« first day (210 days earlier)      last day (4968 days later) » 
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

yes sir o\
@RebeccaChernoff in your opinion then, would the question that @HendrikBrummermann specified here be worthy of migration, assuming a path existed?
because that determines whether i submit this flag or not
in theory, it could be at either location
whether security.se, or superuser
seems valid to me, sure
well then i'm about to get my first badge for flagging a post :P
oop i lied
third badge
:P
Afternoon gents. And @Rebecca.
17:04
i wonder how fast i can get to 500 flag weight... :p
@TheEvilPhoenix It takes a while.
@ScottPack you should have seen how fast i got 500 flag weight at AU
You start out at 100 (ish) and add 10 for each "correct" flag
in about 3 weeks i hit 500 :P
@ScottPack i'm aware, I have 570+ atm on AU
;)
Well sure, got up to 616 pretty dang quick on SF, but there was a shitload of chafe.
17:07
:P
well i've got a pretty good eye for moderation-required posts ;)
i mainly target not-an-answers and those posts which relate to absolutely nothing worthwhile
(and also i flag things which should be community wiki'd)
Yeah, that was primarily what I was going. Going through the backlog for NAAs and spam.
and then Marco Ceppi (another mod on AskUbuntu) pointed me to /review...
which caused the number of flags I issued to triple xD
oop, i found /review here
bookmarks
A few of us had put together a good list of searches that were pretty useful. Let me find those...
okay, seriously?
that's just sad...
i got one of those "Please give us your information and we'll wire-transfer you several million dollars" phishing messages via email
too bad for them i'm already aware of those scams
actually that reminds me...
@TheEvilPhoenix Is this surprising ? I have been getting several per day for the last ten years.
17:15
@ThomasPornin its on a University email
so yes its surprising
(what's not surprising is that it was erased as soon as i got it xD)
Things are busy in here.
@TheEvilPhoenix It must depend on the university. I got my own university email closed because I was receiving too much spam and no signal on it.
I haven't gotten anything like that in my email box for a few years, but we usually have 4-5, forwarded by our users, in the abuse folder.
@Thomas you didn't design a Baysean decision filter for your e-mail?
17:19
@thisjosh Right now I am just using the static rules of spamassassin and it works reasonably well (95% of spam is filtered). I still keep the last 3 weeks worth of spam, in case I get word of an unduly filtered legitimate email.
Ah, it was MSO, not MSF
67
Q: Easy ways to find answers that should be comments, for flagging purposes

ire_and_cursesI've been experimenting with the flagging system for the last couple of days, and have learnt a few strategies. But I feel that I'm making little difference to the mountain of accumulated rubbish. Having within a few minutes easily run out of my 48 flags tonight, so now helpless for another 19 h...

But by spending hundreds of hours you might be able to move from 95% to 97%! Damn, why do I have to be so unconvincing...
if i've got a question about a posible exploit scan on my server(s), what should I tag it with?
there is no exploit-scan tag
0
Q: Server Logs showing numerous 404s for phpmyadmin items - are these exploit scanners?

The Evil PhoenixThis seems to be a fairly easy question to figure out, but I wanted to make sure. I've got about a thousand entires on one of my web servers with phpmyadmin in the connection criterion, but as I dont have phpmyadmin installed, it 404s. They originate from several former-Soviet-bloc countries, w...

