The DMZ

Simon

17:00

@Adnan I wonder if that's what she thinks.

I'm kidding, she definitely hates you forever now.

Still funny how much of an amateur she was at hiding her identity.

Adnan

@Simon Dude, no need for that last message.

Simon

Well, she did like to state the truth even when it was harsh, right? Why would I not do so too, then?

Adnan

@Simon On a totally different topic. Thanks for upvoting that dude's answer, now I have another Populist badge.

Simon

@Adnan My pleasure.

Adnan

@Simon You have a long way to approach the subject of getting close to even attempting to understand the mentality of teenage girls.

Simon

17:04

@Adnan Haha, who says that I do want to understand them?

Adnan

@Simon Dude, you're 21. Teenage girls is pretty much your dating pool

Simon

Define teenage girls.

In a range.

Adnan

@Simon Anywhere between 14 and 23

Simon

And I'm 22!

Adnan

(IMO)

Simon

17:05

Really? I'm still a teenager? Wohoo!!

Time to do much more stupid shit.

Adnan

@Simon See? You get it.

Scott Pack

@Simon What's this for requesting access meow?

Simon

@ScottPack Oh, nevermind that.

@Adnan Hehe.

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan That's not "teenager". That's the range for "twerp".

Simon

twerp?

ManishEarth

17:06

ALL HAIL THE BEAR!

@ScottPack the room was gallery

Adnan

@ThomasPornin I guess I view all teenagers as twerps

Simon

1. a silly or annoying person.

Adnan

and mistakenly apply it vice versa.

Simon

The definition is 2 known words. Use them next time, please.

Scott Pack

@ManishEarth Who did that?

Thomas Pornin

17:07

@Adnan Yes. Teenager is a sufficient but not necessary condition.

Adnan

@ScottPack Go up a little.

Simon

@ScottPack Read up, it's damn worth it.

THE ROOM REFRESHED

Adnan

@ScottPack Apparently, I've been a bad bad boy.

Scott Pack

/me sighs

Simon

@ScottPack This is what happens when you leave us, daddy.

Adnan

17:08

@Simon :O

David Freitag

That never gets easier to read.

Simon

@Adnan He's been my dad for a week now.

Adnan

@Simon Last night I heard 'daddy' in a very different context. I no longer view that word the same.

Simon

@Adnan "Who's your daddy?" ?

Adnan

@Simon Good one. You're getting better.

Alright, sauna time. Later, everybody.

Simon

17:09

See ya.

Welcome back, sauna boy.

Scott Pack

@LucasKauffman Regarding PII usually it's only PII if used in combination with other peices of information. I can't see how an IP could be considered PII unless the person's name is also used. Since we don't know Kalina's name it can't be PII. Unless you're an uppity mod who wants to troll or pretend like you know what you're talking about. /cc @MadaraUchiha

Granted, I didn't read the whole transcript but I read enough to get tired of it.

Simon

@ScottPack I want to marry you.

Scott Pack

Now then. If what @Adnan did is in good taste or not is another question, but it's also irrelevant.

Iszi

@ScottPack It's starting to sound like I should read the transcripts more often, and more in-depth, when I come in.

Scott Pack

@Iszi Adnan used the hotlinking thing to find an IP address. Some people started throwing around the whole, "illegal use of mod tools" and "violation of Terms of Service" thing.

Iszi

17:18

@ScottPack Oh, you mean that information disclosure vulnerability that's come up in about a half-dozen Sec.SE, Meta.Sec.SE, and Meta.SO threads over the years?

Scott Pack

@Iszi Yeah.

Iszi

Depending on the exact terms, and personal interpretation, it could be a ToS violation...

Especially depending on one's definition of "harassment" and "stalking".

CodesInChaos

The definition of PII is a bit unclear. But I think some German courts consider an IP+time pair PII

Thomas Pornin

@Iszi I think (I have not read the whole transcript) that the issue here was not gathering the IP, but actually posting it as plaintext afterwards, right here in the chat.

CodesInChaos

Personally I agree with that interpretation since it can often be used to look up the user using the ISP's database.

