The DMZ

Rory Alsop

13:00

:-)

The Evil Phoenix

lol

btw, good morning

Rory Alsop

afternoon @thee

AviD

okay, now everybody silence in here! I'm away for the next hour, dont want to miss anything....

Rory Alsop

hahahaha - no cross posting @Avid

The Evil Phoenix

throws 500GB of illogical data at @Avid

M'vy

13:02

good <fill_in_the_blank> @TheEvilPhoenix

Rory Alsop

@TheEvilPhoenix thunk!

AviD

heh

everybody, looked what I just ~~sussed~~ learned!

M'vy

The Security.SE chat reminds you that use of illogical data is still strictly monitored. Please refrain any waste of such data.

2

AviD

on the other hand, if its truely and completely illogical, it could be a good source of random data.

The Evil Phoenix

@Mvy But illogical data that originally belonged to the government and has now been declassified is regulated and monitored by the laws of the Interwebs. As such, the data I threw at @Avid is allowed to be wasted and thrown :P

M'vy

13:06

@AviD illogical != random

The Evil Phoenix

@Mvy except when it comes from the government.

M'vy

hm... point taken @TheEvilPhoenix

(for the lulz)

The Evil Phoenix

:P

AviD

no, you mean "irrational != random". even in an irrational form of perverse logic, thats not illogical.

M'vy

hm

AviD

13:08

in the truly illogical, it would have to be random - otherwise, there is some form of (broken) logic.

The Evil Phoenix

wait, did we start this discussion because i threw that massive amount of illogical and random data at @Avid?

how the heck does THAT happen?

AviD

@Mvy see? ;)

M'vy

That's the problem with illogical things.

AviD

irrational, random, but not illogical.

The Evil Phoenix

depending on the perspective

what may be based on broken logic that appears logical to one, appears to be illogical to someone who is not using broken logic

M'vy

13:10

well guess we have a good question for English Language and Usage at least.

The Evil Phoenix

depending on what rules of logic they are using ;P

indeed

Rory Alsop

hahahahaha - my brain

AviD

thats exactly my point.

hmm... wait, I think I said it backwards....

The Evil Phoenix

:P

M'vy

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100515132635AAgWME2

Rory Alsop

13:12

meh - 500Gb - that'll be less than minimum RAM to run a computer next year (or so)

The Evil Phoenix

@RoryAlsop don't worry, there's another 500TB where that 500GB came from :P

Rory Alsop

hahahaha - from elsewhere: Q: How can I be more manly? A: Get out of the basement, neckbeard, and do some pushups

The Evil Phoenix

lolol

Rory Alsop

@TheEvilPhoenix :-)

AviD

hey! we said no crossposting!

Rory Alsop

13:15

good point (pretends to delete)

AviD

@Mvy nice answer there. but the examples he gave are backwards....

`1=2 is illogical.`
`Running around pantsless whilst screaming your head off is irrational`

M'vy

irrational refers to rationality -> it's a social thing. I guess

AviD

running around pantsless may very well be based on some form of logic.

The Evil Phoenix

@Avid but the logicality of any given situation or event is based off of what one considers logical

AviD

@TheEvilPhoenix exactly.

The Evil Phoenix

13:17

i.e. running around pantsless whilst screaming could be considered logical by some

AviD

thats what i said!

The Evil Phoenix

but by the logic of the current social universe, its illogical

AND irrational

Rory Alsop

@TheEvilPhoenix but fun, though

erm - sometimes

The Evil Phoenix

reminds himself to put @Rory on the "Poke with a sharp stick when within 1 meter" list

M'vy

rationality implies judgement. Logic implies rules.

AviD

13:19

@RoryAlsop wouldja look at that? the kiddies are getting uppity.

Rory Alsop

and everyone knows it is "pointed stick" - spoken with a Welsh accent

Self Defence Against Fresh Fruit

"Self-Defence Against Fresh Fruit" is a Monty Python sketch that appeared in the episode "Owl Stretching Time". It is about an RSM-type instructor who is teaching a class about self-defence, but all he teaches is how to defend oneself against an assailant "armed" with a piece of fresh fruit. The first half or so of the sketch was remade for the Pythons' first feature film, And Now for Something Completely Different. Plot The teacher (John Cleese) is about to start off his class, but he notices that everyone, save for four students, is absent. He starts off the class by carrying on fro...

