexistent), so you'll probably just have to live with self-signed certificates. You get a browser warning because teh identity of the destination can't be verified, but the connection is encrypted anyway
 
@Adnan: yes it's a smart phone with a hub-controlling application.
@tyler: since you put it that way, is there anything wrong with taking the server's public key and then adding it to the mobile device's keychain? I'm thinking on doing that after the first time the mobile device connects with the server. The first time the mobile device tries to connect, there might be a warning, and the user will simply have to say "I trust this source" only once, and it's now trusting the source forever.
 
@SalehenRahman When the user is setting up their device/hub, ask them to point their mobile's camera to the hub (showing the screen). On the screen you'll show the SHA-1 fingerprint of the key, and your application will easily OCR it. On the first connection, you verify the fingerprint of the key received vs. the one scanned from the LCD.
Simple!
 
@SalehenRahman if you control the client AND the server, then you can run your own PKI
You have a signing cert which you keep (the private key) private, but you ship the public key of your signing cert with your mobile app
each DEVICE ships with a cert signed by your CA cert
and your app trusts any keys signed by your CA cert
 
8:56 PM
@Adnan your prescience is notworthy
 
@tylerl Just like that postmaster@domain question?
anger face
 
@Adnan what about that question?
were you composing an answer when I posted mine?
 
@tylerl is that typo intentional? :D
 
@TildalWave Of course it is
 
@TildalWave LOL
just noticed it. noteiced it.
 
@Adnan ah. you got your list from rapidssl as well, then.
 
@tylerl @Adnan: Either the screen approach or the different keys per device approach. The former kills two birds with one stone: you uniquely identify the hub while authenticating it at the same time. The latter is much easier for the user; they just connect. Decisions, decisions.

Any thoughts on the former, before I flip a coin and decide?
 
@SalehenRahman No no no
If you can go with the PKI solution, then go with it. That's the best one
I suggested the screen thing because you didn't reply to my PKI suggestion. I assumed it doesn't apply to your case. However, now that you fully explained your situation, I can see that signed keys is the way to go.
The user doesn't even have to do anything.
 
@Adnan: sounds good to me.
@Adnan @tylerl: thanks a lot.
 
today my best ping time is 412ms!!!! wtf?
download speed 1.5Mb/s
upload speed appears to be 0.1Mb/s
 
9:11 PM
@RoryAlsop ISP?
 
talktalk
 
@RoryAlsop so is that cellular?
 
@tylerl nope - broadband
I pay for 8Mb
best so far was just over 3 one day
 
@RoryAlsop I would argue that point based on your numbers
 
RoryM gets better results from laying a piece of copper through a river
@tylerl agreed
 
9:13 PM
Pinging to whom? If you ping your gateway does it still crappy?
(last mile, or ISP as a whole) (hole)
 
@tylerl everything is exceptionally speedy until outside my house (I used to be a network engineer so have reasonable kit here) - talktalk are just pretty rubbish. And I have no alternative provider (the copper is owned by BT, who actually tell me I can't get the speeds that I occasionally get with talktalk)
frustration
 
@RoryAlsop by "gateway" i meant on the other side of your residential uplink
so... outside your house, at their office, but before the traffic goes anywhere intersting
 
yep
 
can you point a pringles can at work?
that was all the rage back in 2002
 
@tylerl it's 16 miles away over various hills unfortunately
on the upside - I like British Airways new feature
 
9:18 PM
@RoryAlsop huh?
 
If my other usual airlines do it it would be interesting to see if my time on civilian flights comes close to military flights
Think my total on RAF flights was just over 350k miles
 
@RoryAlsop I haven't the foggiest idea how many miles I've flown. Hours was the only metric that anyone ever cared about
 
bmi was around 20k, virgin atlantic about 18k so far, malaysian, brunei and qantas 20k each
@tylerl I never manage to track the hours as I'm either watching films or asleep now I'm not allowed up front any more
 
never manged to sleep on a plane
no matter how many days i've been awake
 
I sleep anywhere
bus, train, plane, boat
 
9:31 PM
You guys know of any new-ish series worth my time?
 
@TildalWave too broad - on hold
:-)
 
@RoryAlsop hehe OK fair enough, it's not like I know what I'd like to watch either :)
thought of taking the evening off and just chill in front of the telly
 
Have you watched Suits?
 
@SalehenRahman nope, don't even know what it is ... I'll check :)
lawyers?
 
@TildalWave yeah. It's pretty intense. Sounds stupid, but wait till you watch.
@TildalWave especially how things unfold in the first season.
 
9:38 PM
OK, I'll give it a go, the worst it can happen is I fall asleep on it, which is kinda what the plan is anyway :)
 
@TildalWave Haha.
 
@SalehenRahman SUits is excellent - it is very like the law firms I know
 
has pretty darn good score on IMDB for a 4 seasons and running imdb.com/title/tt1632701
OK cheers for the suggestion, it's available on VOD so... good night ;)
 
So anyways, about SSL/TLS: I need help with 1) setting up a root certificate, and 2) signing certificates based on the root certificate.