Scott Pack

17:24

@CodesInChaos It depends on your municipality fo shizzle.

lynks

Nobody said there had been a ToS violation, and that was never given as a reason for the messages being deleted. The reason was that Adnan threatened to post her IP, she asked him not to, and he posted it anyway...three times, with the mods deleting it each time.

Iszi

@ThomasPornin Again, may fit into some peoples'/courts' definition of "harassment".

Scott Pack

@lynks The maddaraaara mod, or whatever, was making that allegation.

Lucas Kauffman

@ThomasPornin next time we will hash it before posting

Iszi

@lynks And that almost definitely fits into a more generally-acceptable definition of "harassment".

lynks

17:25

I took exception with that attitude. And hiding behind the old "tell me what rule ive broken" is no excuse to actively upset another user.

Scott Pack

It's certainly not PII under Ohio law.

Rory McCune

@Adnan sorry, it had been there a long time, I tend to unstar stuff after a while, keeps the star-wall fresh :)

CodesInChaos

@LucasKauffman Stackoverflow did that with their IP based gravatars. Of course I unhashed all of them.

lynks

I don't come on enough these days to know if Kalina is a widely disliked member, which seems to be the case and the reason for everyone siding against her. All I saw was one member bullying another. Regardless of the rules, that's not ok.

Scott Pack

I wouldn't say she was disliked. I rather enjoy having her around.

Simon

17:28

@lynks Disliked? Not at all otherwise no one would have talked to her.

@ScottPack Sorry buddy, I don't think you'll ever see her in here again.

Thomas Pornin

@lynks As far as I gather, @Kalina is a rather fresh import with a pony-themed avatar, attracted here after some overzealous flagging (involving Simon or Adnan, don't remember which)

Simon

@ThomasPornin Involving me, caused by Adnan. And lol @ fresh import.

Thomas Pornin

She is purported female (hence the use of "she") and quite chatty.

Simon

@ThomasPornin LOL

kalina

say what

Simon

17:29

@ScottPack Alright, I spoke too quick.

kalina

actually I'm a little embarrassed I got caught not connected to the vpn I normally use

I still asked him not to link it

Simon

@kalina You should be.

Iszi

@lynks Disliked? A female, in here? I highly doubt that.

Simon

@ThomasPornin You have the funniest way ever to describe people, damn.

kalina

my flag complaint didn't mention PII or anything either

lynks

17:31

This is not a question of anonymous web using. It's about being nice to people.

Simon

Alright, alright, let's just put that story behind.

kalina

apparently Windows 8.1 does something different that prevents me from connecting to anonine

Scott Pack

@lynks I'm not disagreeing with that, I explicitly didn't comment on the appropriateness of it.

Simon

I'm fairly sure @Adnan is not gonna do it again. Therefore, everyone will be running in a field full of tweeting birds with pretty flowers.

HELLO @tylerl

I think I was slower than yesterday.

tylerl

@Simon yesterday you pinged me before I actually logged on

Simon

17:35

@tylerl Hahaha.

Iszi

@ScottPack Re: IPs as PII, you might want to check out NIST SP 800-122.

Simon

Man, if someone who only speaks English ever gets to review my code, he'll be confused as hell.

I tend to name variables half in French and half in English.

Go me.

Iszi

> NIST Special Publication 800-122 defines PII as ... "any other information that is linked or linkable to an individual, such as medical, educational, financial, and employment information." So, for example, a user's IP address as used in a communication exchange is classed as PII regardless of whether it may or may not on its own be able to uniquely identify a person.

Personally identifiable information

"Personally identifiable information" (PII), as used in US privacy law and information security, is information that can be used on its own or with other information to identify, contact, or locate a single person, or to identify an individual in context. The abbreviation PII is widely accepted in the US context, but the phrase it abbreviates has four common variants based on personal /personally, and identifiable / identifying. Not all are equivalent, and for legal purposes the effective definitions vary depending on the jurisdiction and the purposes for which the term is being used. (In ...

AviD

@Simon you should be skinned alive and dragged through the town square. Never touch a keyboard again.

