The DMZ

Iszi

01:41

@RoryAlsop @AviD @JeffFerland Thanks for the new hat.

Oh, and @Hendrik, if he's still around too.

Terry Chia

02:21

@Iszi What new hat?

Scott Pack

03:04

Happy Winter Solstice!

Terry Chia

07:22

Oh dear...

0

Q: Any good tutorials / libaries for implementing TLS-SRP?

In this thread, Tom Ptacek explains what Password-Authenticated Key Exchanges are, and it got me really interested in them. If I'd like to start learning about how to build them into real world software communication protocols, where can I find a starting point for information on understanding an...

ssl

user2309720

07:56

Hello!
I'm reading on email headers and I have noticed that most-if not all- the email headers set a privet IP address for the sender's machine and also the last server that deliver the message to me (in my case I was examining Google mails), I wonder why is the privet and not the actual address

AviD

09:13

This guy is complaining about getting too much HEAD...

2

Q: Increased HEAD traffic to my website

In the last few weeks I have been getting an increased HEAD traffic to my website of the form HEAD / HTTP/1.0" 200 0 "-" "-" This just returns the details of my web server, right? The IPs are from all over the world. Any idea on why this started suddenly? I do get the usual attacks infrequent...

webserver http logging forensics head

Terry Chia

@AviD Cmon.... keep it clean enough for your daughter man! ;)

AviD

you're right, she hasnt really learned the details of HTTP methods yet....

Terry Chia

@AviD So what are you waiting for? :P

AviD

interest :-(

she kinda lost interest after taking an advanced college course in 9th grade....

not to mention that she refuses to hear ANYthing from me.

when you HAVE teenage kids, instead of being one, you'll understand ;-)

Terry Chia

09:30

Cmon? @AviD I'm sure you already know the answer. :P

AviD

to my q? really not at all.

I am very not familiar with it

just pi-curious. I guess.

Lucas Kauffman

herro

Adnan

09:46

gommorring!

AviD

I dont get it.

can one of you go and apply the raspberry-pi tag to, e.g. this security.stackexchange.com/q/29941/33 ?

Adnan

@AviD What do you mean?

TildalWave

@AviD hehehe yeah, just posted an answer ... it's annoying how many web admins claim on teh internetz that they should be blocked, which simply isn't true

Terry Chia

@AviD That question doesn't fit the tag.

Adnan

I think @AviD just went insane

TildalWave

09:56

@Adnan just?

AviD

10:13

hehehe

@TerryChia why not?

@TerryChia oh hang on, you're right

Terry Chia

@AviD See? I can be a voice of reason in this hat madness as well. ;)

AviD

@TildalWave how can you block head??

@TerryChia or, you could put it on, and then take it off a while later.

TildalWave

@AviD heheh

Terry Chia

@AviD Done. Later you will help me with that reopen hat. ;)

AviD

@TerryChia and dont you have an answer for Pi overflow q?

cant believe this didnt get starred: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/12785718#12785718 ;-)

Terry Chia

10:18

@AviD Pretty lazy plus I don't know the topic well enough to write a good answer. Especially the "how do you exploit it" part.

Sure, I could do research, but that involves effort.

AviD

@TerryChia well, I imagine the defenses part will only be answerable by the likes of @Thomas, maybe @Polynomial, and @Antony (May he R.I.P.).

actually figured youd have the experience for "how to exploit"...

DAMMIT, why am I still not getting that damn scarfhat??!!?

I think I broke it.

This is why I love reading Bear answers (well, aside from always learning enough to make my head explode):

> The only companies who can afford to shout at customers are companies who are in the fear management business, i.e. the Mafia, non-democratic governments, and televangelists.

Rory Alsop

10:35

@Iszi no worries...(what did I do?)

AviD

@RoryAlsop flaggrabber

Rory Alsop

ahh, yes, the Eagle-y one

Anyway - morning (or early afternoon) @AviD

AviD

@TerryChia uh huh, uh huh, I got that hat, oh babay.

@RoryAlsop not yet, noonish.

and my board meeting was postponed at the last minute... :S

"meeting" == confcall

@Tigger cant do anything right :-(

Oh Thomas Pornin! You rock my world! This was great reading! — bethlakshmi yesterday

Oh @Thomas, you big hairy bear, you.

