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00:08
Posted by Jeff Atwood on June 13th, 2011

In March 2010, we rebalanced our reputation system to favor answers.

While we value good questions (and asking a great question is absolutely an art), we want to explicitly encourage people to provide the best possible answers. Without people interested in providing good answers, the questions are moot. We know that answers have more intrinsic value than questions, and the reputation balance should reflect that.

The question asker already enjoys a substantial benefit beyond reputation gain from upvotes on their question — namely, they get great answers to their question! Thus, the asker shouldn’t need as much reputation gain.  …

00:20
@HendrikBrummermann What @Ninefingers fingers said. Also, the two are in truth different things. Just because they both happen to be on the same tree, doesn't mean they should be treated together.
Not to mention, a mod could disagree on the answer flag and leave it alone, thus leaving the offensive comment intact.
00:39
@ScottPack I assume you meant "should be treated together"
hello all
@HendrikBrummermann and btw I cleaned up both the comment and the answer (removed the insults). It's still not really an answer though, but I left a comment asking the poster to clean that up himself.
to tell the truth, I kinda agreed with him, just not so harshly. it was a really low level q.
@ThomasPornin @nealmcb does that whole "group decryption" thing have anything in common with "dual control" or "split knowledge" of decryption keys?
ala what is required in PCI 6.3?
@AviD You're right, I must have performed too much in-place editing whilst typing. Whoops.
@ScottPack never too late to edit - at least not for me ;)
oo, forgot - you're room owner, you can also always edit. right?
@Iszi heh, thats funny - I commented on it that I thought it should be migrated, you defended its presence... I reluctantly agreed with you. having a change of heart? :)
@Iszi and no, no input from me
@ThomasPornin @nealmcb, wrt the Rabin-Miller q,
7
Q: How many iterations of Rabin-Miller should be used to generate cryptographic safe primes?

jnm2I am generating a 2048-bit safe prime for a Diffie-Hellman-type key, p such that p and (p-1)/2 are both prime. How few iterations of Rabin-Miller can I use on both p and (p-1)/2 and still be confident of a cryptographically strong key? In the research I've done I've heard everything from 6 to 6...

as I just wrote in the comments there (but would rather discuss it here), "the explanation (that its not a question of security concerns) is a security aspect, that is a crypto explanation and not an engineering one". it's not really a programmer-type answer (i.e. one that a programmer would give, but it is one that they might need.)
@AviD That's a neg. Only mods have that power.
@ScottPack no biggie, i fixie
That's what he said.
00:52
@ScottPack well my point is it should be here, not on SO. not to mention we could use the extra q's....
interesting post on meta.so, wrt the "magic links" that have appeared lately in comments (like the auto-linkage of FAQ)
56
A: Add data.SE style "magic links" to comments

balphaMost of these now work. My comment below has the following markdown source: On [main], you are expected to write proper English (as advertised on [english.se]), but here on [metaso] it's more important to have freehand circles, so please [edit] your post, otherwise I'll have to flag you (see ...

@AviD Move, don't move, whatever works for me. I mostly put in that vote/flag because guys who knew more than me suggested it.
Those magic links are a pretty nice touch.
oo, and finally found the list of oneboxed sites:
8
A: What links and sites are handled specially in chat?

Juha SyrjäläThe current list of integrated (we call this onebox, or oneboxing, ala search engines) sites is: Stack Exchange sites: Questions / Answers / Users Stack Exchange Chat: Messages / Rooms / Bookmarked conversations Area 51 proposals Posts from the Stack Exchange blog and the Server Fault blog Amaz...

identica? Never heard of it. Looks like twatter.
and, proposed additions to it:
9
Q: What sites should have hyperlinking (onebox) support in chat?

Juha SyrjäläSome sites are integrated to chat . What additional sites should the chat support? One suggestion per answer.