17:37
@thisjosh Time wasting is the point. I want my filters to be such that I do not ever need to have a look at the spambox. This implies that the filters must not be too restrictive, and I find the Bayesian thing a bit worrying because its behaviour changes over time.
Everything changes over time, except some mathematical constants...
@TheEvilPhoenix I think your tags are good enough. There is one more I might add, but I'll have to let it stew a bit before I decide if it really actually fits, or just kind of looks like it might.
@ScottPack which one? And also, i have returned to the evil Windows environment I am forced to work with >.>
17:52
I was thinking maybe , however looking at the questions in that tag it's not quite right. Another option could be though I don't much care for it either.
@Mvy Is that visible or invisible watermarking or a combination?
i think that we may need to eventually consider an exploit-scanners tag or something
considering that someone may tag something as a vulnerability-scanner or a network-stanner
whereas its actually an exploit scanner
unless we can redefine the tag wiki description for either
We rather ran into that problem early on in the public beta with the .
imo, exploit-scanners are really vulnerability-scanners with malicious intent
we could amend the tag wiki to include a description under vulnerability-scanners which makes a note that it can include exploit-scanners
if not set up a tag synonym in future for it
They also tend to be differently targeted, but part of the reason I'm waffling.
17:54
@ThomasPornin So not at the equal error rate. You are trying for no false positives. Interesting thought...
But again, depends on the situation :)
The naming, and how they're used, is important for SEO reasons.
@thisjosh Take out the space between the ':' and the text.
You should ask @AviD about . He likely has a lot to say about it :)
@ScottPack can you do me a favor? Windows is fubarish with my user page, but can you tell me what badges i have? the system says I have seven, and last i looked before turning off my other system, i had 3.
5 bronze: Supporter, Citizen Patrol, Autobiographer, Student, and Talkative
17:59
then why does it say i have seven?
Could be a bug.
ah that explains it
a glitch in the evil that is windows...
and now you all know why Windows should burn (in my opinion)
and can someone possibly downvote this please, its more unconstructive than useful:
0
A: Server Logs showing numerous 404s for phpmyadmin items - are these exploit scanners?

Woot4MooWell first and foremost, it appears that they would be from Soviet bloc countries. Second it could be an exploit scanner, but if you don't have the software what does it matter? You would want to whitelist MAC + IP addresses (where static) that are involved with your network operations. How fa...

(I dont have the rep to downvote)
you can disregard
The question is a duplicate.
@HendrikBrummermann It seemed like something we might have seen before. Do you have a link to the dup?
3
Q: IIS logs show someone is trying to hack my site, what should I do?

Louis SomersIt looks like someone is trying to hack my site. The following comes from my IIS log files: #Software: Microsoft Internet Information Services 7.5 #Version: 1.0 #Date: 2011-07-03 00:02:39 #Fields: date time s-sitename cs-method cs-uri-stem cs-uri-query s-port cs-username c-ip cs(User-Agent) sc-s...

18:08
they're two distinctively separate approaches however
whereas the one you linked is asking whether to go to police
mine addresses a requst for preventative measures
as well, the architecture of the systems is different
Urks, StackExchange is faking comments.
@HendrikBrummermann and FURTHER...
the question you're linking us to points at a single hacker/source
i'm getting hits on my server from at least 50 different IPs, originating from more than one source and country
@TheEvilPhoenix I see the difference being the underlying architectures, more than that.
18:11
@TheEvilPhoenix your time window is just larger.
The response procedure would be different for Linux than Windows.
@ScottPack given the different architectures, as well as the given natures of each question, i don't see the relevancy of the "exact duplicate" flag
assuming i understand the nature of that flag
it should only be used when the exact same procedure or general situation is involved
in this case, the architectures vary greatly
as such, different procedures must be done
thus, the "exact duplicate" flag or "possible duplicate" comment are irrelevant
because the exact same information is not covered in both posts
two different architectures. two different circumstances. two different response procedures
and two fundamentally different questions, even. where the IIS one references the general question of "What should I do", mine is "What can I do to specifically prevent this in the future?". Preventative procedures/tips questions are != the more general "What should I do" questions.
18:30
wow... now that i look back on that minirant, if i werent an IT guy, i would make a very good debater... o.o
Not enough spittle and too much direct confrontation of the issue.
:P
i might've made a good lawyer...
then again...
my father was a lawyer...
so...
:P
I repeat my earlier statement :)
and given that i've argued for and against certain flags that I may or may not have issued on questions from AskUbuntu... my arguments tend to be extremely energetic and direct ;)
but now i understand why the debate team wanted me to join them when i was in high school :P
@ScottPack in your answer, you propose using the iptables module state to monitor the connections to limit
can i use the conntrack module which is existent in my system rather than the state module?
Quite possibly.
So are you saying that you don't have the state module, or that you don't want to use it?
18:41
the state module isnt loaded. it exists, but isnt loaded, because conntrack is loaded instead of it
and if it is loaded
i'm not using it
because it may or may not conflict with the conntrack module which is already filtering NEW,ESTABLISHED connections to ACCEPT after the lo protocol
i could test in teh VM image I have of the same server though
Should still work. You would have to swap out --state for --cstate and maybe put in a -m conntrack
ok
and of course if that doesnt work i should be able to use state
but i prefer to be consistent with what connection state tracker/modules i use ;)
Probably have to move it up above your default accept on EST states.
i'll stick it into its own table, then throw the destination table into the INPUT table before the default accept on the states
that way i can just manage the one table than end up with a thousand INPUT entries
;)
19:00
@ScottPack can I ask your opinion on something?
about system security (non-server)
regarding SSH on any given system. Is it safe to allow both password and ssh-key authentication, or would I be better off with just ssh-key authentication?
assuming there are filtering rules to only allow certain sources of the connection in the firewall rules, and assuming i'm using one of those allowed hosts
19:22
Should we migrate this? Or, wait for improvement?
0
Q: should I source control my ssh [public/private] key?

