The DMZ

AviD

16:09

@ScottPack Ostensibly. The bottom one might be male, for all you know.

Then again, that's not necessarily a contradiction...

Simon

And I thought I was the creepy one.

I'd like to apologize to myself.

Polynomial

good morrow.

fredley

I'm not sure my question should have been closed as a dupe.

But I'm aware you may have different policies over here

The question as intended doesn't seem to be a dupe to me

Polynomial

I think the point is that your question is moot, because of the things covered in the other question.

Arguably that doesn't mean it's a dupe.

fredley

@Polynomial Covered in the other question or covered in the answer to the other question?

Polynomial

16:19

@fredley answers.

Simon

Are you fucking kidding me? The dude that didn't answer the question at all with his xkcd image got 3 upvotes?

fredley

Questions with duplicate answers aren't necessarily duplicate :-)

Polynomial

@Simon -1 it then :P

fredley

@Simon I flagged that as Not An Answer

Simon

@fredley Me too.

fredley

16:20

We don't let shit like that through at gaming

Simon

@Polynomial Yep, I didn't want to but now I certainly will.

@fredley Good. However, I'm fairly sure that "outsiders" upvoted him, AKA people who saw the question through Super Collider.

There, it's back to 1 upvote now.

copy

@fredley Here, bad people suddenly lose money from their online banking accounts

Polynomial

and flagged, too.

Simon

@Polynomial Thank you sir.

fredley

Next job: reopen votes :-P

Simon

16:23

It seems that as soon as you post an xkcd here, people agree so much with you and think that you contributed to the question greatly.

ManishEarth

Hey, @fredley :D

fredley

@ManishEarth o/

Simon

@fredley Let me read both questions and I will vote to reopen it if I agree with you.

ManishEarth

What's an o/ ?

Polynomial

@Simon That's because xkcd is awesome and people are silly.

fredley

16:24

@ManishEarth Just go \o and everything will be ok

Polynomial

@ManishEarth a waving man.

fredley

@Polynomial High fiving

ManishEarth

Ah

Polynomial

ARSE

bah, fail

ManishEarth

@fredley \o

Polynomial

16:24

nope

ManishEarth

o /

fredley

@ManishEarth help me, people in here don't start vigorously debating site policy after a reopen request

2

I don't know what to do

ManishEarth

@fredley Post spam

Polynomial

yeah basically I can't superscript in here :[

fredley

ihighfive.com

Polynomial

16:25

@fredley lol, we're too distracted for that kind of thing

Simon

@Polynomial It makes me hate xkcd :(

Polynomial

pretty much everyone here is an ADHD monkey.

@Simon Love the xkcd. Hate the people.

fredley

@Polynomial Have you been to gaming?

Simon

@Polynomial That'd be the smart thing to do.

Polynomial

@fredley I have. They're more ADHD in the angsty frustrated teenager sense.

ManishEarth

16:26

@Polynomial o/⁼

fredley

@Polynomial There are surprisingly few teenagers, in The Bridge at least

Polynomial

@fredley Teenagers in spirit.

fredley

@Polynomial That I won't argue with :-P

Polynomial

I AM ANGRY AT THE WORLD AND THEREFORE WILL MAKE GRUNTING NOISES AND PLAY LUDICROUSLY VISCERAL VIDEO GAMES

Simon

@Polynomial It seems that I became more polite since I stopped gaming.

Polynomial

16:27

also known as Gears of War Syndrome

@Simon I became more polite when I realised that other people's opinions mattered too.

fredley

@Polynomial The world scares me so I shall retire to my make-believe world of blocks where I am an omnipotent God.

Polynomial

which coincided with me not being a teenager.

Simon

@Polynomial Dayum.

fredley

@Simon If there's one thing worse than gaming it's politics

Polynomial

@fredley s/blocks/spacecraft/ and I'll agree. Yay KSP!

