The DMZ

Xander

15:00

@TerryChia I'm a fan too.

Simon

My Canadian ass thought there were no Tim's in the USA.

Scott Pack

I saw several more the other day.

Xander

@Simon There are up north.

Simon

@Xander That would make sense.

Xander

Or north-ish, in @ScottPack's case.

Scott Pack

15:01

@Xander I actually may live in the Constitution Free Zone now.

Xander

@ScottPack Oh yeah? How's that?

Scott Pack

Yuppers. By moving to my State's capital I freely gave up my constitutional rights.

Well, the 4th at least.

There's a strip of land that extends from the US national border wherein "routine searches" are exempted from the protections granted by the 4th amendment.

Xander

@Simon My in-laws live in Southern Ontario, so I spend a fair amount of time in Tim Horton populated regions.

Scott Pack

It just so happens that the strip is 100 miles wide.

Simon

@Xander I hope you realize how lucky you are.

Xander

15:05

@ScottPack Well isn't that just dandy.

Scott Pack

So legally the Border Patrol could set up a checkpoint on my residential street and conduct warrantless searches.

Rory Alsop

@Scott - why is this zone needed. the 4th amendment doesn't exclude routine searches anyway!

Terry Chia

Am I the only one who finds repairability scores for tablets stupid? ifixit.com/Teardown/Kindle+Fire+HDX+7-Inch+Teardown/18351/1

AviD

@RoryAlsop police need a warrant to search your person, vehicle, home, etc.

The TSA does not.

Rory Alsop

The 4th amendment has an exception built in for border searches

Scott Pack

15:08

@AviD Not necessarily for a car.

There is a reduced expectation of privacy in a vehicle so they only need probable cause.

@RoryAlsop That's kind of my point.

AviD

@ScottPack "not necessarily"? in general it does apply.

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop The "border" is defined as a 100 mile strip along the national boundaries.

Rory Alsop

ahhhhh - gotcha, sorry

AviD

@ScottPack oh sorry, right - probable cause does apply here, but also to your person.

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop In which case a warrantless search of my home could be performed.

Rory Alsop

15:10

yep - I understand now

Simon

@ScottPack I'd perform a warrantless search of you.

Terry Chia

@Simon That's @Adnan-level creepy right there.

Simon

@TerryChia Yeah well, he's not here today so someone needs to keep the creepy level even.

Scott Pack

@AviD Affirmative.

Rory Alsop

I was going to say 'crazy merkins' but it's worse here in the UK.
Well, not worse - we don't have guns,but still pretty bad

Scott Pack

15:12

The border exception removes even the "probable cause" requirement, under the assumption that such searches are "random" but does not require that they be random.

Simon

'MERICA

AviD

@ScottPack is that the basis that the TSA clings to?

Scott Pack

@AviD Here's the quote from the wikipedias. It matches what I've learned elsewhere and appears to be well cited.

> Searches conducted at the United States border or the equivalent of the border (such as an international airport) may be conducted without a warrant or probable cause subject to the border search exception.[98][99] Most border searches may be conducted entirely at random, without any level of suspicion, pursuant to U.S. Customs and Border Protection plenary search authority.

> However, searches that intrude upon a traveler's personal dignity and privacy interests, such as strip and body cavity searches, must be supported by "reasonable suspicion."[98][100] The U.S. Courts of Appeals for the Fourth and Ninth circuits have ruled that information on a traveler's electronic materials, including personal files on a laptop computer, may be searched at random, without suspicion.[98][101]

Xander

@RoryAlsop Don't have guns is in and of itself worse.

Scott Pack

Meh. Have guns...don't have guns...it's all the same to me.

AviD

15:15

@ScottPack okay, so as a flimsy basis its clear. However, there are a couple of obvious oversteps there.

Polynomial

@ScottPack this

AviD

"International" - they feel free to do the same for domestic flights.

Polynomial

we'll find ways to kill each other anyway.

AviD

"searches that intrude upon a traveler's personal dignity and privacy interests" -

Scott Pack

For some definitions of dignity and privacy.

4

AviD

15:17

@ScottPack I think there would be some argument over shoes, but not the peeping tom machines.

Scott Pack

Don't forget, there have been cases of TSA agents quite literally fingering a woman during a "routine search". If any actions were actually taken against the agent in question it was kept private.

AviD

though there would be grounds for a case to prevent anything subjective.

