The DMZ

tylerl

17:00

@AJHenderson if we're going to require outbound authentication universally, then we've got to seriously re-think what an email identity even is

Simon

Courageous men discussing about SMTP and TLS when The Bear just entered the room.

AJ Henderson

@tylerl well I'm thinking authenticating on the inbound to ensure that it is coming from an authentic domain

tylerl

Right now, DKIM is about as good as our identity model can support

AJ Henderson

ie, I shouldn't be able to setup my own mail server and send mail from whitehouse.gov

or not even setup a server

just throw the message out to the interwebs

tylerl

@AJHenderson SPF/DKIM takes care of that today.

AJ Henderson

17:02

yeah, I know

that's what I'm saying, we have existing tech for it if we actually used it universally

but currently we don't

tylerl

@AJHenderson Which we totally could do, except the universally-federated model really makes change difficult

but it's also why email still exists

AJ Henderson

@tylerl precisely

tylerl

and isn't wholly owned by the the University of Southern California

Thomas Pornin

@AviD @AJHenderson: searchable encrypted data is a hot topic but there are good reasons why it cannot work efficiently.

AJ Henderson

my point was just that SMTP doesn't have to die, we have the tech to make it better, we just need people to use it

@ThomasPornin yeah, that was basically the entire discussion

tylerl

17:05

@ThomasPornin kinda defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

Thomas Pornin

For instance, traffic analysis can pinpoint which data element is retrieved, and track it, unless the system reads the whole database for each request

AJ Henderson

since it is a complex problem that shouldn't be able to work efficiently without some very new and fancy math

well efficiently and securely

Thomas Pornin

Now if you accept something inefficient then you can do some amusing things

e.g. the All-or-Nothing-Disclosure-Of-Secrets protocols.

Nothing worth the effort for databases, though.

What CipherCloud promises can work, if you assume a specific feature that they took care not to confirm or deny. Namely, that they have a copy of all the keys.

Generically: they host your data, they encrypt it when stored, they decrypt it on the fly, and they run the search queries for you.

As long as you trust them, that's fine.

Of course, their claim that "security is not compromised" is a bit of a stretch.

tylerl

@ThomasPornin "security is not further compromised"

CodesInChaos

I'm pretty sure they simply store the index on the gateway

Thomas Pornin

17:10

@CodesInChaos "CipherCloud's SSE technology leverages its gateway architecture to provide secure local index and search operations while sending the strongly encrypted data to the cloud and protecting it from all external threats."

CodesInChaos

The gateway is on the client's network, not in the cloud

Thomas Pornin

They are even quite explicit about it.

CodesInChaos

so having all keys on the gateway is pretty much by-design

Thomas Pornin

In fact that's more a remote backup solution than anything else.

Lucas Kauffman

@Simon did you like that base drop?

CodesInChaos

17:12

their old versions were not. Those were a mix of third party cloud applications (gmail, salesforce, etc.) together with a word based substitution cipher.

Lucas Kauffman

Ah nvm read it :p

Simon

:P

Thomas Pornin

@CodesInChaos Ah yes, I remember it. With Chinese characters to "look encrypted". Good times, good times.

CodesInChaos

Seny Kamara's blog has some interesting articles about searchable encryption.

@ThomasPornin I think "looking encrypted" was mainly a side-effect of the compact representation a larger unicode space offers.

I know some people who're thinking about a Base60000 encoding to shorten crypto tokens.

Lucas Kauffman

le me is fascinated by the crypto bosses discussing

Simon

17:20

lulz

When you don't understand what they say, I hope you know what to reply.

Lucas Kauffman

if I don't understand I just ask them to explain :p

Simon

Oh.

I'd rather type "nurdz".

Adnan

@Xander Now nothing can separate us. Nyahahahahaha

Xander

@Adnan LOL

Simon

wot

Adnan

17:24

@Simon None of your beeswax!

Simon

ok

Adnan

@Xander It kept nagging me "Oh you know that and that and that and that" then I decided to finally do it.