Terry Chia

@AviD Nah, not familiar at all with the whole ARM architecture stack to be able to answer how exploiting it differs from x86.

I only know the DEP/ASLR/canary one.

AviD

@TerryChia sure, but you could probably think of appropriate vectors better than most.

@TerryChia oh?

Terry Chia

10:41

NX is there, ARM calls it the XN (execute never) bit.

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD I think you should broaden your quesiton to ARM rather than the raspberry pi

Terry Chia

ASLR isn't a property of the architecture. It's done by the kernel and the Pi is obviously running Linux so....

AviD

@TerryChia oh, they must be little endian.

@LucasKauffman I dont know enough about it... feel free to edit it.

Terry Chia

Although it's probably less effective than x86_64 since ARMv6 is 32bit.

I think stack canaries should be supported as well, as long as the code is compiled with the right flags, but I can't find anything supporting it and I'm lazy to get my Pi out and check.

AviD

@TerryChia fair, point, those were examples. Also, it is a property of the specific "edition" of the OS - does it work the same was for Linux/ARM as Linux/x64?

Terry Chia

10:45

@AviD Yes. See Android with ASLR support.

AviD

@LucasKauffman do you not think the whole SoC story is relevant?

Terry Chia

@AviD The SoC is less relevant than the ARM architecture. (ARMv6, ARMv7, ARMv8, etc)

Lucas Kauffman

exactly

AviD

less, sure, but completely irrelevant?

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD you could add it in

AviD

10:47

@LucasKauffman again, I dont really know enough about that to know what I'm talking about there. thats why I'm asking, I dont know what or how it affects.

Terry Chia

@AviD I think so yes, but I can't say for sure. I mean.. you don't differentiate between AMD and Intel x86 do you? Or the Atom series vs Xeon.

Lucas Kauffman

IIRC on phones they had a whole thing with the first NFC implementations having vulnerabilities because of the SoC

but that's not really relevant to the Rpi

AviD

no, but this is different (or at least, it seems different, to me as someone who doesnt really know how those bits work). SoC basically means the whole physical architecure, all the different pluggable components, are different, all the internal pathways work differently.

Or so it seems to me.

part of why I'm interested, it's not often I find a whole sub-field in which I barely know anything.

@LucasKauffman perhaps not, but a perfect example of what COULD be an issue.

Terry Chia

@AviD Yes, but in the case of a buffer overflow, you are not dealing with the hardware itself.

AviD

@TerryChia no, but some of the high-end, low-level attacks can be directly affected by it.

again, I dont have enough knowledge about this to know if I'm talking crap or not.

for all I know, I could be @simon'ing all over the place.

3

Rory Alsop

10:52

Evening @Terry

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Evening actually. :)

Rory Alsop

that's what I said :-)

ahem

Terry Chia

@AviD Nah, at least you recognize that you might be talking crap. @Simon probably has no such idea.

AviD

hehe

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD most of the stuff like ASLR and Canaries are an operating system responsibility, that's why on x86 you can actually still deliberately disable these features when compiling code

Terry Chia

10:53

@RoryAlsop See, now you make me look crazy. That's an abuse of mod powers.

AviD

I like how we went verbed @simon.

@TerryChia hey, its not his mod-abuse that makes you look crazy.

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD I'm still starting with it as well, might do an ARM exploitation course later this year

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia I think anyone can do that - if you're quick enough

(isn't that correct? Edit grace period?)

AviD

@LucasKauffman cool!

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Ah right. But don't you mods get an option to edit without leaving history?

TildalWave

10:56

@AviD We're now Tau-curious, Pi is so last century! :P

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia dunno - I assumed there was a log

does it not show up the history?

actually - in grace period it might not

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop It does. (At least in this case)

AviD

@TildalWave yeah, but tau-curious doesnt have the same ring to it as pi-curious....

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD securitytube.net this guy is the expert atm imo

TildalWave

@AviD I'd be careful of those rings :)

Rory Alsop

10:57

@AviD Oh, Pi- I was misspelling that

AviD

1 hour ago, by AviD

just pi-curious. I guess.

Terry Chia

I might be planning a trip to Defcon next year if I can. Will anyone here be going?