6

Simon

@AviD Jesus Christ. I fixed those variable names buddy, calm down.

AviD

17:39

@Simon oh, I meant just in general, not specifically about the variable naming. ;-)

Simon

WHO ARE THE CREEPS STARRING THAT?

AviD

@Simon LOL

Simon

@AviD Oh, that's fine then.

David Freitag

@Simon Sup.

Simon

@DavidFreitag Hehe.

David Freitag

17:40

I gave the screen a little head bob like you would expect to go along with that. Just so you know

AviD

seriously though, it is a horrid antipattern. Not mention how much difficulty it causes for non-French teammates, auditors, reviewers, and tools.

Scott Pack

@Iszi Seriously? Goddamnit.

AviD

I had to learn quite a bit of Dutch because of people like that.

David Freitag

@AviD Ouch..

AviD

We hired a Turkish translator once.

Simon

17:41

@AviD At least Dutch is an awesome language.

3 unidentified creeps.

David Freitag

I always wondered what it was like programming in russian. It's not like everyone in the world speaks english.

AviD

@DavidFreitag no, but anyone who purports to be a programmer of any sort and at any level, should.

Scott Pack

@DavidFreitag That's crazy talk.

AviD

Programming languages are in English. Deal with it.

3

Iszi

@AviD Wait, France doesn't have the monopoly on tools?

David Freitag

17:42

Hehe

tylerl

@DavidFreitag There's plenty of examples of russian programming. Just grab the code off any compromised system

you can look for yourself

AviD

@Iszi heh, there are a few in Jersey... but I did mean automated tools, that scan either source code or HTTP/HTML for "marker" variable names.

tylerl

(spoiler: it sucks)

David Freitag

I'spose.

Woo another remix of the numa numa song. skip

Simon

Wait, I just had a flashback of me nicknaming my cat "tail". No wonders why I'm obsessed with mine.

David Freitag

17:49

@Simon Man, it really sucks that Google All Access is only in America, you are missing out on some great shizz.

Simon

@DavidFreitag And I thought Canada was part of America.

David Freitag

@Simon Lé sigh.

Simon

:)

David Freitag

►

Simon

30 seconds unskippable ads, FFFFUUUU.

@DavidFreitag Are you trying to kill me?!?

David Freitag

17:59

@Simon Oh but it's soooooo good... There isn't even any screaming. at all.

tylerl

@Simon adblock, silly. It works well on youtube.

David Freitag

@tylerl Indeed.

Simon

@tylerl Yeah... Well, there are channels that I do want to help though.

tylerl

@Simon turn it on, turn it off. Little checkbox on the address bar.

David Freitag

I don't know whether AdBlock counts as an impression from google's perspective though

I think it does

Simon

18:00

@tylerl Oh, that's cool.

Lucas Kauffman

SMACK MY BITCH UP WOOOH

David Freitag

Because AdBlock modifies the page after it's been transmitted... i think.

tylerl

@DavidFreitag adblock modifies the DOM in-browser.

David Freitag

@tylerl Which means the ad is still transmitted, and as far as google is concerned ti still counts as an impression. You will just never be able to click it.

Unless Google has some sort of post-load DOM monitoring..

tylerl

@DavidFreitag unless the ad is loaded dynamically from an element that is removed before it can trigger

David Freitag

18:05

@tylerl Mmm good point.. I would like to think that the AdBlock team at least allows for the impression... but i think you may be right.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD However you still should try to run your code on a computer with a Turkish locale. It is fun to see how many applications fail in that case.

(Also works with a Thai locale, not for the same reason.)

tylerl

@DavidFreitag The adblock team has changed their policy a bit to by default allow "unintrusive" ads, which is fine with me. Just block the page-takeover ads

David Freitag

@tylerl They should block the "You need to sign up to continue" popups too... I hate having to block them myself.

tylerl

@DavidFreitag you can add your own filter list

the plugin just provides teh framework

David Freitag

@tylerl Yeah but on most sites if you add those to the filter list it completely breaks the site

Lucas Kauffman

18:11

Like those ads that cover a page for 10 seconds I hate those

Simon

^ They're awful.