I did it to @Scott as well.

Xander

@Adnan Speaking of, I was trying to figure out how to endorse @TildalWave for "Space Travel" the other day, but couldn't find a way to do it or not.

Adnan

@Xander You can endorse him for 'Space Technology'.

Simon

I hate homework questions.

Xander

17:28

@Adnan Interesting. I'll have to go and see if I can find that then.

@Simon We often hate the things that most reflect our own inner beings.

Simon

Does that mean I'm a homework?

Adnan

@Xander I've just endorsed him for it. Once he adds it to his profile, you can easily endorse him for it as well.

Xander

@Simon I think so.

Simon

I honestly had no idea.

Xander

@Simon I'm sorry to have exposed you to this sad truth.

@Adnan That, I am definitely capable of figuring out how to do.

Simon

17:31

@Adnan Did you know this too?

Adnan

@Simon That you're a homework?

Simon

Yes.

Adnan

@Simon Dude, everybody knows that.

Here, go to my Security profile

Adnan, Finland

17.3k 4 50 86

Simon

Wow... What kind of homework?

Adnan

Check the "about me" section.

Simon

17:33

REALLY???? It's the first time that I see this in your profile!

Adnan

@Simon Dude, it's been there for ages.

Simon

Am I like a cool homework that takes 5 minutes to do and is super easy or an hard one that takes you 2 weeks of intense work?

tylerl

@Simon or the kind that should only take 5 minutes, except it's so poorly worded and ambiguous that you have to spend hours just trying to figure out what the question is

Simon

@tylerl Oh man, that's the worst type.

Adnan

@Simon Dude, you're like the kind of semester-long homework that everybody hates.

Simon

17:37

@Adnan OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhh no :(

Just tear me up.

Adnan

Ahh.. everything is right with the universe again. I'm growing back my beard, and we're making fun of @Simon

Simon

Man, I keep dancing like a retard even though I'm at work.

This is not gonna end well.

Adnan

@Simon You mean you're acting like yourself?

Simon

o

Adnan

You know what, I didn't think I'd say this, but I sliiiightly miss that pony girl making fun of @Simon

tylerl

17:42

@Adnan is she gone then?

Simon

You know what? Me too...

tylerl

chat thing says seen 41s ago.

David Freitag

I don't. Not even a little.

Simon

@kalina ily

Adnan

@Simon What's 'ily'?

kalina

17:43

you're so flammable

sets fire to @Simon

Simon

@kalina You have no idea how flammable I am.

@Adnan I bet you can figure it out.

kalina

you could be the least flammable thing in the world and you'd still go off like thermite if I set fire to you

Simon

^ @DavidFreitag How can you not like her?

Adnan

@Simon Sooo..?

Simon

She's as crazy as you are with fire.

And thermites.

@Adnan Whaaaat?

tylerl

17:44

@Adnan wtf?

David Freitag

lol

kalina

it's ok guys, @Adnan now has that link in his history

Adnan

@Simon @tylerl Catches fire quickly?

tylerl

female starts talking, @Adnan goes straight to penises.

4

Simon

LOL

Adnan

17:46

Well, that backfired at me very quickly.

David Freitag

That's what he said?

tylerl

@Adnan how the hell could it go any other way?

Simon

@Adnan Do you really not know what "ily" stands for?

Adnan

@Simon Not a clue

Simon

@DavidFreitag Eeeeewwwww.

@Adnan I love you.

Adnan

17:47

@Simon I know you do

Simon

.

David Freitag

@Simon Dunno, just don't.

Adnan

@Simon How can anybody?

Simon

You guys.

Adnan

@Simon No no no no.. don't say that, it summons @Scott

David Freitag

17:49

@Simon At least I'm being honest. I think we can all agree @Adnan is in love with her.

Simon

@Adnan I want him back.

@DavidFreitag We can definitely agree on that.

David Freitag

@Simon What did you scare him away? Or is he tied up in your closet?

Adnan

@DavidFreitag Because, you know, there's nothing more attractive than a stranger teenager who likes ponies and isn't able to be unpretentious for more than 1 minute.