Lucas Kauffman

@TerryChia depends if we get budget or not

TildalWave

I wish, but that's rarely enough

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia ... odds are slim, unfortunately

@LucasKauffman you guys usually have a squad

Make friends with the US guys

Lucas Kauffman

10:59

@RoryAlsop already doing that :p helping out Aidan with a licensing project which was initiated with the Americans

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman Ah cool. I'll have to wait till I know whether my enlistment date is before or after August.

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryAlsop we were able to send two people last year, but this year we want to send the whole team

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman excellent.

@LucasKauffman I used to do the business benefits argument: try and give a value of all the talks/training and if you then get a cheap travel/hotel deal it works out cheaper than some UK based training

For practitioners the argument works - it's tricky arguing the case when you get to senior management :-(

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryAlsop yea that's the plan, EY would pay the flight and tickets and hotel (we would share rooms), and we would pay everything else like food and drinks

I'd be happy if they just pay flights

@RoryAlsop yea we will need two partners signing off on it :(

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman Ken used to be supportive ... just sayin'

Lucas Kauffman

11:09

@RoryAlsop interesting :p

Terry Chia

13:34

@AviD Hah! Someone actually downvoted you.

AviD

whaaat? why??

Terry Chia

@AviD Dunno. Haters.

AviD

yeah, well... I guess they are just too closed off in their own little mass produced world. Sheeple.

Probably never heard of Rasperry Pi, it's kind of a new thing.

Gilles

13:48

@RoryAlsop in chat, it's 2 minutes for ordinary users, but infinite for mods

AviD

@Gilles so most users here can only do it for 2 minutes? Being a mod, and being able to go for as long as I like (unlike Terry), feels like a desirable superpower.

Terry Chia

@AviD TWSS

AviD

see what I did there?

Terry Chia

@AviD ;)

Gilles

and we can even do it to others' posts!

(Of course this is abuse.)

Terry Chia

13:53

@Gilles You can't edit without leaving the history trace though right?

Gilles

@TerryChia no

can you see the history as a non-mod though? I forget

yes, you can

So @AviD have you figured out the Dr Who hat, or did you get it accidentally?

AviD

ymean the hipster?

Gilles

@AviD the one you're wearing now

I did a bit of retagging, but I can't seem to hand it out

AviD

yeah, I figured it out a while ago, got it for @Manish and @Rory. Didnt think of any decent posts for meself though....

@Gilles There is a post on MSO, if you want...

Of course the HAT DETECTIVE!! figured it out long before that.

Gilles

@AviD is it correct now? Last I looked it wasn't

AviD

13:56

@Gilles correct, not accurate.

I'm pretty sure the first q needs some upvotes.

no wait, actually I think I might have ruled that out....

or not. Dont remember.

Once everybody knows how to get the Hipster hat, it's not really as interesting for me anymore. You wouldn't understand...

Terry Chia

@AviD 24 hours if you want that bounty.

> Eventually, Scott and his men won the battle and later found 28 dead Japanese soldiers in the dugouts. Considering he was believed to have thrown 30 grenades total, this pretty much makes Robert Scott the first historically confirmed grenade sniper.

cracked.com/…

AviD

meh, sounds like he missed a couple.

Then again, the only time I threw a live grenade, was in basic training with an attached officer. And, I almost blew up the officer...

At least I did remember to pull the pin. Not everybody did.

Gilles

@AviD you threw a grenade with an attached officer? Good throwing arm!

AviD

hehehe, well the punctuation would prove you possibly wrong.

first time trainees throw a live grenade (after practicing with a dummy, of course), the officer literally attaches himself to his flak jacket, and at any sign of dummy mistakes, tosses the traineer out of the cement bunker and jumps on him.

TildalWave

14:35

@AviD your avatar looks like some crazy bee

AviD

@TildalWave Any time @Tigger tries to dress himself, he winds up looking like he was mugged by the Salvation Army.

TildalWave

@AviD I can't find an image of some cartoon... not sure which cartoon it was, but it must be pretty old... and it had some crazy fat bumblebee with a japanese accent in it

AviD

thats racist

TildalWave

no it isn't

then everything is, so what the heck

found it

Puck from Maja the Bee

AviD

heh

not sure how that looks like me...