Lucas Kauffman

When the moooon meets your eye like a big pizza pie that's amoooore

Simon

Getting in the mood for Halloween?

ManishEarth

@kalina No, it didn't. The flag was reasonable, and I would have pressed delete if another mod hadn't gotten to it first :)

Simon

@ScottPack Oh, please tell me you got a villain costume for your daughter.

kalina

18:14

@ManishEarth I had to rejoin just to say WOW REALLY? YOU OF ALL PEOPLE AGREE WITH ME?

Adnan

WTF?!

"Bullying"? "Harassing"?

Are you fucking kidding me?!

ManishEarth

@kalina I agree with you, the message should have been deleted on your request. I just don't agree that adnan was out of line

kalina

@Adnan I never used any of these words

@ManishEarth I never said that, you saw the flag message

Adnan

@kalina Dude, no, not at all. I have zero problem with you. You already know that.

Simon

@Adnan Yeah, yeah. Someone got really upset about what you did.

ManishEarth

18:15

I know you didn't :)

kalina

I merely asked for it to be removed on account of me asking for it not to get posted

ManishEarth

Others did

Adnan

My problem is with the White Knights.

@kalina and you had every right to ask me. I also had every right to adhere to your request or not.

kalina

@Adnan and I had every right to request it was deleted

Simon

Oh lawd, they're gonna make out again.

Adnan

18:16

@kalina Indeed. I'm not going to argue with that at all.

kalina

I don't think "I'm here trolling" though

Adnan

@kalina The opposite

David Freitag

@kalina I would agree, although you have been know to troll.

Adnan

I'm sure most of us enjoy your company here.

At least I do.

Simon

Wait, what's the opposite of trolling?

kalina

18:17

somebody said that was my purpose here

there... is no opposite of trolling?

I duno

Simon

Yeah, hard to tell.

Well-behaving?

Nah, that sounds gay.

David Freitag

@Simon A valuable contribution to society?

Thomas Pornin

@Simon It is trolling too. You fight a troll with another troll.

Simon

@DavidFreitag Jesus.

kalina

@DavidFreitag pff, I do nothing that is out of the ordinary for this channel other than post the occasional pony.

David Freitag

18:18

@kalina Which is why you never hear me complaining ;]

Simon

@ThomasPornin How can the opposite of something be the very same thing? I feel like we're gonna open a black hole soon enough if we keep going.

Adnan

@lynks We don't need to lie, sweetie. Okay? The log is there for room owners to see. I posted her IP only once. You said I did it three times.

and yes, I just said you're a liar. It's a clear and documented lie.

kalina

@Simon the same way "the good guys" are only the good guys to the side they represent and "the bad guys" are only the bad guys to the side they represent

Simon

@Adnan I guess he counted the paste bin.

Adnan

@Simon The pastebin has all of the IP addresses. Also, I posted the pastebin at least 4 times.

Simon

18:20

@kalina And we just lost Asia. If you wanna get rid of Russia, keep going.

@Adnan Yep, I saw myself in there :P

David Freitag

@Simon Heh, me too.

Simon

That's what I get for being a homework.

Adnan

Anyway, I repeat. I have no problem with @kalina. She's a fun young lady. The problem is with those 4 members jumping "to help the girl" to earn some points for being nice to the ladies.

using words such as "bullying" and "harassment".

Simon

Byte56, the anime dude, lynks AND?

kalina

actually it's about time a mod encounter went my way, it has been two years of being on the losing side

David Freitag

18:22

lol

Thomas Pornin

@Simon That happens a lot in finite fields of characteristic 2.

Adnan

@kalina It didn't go your way. The messages are still there

2 hours ago, by Adnan

http://pastebin.com/wpnJcpH7

Simon

@ThomasPornin Are we in a black hole right now?

Adnan

2 hours ago, by Adnan

@Lucas http://pastebin.com/wpnJcpH7

2 hours ago, by Adnan

@Everybody: http://pastebin.com/wpnJcpH7

kalina

I'm home now, I already have a new IP, I still can't connect to my usual vpn though

Adnan

18:23

and whenever the link is removed, I'll post it again, and again.