The Evil Phoenix

@Mvy exactly! If we put aside the variances in people's judgement, then everything can be considered either logical or illogical based on the rules of the universe and social acceptability of situations (which is dictated by the general consensus, and is only partly influenced in the rationality of people)

AviD

@RoryAlsop need youtube link....

M'vy

Logic will depends the system you consider to be in also :D

Rory Alsop

►

The Evil Phoenix

13:22

@Mvy true, for example, what may be considered logical in the USA is illogical in some East Asian country, and vice versa, because of the variance between the regional rules of logical behavior, which again is dictated by the general consensus, and not completely influenced by rationality of people in said regions)

AviD

@RoryAlsop ta :)

The Evil Phoenix

wow, we actually had a pretty decent discussion on the definition of logicality...

:P

AviD

and got it all backwards ;)

The Evil Phoenix

or did we? whether the discussion is backwards or not depends on perspective :p

@AviD you keep bringing up arguable thoughts...

thoughts of which i will respond to because i have nothing better to do while Microsoft Dynamics CRM is broken :/

AviD

no experience at all with dynamics....

Rory Alsop

13:27

@TheEvilPhoenix best reason for debate on logical though ever!

The Evil Phoenix

yeah i know whats wrong, though :P

@RoryAlsop INDEED!

@RoryAlsop i'm a linux guy, but this system is being used for a project i'm assigned to at work... and the reporting features are broken and have been for several days

so i cant continue on the project until its been fixed

by the server farm people >.>

Rory Alsop

not good

The Evil Phoenix

indeed

oh, that and i woke up exceptionally tired today... so i'm probably going to need to make about 8 espresso runs during the day

which means about $20 out of pocket again

Rory Alsop

one can of red bull plus one pro plus tablet - you'll be sorted :-)

The Evil Phoenix

lol

i cant drink red bull

it irritates my stomach

strangely enough, espresso doesnt (maybe because i dont drink it straight up?)

M'vy

13:33

$20 for 8 coffees?? 2.5 /coffee?

Rory Alsop

I get that these days too - which is a pity as I like red bull and don't like the taste of espresso

cheaper coffees than we get here!

M'vy

It makes 1.75969592 Euros / coffee. Where do you buy them? Coffee bar?

The Evil Phoenix

@Mvy espresso != coffee

M'vy

oh

ok so maybe it's worth it then :D

The Evil Phoenix

@Mvy a single shot of espresso has as much caffeine as up to 2.5 cups of coffee

and a shot of espresso is far less liquid than an entire cup of coffee

Rory Alsop

13:36

here a coffee is about £3 for a normal Caffe Nero/Starbucks thing

The Evil Phoenix

subsequently, turn that into a drink with flavoring and some dairy substance in it, you mask the extreme bitterness of the espresso, and can intake several shots at once.

i usually buy triple espresso drinks (milk-based drink, plus flavor, plus an extra shot of espresso as it comes with two) at Starbucks (each is about $4.50)

Rory Alsop

yeah - after getting very addicted to caffeine in Munich I weaned myself off it...then discovered Vanilla Lattes

The Evil Phoenix

having said that, make about 5 trips during the day

and there's the $20 :P

Rory Alsop

The Vanilla covers all sins, and you get 3 espresso shots

:-)

M'vy

Well, reminds me one thing: mug.isEmpty() == true

The Evil Phoenix

13:38

lol

M'vy

And since I did not bought that IV set, I guess I'll have to make me another cup :P

The Evil Phoenix

mug.isEmpty() == true;
if mug.owner.requiresCaffeine() == true; then
{ mug.owner.goTo(locations.coffeeShop(); mug.owner.buyCoffee(); }
endif
if mug.isEmpty() == false; then
  quit;
else
  getCoffee();
endif

Rory Alsop

but your second line is redundant and always parses to true

The Evil Phoenix

indeed

Rory Alsop

|:-)

The Evil Phoenix

13:42

which explains the $40 i've spent on coffee in the past 3 days :P

AviD

first line would raise a compiler error..