Reading every meta.so post?
01:03
@ScottPack yeah, looks like
no, someone popped these up in another room... thought I'd share them here too
I like how Jeff whines about how MSDN would be useless to all of those sites, and yet he included Github in the initial rollout.
@ScottPack heh... methinks he's trying to be politically correct. yknow, so he doesnt get eviscerated by the anti-ms crowd....
and on a lighter note, I got to use the word eviscerated in a chat today.
@AviD Congrats!
I can't help but think of MUDs whenever I see that word.
@ScottPack hehe.
you get to play dukenukem yet? ;)
@AviD Nah, I don't have any computers beefy enough to play it anyway.
01:07
@ScottPack beefy enough? this is 12 year old tech. probably run on a pentium 2.
Oh, you don't mean Forever?
@ScottPack oh, i do ;)
I really enjoyed that one.
its a shame, really - I used to say "Sure, I'll get to that as soon as Duke Nukem Forever comes out." Cant use that one anymore.
I sent this to the guy im the office next door.
Guess who pre-ordered?
As of this afternoon I tried to say, "They still have a few hours to delay." but he wouldn't go for it.
01:11
heh. reviews werent too favorable though
I never actually played any of those, if you can believe it.
Although, over the weekend I pulled a Sempron 3200+ out of my "to recycling" pile and built an XP box for playing some of those old games.
Maybe I'll find myself a copy and put it on there.
Phantasmagoria and Riven are first on my list :)
hehe
fun fun!
and another in the random links pile:
40
Q: Pro-forma comments

Benjol No more re-typing the same comments over and over! This script adds a little 'auto' link next to all comments boxes. When you click the link, you see a popup with 6 configurable auto-comments, which you can easily click to insert. Features 1. Read your comment before you post it! Note th...

I know BenPilbrow uses that one quite a bit. Looked like fun stuff.
@RoryAlsop and @GrahamLee - note that link, it comes highly reccomended especially for mods....
Ben? He be SF mod?
Nope, just a very active community member.
Oo, there's the ole lady, so the kid's asleep. Wife time.
G'night.
01:15
soooo we gonna make a blog happen? (:
@RebeccaChernoff was @ScottPack referring to you??? ;)
good evening
I'm all for the blog - but you know how these things are.
I'll try to ping all the bloggunteers (voluntoggers?) tomorrow, start setting up a schedule / initial topics.
I say let's do it!
Just need to turn things away from the hypothetical "should we do this" into the "we are doing this"
that is, assuming there is consensus on the plan... @RoryAlsop?
ok, lets put it this way: "We ARE doing this". just a question of time.... :S
S:
hey, works both ways...
@RebeccaChernoff are we your guinnea pigs for this?
SU, Gaming, we're setting Stats up as well.
@RebeccaChernoff ah, cool.
01:20
GIS maybe, they're still in the hypothetical stage.
SU isnt new though...
stats and GIS arent beta sites, are they?
the SU blog is community-run though. It's what started the whole "hey communities could do blogs" which turned into Blog Overflow project
@AviD we're not limiting blogs to graduated sites
@RebeccaChernoff just curious.
and, would the blog help us graduate faster ;)
other than (hopefully) drawing additional users via the blog....
01:25
Well I don't see it hurting the community (:
omigaww, just realized how late it is - I have to wake up in a couple hours.
I really shouldnt be drinking redbull after 9pm...
gnite everyone
02:23
Charing for hotel internet is just douchy.
 
3 hours later…
04:58
@AviD Did I defend it? Doesn't seem like something I would... But, memories can be fuzzy.
 
2 hours later…
07:11
@Iszi comment's right there, black on checkered white... ;)
"@AviD - I can't speak for the OP, but the question to me appears to be a matter of privacy concerns. Very relevant, I think. – Iszi Jun 10 at 13:11"
the q again, since you dont believe me ;)
4
Q: Resolving an IP address of a Remote machine to its MAC address

RushilI wanted to know whether its possible to get the MAC address of remote node (computer/Access Point) if I know its IP address. I have heard that if someone sends you an email (even through gmail), you can find out the IP address (using the email headers), get the MAC address, and find out the exa...