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan Now I think you just stopped making sense altogether.

ManishEarth

@Adnan uh, don't do that. It's not against the rules, but it ain't polite either

Simon

Dayum.

hides

ManishEarth

Most of us here don't mind I think.

Because we know that allowing all types of images on a site like this leaves us open to tracking

Simon

@ManishEarth I wish I had a stalker.

ManishEarth

18:25

But if @kalina minds, I suggest you do her a favor and not keep sharing it.

kalina

@ManishEarth my actual current IP no longer appears in anything he's linking

ManishEarth

She can't force you not to post it (she can ask us to delete it though), but it's better to respect her wishes

Or that. That works.

Adnan

@ThomasPornin You all know how much I respect you (as we all do), but I think we have totally different point of views on this one. I take my rights very seriously, it's a personal issue dating back to where I was born. All it takes is compromising one thing, one little thing.

David Freitag

@Simon youtube.com/watch?v=1xRf0Q655MY

Adnan

@ManishEarth I will not do that because I choose not to. I will, however, do it again when I choose to.

(wait, what?!)

Simon

18:26

@Adnan I don't respect him anymore, since he hasn't thanked me for the lawn I mowed.

@DavidFreitag It better be good.

Starts decently.

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan I mean that I fail to see what good it could make to post that link again. Posting it once was already an experience in uselessness, but reposting it...

David Freitag

@Simon I think you'll like it. Even if a little

Simon

@DavidFreitag Sweet bass, brah.

David Freitag

yaaar.

Simon

Yo, rock dat beat.

Soz, at wurk lil man.

ManishEarth

18:29

It's still interesting how @Adnan managed to get the URLs of private rooms. I didn't realize that the ajax fetch for the sidebar fetches and runs the html as well

Simon

Oh man, the melody sounded a lot like that track from Jekyll & hyde for a sec.

AviD

@ThomasPornin oh sure. We used to run it in German too, because the translation for everything is so frikkin long - it often didnt fit on the screen space we gave it.

Simon

Yup, it was quite decent but the quality sucks.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD German also has an interesting twist: for a base word, converting it to uppercase, then lowercase, does not always yield the same thing as converting it directly to lowercase.

Hours of fun debugging that.

AviD

@ThomasPornin oh bloody germans! what the hell?

Simon

18:31

@AviD You're British now?

ManishEarth

There's some issue with turkish and uppercase too, right?

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Straße -> STRASSE -> strasse

ManishEarth

ßßßßßß

AviD

@Simon part british, yes. Part scottish, too.

Simon

ßß

ManishEarth

18:32

Wierstrauß

Simon

@AviD Really?

Thomas Pornin

@ManishEarth Yep, the uppercase of "i" in Turkish is "İ", not "I"

ManishEarth

@ThomasPornin ah

kalina

@ManishEarth I was taught this character was being retired in the 90s, is this actually still in use?

ManishEarth

@kalina No clue. I see it in mathematics textbooks/sites though

AviD

18:32

@ThomasPornin another thing I often discover in client's code, is when they refer to OS users or groups by name. E.g. expecting the group name to be "Administrators" on a non-English system....

ManishEarth

And I use it to annoy others

Thomas Pornin

@ManishEarth Since it happens with a character which is plain ASCII, it is rather easy to trigger.

AviD

@Simon Lived in a mostly British neighborhood for good 12 years, and my best friend is Scottish.

he sounds exactly like @RoryMcCune.

Scott Pack

@Simon She decided to be a Southern Belle.

Simon

@AviD Wow. Why are you in a tier-country now?

Was too easy, soz.

ManishEarth

18:34

Why does google think that ß is the same as beta?

Simon

@ScottPack She's already that fancy?

Thomas Pornin

@ManishEarth It's not Google, it is them humans.

ManishEarth

@ThomasPornin And why do humans think that?

Humans are crazy

Thomas Pornin

Google completes the request based on other popular requests which start identically.