David Freitag

@Adnan Apparently

Simon

DAYUM.

@DavidFreitag I think it all started when I posted a picture with my buddies. He got jealous and all.

Adnan

17:51

@Simon Of your buddies? Have you seen your buddies?

David Freitag

@Simon It's like @kalina is eye candy for @Adnan, every time she shows up he gets agitated.

Simon

@Adnan Do you see invisible? I don't.

@DavidFreitag Haha, it's funny because it's true.

kalina

and that's without even posting a picture of myself

Adnan

@DavidFreitag Is that what eye candy mean?

David Freitag

@Simon I took some lsd once and started seeing sounds.

Adnan

17:52

@kalina Good god, please don't.

Simon

@DavidFreitag Dude!!! I need to see sound!

Adnan

We don't want more people to leave the DMZ.

David Freitag

@Simon lsd all teh way man.

kalina

@Adnan pff, it would become one of the most viewed pieces of transcript in the history of SE

Synesthesia

Synesthesia (also spelled synæsthesia or synaesthesia, plural synesthesiæ or synæsthesiæ), from the ancient Greek (syn), "together," and (aisthēsis), "," is a neurological condition in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive pathway leads to automatic, involuntary experiences in a second sensory or cognitive pathway. People who report such experiences are known as synesthetes. Recently, difficulties have been recognized in finding an adequate definition of synesthesia, as many different phenomena have been covered by this term and in many cases the term synesthesia ("union of sens...

David Freitag

@Adnan Who left?

Simon

17:52

@DavidFreitag If you guarantee me that I will see sound, I'd do it.

kalina

@Simon "we see sounds, taste shapes, hear colour"

Adnan

@DavidFreitag Mellon, that dude with 'Z' in his name, Scott, etc.

Simon

@kalina Can I get a tl;dr version?

@kalina Oh cool.

David Freitag

@Simon I can guarantee when you wake up you will have no clue where you are, or have been for the past two and a half weeks

Simon

@DavidFreitag WEEKS?

David Freitag

17:53

@Adnan Scott left??? Whyfor?

kalina

@Simon a decent acid trip will take you out for ages yeah

Adnan

@Simon sweetie, never listen to @David says.

Simon

Hey, a few hours would be more than enough.

David Freitag

@Simon You aren't doing it right unless you and a swimming pool full of people go with you on that trip.

kalina

it's more of a "book time off work" thing

Adnan

17:55

Guys, please stop encouraging the usage of illegal substances.

kalina

this isn't encouragement

this is education

David Freitag

But seriously though, don't do it. It eats holes in your brain.

Adnan

@kalina Wasn't directed at you

kalina

the first couple of trips will be fine

Simon

@DavidFreitag That's a downer.

kalina

17:56

but its very much a state of mind thing, if you hate life, don't do something that will grab that with both hands and take you on a journey with it

you want to feel happy before you take you

otherwise you're potentially opening yourself up to the worst experience of your life

David Freitag

@Simon Yep. They have done scans on people who use things like lsd frequently. Usually you see more than 50% mass missing

Simon

@DavidFreitag The heck.

kalina

it's like the matrix, if you die while on an acid trip, you're dead

David Freitag

It's like slowly giving yourself a lobotomy.

Simon

@kalina How do I know if I like life?!?!?

I've never been dead so I don't know for shit.

kalina

17:57

@Simon its hard to explain

same deal with mushrooms too

Simon

If I'm having the best time of my life every time I go to a music show and all I took was a few beers, it means that I don't need any substance to make me happy.

M'vy

hey

Simon

SUP FRENCH BOI

kalina

2

M'vy

All good

kalina

18:01

I have caused so much noise on Arqade meta today

Simon

Today? I assume that you cause a shitload of noise everyday.

kalina

...

I actually normally avoid taking part in meta

people downvote me on meta just for being me

as demonstrated when I posted one of my questions today and got a downvote within 7 seconds

tylerl

@kalina awwwww'

kalina

the irony was no lost on me

Simon

See how you jump to a conclusion with your triple dots. You should ask me why I said that.