TildalWave

14:49

yeah, memory was playing tricks on me

man, that's like 30 years ago

maybe more

Scott Pack

15:05

So. @TildalWave. I've been told that in a few days I'm going to a Slovenian restaurant. I've also been told that it's very similar to German food. What can you say regarding these claims?

@AviD My buddy tells me that during basic when he was doing grenade training their targets were plywood cutouts in foxholes. He got really good at hitting the target in the head with a rebound into the foxhole.

Gilles

@ScottPack you expect TildalWave to know whether you've been told that you're going to go to a Slovenian restaurant?

AviD

15:23

@ScottPack like I said, I only threw one live. So it was just a lob in the general direction of "outside the bunker".

Not everyone hit their target.

since I wasnt infantry, we didnt really have much call to practice it much more. We tended to handle much larger explosives, with a much longer range.

Terry Chia

@AviD Right, it's all about the size.

AviD

@TerryChia and the shock vibrations.

besides, it would be no contest - I definitely had the biggest cannon.

TildalWave

@ScottPack Really? Cool. :) Well, depends how "traditional" they will be, and I guess also the region they represent. We might have a small country but that doesn't mean we're anything alike each other LOL

Do you have a link perhaps? Or maybe a name of the restaurant?

@ScottPack this one? viewmenu.com/frank-sterles-slovenian-country-house/…

AviD

16:00

that looks yum.

Scott Pack

16:11

@AviD To be fair, he was infantry as well, and I'm not sure how deep they got. He never told me about throwing lives, but it makes some sense that eventually there would be.

@TildalWave Ye olde wife can't remember the name, but didn't recognize that one. I do love me some paprikash, but the Klobase And Zelje also looks really yummo.

TildalWave

@ScottPack The latter is more "traditional Slovenian" paprikash is actually Hungarian. And if it's that restaurant, then they seem to be from the far East of my country, so that'd be a strange mix of Hungarian, Austrian, and some Slovenian kitchen. If that's it, then you absolutely must ask for "gibanica" which is a desert with apples, cottage cheese and poppy seeds... it's really good, but take notice that it is rather heavy ;)

Scott Pack

@TildalWave I always associate paprikash with Hungary but it seems to show up just about everywhere. I blame either imperialism or deliciousness. Or perhaps imperialistic deliciousness.

Gilbanica. I'll remember it.

TildalWave

Anyway, I rarely eat what such restaurants advertise as "traditional" anyway. But I've never seen an American complain about food here.

@ScottPack Better write it down because I'm sure you won't be able to pronounce it... you'll need a few beers to do that first :)

full name is "Prekmurska gibanica"

I love it, but it's almost a meal on its own

AviD

@TildalWave yeah, a lot of those foods sound a lot like what my grandmother used to make, and she's hungarian.

@TildalWave hard "g", or soft?

TildalWave

@AviD like in "good"

Scott Pack

16:24

@AviD Did you seriously just ask @TildalWave if it was hard or soft?

TildalWave

hehehe

should look something like this

AviD

hehe

TildalWave

oh and nuts too

AviD

@TildalWave wrong, like in "tigger".

TildalWave

@AviD ok so which "g" is that then? soft?

AviD

16:25

@TildalWave hehehe, ummmm.... I think that's hard "g".

Scott Pack

Seriously. Stahp guis.

@TildalWave So this?

Prekmurska gibanica

Prekmurska gibanica (Prekmurian layer cake) is a type of gibanica or layered cake. It contains poppy seeds, walnuts, apples, raisins and ricotta fillings. Although native to Prekmurje, it has achieved the status of a national specialty of Slovenia. The unique sweetmeat shows the variety of agriculture in this region. The name gibanica comes from dialectical expression güba and in this case refers to a fold. History For centuries prekmurska gibanica was served as a festive and ritual dish in Prekmurje. The exact origin of the recipe is not clear. Early sources suggest that it evolved over...

That talks about ricotta as opposed to cottage

TildalWave

@ScottPack it's Wikipedia man, what do they know?

AviD

@ScottPack haha, I saw it mention sweetmeat, and I'm llike "whaaaaa??"

then on the Sweetmeat WP page, I see

> Not to be confused with Sweetbread.

Scott Pack

@TildalWave DON'T YOU DARE MOCK WIKIPEDIA THE SOURCE OF ALL KNOWLEDGE

4

AviD

okay, yeah, that makes sense now.

oh no. We wont hear from @Iszi now for a week or two.