I would imagine generating and self-signing private and public keys for the root will be pretty identical to the one explained by the [Node.js TLS documentation](http://nodejs.org/api/tls.html#tls_tls_ssl).

But what about when it comes to signing *other* SSL certificates? What command do I run, then?

I'm sorry for the "email me the codez please!" type question, but I haven't worked with openssl much.
Wait... Before answering that...
Yep, never mind. There is an example here: github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/test/fixtures/keys/Makefile
 
@RoryAlsop Reaaaaaallly?! :|
 
9:47 PM
@Adnan actually, yes
very childishly aggressive/assertive
 
@Adnan you watched it or something, and then now wondering whether or not its any good?
 
@RoryAlsop Alright alright. To me, it looked a bit too unrealistic
@SalehenRahman I watched all of it, until Season 3 Episode 13
 
Customer: Hey, can you change our registrar too?
Me: Like, for you company's domain name?
Customer: Yeah, we are **done** with GoDaddy
Me: Um, Sure.
Customer: That guy kills elephants, man.
Me: Elephants?
Customer: Yeah, dude. It's some crazy shit man.
 
@tylerl is that a real convo that actually happened?
 
@SalehenRahman 15 seconds ago
 
10:02 PM
@tylerl could have been accidental or something. Like forgot to switch windows or something.
 
@SalehenRahman i post unusual work-related things here all the time
The plot thickens:
Customer: Yeah, one of the reasons we want to switch away from Godaddy is because if they get a subpoena they'll turn over your data
Me: Everyone will do that
Customer: Wait, everyone?
Me: Unless that want to go to jail for you. And you don't mean quite that much to them
Customer: Oh.... I'll call you back.
 
10:26 PM
@JeffFerland I love lots of things, but I have never learnt to love facebook.
 
@RoryAlsop indeed I do! My copper is still more or less in the river... but hey BT might fix it this month (only taken 3 months!)
 
I had an account once, it lasted like a month or so.
@tylerl xD
The elephant story killed me xD
 
11:08 PM
@RoryAlsop But what about if you're just a passenger?
 
Is it better to hash passwords on the server, or is it better to get a "verifier" from the client (e.g. via SRP)? And this is assuming that it will only ever be a android application talking to the server, and not a web app.
Better question: should I stick to the old hash(password) (assuming that function call auto-generates a salt) to store passwords, or should I move to SRP?
 
> I, for one, completely cyberagree with you. However, as a cybermod here on cyber.security.se, have to cyberpoint out that this isn't really a cyberquestion, and doesnt even really fit on cybermeta. That cybersaid, I can completely cyberfeel your cyberpain - I am cyberassuming this is the cyberresult of cyberstration from silly cyberreports. Then again, that is one of the ENTERPRISE RISKS from cyberworking at a BigCyber4... Consider this cyberflagged. – AviD♦
 
I read that on meta. Pretty funny. XD
 
@AviD surely that should be ... Consider this cyberflagged. – CyberAviD♦
 
11:24 PM
@RoryAlsop heh. well, the original comment I didnt write my cybername....
oo! we should all change our names to cyber-* !
 
@AviD that works for me :-)
 
@AviD Huh.
 
@AviD right - how long does this take to propagate
 
:-)
you could even shorten it and be CybAviD
 
11:27 PM
CyberDee
 
man - that sounds 1337!
 
You can force-propagate by refreshing your parent account.
 
:-)
 
@Cyber-FEichinger erm,.... how I do dat den?
 
@RoryAlsop Go to your profile, click the "[change]" link next to your parent account.
 
11:29 PM
Such cyber. Very mod. Wow.
 
@Cyber-FEichinger ah - profile in chat. Gotcha
wonder if this now works
 
maybe I'll need to wait for cache timeout
I'm not seeing it even though I have reloaded
 
(And now I can revert from chat experimenting again.)
@Cyber-Rory Yeh, the client instances take a while, but the server already uses the changed one.
(Case in point, reply link ping is already updated.)
 
hey Cyber@Lucas! Check out @Cyber-Rory! ;-)
 
11:33 PM
I now have it updated. Yours, however, changed to Cyber and back
 
shouldnt that be cyberory? @Lucas you should use that every place in your report. for real.
So, in Matrix, the bad guy's name was actually Cyber, it was mispronounced as Cypher.
 
@Cyber-Rory Hey, I only did that for chat SCIENCE!.
I don't have anything to do with this cybering business.
 
@FEichinger For the people who are still alive!
 
@FEichinger oo, whats a cyber ring?
 
11:50 PM
Bumping my question: I was thinking that SRP would be better for sending passwords to the server, but I was wondering what your thought might be.

I'm still using SSL, but SRP just adds one extra piece of protection.

Any thoughts?
 
In Russia, Cyberia has you
 
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