@ScottPack right, its the government's monoploy overstepping again, because they can.

Because if you argue - you aint getting on that flight.

@ScottPack the random laptop searches - they cant coerce passwords and keys, right? According to that ruling.

Scott Pack

Now, there is no requirement that an airport use the TSA for their security purposes.

AviD

@ScottPack WAIT WHAT?

Scott Pack

@AviD That's still an open question whether or not divulging keys or passwords is considered self-incrimination.

@AviD Right. The airports are required, by the FAA, to meet minimum security requirements as defined by the TSA. They are, however, totally permitted to hire any company they want.

AviD

15:20

@ScottPack whoa. shocking news to me.

Scott Pack

I think the TSA is just cheaper than everyone else and it's easier to prove you're following TSA requirements if you're using the TSA.

AviD

know of any airports that dont use TSA?

@ScottPack oh please. The TSA cant prove they follow TSA requirements.

too ambiguous.

but cheaper, sure - though I am sure traffic would increase a substantial amount over other nearby airports, if they went sans TSA.

Scott Pack

@AviD Within the past few years I've every now an then seen airports saying that they're going to use someone else, but I'm not sure off hand which and whether they actually did.

Polynomial

a lot of them did pull backscatter scanners though

Scott Pack

Oh, here's an article talking about the TSA requirement.

nytimes.com/2012/03/16/us/…

Apparently until 2001 you were required to use them, but then last year another law made it easier to get approval to not use them.

> Sixteen of the nation’s 450 airports use private contractors, including larger ones like San Francisco International Airport as well as smaller ones like Jackson Hole Airport in Wyoming.

Wait, so the TSA has only existed since 2001?

Xander

15:29

@ScottPack Yes. It was created after 9/11.

Airport security was a private, non-governmental affair prior to that.

Scott Pack

Intresting. I had no idea.

AviD

@ScottPack I was in SAX. It was like a Rube Goldberg machine.

Getting off the plane, I had to collect and recheck my suitcase twice.

Xander

@ScottPack Air travel was actually reasonably pleasant pre-9/11.

AviD

@Xander well, except for the constant bombings and hijackings, of course.

Scott Pack

@Xander I had only flown a handful of times prior to that.

AviD

15:34

That's why we needed the TSA.

Scott Pack

@Xander On a trip to England in 1998 I do remember having more problems returning to the US than leaving or entering the UK.

Xander

@AviD AUA is the same way. It's like the TSA's version of some hellish Disney adventure ride.

AviD

heh.

Xander

@AviD Ha. Right. That.

@ScottPack Ah, yeah, I forget, you were still fairly young then. (Not that I'm that much older, but still.)

Terry Chia

Ah fuck, some special characters in my blog broke my RSS feed. :( infosecstudent.com/feed.xml

Scott Pack

15:37

That's why I try to only fly in tiny airports. I really loved going through HTS. LCK is an acceptable replacement.

Polynomial

Amsterdam airport, hilariously, is the one place I got hassle

Terry Chia

It happens because I am trying to print something like Welcome, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBB+b��C BBBBBBBBBBBBBB+b��C in my blog.

Scott Pack

@Xander I really only started flying when my parents moved to Florida, prior to that I could drive most anywhere.

Xander

@ScottPack That's fairly typical. That's even the case crossing back and forth over the border when we visit my in-laws. They have a harder time getting into Canada than into the U.S., and we have a far harder time getting back into the U.S. than getting into Canada.

Terry Chia

Any ideas on fixing it?

Polynomial

15:38

I was wearing a pair of these shoes: newrockdirect.co.uk/m-138-c1.html

and put them through the scanner

Scott Pack

@Xander In this case it was because I had a folding knife in my checked suitcase so I wasn't allowed in the "sterile" part of the airport.

Rory Alsop

I remember flying a lot of long haul back in the early eighties - sometimes I would land at airports with not just no security, but no staff at all. Ascension Island was fun though - lots of US military who really didn't care what you did. On one flight I got to pilot the plane for 3 hours, which was much more boring than I expected (I wasn't allowed to wiggle it or do stunts :-(

AviD

@Polynomial worst for me was frankfurt.

Polynomial

had no probs getting into the country, but on the way back from Norway via Amsterdam the security guard started talking to her boss

AviD

dem germans still be hating on us jewz.