TildalWave

16:28

LOL

@ScottPack Oh, a friendly warning, if that restaurant is really supposed to represent that East region of my country as it looks like it might (if it is the one at all), then they're known for serving you food and drinks until your stomach bursts open. No joke. Likely the most hospitable people I've ever seen. I can barely understand the word they're saying but that never stopped me from having a great time. :)

and beware of the house wine!

Scott Pack

16:45

Because it's 45% or because it's terrible?

AviD

oh lord.

0

Q: Does the haystack theory work

What do you think of Steve Gibsons recommendation to put repeated characters in your password to make it harder for brute force to reveal?

encryption

anybody wanna drop some attrition on this guy? I dont have patience right now.

not to mention its specifically phrased to attempt to elicit discussion....

TildalWave

@ScottPack it's inconspicuous :)

@AviD me neither, I just wanted to comment but rather decided not to

I'd close it as "primarily opinion based" and if The Big Bear wants to nuke it with poetry, we can always reopen it for those 15 minutes he'd need

Thomas Pornin

Ah damn, @Rory, you close questions too fast

Rory Alsop

done

TildalWave

There.... plan B :D

Rory Alsop

16:51

...@Thomas - do you want to answer it? I realise your answer would probably be as useful and fun as normal...but it is a crap question

Thomas Pornin

@RoryAlsop I have a really serious, mathematical answer half written already

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop it mentions Gibson ...

Scott Pack

@TildalWave Gibson's not so terrible that I want to shun any mention of him as heresy, but he's certainly bad enough to warrant a "Oh boy" response.

Rory Alsop

@ThomasPornin I'm torn..... can I give it a quick edit and then reopen it so it doesn't mention Gibson

Thomas Pornin

@RoryAlsop Gibson does not deserve being censored away silently.

Only really evil people must be dispatched in the dark.

Gibson is easy to defeat with plain open Science.

Rory Alsop

16:54

e sentence from your comment

TildalWave

@ScottPack dunno about "bad" but he does seem a bit like what Neil DeGrasse Tyson is to astrophysics ... knows a lot but plays the popular tune for the masses

which on itself isn't really bad

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave I need to google another name - haven't heard of this dude

@ThomasPornin I have reopened

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop then he fails in his main objectives :)

Rory Alsop

My edit removes the Gibson from the question

Thomas Pornin

@RoryAlsop Thanks.

TildalWave

16:57

nice, I earned the "reanimated" hat too

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave win!

TildalWave

indeed :)

Thomas Pornin

Done.

Rory Alsop

upvoted

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Interesting that you haven't heard of Tyson. He's hardly my fav, then I by far prefer e.g. Michio Kaku if there is someone that needs to fill the role Sagan used to have too... you know, popularizing science, but I haven't much against him either. He's often a guest in American shows whenever they need explanation for some tougher science cookies

Rory Alsop

17:04

and smiling

@TildalWave ahh - here we have Brian Cox

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Oh God!

LOL

Rory Alsop

I actually quite like him in that role, but then I enjoyed his music in the nineties

TildalWave

his discoveries of "the meaning of life" are painful

Rory Alsop

The kids love him, and while he does dumb stuff down to get the popular views, he does get people interested. For 6 to 12 year olds I think he is perfect

For adults....not quite so much :-)

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop That I can agree with

Rory Alsop

17:07

2 of mine want to be in science/engineering so that's not a bad start

They are desperate to see their first aurora, and have already seen saturn's moons through a telescope

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop You might get a chance this year, it's around the solar maximum and there's some nice spots on its equator rolling into our view. It wouldn't be unheard of that there'd be aurora borealis visible from north of Scotland

galilean moons are a good way to impress astronomy beginners yup

@RoryAlsop wait, Saturn's moons?

that's a fair bit trickier

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave well, 1 moon. We watched all 4 of Jupiters moons for a while then found Saturn and for a while everyone admired the rings till we spotted a strange bump. Loads of focusing later and we figured out that's what it was.

very impressive.

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Titan?