 
1 hour later…
08:40
@Iszi my turn for a disgustingly long answer....
0
A: How do you discover what permissions an AD group has, if you have no documentation?

AviDLet me preface what will probably be a longish answer with "There is no simple solution". Solving this will take some strategic work (which is why I recommended not moving this to SF). Now I will explain why. Windows, at its core, is mostly based on the DAC model of access control. Everythin...

@nealmcb I hope this convinces you that the q belongs here, not on SF...
09:11
you gotta be kidding me.
I just got a "Nice Answer" badge for that vishing question.
it was a throwaway answer, didnt really put much thought into - wasnt going to answer it in the first place, in fact I gave thought to closing the question...
 
2 hours later…
11:17
@AviD I don't know about PCI specifically. To understand group decryption, imagine a tamper-resistant device which holds a private key and accepts to use it only if asked to by a quorum of duly authenticated users; the users do not get a copy of the key, they can just get a key-dependent action (say, a single decryption or signature) if enough ask for it.
Group decryption is about doing the same thing without a tamper-resistant device, only mathematics.
So it is "split knowledge on steroids". Could be called "split power".
11:31
@AviD At some point a long time ago, I played Duke Nuke'm 2
For a whole ten minutes, if I recall correctly.
That's still more Duke than I've had.
 
1 hour later…
12:37
@AviD Ah, right. I guess on second read that didn't seem so obvious to me.
@AviD Maybe you should tidy it up and flesh it out a bit?
13:06
Migration candidate?
0
Q: No Access in Win7 - No permission to own folders

NasenbaerI am Administrator. Also the "big" administrator net user Administrator /active. But I have no access to my own files. First let me say what I've done: I copied some files from one computer over LAN to the other. The I found out, that this computer has no access to a few (about 25 files), I've ...

13:21
I am now officially an "enthusiast". Correspondingly, I rejoice.
@ThomasPornin Gratz
Went ahead and posted my welcome screen question. Feel free to migrate if it really doesn't belong.
0
Q: Hiding user account names from unauthenticated RDP sessions.

IsziThis is for a Windows 7 Ultimate system, which is not a member of a domain. When I log into the system locally, I am required to either manually enter my user ID or authenticate with biometrics. The system does not display my username on the Welcome screen at boot-up, or when the session is loc...

 
2 hours later…
15:18
Sometimes I really wish we could up-vote edits. Thanks for the tag fix, @AviD!
@ThomasPornin Hooray. I was like 2 days away from getting the gold badge. The one for visiting 100 days consecutive
@Karrax Yes, I can't get that one -- because it seems that I am definitely not a fanatic.
In about two weeks I will be on holiday, off the Internet for at least 10 days, and I do not worry at the prospect.
Nice :) I was offline due to holidays aswell. Totally worth it hehe.
 
1 hour later…
16:42
@ThomasPornin - I just ran across "esign", referenced in rsa4051 and said to be much faster than RSA, with similar key length: springerlink.com/content/v06e14wml9w8pdvn
But I don't see much else about it. Does anyone use it? Do the EC schemes beat it?
17:05
@nealmcb Security of ESIGN is not completely clear, depending on key size and signature size. ESIGN uses a modulus n = pq^2 (three factors, one being squared). To be sure, you would have to use a larger modulus than for a RSA key.
The speed advantage is not clear either, because ESIGN involves modular inversions modulo n, and that's not free
Also, RSA allows signatures with embedded data (ISO 9796-2) which helps in reducing message size, and smartcard developers just love that.
The main reason why ESIGN is not widely used is that it is a patent minefield: nttmcl.com/sec/Esign/esign.html
That was my fear....
NTT is currently pushing ESIGN for ISO standardization
but ISO standards are not free, so this will not help adoption in free software
@ThomasPornin Thanks - I was just surprised it hadn't really hit my radar before, especially something given an id in an RFC. (oops - typo above, I meant RFC4051....)
@avid By the way, that reminds me I agree with this request for support for magic lookups of RFC references:
9
A: What sites should have hyperlinking (onebox) support in chat?