David Freitag

18:03

@kalina I'm sure that was the only reason.

kalina

I specifically put in the question "If you disagree we should have a consistent community agreed format for tag wikis, downvote the question."

so basically, people on arqade thing consistency is bad

Adnan

@tylerl If a brofist was socially acceptable I'd brofist you now.

tylerl

@Adnan gross

Adnan

@tylerl :|

David Freitag

@Adnan Who says it isn't?

Adnan

18:05

I didn't think of that until you said "gross".

@DavidFreitag I don't know, I always assumed a man of my age shouldn't engage in such activities.

David Freitag

@Adnan Pish posh.

Simon

@Xander Holy elephant balls, you have a lot of reviews today.

kalina

@DavidFreitag what does this mean?

Simon

@Adnan Nobody knows what your damn age is.

David Freitag

That's the sort of attitude that can keep you from some of the more fun activities in life.

Xander

18:06

@Simon Not really. I'm still in single digits.

Simon

@Xander C'mon, the second best has half of your total.

Adnan

@DavidFreitag I had to Google that

@Simon and nobody ever will.

David Freitag

@Adnan heh

kalina

►

Adnan

@DavidFreitag In that case, brofist

kalina

18:08

epic rap battles of histooooooorrrrrrrrrryyyyyyy!

Xander

@Simon There have been days where I have had 80% of all the first post reviews. And as far as I can remember, my highest single day total is 13, which I've had several times.

David Freitag

@kalina We get more alike every day, i swear to god.

kalina

@DavidFreitag I thought you disliked me

Simon

@Xander Well, you're not the youngster you used to be.

kalina

do you practice self hate?

David Freitag

18:08

@kalina I never said that.

@kalina Maybe

Xander

@Simon This is true. On the other hand, it's been true for a long time.

Simon

@Xander Awww, I'm crying now.

David Freitag

I simply said i didn't miss you, @kalina

kalina

sounds like dislike

Adnan

@DavidFreitag Because you always feel that she's with you?

Simon

18:10

@Adnan Rofl.

kalina

@Adnan this would have been an evil line if @DavidFreitag had said it

would have left me completely confused

Adnan

@kalina @David and lines? Heah!

kalina

mmm lines

Simon

@DavidFreitag You missed your chance, bro.

Xander

@Simon Now more than double.

Adnan

18:12

Ding ding ding.. let's-get-naked-in-a-small-hot-room time!!

Simon

@Xander Haha, I got the late answer because of that :P

Adnan

Later, everybody.

and @kalina

Simon

@Adnan With boys.

Adnan

@Simon and girls.

Simon

@Adnan I'm jelly.

kalina

18:13

he said girls, not women

TildalWave

@Xander icons ... in ... spaaaaceeeee! :)

Xander

@Simon Yeah, I'm ignore those for now. My lead in that queue is well established, so I can afford to let them go.

David Freitag

@Adnan I'd get naked in support, but my coworkers might get upset.

Xander

@TildalWave Ha ha ha....Yes!

kalina

and here's @TildalWave to edit 11811204 and add "with boys" at the end

Simon

18:14

nou

TildalWave

@kalina I didn't say they were not alpha transparent, did I? :P

tylerl

Has anyone else ever heard of a transparent HTTP proxy being called an "Elite Proxy"? Sounds very script-kiddie

TildalWave

isn't that just one product?

tylerl

@TildalWave Reading this: PythonProxy.py

David Freitag

@tylerl You mean "1337 pr0xy" ? That sounds more script kiddie to me..

TildalWave

18:17

@tylerl Spanish? Seriously?

tylerl

@TildalWave think it's portuguese.

"Atenção" is not spanish

Anyway, it's close enough that if you know any latin-based languages you can pretty easily get the gist of it

Simon

Yeah.