Simon

16:29

@fredley Hence why I doubt that I'll ever get involved in politics.

fredley

@Polynomial KSP is awesome

Polynomial

want a laugh? go on /r/politics on reddit.

fredley

@Simon The only thing worse than politics is r/politics

@Polynomial Beat me to it

Polynomial

then try not to be angry at arbitrarily stupid things like neoconservatives.

Simon

I think I've been on reddit twice.

Polynomial

16:30

the funniest part of r/politics is the non-Americans getting super worked up about American politics

r/netsec is a good shout

(not least of which because my blog is on the front page right now)

fredley

@Polynomial American politics does have more global effect than any other country's politics

Polynomial

@fredley oh I don't disagree, but it's when you find Finnish folk getting angry over state laws and gun violence that makes me laugh

and s/Finnish/other non-US countries/

dunno why I picked on the Finns specifically. I like the Finns

fredley

@Polynomial Yeah. Despair is the correct emotion as a foreigner viewing American domestic politics. Pity is also acceptable.

Polynomial

so I was listening to Liquidmatrix Security Podcast earlier

and they said my name

like my full name.

made me jump :P

Rory Alsop

@Polynomial no - I'll stick to wtf, netsec, and occasionally some of the medical ikky ones (for my wife's amusement - she is a nurse you know)

@Polynomial cool

@Polynomial yay!

@Polynomial linky?

nvm - found it

Simon

16:44

@RoryAlsop Post his name so we can stalk him on FB.

Rory Alsop

@Simon I'm pretty certain all the info you require is available on Sec.SE

:-)

Simon

@RoryAlsop But it requires a certain degree of effort.

Lucas Kauffman

Lazy canadian

Simon

I wonder if it'd be simpler to be a banana than a Canadian.

@CodesInChaos Is that really your very first question?

CodesInChaos

apparently it's my first for security.SE. I have a couple on crypto and SO

Rory Alsop

16:59

@CodesInChaos just added a couple of links

so folks can find out some more info about both beast and L13, and the community's thoughts on them

CodesInChaos

your BEAST link goes to CRIME

Rory Alsop

@CodesInChaos oops - hang on

sorted

Simon

I just thought of something quite twisted. Has anyone ever seen a SQL query inserted in the database and then people would fetch the query in the DB to then execute it? No idea why someone would ever do that but I think of stuff like this from times to times because... I'm weird.

tylerl

17:17

@Simon I cant think of any valid use for this that isn't more efficiently done by some other method

though stored procedures are stored in the database, so that's kind of like what you're tlaking about

Simon

@tylerl Yeah. If I ever run into this one day, I'm gonna laugh my ass off.

@tylerl You're right.

But let's say a table tblQuery with a field strQuery, that'd be something.

Adnan

God damn it! I go away for a few hours and you people destroy me.

So mean.. so mean

Et tu, @Simon? Et tu?

Simon

@Adnan wat

Adnan

Europe people, please join me in my hatred towards RyanAir.

tylerl

So how many times has this happened: You run into a problem that's particularly problematic, so you Google the solution and find that someone else had exactly the same problem and posted the perfect question on a StackExchange site and you get all excited cause you finally found the solution and you visit the link and it's you asking this same question a year ago still with no answers. DAMMIT.

Scott Pack

17:27

@AviD Whatever the relative genders are they both look happy.

Rory Alsop

@Adnan already done, mate

possibly the most despicable, evil organisation on the planet. Well, except for the IKEA portals to hell

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan It's a latin joke: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_tu,_Brute%3F

Lamia

17:54

Guys, do you know any good way I can use to stop someone blackmailing my cousin on Ask.fm, she asked for my help but I only know simple ways >< if you could suggest me something to do with her

Rory Alsop

@Lamia The only way to avoid being blackmailed is to not provide blackmailable material. If you have, then no matter what, some of it could come out. I would suggest she stop using that site and prepare for whatever it is to be made public. If you can identify the perpetrators, then police is an option. Otherwise - not a lot really

Simon

Damn, my arms are hairy.

Rory Alsop

@Simon I don't know how to respond to that

Simon

@RoryAlsop I wouldn't know neither.