Juha SyrjäläRFCs. Text like RFC2616 or RFC-2616 is changed a link that point to relevant RFC page. The Rfc title should also appear in resulting message. For example: RFC-2616: Hypertext Transfer Protocol -- HTTP/1.1

 
1 hour later…
18:21
@nealmcb I agree, that would be very useful to onebox. +1'd it.
@Iszi me likey de taggies
but I agree, sometimes the edit is worth more than the original post itself, and really saves the question.
speaking of, @Rory did a good job on the captive portal question. Actually he got the OP to fix it up, but either way I think its a good q now.
@Iszi re vishing, thing is I dont really have much to add to it. It's on the periphery of my expertise, but not really that interesting to me. Pretty much said all I've got to say on it... just didnt think it was worth that many upclicks.
@Iszi so whats your thought now on that remote IP -> MAC address q?
@ThomasPornin so the common split knowledge / dual control, is kind of a simplistic instance of implementation of a subset of that?
PCI doesnt elaborate implementation requirements, as far as they're concerned each could hold half the encryption key - or even half the password required to access the key.
Is this really on-topic for us?
0
Q: How does WikiLeaks(Julian Assange) get the US Embassy cables?

Kugathasan AbimaranHow does this guy get these cables? Are those cables routed through a single node, where this guy got it? If so, How it is possible? I mean, how that single point came under the control of Julian Assange? If not, then how did he get them? Didn't they encrypted? Thanks a lot.

@Iszi I was thinking that too.
main reason I popped on chat now, to discuss that.
and, Good evening.
yes, its evening!
I was thinking of migrating that to Skeptics...
(oo, i love this new magic linking thing!)
@AviD If there's an SE that it actually belongs in, that's probably the one.
heya @JeffFerland
@AviD ?
[Skeptics]
Nope.
18:30
its a mod only function :D
I typed [ skeptics . se ] (without the spaces...)
57
A: Add data.SE style "magic links" to comments

balphaMost of these now work. My comment below has the following markdown source: On [main], you are expected to write proper English (as advertised on [english.se]), but here on [metaso] it's more important to have freehand circles, so please [edit] your post, otherwise I'll have to flag you (see ...