Polynomial

15:39

and was trying to work out if I could bludgeon someone with the spikes on the boots

Scott Pack

@Xander A fellow escorted me from the customs checkpoint 15 feet to an unmarked door (still in the international terminal) that opened directly into the main lobby.

Polynomial

my response was "I somehow think if I came running at someone with a giant shoe they might notice before I got there."

Xander

@RoryAlsop LOL! That's awesome.

Rory Alsop

worst for me - Cleveland. Soooo boring. Worst for security since 11/9 (sorry - I'm European so I do it the right way round) was JFK - they were thoroughly annoying. Tel Aviv was much more relaxed and practical with their security. Sure - it was intrusive, but only in areas which made sense

AviD

@RoryAlsop like your arse.

Scott Pack

15:40

@RoryAlsop I haven't gone to the Cleveland airport yet.

AviD

@RoryAlsop the one thing I really like about the TA security - its consistent.

Rory Alsop

@AviD - I left that one there for you.
@Scott - it has nothing exciting about it. It's a bit like Canberra in Australia

AviD

In US and in EU each airport does something different, on different days, or whatever.

Xander

@ScottPack Boringest hub airport I've ever had to spend time in.

Scott Pack

@Xander You should go to CVG sometime.

@Xander Their idea of excitement is a picture of a pig with wings.

Xander

15:45

@ScottPack LOL. But is it a hub? I mean, for sheer boredom, the airport in Abilene, TX has a pretty outstanding offering, unless you count watching the baggage guy throw checked luggage through the rollup door separating the tarmac from the terminal as entertainment. (Not big enough for a baggage conveyor.)

Scott Pack

@Xander At one time CVG was a Delta hub.

Xander

@ScottPack Ah! Ok then. That counts.

Scott Pack

@Xander That's pretty much what HTS is like. it does have a conveyer, but you can see the tarmac from either end. It's a single terminal with 3 gates. Gate 1 is used for surface loading to the front of the plane, Gate 3 is used for surface loading to the rear of the plane, and Gate 2 isn't used.

Xander

@ScottPack Awesome. Yeah, that's super similar to Abilene. 2 surface gates there.

Scott Pack

I love airports like that. Sure they're boring...but so relaxing to go through.

You look around and every single person you see is on your same flight. No rush to get through security, no jockying for seats near your gate, etc.

AviD

15:51

yeah I hate going through hectic airports. its annoying enough as it is, I just want to get from A to B with no fuss, and fill in the deadtime pleasantly.

hahaha @Iszi this one's for you! securityreactions.tumblr.com/post/64115831789/…

Scott Pack

@Xander It looks like ABI might actually be bigger than HTS! It certainly has more runways.

Rory Alsop

London Airport (not the ones in London, England, but the International Airport on Eday in Orkney) is a lovely airport. When landing you make 2 passes - the first to scare off the sheep! And if you want your cases you carry 'em yourself:

Eday Airport

Eday Airport is located on Eday in Orkney, Scotland. Due to its location close to the Bay of London it is known locally as London Airport. The Bay of London may have been so called because of puffins breeding there: Old Norse lundi = "puffin", Old Norse á Lundunum = "at the puffins". Eday Aerodrome has a CAA Ordinary Licence (Number P573) that allows flights for the public transport of passengers or for flying instruction as authorised by the licensee (Orkney Islands Council). The aerodrome is not licensed for night use. Airlines and destinations References External links *[http:...

we used to fly from there to Norway, the Faeroes and also to Scotland

AviD

@RoryAlsop ah, Eilat airport is/was like that.

well, except for the sheep.

in Eilat its the sunbathers.

Rory Alsop

first pass to get them out the way, yes. Is that what the hovercraft on the Black Sea forgot to do?

I wish I had taken a screenshot before Procrastination was deleted - I meant to but just never got around to it. This is all I have left of it:

area51.stackexchange.com/badges/202/radical?userid=27680

AviD

@RoryAlsop haha of course

Rory Alsop

16:03

time to try and use public transport....<sigh> can't wait until the weather gets icy enough that everyone gets off the roads and I can drive happily again

later all

Simon

16:16

Free flag: security.stackexchange.com/questions/43956/…

Rory Alsop

16:47

Done

Simon

Thanks. There are a bunch of other shitty questions/duplicates.

Well a bunch, I count 2.