Rory Alsop

other than: naircare.com/men/landing.aspx

Simon

17:57

Never waxing.

Never ever.

Rory Alsop

that stuff isn't wax

it dissolves hair

copy

Why not

Rory Alsop

used to be called immac

but I guess Apple sued them

Simon

Weird. Anyway, I don't mind hair on my arms but I never realized I had this much.

Lamia

@RoryAlsop That's exactly what I told her but she's a teenage -_- that didn't convince her

Thomas Pornin

17:59

@Lamia Ultimately, The Real World (tm) will do the convincing.

Rory Alsop

@Lamia I still don't know why teenagers don't learn. I mean it's not like there has been news everywhere about girls and boys being blackmailed and bullied. Some enough to commit suicide. On that very site

@ThomasPornin yup - it's sad, but true

kids these days have gone straight into sharing without first realising there are a lot of scumbags out there

Simon

Never liked that website.

Simply because of the ads I see on YT.

Lamia

What am I supposed to do with her now

I tried to identify the perpetrator but I couldn't

Simon

Talk to her parents.

Rory Alsop

@Simon yep - best plan

Lamia

18:03

She's suspecting some ppl she knows .. I told her to pretend that she knows who's doing that, at least to scare whoever is trying to blackmail her:p but she said people will avoid asking me ask.fm again -.- I don't get her

@Simon Hahahaha that's a good one

Rory McCune

mass produced fingerprint sensors anyone?

iPhone 5S has got one

Lamia

I guess I am going for it.. I know she wouldn't like it but this is the only thing I could do

Rory McCune

will be interesting to see if Apple can do a good job of making fingerprint sensing tech good...

Adnan

@ThomasPornin Being retrained by the closest of yours isn't a joke.

Rory Alsop

@RoryMcCune hmmm - the tech is still only just about acceptable on laptops, and they have far fewer constraints

Rory McCune

18:08

@RoryAlsop yeah it will be very interesting to see what they do. their chat is that only 50% of iPhone users set any kind of passcode, so from that base any movement is one in the right direction!

Simon

Crazy comment on youtube: "This is my neighbors favorite song, whether they like it or not."

Thomas Pornin

18:22

@Adnan The joke is that, if he did say it at all, he probably said it in Greek, not Latin.

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune Fingerprint readers are nice.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack well for consumer use-cases even with the false negative rate cranked down it's better than no passcode

and with a 4 digit passcode in combination it's a more userfriendly way of bumping up the sec a bit I reckon

Scott Pack

If it gets people to do more then it's probably worth it.

Rory Alsop

@Scott - that splunk question - I'm happy to migrate it over.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack true dat.

Rory Alsop

18:29

it had 2 votes for SU, but I think only because SU is the sort of goto option in the list, and it has no SF option

Lucas Kauffman

Splunk is definitely SF material

@lamnia what did she post on there anyway?

Rory Alsop

@Lucas - what's your thinking on publishing your blog post? For this Friday?

Lucas Kauffman

Sure that sounds good

AviD

@tylerl @Simon I've actually sadly seen this a number of times. Efficiency was never the logic behind it.

Which is to say, I'm not sure that there was any logic behind it at all.

Rory Alsop

you've had the crypto vetted by big bear, right? so I'll just do a quick proofread

Simon

18:43

@AviD Wow.

@AviD Yeah, I'd love to make the person who did that justify the purpose.

Lamia

@LucasKauffman Is Lamnia supposed to be me? - she didn't post anything that's why she's suspecting one of her friends :/ I don;t understand her problem really

AviD

@Simon Whaaaat? It provides complete dynamism! We wont be locked down to a single schema! We can change our code on the fly! Yay!

Simon

@AviD luuuuullllzzzz

AviD

seriously, that was the supposed justification.

Yes, as you can imagine, we did find any number of secbugs in that...

I think it's formally called something like the "Custom Platform Effect", or something like that. Combined with Architecture Astronauts, of course.

Iszi

Urgh. This has been my day.

►

AviD

18:46

and no, it looks nothing at all like stored procedures.