Rory Alsop

Must have been. Trying to remember the spec of that telescope - it belongs to my sister in law and is fully computer controlled so can track smoothly

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Meade LX200 is rather popular with people with a healthy cash flow, Saturn would be relatively easy for it, and you'd see Titan rolling in front of it easy enough too

tho that's pretty expensive stuff

Rory Alsop

17:18

Think it was a 4.5-inch Cassegrain - about £1k worth

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop wanna add the word "telescope" to that sentence before @AviD sees it? :)

Rory Alsop

hahahahahaha

Not 100% sure, but I think so

Scott Pack

@TildalWave I would disagree with that primarily because it seems like Tyson actually seems to know his stuff. Gibson always struck me as the kind of guy that half-read a whitepaper once and labeled himself an expert.

TildalWave

but yes, on a clear night a 4" + dobsonian / newtonian should do the trick

Scott Pack

@TildalWave I'd also like to point out that I work with a guy who half-skims a whitepaper, labels himself an expert, and he's a freaking nightmare to deal with.

Rory Alsop

17:21

@TildalWave It was a good night actually. We had a decent eclipse, which was only good through binoculars - the telescopes were just too high mag and flattened detail too much. Jupiter was beautiful, and we were just delighted the kids got to see Saturn

TildalWave

@ScottPack OK, fair enough :) Gibson is a bit of a quack, Tyson isn't. Perhaps it wasn't the best comparison...

@RoryAlsop do you ever get Sun or Moon halos there? I'm not sure if they'd be bright enough but at a low enough angle, but they should be possible, likely around Dec. 21 (so this time of the year)

like this

that's from Stockholm tho

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave Back home in Orkney, you get aurorae most years - occasionally with sound (the best I ever saw was bright purple, and perhaps stretching to 8-10 degrees south of our latitude with the most amazing fizzing and crackling noise) - but we don't tend to have enough high altitude ice to get sundogs or haloes

I have only seen sundogs once from Scotland, and they were nothing like that :-)

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop oh that's cool, I expect that they'd have to form right up from where you're standing to hear them, right?

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave I honestly don't know - there isn't much literature mentioning the sound so it must be relatively rare

TildalWave

►

there, explained ;)

hmmm, no that's not what I hoped it'll explain LOL she's describing radio noise, not audible sound ... but I did see some mention of that before too ... hmmm, now where is it?

found it: alaskadispatch.com/article/…

I knew it has some YouTube video :)

Rory Alsop

17:43

We didn't hear that clapping noise, just the fizzing/hissing - looks like they don't know the actual cause either :-)

This one sounds like a pure networking question so I plan to migrate - any thoughts?

0

Q: Expose virtual machine to internet [pentest lab]

I would like to create a virtual machine using virtual box for making a hacking lab and allow someone to try to hack it from internet. (So the virtual machine would be the victim). How can I do that? All the devices in my lan, virtual machines included share a unique ip i guess, so how can I expo...

linux penetration-test virtualization

Thomas Pornin

17:54

@RoryAlsop I saw Sun dogs once, from a town in the centre of France (about 46.5º of latitude).

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop No objections from me, it's a config question

@RoryAlsop so a bit like standing under a frozen powerline?

@ThomasPornin They are possible but a lot more frequent in high latitudes. I've seen one sun halo once while skiing, but it was also snowing a bit through thin clouds, I guess it was just the right conditions. Wasn't as impressive as those I've seen on pics tho

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave a little, only much quieter

TildalWave

three Suns but not a full ring

@RoryAlsop I heard some other people say that to me and I can't say I'm too surprised, I'm not sure why scientists would have hard time believing or proving it. It sounds perfectly reasonable to me that there would be some audible noise with layers of charged particles moving in jets of air, why not? There would have to be similar effects like with high voltage capacitors or Tesla coil

BTW I've had the "pleasure" of being rather close to where a lightning struck, not once but twice... and I also heard slowly fainting crackling of plasma after the flash. And the thunder isn't anything like how you hear it from afar either, it's more like someone slapped you on your ears

Thomas Pornin

@TildalWave Thunder from afar is long-winded because there are many paths for the sound to go from the source to your ear, with a lot of possible combinations of reflections.

You hear the same thunder hundreds of times over a dozen seconds, in fact, with various alterations.

From close, though, you get it once and in one go.