Method is treated as a field

oh, there are 2 ==

M'vy

Parse error: missing ) at line 3.

AviD

so.... thats redundant?

The Evil Phoenix

lol

M'vy

well I went to my boss' office and guess what

he has expresso capsules /w caffeine

O_o

Rory Alsop

13:43

you found him performing a quirkafleeg?

hey - I got a Tumbleweed badge on meta.so

:-/

M'vy

lol no, he's away :P

Grats @RoryAlsop :P

Rory Alsop

0

Q: Drag and drop sort of accounts, and sort by column in Accounts Tab

Similar to this question on sorting by Reputation on the Accounts tab, I would really like to have the following functionality: Sort by column - to allow sorting by alphabetical name of site or by questions etc in addition to the standard sort by rep Drag and drop sorting - so I could move my m...

M'vy

I have it too

Rory Alsop

it's my first

so I'm all proud

M'vy

0

Q: Chat time conversion suggestion

Another suggestion : I found that in some specific cases like on the Stackexchange Live Podcast room, it would be useful to detect event like "xxx happens at 11:00pm EDT" and display a tooltip to convert it to the user timezone value. I think that some kind of conversion like this is already ...

feature-request chat timezone

I guess it was that question

or the link in chat topic renaming maybe

I should try to run for a gold one on meta

Rory Alsop

13:48

@Mvy 'grats too

M'vy

XD

And still don't have deputy on security :D

The Evil Phoenix

to make all you program happy people happy, here's that aforementioned coffee function better:

pastebin.com/d5y7hH5V

M'vy

Oh: LOLCaptcha -> pastebin.com/signup

The Evil Phoenix

:P

M'vy

I was nearly expecting the captcha to be in the source code...

The Evil Phoenix

13:54

:P

(btw, having pro pastebin.com access is epic :P)

M'vy

Really?

The Evil Phoenix

at least for me...

M'vy

(oh and don't forget the bonus point to make the operator thing he is a machine during a turing test. [XKCD])

The Evil Phoenix

the amount of text I can post is about 5 times more than a standared user

M'vy

Hm. I rarely use pastebin

The Evil Phoenix

13:56

uses it often

in IRC support, they like to see code.

pastebin ftw in that case

M'vy

yep

Rory Alsop

don't think I have ever used it - usually have a full environment in those instances I need to share code

The Evil Phoenix

:P

i dont usually trust IRCers :P

a few, i trust explicitly, but they EARNED that trust :P

M'vy

^^

Do you run zero knowledge protocol based on SO profiles?

AviD

in Ask Ubuntu General Room, yesterday, by Marco Ceppi

Next person to fly off the handle when Windows is mentioned in chat will get kicked

The Evil Phoenix

14:00

@AviD true story, every time someone mentions using windows over there, I'm usually like "BLASPHEMER! BURN THEM! BURN THEM WITH FIRE!!!"

:p

M'vy

well I really need to go back to linux...

trully

The Evil Phoenix

SO THOU MUST RETURN TO IT

TODAY

M'vy

Well working environment requires windows...

don't want to end up configuring many things for 2 months

The Evil Phoenix

as does mine

AviD

Next person to fly off the handle when Windows is mentioned in chat will get kicked.

The Evil Phoenix

14:03

i keep my linux laptop around though

copycat

you must be burninated for being nothing more than a copycat

BURNINATED i say

M'vy

Well I could really use that awesome window manager.

The Evil Phoenix

and whoever stole my PDA is going to be burninated

M'vy

Default one on win is awfull.

The Evil Phoenix

</srs statement>

AviD

yay! my car is back....

laters

Rory Alsop

14:08

@AviD tell it not to go off wandering again! Naughty cat!

oh - car...