Iszi

Tapioca pudding discussion = Work I'd planned to do, some of which is urgent and/or already overdue.
Mustache discussion = Meetings & other stuff I really could do without but don't have much choice over.

Only I didn't have a Leonard around to cut off the mustache discussion.

AviD

haha

Thomas Pornin

@AviD I do work with a system which generates SQL requests dynamically (big ones -- translation of XPath queries to search into a virtual set of XML object, with all the job done in SQL, including applying access rights on every attribute). Doing this dynamic SQL generation in SQL would just be the next step.

AviD

@ThomasPornin oh he's not even talking about that - though I have seen that quite a lot, too (and I used to do this as a junior programmer - dynamic SQL in SP.... ugghh)

he is talking about static queries, that just happen to be stored in a database table instead of source code.

so it's also a case of Configuration Based Programming...

Simon

@AviD Yep.

AviD

18:51

btw @ThomasPornin Dynamic SQL generated on the database, could have specific security issues - do a search for SQL Smuggling :-)

@Simon I'll do you one better - what if the *application source code itself" was stored in the database....?

Simon

@AviD WOW.

AviD

Think about it! Deployment is now simply a question of copying some data! No more messing with pesky files! And compilation! And all that other crazy stuff!

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Morally that's what computers do anyway.

Think about it: on what kind of system does Linus Torvalds develop Linux kernel source code ?

AviD

We could make a product out of this! We could call it... umm.... Oracle Application Server.

I kid you not.

Simon

I'm gonna store my whole web pages in DB now.

AviD

18:54

@ThomasPornin hmm? I dont get you?

@Simon sure, you switching to Oracle too?

Simon

@AviD Hell yeah.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Replace "database" with "filesystem" and you'll see: it is customary to have all application code (source and binaries, and the freaking OS as well) stored inside the "database".

AviD

I'm helping a really large (financial) client shift off of that now. They had waaay too many secbugs, and it was just too hard for them to fix it using the given technology.

@ThomasPornin lol

Thomas Pornin

Mutatis mutandi, same situation. This is just about using a SQL database as the combination of a filesystem and some sort of virtual CPU.

AviD

okay, sure. However, for the sake of the above discussion, the reference was to network-connected RDBMS. Database was just a shorthand.

Pedant.

no, wait - you Wart Stealing Granny Basket.

Beaver Reeking Tourist Lover.

oh no, that ones better for @Simon! :D

Loving this: insult-generator.org

seems to also be good for generating passphrases ;-)

Simon

18:58

He's Canadian too now, you know.

AviD

@Simon yeah, but he's still French. And the French are anything but tourist lovers.

Simon

@AviD Hahahaha

AviD

You duck squeezing nut rider.

in another news, we had a nice harvest of pommie fruit from our tree. I am quite pleased, and pleasantly surprised.

I'd been bummed for a few months, the tree didnt look well, barely saw any fruit, those that I saw didnt look well, and those that did didnt last long (between little kids, cats, and bugs...).

Turns out we got over 20 really large, juicy ones, incredibly sweet with just the right amount of tartness.

David Freitag

For anyone who cares about the Syria stuff:

►

AviD

not as many as last year (3 or times as many), but overall a better crop. So I'm happy.

Lucas Kauffman

19:04

@RoryA I normally added all the bear his comments if I missed something the bear will probably comment on it anyway

Better crop? You growing good old Mari J? @Avid

AviD

@LucasKauffman of pommies....

pomegranates

Pomegranate

The pomegranate , botanical name Punica granatum, is a fruit-bearing deciduous shrub or small tree growing between tall. The pomegranate is widely considered to have originated in the vicinity of Iran and has been cultivated since ancient times. Today, it is widely cultivated throughout the Mediterranean region of southern Europe, the Middle East and Caucasus region, northern Africa and tropical Africa, the Indian subcontinent, Central Asia and the drier parts of southeast Asia. Introduced into Latin America and California by Spanish settlers in 1769, pomegranate is also cultivated in...

dang, what the hell is that pic??

incredibly random.