TildalWave

well it's some funny mix of it so I'd say Brasilian

tylerl

"they're all the same"

most likely

Simon

Qual a diferença entre um proxy Elite, Anónimo e Transparente?

TildalWave

18:18

I think I've heard of "Elite Proxy" before but referred to as some product, not a type of a proxy... that's a new one for me

Simon

No idea why I posted that.

tylerl

@Simon Yeah. he's saying that "Um proxy elite é totalmente anónimo" which sounds a bit overblown

Simon

Haha.

tylerl

even though I don't speak protuguese

Simon

Funcionalidades futuras:+

Look at us being good at other languages.

David Freitag

18:20

So what happened to @ScottPack?

tylerl

@Simon so cultured

Simon

@DavidFreitag I don't know I'm very worried.

TildalWave

I understand it well enough even if I can't really place it geographically... but understanding the language doesn't help me understand its contents, sadly

Simon

@tylerl I'm definitely adding "Fluent in Portuguese" in my CV.

TildalWave

@Simon ??

Simon

18:22

@TildalWave I'm joking around but usually he's in here throughout the day from Monday to Thursday.

I'm a creep.

tylerl

@Simon that's a little weird

TildalWave

could be related :P

Simon

Haha.

I hate these damn crypto questions: security.stackexchange.com/questions/44284/…

I hate a lot of stuff today.

tylerl

@Simon kinda looks like trolling

Simon

But he/she/it said "thank you for answering my question"

It can't be trolling!

TildalWave

18:31

@Simon there should be a "WTF" close reason

tylerl

"This question appears to be off-topic because LOL WAT??!?"

Simon

@TildalWave unclear what you're asking pretty much is.

TildalWave

@Simon Not strong enough tho

Simon

True.

TildalWave

too polite

And FWIW I think it is a form of trolling when someone puts so little effort in asking questions.

Why should anyone bother answering it?

tylerl

18:33

I've never heard of a dickson cryptosystem". He's a cryptographer, but that's like saying "a schneier cryptosystem"

TildalWave

there's some word for it...

Simon

Or like a "Simon stupid system"

TildalWave

hmmm what's it called, this kind of trolling?

Simon

@TildalWave trolololo

TildalWave

hehe no no ... some nickname for it that I've seen it mentioned in TL

tylerl

18:34

I like the fact that "unclear what you are asking" can also logically mean "your Google Translate output was a bit off"

Simon

A bit off.

Xander

I voted to close this one as "Unclear what you're asking."

-1

Q: American propaganda in our Computer Systems

my assumption: is there any art propaganda from America in our Computer Systems. In different forms, I would say frequency, voltage that disturbs our thinking and or our body, or my favourite is sounds and loops, it should be so quiet and just loud enough to pass through the unconsciousness. A...

network

But there's a non-zero chance it's just weird spam.

TildalWave

@tylerl OK I think I found a paper on what he's asking ... warning - PDF: dml.cz/bitstream/handle/10338.dmlcz/129130/…

Simon

@Xander Oh what the fuck. I refused to read that one until now.

@Xander How many flags do you have?

Xander

@Simon Helpful flags? 227, and one MIA.

Simon

18:40

Nice.

I have 172, which is not too bad.

AviD

@Xander I voted to close as "wait till the smoke clears and ask again".

Xander

@Simon Not bad at all. Your accumulation will drop off significantly when you hit 3,000 rep, but I'll bet you'll pass me in total flags before you get there.

@AviD LOL.

Simon

@Xander I'm not planning to get more rep for now, hehe.

TildalWave

He prolly meant pro-American propaganda?

"voltage that disturbs our thinking and or our body"

if only

Xander

@TildalWave Yeah. In the form of something about voltage, and subliminal looped noises, and I have NO idea what he meant by his sentence about languages and compilers, and he's worried that they're going to come take him away for asking about it all on the open Interwebs.

I have to say that I'm personally unfamiliar with propaganda expressed as voltage.

TildalWave

18:57

Electroconvulsive therapy?

tylerl

That's my favorite question today

the best bit is "Can we write about it or will they get us"

Transcript for