so @JeffFerland, where do you weigh in on the biggest topic of the day? duke nukem, king or no? ;)
@Iszi put in a close vote, if we get another one I'll hammer it. I want to get some consensus, since I'm not totally sure about it.
@AviD Already done.
that is, it might have been a security q, if he cracked his way in and stole the docs. but he didnt (apparently).
@AviD If not the Duke, then whom?
18:34
@Iszi so you pick up forever, already? ;)
@AviD It's still security-relevant in the sense of having been an insider threat, and failure of removable media controls.
just want to hear a first person account, it looked reeeheely bad.
But, it calls for a lot of speculation and many details that we should not be expected to authoritatively answer.
@Iszi but thats not what was asked... and, its really not an answer anyone can give.
@Iszi Well, the question hiding inside is "what lessons can be learned from the fact that a low-level military person could grab so much information without detection"
18:35
@AviD Is it out already? Wow, we're later into the month than I thought. I'd been meaning to download the demo.
@nealmcb but noone really knows that, right?
I've seen lots of criticism of the system, and the fact that he did it means they didn't have some obvious controls in place
@Iszi hmm maybe we should talk to @Robert about getting samples for users on THIS site too, not just on Gaming....
@nealmcb but again, even that is speculation.
I agree in principle, but theres no real way to know.
unless @Julian pops in and answers it himself... ;)
Since when do we avoid asking a question because we speculate that no one would have a good answer?
@AviD @Robert? I don't think I know an @Robert. I know @CRoss.
18:38
Cartaino. community boss, or whatever his title...
@nealmcb SE isn't really meant for speculative questions.
@AviD Oh, that @Robert.
@Iszi but I'm tempted to close it for such lack of trying to get an answer
The United States diplomatic cables leak (also known as Cablegate) began on 28 November 2010 when WikiLeaks—an international new media non-profit organization that publishes submissions of private, secret and classified information from anonymous news sources, government whistleblowers, and news leaks—started to publish classified documents of detailed correspondence between the U.S. State Department and its diplomatic missions around the world, releasing further documents every day. WikiLeaks forwarded diplomatic cables to five major newspapers around the world, which have been pub...
@nealmcb we're not speculating, we're stating that there is no good answer without speculation.
How do you know that?
If nothing else, it just takes another good leak....
same with the securid question
@nealmcb Unless someone here is directly involved with the case - which we should not be presumed to be - there really isn't a way to give a non-speculative answer.
18:40
@nealmcb heh. well, I guess you're right... so you say no migrate to skeptics?
In any case, what problem does the question as written actually address?
@nealmcb FTR: I was against that one also.
I said close it
as written? none. as potentially rewritten? possibly deal with high-level data leakage as a class.
Especially given Jeff's recent call for better questions
@nealmcb put your vote in. close as...? NaRQ? OT? localized?
18:42
@AviD You can view a common secret sharing, or even secret splitting, as a degenerate case of a multiparty computation which, when executed, results in the production of the shared/split secret.
@AviD For questions as weak as that one, I don't like to deal in "as potentially rewritten". You can't really guess the OP's intent, and they shouldn't be given the opportunity to gain rep from a question that someone else had to completely re-write and re-purpose for them.
@Iszi i agree on that.
so close it saying to ask a non-argumentative question. NARQ.
its being closed.... as what now?
@AviD I voted as off-topic, but NaRQ fits too.
18:44
went with localized. "This question is unlikely to ever help any future visitors.... or an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet"
Hehe. That fits as well.
there should be another close reason: "All of the Above".
@ThomasPornin thanks, thats kinda what I was thinking.
Who can say that just about ANY question is "unlikely to ever help any future visitors"
Certainly not one with this many lessons to learn...
"degenerate", do you mean this should be considered weaker?
@nealmcb not impossible, unlikely. as in, low probability. So, I can. :)
@AviD Or (not this one particularly) "for reason of gross incompetence"?
18:46
@Iszi lol... yes, seen those. lmgtfy bait.
Well, I promised myself I'd get some work done after getting home early this afternoon. Probably ought to hook up the VPN and get that going.
@AviD Again, I think this would get plenty of good and helpful answers. And more so when we get a real question, and one that doesn't reek of no research.
@nealmcb okay, when we get that real question, we'll worry about it.
Good job closing that wikileaks question so quickly.
@nealmcb But getting a "real question" would likely require someone to completely re-write it and, in doing so, entirely change its stated intent.
Such things should only be done by the OP.
18:50
@Iszi Of course - that's why i voted to close as NARQ
Dude's been on the system long enough, I would have thought he would know better. But, most of his rep is on programmers, so maybe they're more into that kind of thing.
@ScottPack Programmers is the "OoC" forum for SO.
But if someone were to answer the title question, it would be pretty widely useful
@Iszi I thought it would be, though I haven't looked at it yet.
Dude needs to know to raise his hand.
so stated intent is close to fine
damn - where is that other question on our military network - from the guy in iraq
18:51
@nealmcb Even the title question is still ambiguous and unanswerable beyond speculation.
right - NARQ, not localized
@nealmcb The SIPR/NIPR one?
1
Q: SIPR, NIPR and Centrix Military systems.