Vaibhav BajpaiI am in the process of putting my ~/.ssh/config in my dotfiles/ssh/config. This makes me wonder should I also move my ~/.ssh/id_dsa and ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub to dotfiles/ssh/... as well? PS: offcourse it's a private repository.

@Iszi migrate to where?
if it is going to be migrated, the destination needs to be identified
as well as the reason
@TheEvilPhoenix - Contextually, the implied meaning in this room would be to migrate it to ITSec.
And the reason would be the same as for any migration - it's more on-topic at the target site.
ah i dint realize the source was su
@Iszi in my opinion, i think the q needs improvement
as suggested by the comment in the question
prior to migration
but i'm just a user not a mod :P
Something to keep an eye on, then.
@Iszi definitely.
19:30
Greetz, @Greg
hi there
if they reword the question to pertain to whether it would be more secure or not, then we can request its migration
in its current state, its not worthy of being anywhere, really
has anyone dealt with the WPS on some modern routers? was just wondering what it entailed, and how it can be secure.
@Greg WPS = Wi-Fi Protected Setup?
@Iszi yeah, apparently it allows new devices to connect to the router without the hassle of entering the encryption key (oh what a hassle)
19:32
It's that one-button push thingy to get new devices onto your secured Wi-Fi network, right?
or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
@Greg ideally you'd have the router somewhere secure
so random users cant use the WPS
This would be the right place to ask.
@TheEvilPhoenix Definitely.
in order for it to succeed, you need to press the router's button AND the device's button
then wait for the pairing
ah, so WPS has to be initiated on the router?
19:34
(depending on the device/router)
@Greg Generally, yes.
it has to be physically initiated at either side
usually by a button or through the admin panel for the router
ahh ok that's fine then, I missed the physical side of it
Also, the device joining has to have UPnP
indeed
@Greg its not an automatically-started process
it has to be started at both ends
then its automatic
19:35
yeah I get it now
But it's still trivial to initiate with physical access to the router.
so if I have device A and a router, i have to initiate it at both Device A and the router
@Iszi hence the comment of having the router in a secure location
i.e. a secured room of which only a few people have access to or something
@TheEvilPhoenix Just making sure @Greg caught that.
@Iszi indeed
@Greg this is why it works: because it doesnt automatically activate when you hit the WPS button at one end
For home users, the physical access thing isn't a big deal - you're generally more worried about securing your neighbors from piggybacking than anything else, and they won't usually have unsupervised physical access to the inside of your house.
Businesses on the other hand, have a totally different profile.
19:37
indeed
at a business level, its an issue, but at residential/home levels, its not a big deal
Still, paranoid dial to 11, I disable it on my routers whenever possible.
I'm not sure it'd work for me anyway - I do MAC filtering as well.
i disable it as well at my routers
and enable it when i want to use it
and then subsequently disable it afterwards
:p
@TheEvilPhoenix Sorry, just checked in again. A lot of recommendations now-a-days are to disallow password auth and only use keys. I would say it depends on your use-case and environment.
I'm sounding more and more like a lawyer. "It Depends"
@ScottPack no problem. Assume its my development system. This system sits at one location behind a NAT'd router. This system has access to all my servers via SSH keys with a bitstrength of 4096. These keys are subsequently secured with very secure passcodes, and thsoe keys do not share passcodes.
should i allow password auth so i dont need to carry a USB stick with my keys on it?
or should i just keep my keys with me
How restricted is ssh access to the system? Wide open to the world, locked down to a small set of addresses, etc?
19:49
only one user account: mine
that user account has sudo access
unfiltered, facing the entire world on a non-standard port (not 22 or 2222, which are common SSH ports)
system is behind a NAT'd router, but forwarding of the ports allows the SSH port to be world-facing