Rory Alsop

not my commute - the train is only just starting to move - but that flag. Sorted and deleted.

Flag them and I'll bag them

Simon

They're flagged.

Rory McCune

hey @Polynomial novel experience for you. I was holding you up as a role model at a talk I did today :)

as an example of innovative ways to get started in pen. testing :)

Scott Pack

17:02

Damnit @RoryAlsop! Stop deleting stuff before I flag it!

Simon

@ThomasPornin Oh please, don't answer questions where answers can be found all over the section. Don't be that nice.

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune Back alley blowjobs?

Simon

@ScottPack That escalated quickly.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack where did that even come from ?!? here was me telling students today about what a nice place Sec.SE is and now they're going to turn up and see that :op

Simon

@ScottPack I'm catching up by the way: 157!

Scott Pack

17:05

@RoryMcCune I honestly have no idea.

So I just watched the most recent episode of Marvel Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

In it they say, several times, how there are no documented cases of ESP or Telepathy.

This is the same universe that has the X-Men which contains several telepaths.

Some of whom have been Avengers.

Simon

nurd

@Adnan Stop editing the whole world.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack and in the marvel comics shield has a stack of telpaths!

@Simon Sorry but if you're not at least partially nurdy, you're probably in a minority here :)

2

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune I have to admit, the majority of my comic nerddom was the X-Men stuff.

I figured they would have, but didn't know.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack ahh Marvel Unlimited on the iPad is a helluva drug. Access to large swathes of the back-catalog for a monthly fee :)

Scott Pack

Granted, the recent movies, and this tv show, are in the Cinematic Universe, so I wonder if in that canon no telepaths exist. Or they haven't identified them.

Rory McCune

17:17

I've picked up quite a few series just 'cause they're there ..

@ScottPack hmm so obv. x-men movie universe has them. yeah I guess that in avengers/hulk/thor/captain america/shield movie univ. I don't recall seeing one..

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune The x-men movies so far haven't exactly been that great. The Marvel Cinematic have been pretty internally consistent, and have been doing very well.

I wonder if they'll end up branching out past the avengers.

So far I've only seen the first Iron Man. I should see some of the others.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack well guardians of the galaxy has wrapped I know..

Scott Pack

Yes, and it's existing within the same film canon. Cool.

Rory McCune

slightly surprised as it's a relatively lesser known line but it seems to be leading to a movie with Thanos at some point

so makes logical sense...

so I guess they might do an infinity guantlet based one some time which would be v. cool

Scott Pack

Ok, that would be awesome.

Rory McCune

17:22

yeah they've got the CGI to pull it off now so it could be pretty epic..

Scott Pack

Some of the Eternals story lines could be neat, but man would that be....weird to try to shoehorn into a film.

Rory McCune

yeah the eternals/celestials thing would be kind of difficult to build into a movie. a lot of back story to cram in there.. but would be cool if they did..

Simon

@RoryMcCune It's fun to call people nerds, especially when you're one.

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune That's kind of what I mean.

One of M's teachers got her interested in comic books so she's been all kinds of exciting about reading Wonder Woman and X-Men stories.

Which has rather reignited some of my interest. Reading about some of these characters is....intense.

Simon

M's?

Scott Pack

17:27

My wee little daughter.

Simon

No wonders why she's a future villain.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack yeah storylines these days are pretty gritty and sometimes a challenge to work out which version of the universe they're in as they keep destroying it :)

Scott Pack

yeah

I tried to read the synopsis of the House of M storyline once. I'm so confused.

I remember the good old days of the Dark Pheonix Saga. That lasted something like 5 books and was self-contained.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack heh exactly I knew what the score was when they kept things relatiely self contained. the iPad app is quite good in that it can group things together under an "event" which makes it a bit easier, but it does get it wrong sometimes..

Scott Pack

in The Comms Room, 1 min ago, by TheCleaner

I'm dressing up as Meta.SO for Halloween this year. Every time a polite stranger asks me "what's your costume?" I'll reply with a random sarcastic comment insinuating he should have already known what I was dressed as. Then I'll have at least 6 buddies standing there to give me high fives while the stranger looks on.

5

@RoryMcCune That's nice. Sometimes some really interesting storylines result in cross-overs to titles I wouldn't want to read otherwise.

TildalWave

17:42

@ScottPack what no wafels on his head?

Xander

@ScottPack I logged into the Comms Room just to star that. That is awesome.