ManishEarth

Yeah, I know, but when I clicked one it linked me to the beta-pages

no ß on the search results, just beta

Scott Pack

18:35

@Simon Tell me about it.

AviD

@Simon I... dont know what that means.

Thomas Pornin

@ManishEarth ß is in latin-1, thus easier to achieve on a keyboard than β

ManishEarth

@ThomasPornin ah

Simon

@AviD Me neither. It's ok.

ManishEarth

So Google knows that people mix the two up

Thomas Pornin

18:36

@ManishEarth Google knows everything ! Get used to it.

ManishEarth

nooooooo

Adnan

@ManishEarth To be honest, I was quite surprised that I even saw any room. I expected the link would appear only for people in this room, in this room.

ManishEarth

@Adnan The sidebar

Simon

@AviD I'm still waiting for the pillow picture.

AviD

@Simon Pretend I responded with something crude here. I can't be bothered.

Simon

18:41

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO, LIAR.

You will be known as the liar FOREVER.

AviD

@Simon hmm?

Simon

You said you would post that picture a long time ago.

I'm so happy that I remember useless stuff like this but when it's about something that I should remember, better luck next time you idiot.

David Freitag

@Simon Quality on Google play is impeccable.

Simon

@DavidFreitag le fu-

David Freitag

@Simon gesundheit.

AviD

18:45

@Simon what picture?

Simon

Was that "cheers"?

AviD

ohhh, you talking about the pillow in the wall? That is doable.

Simon

Yes!

AviD

remind me tomorrow when there is more light.

or next week when I have more time.

not sure its really of much interest though...

havent decorated the pillow with a shark's face yet.

Or a lazer.

Simon

Dude, it's been a while. It should already be awesome.

Or very dusty.

AviD

18:48

@Simon possibly. Just dont have enough time.

I have a pile of papers on my desk from almost 2 months ago, havent had time to deal with them.

Lucas Kauffman

@ManishEarth cooling the beer now

AviD

busybusybusy

ManishEarth

@LucasKauffman :)

AviD

hmm, looks like there was some more drama here this evening.

Simon

@AviD I remember 2 months ago, when it was still hot outside.

AviD

18:49

Always when I step out....

tylerl

@AviD Interesting, isn't it.

Scott Pack

@Simon We had snow last night.

David Freitag

Oh @AviD, it's not that i don't think you see everything, it's just that tapping you on the head with a ping would make things easier ;]

@ScottPack Don't you swear at me.

AviD

@tylerl not really, no.

Simon

@ScottPack Ouch.

tylerl

18:51

@AviD Not the drama itself; the fact that it keep re-appearing

AviD

@ScottPack this is our month and half of beautiful weather, and I'm missing it.

@tylerl meh. I have teenage daughters, I'm used to drama. This is nothing.

tylerl

@AviD It would be much more expected if this room was peopled by teenage girls

AviD

@tylerl isn't it?

David Freitag

@tylerl Wait, you mean you aren't all teenage girls? Oh crap, wrong room.

tylerl

Though developmental psychologists say that boys catch up to the girls about 3 years later. So perhaps we do.

@DavidFreitag The Internet:

Where the men are men

The women are women

and the teenage girls are FBI agents

David Freitag

18:54

And 13 year old girls are FBI?

Hah

Simon

How old did I say I was again?

Scott Pack

@Simon Tell me about it.

Simon

@ScottPack My Subaru is already complaining about the non-snowy roads though.

AviD

@tylerl isnt that "the women are men"?

David Freitag

I never want snow to fall again. At least as long as i am living where i am.

tylerl

18:57

@AviD The problem is you never know

AviD

heh

Scott Pack

@Simon That's your problem.

David Freitag

Hm, Canada without snow...? The world must be in serious trouble.

Simon

@DavidFreitag To be fair, it's October.

Rare are the Halloweens where kids get candies by sled.

David Freitag

@Simon To be fair I WILL use a flamethrower to shovel my driveway this year.

Simon

18:59

@DavidFreitag Will you really? Because that would be really efficient.

Transcript for