every other port is secured to inside the NAT'd network (LAN)
20:02
I hand program my ethernet MAC address into my router using a 3.3V button battery and a paperclip :P
@thisjosh You got a paperclip?!?? Why in my day we had a toggle switch and had to enter the MAC addresses in bit by bit.
I had to liberate it from a TPS report.
Kids today....
I suppose I could have used a #2 pencil and some paper to make a flex cable...
I program my MAC addresses in with emacs. ;-)
20:10
I don't have enough fingers to use emacs.
@ScottPack Personally I use a soldering iron
You cannot get wrong with a soldering iron
@ThomasPornin The soldering iron is a great method, don't get me wrong. I just find making changes a little more tricksome. Use of sponges and all that.
"Never trust a programmer with a screwdriver.''
3
@thisjosh I'm not sure I'd leave that statement to just programmers.
Never trust anyone with a screwdriver, unless the screwdriver has been authenticated and the holder is you...
20:20
@thisjosh I'm not sure I'd even trust that.
(evil grin)
You're my type of paranoid!
Awww. It looks like ARISS is dying with the shuttle program.
Last chance to apply for Amateur Radio on ISS contact opportunity, July 15 deadline: http://t.co/6gispKC #education #ISS @NASA
Sad, but I believe the Eurpoean Space Agency is still launching many cubesats
20:57
Jeez - I go to have dinner, cut the hedge and create a new path through the woods and I come back to a million lines of chat#
@thisjosh screwdrivers can kill computers...true story
@RoryAlsop I know, it's getting CRAZY
@Rory Yours or mine?
have updated the faq as per @thisjosh and other previous comments - care to take a look and see if I should tweak anything else
@thisjosh it was mine - a computer that had lasted 28 years
@RoryAlsop Is there a way to see a diff anywhere?
Don't cry I have some extra Z80 chips I can send you...
And I think I have a 6800 somewhere...
21:00
(it was a Motorola 6809)
Humm I don't think I have any of those...
@Scott - probably not - but I can tell you. I added the incident response bullet point, the link to crypto.se and the chat in the DMZ line
Ok, thanks
ooh @AviD - the analytics page now has buttons for daily or rolling everage - very whizzy
Ah I just realized that security.SE graduating means that it can be linked to from careers.stackoverflow.com
21:08
@RoryAlsop Well SE rewards people for referrals to questions (via the userid embedded in the link that you send). I don't know if there is a way to send people to chat the same way....
I hate it how when I make a comment in chat on a message from a while ago, it scrolls me to the bottom with no easy way to get back, and the message I responded to isn't even visible any more so I have to start loading older messages....
@TheEvilPhoenix Welcome Evil Ubuntu user! Evil comes in so many variety these days :)
"You're the Diet Coke of evil, just one calorie, not evil enough."
22:03
@ThomasPornin My answer on that site: I think if it is about theory, math, algorithm design, etc it is good [at crypto.se]. But if it is about practice, implementation, coding, risk management, usability, etc. it should be on Security.SE.
Presumably I can't get smacked for quoting creative-commons-by-sa text from there, especially since it's my own :)
I definitely do not have enough fingers to use Emacs!
Or do I have an extra one? Guess it depends on what you count as a finger...
anyway
I have edited my blog post with @nealmcb's suggestion and it feels more balanced now, any thoughts anyone?
@ThomasPornin, can you see @Ninefingers' draft? I wonder e.g. about the line "cryptography is really all about data in motion, as opposed to data at rest"
@nealmcb hehe
@nealmcb No, I cannot see draft from other people
The line sounds cool
@Ninefingers I think this is an important post about a topic of endless confusion, and we have a great set of reviewers/collaborators to think it thru.
22:13
whether it makes sense depends on what is around it
@nealmcb ok maybe it's not, I agree. The point I am trying to make is that it is about protecting data over untrusted channels. It can't help you when you put the key and the ciphertext together on the same system.
@rory or @avid, can you give @thomas reviewer status on the blog?