@DavidFreitag tl;dl. exec summary?

Simon

Girl with a pomegranate, by William-Adolphe Bouguereau, 1875

AviD

@Simon I know, but whyyyy

Simon

Because she's a girl with a pomegranate.

AviD

David Freitag

19:07

@AviD I'm watching it right now. They are talking about "What needs to be done as the situation unfolds" and "We need to find who is actually responsible" I'm actually quite surprised.

AviD

should have been that....

David Freitag

I'll get back to you once im done

AviD

@DavidFreitag did they actually express any specific, non-generic statement?

David Freitag

@AviD Not yet

Rory Alsop

@AviD I had never enjoyed a pomegranate until I had a juice drink squeezed for me by a street stall dude in Jerusalem

It was delicious

AviD

19:16

@RoryAlsop hahaha

Lucas Kauffman

I used to get a fresh glass of pomegranate juice every morning when I was in Turkey

AviD

yeah, chewing the seedy parts is a downer.

Rory Alsop

@AviD over here they are pretty hideous, but in that heat, fresh - it was lovely

AviD

@RoryAlsop I doubt that they would grow well in Scotland's climate.

they grow mostly in middle eastern summers.... which are a little different from, say, Scotland winters.

hell, they're different from your summers, too.

Rory Alsop

@AviD Summer is different from our summers

Thomas Pornin

19:22

@RoryAlsop Summer in Scotland is when the rain is cold but not freakin' cold.

Rory Alsop

@ThomasPornin nah - it never gets cold here either. Not like a proper Canadian winter

In the UK we just have middle of the road boring average weather, and in Scotland that average is a bit more dreich and dreary than England

Thomas Pornin

@RoryAlsop Rain does not get cold in Canada; it gets fluffy.

Rory Alsop

Most of the UK doesn't even get high winds - the only places where it gets over 150mph regularly is Orkney, Tiree and the north west

And our rain isn't so much cold as very very wet

Blatt would be a good name for it

AviD

Cold is relative; heat is absolute.

Rory Alsop

But the monsoon in India is much wetter

Our sun gives us a tan, but it isn't hot

Our snow - well, usually it is wet and grey. I learned to ski in the rain

really

David Freitag

19:30

@AviD his main point so far that has been concrete is that "There will be NO American boots on the ground in syria."

AviD

@DavidFreitag shhuuuuuurrree. We TOTALLY believe him. Right, guys?!?

David Freitag

@AviD Well, even then. That doesn't stop them from retaliating in such a way that we get affected on US soil

AviD

@DavidFreitag The Syrians are playing chess. The U.S. is playing Monopoly.

Or Battleship.

Or charades.

doesnt really matter, there are so many that are "the U.S." and everyone is doing something different.

bunch of thighbone licking sheep baskets.

David Freitag

@AviD we basically just want the rest of the world to agree that what the syrian government is doing is not only wrong, but punishable by a war crimes committee. The main focus is to get Germany and China to agree that the UN needs to get involved to force the Syrian government to Geneva. Once that happens the people of Syria should be able to construct a new government (or rather, we can put a CIA pawn in power).

Rory Alsop

@AviD a vomit-inducing assclown.

AviD

19:38

@RoryAlsop hehe, you using that site too?

you cork tossing face lotion?

Rory Alsop

Ah - just found a better site. It gives ones like this:

Thou spongy fool-born flirt-gill!

AviD

they dont even make sense!!

Rory Alsop

pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/index.html?

shakespearian insults

Thou cockered fly-bitten puttock!

AviD

lol, luvvit!

now, these I can use on my sister, in front of my mother.

"Whaaaaat? I'm just quoting Shakespeare!!" :D

Rory Alsop

hahahahaha

Shaekespeare was a perv

AviD

19:39

wasnt everybody in the Victorian era?

Rory Alsop

Thy sin's not accidental, but a trade.

love it

Thomas Pornin

@DavidFreitag Right now the said boots are in Jordan. Maybe they will just switch to battle sandals, Spartan-style.