TildalWave

@Xander you don't have to even: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/11713269#11713269

it can be starred from the transcript ;)

e-sushi

18:59

Griffin

19:22

@RoryMcCune Thanks, I was wondering.

Scott Pack

@e-sushi If you use the actual link it'll get one-boxed.

Rory Alsop

If you are an ISACA member you can get the ISACA APT:How to manage the threats to your business pdf. If not, you can buy it for $60US. It's really quite good (I know - I've got me name at the top of the contributors list :-)

isaca.org/Knowledge-Center/Research/ResearchDeliverables/Pages/…

Simon

Ugh, this is what happens when I spend X weeks coding in VB, now I keep forgetting my damn semicolons all over the place.

Rory Alsop

19:37

@Simon that sounds...messy?

Simon

Messier than my first time.

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack sounds like you have questions for sci-fi.SE

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop eh?

Ah.

Simon

@ScottPack I knew you were Canadian, no wonders why I'm so attracted to you.

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack maybe it was @RoryM

transcript reading is ... long

Scott Pack

19:40

I suppose that would fit.

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop huh wat?

Rory Alsop

@RoryMcCune just the 'what is canon' query from up there^

Scott Pack

Simon

Steve, get out of here.

I said Steve in my head but typed Steven.

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop ahh yeah I wonder what they'd make of that, I have no idea what Canon is in marvel-verse any more..

Simon

19:41

Sometimes, I feel like somebody else is controlling me.

Rory Alsop

@Simon I think the lyric you are looking for is: I always feel like, somebody's watching me.

:-)

Simon

Shit, I'm sure I've heard these lyrics before.

Lulz, MJ.

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune You have to specify which universe you're wanting the canon for

Rory Alsop

@Simon I remember him before he was white. And dead. And penniless.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack is there a good nomenclature for that ? like "Avengers movie-verse" or "uncanny x-men 2000's verse"

Simon

19:44

Yeah... I know him as the weird dude, unfortunately.

Scott Pack

@RoryAlsop I also remember MJ like a brother. Back in the 80s.

@RoryMcCune They're calling it the 'Marvel Cinematic Universe'

Simon

@ScottPack How are you not dead yet? Jeeze, the 80's.

Rory McCune

@Simon I think you're in the minority at the moment youngster...

Simon

:D

Rory McCune

we've got at least two people who remember the 70's in the room at the moment..

Simon

19:47

Dang, they must be in the Guinness World Records book.

Rory Alsop

@Simon Ahh - back when the Gunness World Records book was cool!

new and shiny

had my dad in it

:-)

Simon

@RoryAlsop It was cool when I was like 10 for me.

What did he do, something related to aviation?

Rory Alsop

@Simon yarr

Scott Pack

I hear he single handedly was responsible for some kind of South American event in the early 80s.

Rory Alsop

@Simon Scroll down to 1974: book-of-records.info/miscellanea.html

Simon

19:53

South America was a thing in the 80's?

Rory Alsop

@Simon hahahahaha

Simon

Flight time: 69 seconds

Rory Alsop

@Simon - but he got it down to sub 60 seconds on a later attempt. Sadly without the Gunness guys

Simon

Damn.

Scott Pack

Seriously.

Rory Alsop

19:54

@Simon It's funnier when you see the route. The distance is less than the runways at Heathrow

but the only other way to do it takes over 30 minutes

Simon

He just wanted to keep the number.

Rory Alsop

It's a nasty bit of sea between Westray and Papa Westray

@Simon probably

Xander

@RoryAlsop That's pretty awesome.

Rory Alsop

In fact 1 hr 17 according to google maps: maps.google.co.uk/…

Simon

Time to go home! l8r

Adnan

20:01

@Simon Every now and then I like to go through my most viewed answers and take a new look at them to see if I can improve them. At the same time, I look at the questions and see if I can make them better or use better tags.

It's like a self-enforced quality assurance system.

Some might argue that it's a poor system because I'm the one making the post and I'm the one assuring its quality, but any programmer knows (who uses version control) knows that you now is not you 2 months ago.

Gilles

@Adnan how many did you delete in anger? Any programmer knows that's the normal reaction to 2 months old code

Scott Pack

@Gilles Why wait so long?

Adnan

@Gilles Oh, speaking of anger. WE DID IT!! Really, thanks for your help with the site renaming thing. Especially with the "consensus" question.