:-)

The Evil Phoenix

lol

M'vy

The @ThomasPornin's quote of the day: "So the apples are CPU and the oranges are RAM"

I love that... especially when it is context-less

The Evil Phoenix

lol

@Mvy where do you find these things?

M'vy

1

A: Is 1024bit Diffie Hellman key exchange secure?

Comparing key strength between symmetric encryption and asymmetric key exchange is like comparing apples with oranges: it is doable (they are both tasty fruits) but tricky and full of subtle details. To break DH, the best known method is trying to solve the discrete logarithm problem, for which t...

The Evil Phoenix

"Cryptography's public beta will begin soon"

why's it being held up, i wonder.

M'vy

14:14

wait what?

oh

The Evil Phoenix

their area51 proposal says it'll start soon, but no date

yesterday it said it'd be in 24 hours

Thomas Pornin

@TheEvilPhoenix There has been a post on meta.crypto which states that the private beta has been "extended" because there is no enough content (apparently, "quality" is satisfying, but not "quantity" yet). No figures given. No delay either. "Soon" is the most precise information to have appeared yet.

The Evil Phoenix

i see

note i cant see these things as i am not in the private beta :P

i'm actually arguing against a proposal though

someone has a proposal up on area51 for "Privacy"

but a good portion of the example questions fall within security.se's purview

M'vy

indeed

The Evil Phoenix

i just posted on the comment about this:

0

A: The Difference Between Privacy and Security

I believe that given the percentage of example questions that tie into IT security, this site's proposal is already covered by ITSecurity (security.stackexchange.com). There is too much overlap from the example/sample questions between this proposal and security.stackexchange.com to consider thi...

if you agree with my arguments, please upvote.

or comment :P

M'vy

14:24

Reading

Rory Alsop

@Mvy Basingstoke

M'vy

?

The Evil Phoenix

@RoryAlsop makes you wonder whether i knwo what i'm talking about with on-topic vs. off-topic stuff, huh? :P

my response to that discussion :p

M'vy

Oh BTW still no news about wallpaper?

Scott Pack

Wow, I go off to do, you know, work, and I come back to a few hundred messages.

wtf

The Evil Phoenix

14:38

@ScottPack lol

Rory Alsop

@Mvy maps.google.com/…

@ScottPack I know - whose idea was this whole "make the site more popular nonsense" :-)

M'vy

oh...

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop No kidding.

Rory Alsop

@Mvy no, but theme should be applied to our blog today, apparently

M'vy

ohoh!!!

good news

Scott Pack

14:40

@RoryAlsop You going to schedule that QotW post for Friday or what?

Rory Alsop

yarr - gimme 2 mins

Thomas Pornin

Oh my, colleagues have discovered Google+ hangout

I must say that the video and sound are much smoother than with Skype

Scott Pack

yeash

Thomas Pornin

The moving pictures with sound fascinate my cat

Rory Alsop

I still don't understand hangouts - either what they are or how to access them

Thomas Pornin

14:42

it looks like a video conversation, except with more than two people

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack scheduled 12:00 BST Friday 22nd

Thomas Pornin

businessly speaking, it should be interesting for meetings

since we now have people on four sites and three continents

Scott Pack

And once you create them they pretty much live perpetually

@RoryAlsop So that's, what, 8am canonical time?

The Evil Phoenix

btw, i'd like other people to chime in on this from our site:

2

A: The Difference Between Privacy and Security

I believe that given the percentage of example questions that tie into IT security, this site's proposal is already covered by ITSecurity (security.stackexchange.com). There is too much overlap from the example/sample questions between this proposal and security.stackexchange.com to consider thi...

because of the major overlap, to get it closed, users from our site need to comment about that proposal

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack but how do you make one? or see one?

Scott Pack

14:45

@RoryAlsop I think @Thomas is our resident expert on hangouts

That being said....

lifehacker.com/5822862/…

One-Box has failed me again!

Thomas Pornin

@ScottPack I discovered their existence 10 minutes ago

In French it is called a "bulle" (French word for "bubble")

M'vy

What?