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin oh I know that, but it's still surprising even if you understand the science behind it how short it really is when you're meters away from it

I wouldn't even call it "a sound"... it's more "physical"

I mean, I know that's what "a sound" is

From pure sound perspective, it's actually rather shallow, like a really loud clap of two flat surfaces

Scott Pack

18:58

@TildalWave To be fair, I don't have anything approaching a deep understanding of astrophysics. I'm relying back to my physics and astro101 coursework from college primarily to calibrate my bullshit meter.

TildalWave

@ScottPack That should put you in advantage over most, but I guess what I wanted to say is that there's inevitably gonna be a lot of BS if you wanna explain complex concepts to simple people. Some religions might have started that way even, who knows? Maybe those that started them were enlightened, but it all got lost during the great watering down era :)

While we're chatting casually about science ... does any of you know of some good space science & exploration infographics? That are still up to date enough? I made a meta thread on SX where you can post them, or just ping me and I'll add them for you: meta.space.stackexchange.com/questions/472/…

could be also about astronomy, I might as well start the same thread there too

Xander

20:00

@RoryAlsop Yes, migrate please.

:-)

AviD

@RoryAlsop Saturn? Not Uranus...? hurhurhur

@TildalWave you missed, that was the wrong one.

TildalWave

@AviD what was?

AviD

3 hours ago, by TildalWave

@RoryAlsop wanna add the word "telescope" to that sentence before @AviD sees it? :)

you forget - grandma's chiiickeeen salaaad :P

►

TildalWave

@AviD I have good memory, I forget fast :)

AviD

20:32

@RoryAlsop excellent edit on the gibson crapuestion.

you really took it from "hammer it hard with prejudice" to "upvote worthy". Especialy thanks to @ThomasPornin's answer.

@Lucas hehe, that defcon vid you linked to re ARM - turns out I know the guy. :-)

well, met him - was going to work with him, they tried recruiting me a few months ago. turned them down....

Rory Alsop

21:26

@AviD - while I realise that the word Gibson will attract more views, they would be crap views, so it had to be done:-)

AviD

oh absolutely. I think we should petition SEI to make that a block word for us...

Simon

You guys are mean.

@RoryAlsop You hit one hell of a rep train man, wow.

Scott Pack

@TildalWave Oh definitely, I totally agree with that. It's hard to explain highly technical material in largely non-technical terms without bypassing quite a lot of detail.

Lucas Kauffman

@Avid the infusec world is small

AviD

@ScottPack lets face it, the non-techies dont like detail, thats why they call us nerds.

Scott Pack

21:40

@AviD They call your face a nerd.

CodesInChaos

22:19

@ScottPack Wikipedia does not like being the source of any information. [citation needed]

Scott Pack

@CodesInChaos Requires Cleanup Their personal preference is irrelevant to this conversation.

Rory Alsop

23:29

@Simon It wasn't my fault. People are just weird :-)

Simon

Yeah they are.

AviD

@RoryAlsop yeah, my fault probably.... all cuz of that hipster.

Speaking of which, I think I broke the hats. I have 20 hats, but no hat-hat.

Simon

Brag about it.

AviD

whoa, yeah, @RoryAlsop your crap train went nukular.

Rory Alsop

@AviD I know. I'm so conflicted right now :-)

AviD

23:38

btw, so is that Gibson crapstion.

@RoryAlsop It actually turned out to be a really interesting question, with a lot of great answers.

so overall it was a net positive.

on the other hand, it looks like @LucasKauffman will be passing me next week, all thanks to this q... so I'm not sure about that.

speaking of, @LucasKauffman welcome to the 2nd row! and congrats on passing @Jefff!

Simon

And he's back with more craziness:

►

AviD

what

the

hell

did you just make me watch

????

Simon

Watch all of it.

ALL OF IT.

AviD

no.

Simon

You're boring.

AviD

23:43

you should mark that as NSFA.

Not safe for ANYONE.

then again, there is that little warning to the left of it, a circle with one part each yellow, blue, green and red.

Simon

Sure, hence why the parody of Wrecking Ball he made on Chatroulette has 87M views on YT and it was posted on November 26th.

AviD

Should have known better than to click anything posted by @Simon.

@Simon you're just proving my point.

and now I understand the front page of youtube.

Simon

wot

Rory Alsop

@AviD I'm very glad @ThomasP requested a reopen - gave me a reason to edit it.

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