I think that was the most convincing bit.

Rory Alsop

20:34

So anyway, while I was looking around in google maps, I finally located Rory's Island (I knew it was in Choiseul Sound, but couldn't remember exactly which one it was. Found the reference in Brown & Woods 2009 survey of the islands stating it was 400m off Black Island)

maps.google.co.uk/…

Well, I thought it was interesting...

@RoryM - you might too:-) ^

it isn't very big (approx 7ha according to Brown & Woods)

Scott Pack

Is that one named for you?

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack ;-P

The main features of Rory's Island - Tussac with dense Diddle-dee

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop I'm liking the innovative island names around there "big samuel island" "little Samuel Island"..

Rory Alsop

hmmmm - yep, sounds just like me

How about the two islands both called Whig

adjacent to each other

The thing that really annoys the locals is that google have been forced to ensure that "Argentine Sea" is in every screenshot with the sea in it

Rory McCune

quality comback vid (NSFW) from bebo

►

Rory Alsop

20:40

@RoryMcCune hahahahaha

Rory McCune

holy hell just looked the Oracle CPU, 12 CVSS 10 vulns in Java

that is not a good thing

Xander

@RoryMcCune Yeah, no, not so much.

Rory McCune

and footnote one to that table "Applies to client and server deployment of Java. This vulnerability can be exploited through sandboxed Java Web Start applications and sandboxed Java applets. It can also be exploited by supplying data to APIs in the specified Component without using sandboxed Java Web Start applications or sandboxed Java applets, such as through a web service."

which I take it means that server-side java is potentially at risk as well as client-side..

Rory Alsop

@RoryMcCune now we wait for this CPU to be applied.........place your bets on how long that's going to be

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop put it this way, I expect these vulns to feature in reports I write for years!

Rory Alsop

20:57

@Iszi and @Scott - saved: bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24557469

Scott Pack

I was hearing one of the Republicans on the radio this morning talking about some of the concessions each side made, how neither of them are really concessions (it's just face saving on both sides) and how some of the younger Republican congressmen are rather misguided.

Considering that, historically, the Republican party has ruled their members with an Iron First I was surprised to hear a lot of it.

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack Ahh - the old Iron First!

:-)

sorry

Scott Pack

Frack.

tylerl

First!

aw, too late.

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop so when can we expect folks back at work?

Rory Alsop

21:19

@TildalWave like I know what happens over that side of the pond...:-)

TildalWave

OK fair enough... I'm still curious tho, because even tho I didn't follow much of the cause and development, the shutdown was starting to get on my tits

copy

@TildalWave A friend told me he got the call to come back tomorrow

TildalWave

If they could at least put back online NASA pages, I can start adding promised references to my answers

copy

Which is weird because the bill hasn't been passed by congress

TildalWave

@copy blimey so when he gets back tomorrow his first call of duty will be calling other to come to their duty?

copy

21:24

@TildalWave Nope, the duty callers are already back doing their duty

TildalWave

as long as it makes sense

Scott Pack

But the NIST website is still down.

GODDAMNIT!

I have several dozen controls that I need to send out for filling out and I feel lame saying, "Here's 45 controls and a link to the pdf. Enjoy!"

TildalWave

I still get the shutdown notice on all that I wanna access

Scott Pack

When I know perfectly well NIST has a part of their website that is an actual html version of everything with nice clicky clicky links.

TildalWave

have you tried timeback machine or google cache?

Scott Pack

21:28

I can't get the URL

TildalWave

google search doesn't produce anything?

Scott Pack

Nothing useful. There aren't any good search terms either, though.

TildalWave

yeah I had a few similar situations in the past two weeks

Scott Pack

I've seen the app, I've used it. I just can't remember where it is or how to find it.

TildalWave

have you tried scotch? :)

Scott Pack

21:31

I don't have any.

I do have wine, cider, and sake though.

tylerl

I'm sure this is a dupe, I just don't know what of.

0

Q: What to know to get into Security (application/networking)?

Hello This being my first post here I wanted to get a bit of information(I did a search quite vigorously, maybe I didn't us the correct words but I couldn't find anything on here). Anyway I am interested in a future career in application security(not web application though) and or network securit...

TildalWave

sake then if it's the 40+ proof one

Scott Pack

And it doesn't help that NIST is all about the publications, but this really isn't one per-say.