Scott Pack

So, it looks like, on the main page there's a green button on the right that says, "Start Hangout"

M'vy

Hangouts is translated to "bulle"?

Scott Pack

@Mvy You know how those Frenchmen are...

M'vy

14:47

Yes I know that very well in fact :P

Scott Pack

:)

M'vy

But I'm glad I stick with english for all IT things...

Thomas Pornin

@Mvy yep: "rejoindre cette bulle"

M'vy

I'll copycat @ScottPack a bit: my country has failed me again ...

Scott Pack

Here, let's try this as a test. I'll add my security.SE circle to a hangout

Granted, I don't have a camera or mic on this system

M'vy

14:50

missing plugin

I disabled my mic too

Scott Pack

And that's only @RoryAlsop, @nealmcb, and @Mvy

M'vy

cause of working space :P

Let me take care of plugin :P

nealmcb

@AviD Thanks for the link. The big cafeteria at the University of Colorado (walking distance from here) is named the Alferd Packer Restaurant and Grill | University Memorial Center | University of Colorado at Boulder Pretty good food too! The students roundly rejected a proposal to replace it with something run by McDonalds as I recall....

Rory Alsop

I don't have anything on this system - it being a limited client box

Scott Pack

@Mvy I had to do that too.

M'vy

14:52

Well I don't have a security.se circle. But stackexchange one.

Rory Alsop

so you can't hangout on a mobile?

M'vy

hum huddle?

I'm in :P

Scott Pack

Hello!

Rory Alsop

is huddle hangout

M'vy

Not sure @RoryAlsop

Scott Pack

14:54

Ok, so that "somebody joined" sound just about gave me a heart attack.

Rory Alsop

@nealmcb afternoon

M'vy

XD XD

Rory Alsop

no huddle is IM

M'vy

Javascript all over the place...

and my browser restarts tab each time I allow one.... wtf

Seems we can watch youtube from the hangout

Why am I tempted to type in : Rick Astley?

Not sure it gets shared BTW

The Evil Phoenix

lol

M'vy

15:02

Ok back to music

Back to writing too

Thomas Pornin

There is a security.SE hangout now ?

M'vy

Well we are two. But no microphones so...

Just a test :P

Rory Alsop

it looks like my android phone wont do it

M'vy

Hum

let me try

Thomas Pornin

can't try it right now, since I am already hangouting with my colleagues

Rory Alsop

15:03

and it doesn't notify, i had to go and search for scott

in circles

maybe i'll try it at home on a proper computer

M'vy

It's in the stream

Scott Pack

It should have shared with you, @RoryAlsop

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack is Stream push or pull?

maybe mobile app is pull only

M'vy

15:31

Argh I can't do a mklink into a virtual disk!!!

wtf!

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop Probably a pull, I dunno. Every now and then it refreshes on my screen.

M'vy

16:02

I love StackExchange

TeX - LaTeX just solved my issue in less than an hour :P

this.josh

16:43

Hello.

Scott Pack

G'day

this.josh

looks like everyone is in a chatty mood

Scott Pack

shh

this.josh

17:43

Wow SpaceSniffer is beautiful!

uderzo.it/main_products/space_sniffer/index.html

Ormis

18:08

ever use windirstat or spacemonger? they seem very similar

The Evil Phoenix

hello.

Rory Alsop

@Ormis I'm a windirstat person

@TheEvilPhoenix hello (I am not a hacker :-)

The Evil Phoenix

@RoryAlsop Greetings! :P

Rory Alsop

I'm actually going to have to follow one of the productivity rules and spend an hour or so working, otherwise I'll be stuck on stackexchange all evening:-)

so - seeya later

this.josh

No, but they do look similar SpaceSniffer just seems to have a calmer presentation

I am a liar.

Ormis

18:21

how so?

this.josh

In reference to "I am nota hacker." An old logic problem.

Am I lying when I say I am a liar or am I telling the truth?