@ThomasPornin Yeah - in context I think it works better than by itself, but I'm really curious myself about the whole thing. I've gotta run now, and haven't finished reading the revised draft, but it definitely is headed in the right direction. Thanks, @Ninefingers!
Hey!
@nealmcb no problemo. I also agree that @ThomasPornin should be a reviewer. +1, as they say.
@nealmcb Perhaps, but that's not what I'm using NaRQ for in this case. Definition of NaRQ per the "flag" menu: "It's difficult to tell what is being asked here. This question is ambiguous, vague, incomplete, overly broad, or rhetorical and cannot be reasonably answered in its current form."
22:21
@thisjosh to refer to your question, I'm using a watermarking that tries to be less destructive as possible. As it's a semi-fragile one, that not a real problem.
The asker in that case is obviously not giving us all the details, and thus far seems to be putting the question in some sort of fantasy- (or, perhaps more appropriately, nightmare-) land context that for all we know only exists in his head. Without further clarification, which does not appear to be soon forthcoming, we have no way of providing an answer that can objectively be deemed as accurate and acceptable.
@nealmcb @ThomasPornin I believe data at rest is industry-speak for a turned off encrypted hard disk? I read it in an article somewhere, I cannot remember where, but really encrypting your hard disk is about protecting it in transit, i.e. transit from points of use. When you stop (the message arrives) and turn the computer on (decrypt and read the message) cryptography stops being able to protect the hard disk (message).
In any case, I'm happy for any improvements, suggestions, comments or whatever else. Anything that makes it a better article is fine by me.
@Ninefingers Data at rest is industry-speak for data stored on any form of permanent media, whether encrypted or not.
Essentially, any data that is not "on the wire" or "over the air" is "at rest".
Except for RAM of course, but the argument can be made that even that counts for a very short period of time after system shut-down.
@Iszi ah ok, perhaps it holds as a phrase then.
@Ninefingers Was there a particular context for which you were attempting to validate its usage?
22:35
Yep, in this abbreviated snippet: "encryption and decryption are all about sending data over untrusted networks such that only the intended recipient can read that information. ... so cryptography is really all about data in motion, as opposed to data at rest. Cryptography ceases to be able to protect you when you decide to put the key and ..."
@Ninefingers I don't think that's proper usage.
The statement as written seems to say that cryptography is not meant to protect the hard drive sitting in my laptop bag - which is "data at rest".
@Iszi hmmm, any ideas?
@nealmcb done - welcome to the Editors, @Thomas
@Ninefingers I think I understand the message you're trying to get across, but I'm not sure quite how to re-work it. Ideas, @RoryAlsop or @ThomasPornin?
if i'm setting up openssh-server on a system that is not a server (i.e. a workstation or actual system that I need to remote into that has access to other servers), should I change the auth methods so that only ssh keys are accepted, or should I leave it so both keys and passcodes are accepted?
22:42
@TheEvilPhoenix Sounds like a good question to post, but it'll need a lot more context.
@Iszi all the context is already in the chat transcripts from a few hours ago
Only here briefly, but I think in terms of industry usage, we all agree that crypto is used to protect data at rest (whether stored on powered down or powered up hard drives, CD's, USB keys etc) by encrypting the data, or in motion by encrypting the channel. It is further used as part of the authentication path
with @ScottPack
Maybe it would be better to just ask generally, what are the benefits and drawbacks of each method.
@TheEvilPhoenix Care to bookmark and link it?
um... hang on a sec
@Iszi want me to post as a question to the site, or would you rather me post the two links here? Its a two-part bookmark
22:48
@TheEvilPhoenix If you have a well-formed question, it's definitely preferable that it goes on the site.
was more of an opinion question, but i never got a full response
Ah, well opinion stuff definitely goes in chat, then.
mhm
Part 1:

SSH Question to ScottPack (Part 1)

4 hours ago, 1 minute total – 4 messages, 1 user, 0 stars

Bookmarked 7 mins ago by The Evil Phoenix

SSH Question to ScottPack (Part 2)

3 hours ago, 3 minutes total – 9 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 7 mins ago by The Evil Phoenix

^ Part 2
they were split by about 30 minutes of convo inbetween on unrelated stuff
23:17
@TheEvilPhoenix I think the next question that needs to be asked is, how much value do you place on the data (code, etc.) that's on your dev system?
@Mvy In terms of destructive you mean low impact to the observed image? semi-fragile as a tamper penalty?
wavelet transforms?
@Ninefingers I have read your draft -- great post ! For the level 4 of your black box setup, you might want to include a link to HDCP, because that's what they do (video is supposed to be encrypted all along, until it reaches the screen).
@TheEvilPhoenix When you say access to the servers what do you mean?
@ThomasPornin I thought someone might have tried it, somewhere, but I wasn't sure how to dig up anything on it. I'll do some searching and add it in, thanks!
23:33
@Ninefingers For the "data at rest": since I do not find it in your text, I believe you have already changed it. The paragraph where you somehow define encryption and decryption is like the rest of your text: it looks fine to me.
You might want to add a piece of explanation that I am quite fond of: "Encryption does not create confidentiality, it just concentrates confidentiality into the key. Presumably, it is easier to keep confidential a small key of fixed size, and the key uniform structure allows for the key confidentiality to be measured. Yet you have to start confidentiality at something. Once the key is known, confidentiality has left."
But that's just a suggestion; it is up to you.
@ThomasPornin interesting thought.
@ThomasPornin Yep, I'd removed it. I couldn't make an alternative work and I think that was partly where it was in the text. Ok, I might well incorporate that too - a few edits for tomorrow night I think!
I'm having a little trouble with it though, something is happening when you apply the key to the plaintext, but the key may exist before the plain text...
How can encryption concentrate confidentiality into the key if the key exists first and at the conclusion of the process the key is unaltered?
@thisjosh When you elect a President, he concentrates Power
yet I am pretty sure that Barack Obama was born quite some time before, and was already Barack Obama
and chances are that he will keep on being Obama after his one or two mandates
(although with the habit that Americans have of shooting at their presidents, that's not guaranteed)
23:49
processing...
Also, there is no reason for confidentiality to alter data, in the same way that disclosure is not supposed to alter what is disclosed (otherwise Wikileaks is a huge joke)
I must go for tonight
so long, people
Ok, good night
still processing...
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

« first day (210 days earlier)      last day (4968 days later) »