TildalWave

no no it doesn't help with that

Scott Pack

@tylerl It definitely is a dupe, but I don't have the energy to find it

TildalWave

21:32

it just ... helps

tylerl

@ScottPack I kinda feel the same way. I'm like kill it with fire... ... er ... kill it with apathy.

Scott Pack

AH-HAH!

web.archive.org/web/20130214065647/http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/…

It looks like they took it down back in April.

Probably because of the impending 4th revision.

TildalWave

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Q: What are my options for a career switch into IT Security?

I am currently working as a Software/Web Developer with around eight years experience, however I have always had an interest in IT Security and am now hoping to move my career in this direction. I was wondering what areas of IT Security might make for a natural progression from software/web deve...

professional-education career

would this one do?

tylerl

Sure

I voted for this one:

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Q: How do I get started with security? (beginner)

I have been working in web development for a fair amount of time. I am looking at developing in either Python (Django etc.) or PHP. I am new to security. Where do I begin looking? What are basic things I should have in mind? Basically, how do I get started with this? Apart from web related securi...

web-application

which is a little mean, because it's closed

but i think it reflects the fact that this is a stupid question

TildalWave

hahaha now it has 3 possible duplicates there :)

Scott Pack

21:38

Let me see which one I have an answer on and vote for that one

None of them. Drat.

TildalWave

I found one you have 2 edits in, does that count?

Xander

@TildalWave @tylerl @ScottPack Hopefully he'll get the hint that if he wants to get into InfoSec, he needs to improve his searching skills.

TildalWave

that would be one thing to improve yup, RTFM would be the next one I guess...

I've found 2 pages of similar questions actually

I'm a programmer and I wanna go into securiteeh

Where do these programmers that know nothing about security come from? That's not how my school looked like... :O

Scott Pack

Easy. They come from a programming background.

It's been my experience that security principles are usually thrown out in favor of releasing product.

If a place has a QA program then things may be different, but even doing a simple static analysis takes time away from shipping product.

TildalWave

Dunno I guess I'm old school

I feel funny even saying this

Xander

21:49

@TildalWave Have you ever read a "Beginning X" type programming book? Where a web development technology is "X", Chapter 2 is where 90% of the world's SQL injection vulnerabilities are taught.

TildalWave

All folks that I know and have been in IT this or that way I can have perfectly normal conversations with about InfoSec just as well and they mostly even know of all the major latest developments ... but that's my generation or older, I know none that are much younger and I'd engage in such conversations, tho prolly for other reasons. Honestly tho, I haven't a clue what comes out of my old schools now

schroeder

anyone know anyone at Red-Gate?

TildalWave

@Xander I didn't see anyone say they're beginner programmers

AviD

@TildalWave @tylerl I want to close both of those as dupes of

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Q: What are the career paths in the computer security field?

What sorts of jobs are there, in which organizations, with what sorts of day-to-day responsibilities? What areas are good for folks coming out of school, vs what are good 2nd careers for experienced folks coming from various disciplines?

people-management career

TildalWave

actually, I haven't a clue what programmer even means any more

AviD

21:51

consensus?

TildalWave

@AviD I wonder why? :D

AviD

because it is the only one with 2 full answers?

Scott Pack

@TildalWave I think you've been lucky. In my experience most programmers ignore secure programming because it slows down product ship. Most older sysadmins ignore it because mainframes are scary black boxes that you don't fuck with (nevermind they're now handling RedHat).

TildalWave

sure go ahead it's as good of a thread on the topic as anyone could hope that the dupe OPs will read LOL

AviD

any halfway decent answer on the other question is at best "do this" without mentioned how its one possible subset.

TildalWave

21:55

@ScottPack Hmmm maybe. It's always been a major thing here in any IT schools, but I really don't know how's now with that. Based on what's being developed, it's probably much the same as anywhere. But my generation, for example I never specifically studied InfoSec, but it's always been there and not just easily dismissed with either.

Xander

@TildalWave Beginning programmers turn into old programmers. They don't necessarily learn in between. It isn't ideal, but it isn't uncommon either.

TildalWave

I've noticed that actually ... I've been a senior programmer for years and whenever I'd say that I'd get the looks like I don't look that old LOL

I never bother to explain what senior means in that context tho, perhaps I should so I see where their confusion stems from

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