Ormis

haha, i didn't even pay attention to that

.. i got it, haha

i just read this question and i really don't want to answer it because i'll be typing for the rest of the day..... security.stackexchange.com/questions/5502/…

this.josh

I think there are several Phd theses written on that question

Ormis

ya, did any of you write one?

haha

this.josh

No, but I could if I tried to answer the question

Ormis

18:30

i have this love-hate relationship with rogue access-point mitigation technologies

me: has anyone been having issues with their wireless
my manager: Yea, is that you?

this.josh

I like wires.

extreme wireless risk mitigation: copper

Ormis

haha, yep

i really do love wireless.... the hate part of the relationship only rears it's head when our asset management system doesnt catalog my manager's wireless mac addresses properly :-P

this.josh

So spoof a good MAC address

Ormis

haha, that would cause SOO many more alerts

it's not a big deal to fix, it's just that i should have to manually allow their PCs.... it it was just my manager, i wouldn't care.... but it's not

anywho....

how has your day been?

this.josh

18:57

Eh, breathing, some synapses firing, waring with the Sweeds

oww a Steve Gibson question

0

Q: Steve Gibson claims that viruses can attack a video card and infect it. Is this true?

Steve Gibson of Security Now fame claims that viruses can attack a video card and infect it. I assume that he means it can infect the Video BIOS. However I'm skeptical. BIOSes are so numerous and different, what are the chances of someone writing a virus to infect the Video BIOS? Any clues?

virus bios

Iszi

Hehehe... The alt-text on this one is so true...

And g'mornin' all.

this.josh

Happy low azimuth temporal sample

Ormis

haha @Iszi

Stack Exchange

Stack Overflow Blog: SE Podcast #12

Posted by Alex Miller on July 20th, 2011

This week, Jeff and Joel are joined by Patrick McKenzie – StackOverflow contributor, internet commentator and SEO expert (especially when it comes to driving traffic for bingo cards). After a few early tech issues (don’t worry, we cleaned up for everyone at home) we jump right into things, with tons of discussion, including:

The big news for Stack Exchange this week: we officially launched our new mobile support!

We also recently introduced in-line editing so you don’t have to go to a separate page to edit an answer or question – we really want to encourage editing and have people help make questions better. …

The Evil Phoenix

19:20

@StackExchange </generic random message from StackExchange>

this.josh

I think the chat room is subscribed to the blog

The Evil Phoenix

hmm

fixable?

Scott Pack

It is presumably removable, presuming that there is found to be no benefit.

nealmcb

@TheEvilPhoenix I appreciate the automatic chats about blog entries (ours and the SE blog) - typically relevant to folks involved enough to hang out in chat

this.josh

19:40

@nealmcb Did that code spelunking help with the ssh-keygen question?

nealmcb

@thisjosh It was helpful and led to some relevant documentation in the openssl world that would seem to confirm that there is no iteration, which makes my jaw drap. At this point I'm still trying to figure out of that is still true for newly generated keys, and find cracking software to make it easier for folks to recognize the danger.

this.josh

It looked true, default itteration count is 1

nealmcb

I don't know why there is no one jumping up and down and getting that fixed.

/me prepares to jump up and down

this.josh

You can allways tell the IRCers by the spurious /me actions

nealmcb

not spurious - intended as a give-away :)

this.josh

19:46

Like free t-shirts?

nealmcb

SE chat really needs a UI for entering that sort of "emote" response

@thisjosh ?

this.josh

give-aways

nealmcb

for what?

/me now comes full circle

this.josh

My neural net has a non-linear bias toward odd connections

nealmcb

/me dons an SSH-themed t-shirt to cover all bases

Thomas Pornin

19:51

@nealmcb On that matter, my own private SSH key lies on a file without any passphrase protection.

this.josh

You mean this one?

actually this one is better

nealmcb

@thisjosh That's it!

@ThomasPornin <shudder>

ssh-agent is so easy to use....

Thomas Pornin

I am using physical security, which is even easier since I will get it anyway (so it has cost zero).

Namely, my PC lies in my office room which is in my home.

Only trusted people, and my cat, can access this room.

nealmcb

And that is true for all backups ever made of it?

Transcript for