AbduThis is going to branch into a bunch of seperate questions.....here is some background for the question: The Rijndael algorithm was crowned the new AES by Uncle Sam for sensitive, but unclassified info (128-256 key+block sizes through 10-14 rounds) . The Kerckhoff school of thought is "Let the a...

@nealmcb Arguably. The question still addresses a very narrow situation.
@Iszi Ding ding ding!
18:54
@nealmcb I notice how the person who is likely best suited to answer that one hasn't.
@ScottPack @beth?
Yuppers
Come to think, it's a bummer we don't see her on here ever.
@ScottPack as someone commented, those who know probably are not allowed to discuss that.
@Iszi yeah, we should get some girls in here! and beer! ;)
@AviD Granted.
18:56
besides you, @Iszi... ;)
I think it's unfair that National Gin Day was neither publicized, nor an official US holiday.
I wonder if this is at all related to the Apple retail worker that's trying to start a union?
RT @jonnyevans_cw: "Retail chief Ron Johnson quits Apple for JC Penney" http://tinyurl.com/5rwht97
Bah! ADD attacks again. Let me try getting back to work.
@nealmcb do you still think that AD group permissions q should be moved to Server Fault?
@AviD OK, I'm reading your answer. Confused by this one: "OS-level privileges. (Though it is possible to specify a specific user to grant these privileges to, it is intended - and functions as - a RBAC model."
(note missing paren also)
added the parans :$
thanks
19:07
You should start off with your "recap"
@AviD But I still don't see what it means or the relevance
@nealmcb I prefer starting with the theory...
@nealmcb the OS level privileges? or the granting privs to user?
Just the first sentence of the recap - not the details.
@AviD It's not a sentence that completes "There are a few distinct exceptions to this:" and I don't know what "this" refers to
what, are you parsing it with a regex? ;)
I'm trying to get the gist of your answer without being distracted by stuff I can't parse
that this was a few lines higher, referring to the "everything is DAC". added other lines in after....
@nealmcb dangit, NO more writing before coffee.... :$
19:16
@AviD Isn't it after dinner in your parts?
well now (okay, soon for me), but I wrote that in the morning.
@AviD Nice description of the kinds of messes that you can run into with authz.... So your answer to his question is the "solutions" part that basically says "there is no comprehensive tool and it is very hard to get that information". That belongs on SF because those people need to know that. It could also contain a reference to a question here that would properly set people up for your good advice on authz architecture.
20:08
evening
finally got some time in front of the computer to relax
would have yesterday, but got given a ticket to see Clutch and Gwar, so that was a fun evening:-)
@AviD Cheers - still not sure what the best way to do these is, but I think providing info on controls or remediation is definitely a value add
@AviD re blogging - yes, definitely
21:48
That works. Was trying to migrate it but chat was giving me an error.
for all y'all that were interested in the blog - please do check out the migrated conversation in the other room, some interesting and important info there.
@RebeccaChernoff thanks... methinks the migration was a bit overzealous :)
eh maybe, but there are several other sites asking the exact same questions as y'all.
and it feels weird to tell them "go check out the security room"
@RebeccaChernoff fair enough, I just meant there was some chats mixed in in the beginning that weren't about the blog. no biggie, though... nothing important, I think.
Ah, if I grabbed too much from the beginning feel free to correct it.
@RebeccaChernoff nah, nevehmind.
@nealmcb interested in taking on the editor-in-chief?
hope you (or anybody else) don't mind me nominating you...
22:08
@AviD No objections here.
@AviD Gulp - sounds like I should be honored :)
:1146686 What organization are you thinking of? In that conversation, they suggested several editors-in-chief under a top editor, but I agree that doesn't make sense English Language and Usage-wise.
I'm not good at cracking whips, but seem to handle actual editing pretty well....
@nealmcb thats what I figured :). The whips will be everybody's guilty conscience towards you... ;)
Heh - I aim not to induce guilt either - so counterproductive :)

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