Rory McCune

@AviD elizabethan

Thomas Pornin

@DavidFreitag Germany ? Aren't you confusing them with Russia ? I know they both are good villains with the accent and all, but they are not the same country.

David Freitag

@ThomasPornin No, Germany and China have been cock blocking the US at the UN. I'm not sure about Russia

Thomas Pornin

19:48

@RoryMcCune Yes. Under Victoria, Brits were pervs in hiding. They had learnt since Elizabethan times.

@DavidFreitag Germany is not member of the security council; they don't have the veto. Russia has.

Remember, that Putin guy: totally Russian he is.

In Germany they have Angela:

AviD

@RoryMcCune waddavah.

David Freitag

@ThomasPornin I'm just reiterating what i heard in the video.

AviD

It was in Erngland, so it dont matter anywhos.

Rory McCune

@AviD \/\/ youtube.com/watch?v=SLbFDMplZDs

AviD

Do americans care who is in the security council?

Rory McCune

19:51

@ThomasPornin well apart from the drugs, that was still out in the open then..

AviD

@RoryMcCune exactly.

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Well, yes, of course: what would be the point of being part of a select club if anybody else can be in it, too ?

AviD

@RoryMcCune wait, was ol' Billy in victorian or elizabethan times??

Rory McCune

@AviD he was in elizabethan times, thus the comment :)

Thomas Pornin

Americans don't really care about having UN approval, but they won't get it if another member of the security council vetoes them.

Usually Russia, can be China as well; for Iraq in 2003 it was France.

AviD

19:53

@ThomasPornin no, I meant they see it as: One american, and a bunch of for'ners who keep thinking they can tell Uncle Sam what to do.

@RoryMcCune okay, I think Dr.Who confused me.

Rory McCune

@AviD well yes wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff and all that...

AviD

@RoryMcCune Shakespeare is brilliant! But the Queen hates him...

TildalWave

You mods here should be bookmarking conversations, each time I open this chat I have no idea how far back I need to scroll to get a sense of what any of you are on about! :P

At least star the interesting bits, darnit!

Hast thou never an eye in thy head?

Thomas Pornin

@TildalWave There are interesting bits in the DMZ conversations ?

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin Well... to kill time. That Shakespearean insults generator is fun, for example. And not a single star on @RoryA's post till now.

CodesInChaos

20:04

I don't always write crypto code, but when I do, I look like Jeff Atwood

horrified at the code I'm writing

Scott Pack

Oh yeah. That's right bitches. I got 5 rep today. Suck it.

Thomas Pornin

@ScottPack The day is not over. You may yet reach +10 !

Scott Pack

Iffin I do then I will certainly be back to gloat more. Don't you worry your murderous little face.

Gilles

Scott Pack

Douchewaffle.

CodesInChaos

20:19

Just post something on stackoverflow. They're easy with rep over there

AviD

21:10

@CodesInChaos you know thats not him, right? It's from the book...

CodesInChaos

code complete

AviD

@ThomasPornin @ScottPack or 3....

CodesInChaos

but I like imagining that's what Jeff looks like

AviD

@CodesInChaos ayup, so I guess you do know :-)

CodesInChaos

never got through the book. So many pages mostly filled with stuff that's common sense

AviD

21:12

@ScottPack spam biting tree drinker

@CodesInChaos well, as someone wise once said, I have found that common sense is not so common, and what is common is not much sense.

CodesInChaos

Wrote some really ugly code today, and was surprised that it almost immediately worked

AviD

it's common sense to you, because you're not one of the sucky 60% of programmers.

Shuddup @ScottPack.

CodesInChaos

DRY? Not in my code

AviD

(just cuz I know you were about to write something like "I thought all programmers were sucky" or something like that...)

CodesInChaos

Arrays? Are you insane? Structs with numbered elements

AviD

21:14

hehe

CodesInChaos

that's the kind of code I write ATM

AviD

but, like all "Best Practices", the good devs know when to apply the principles, and when to not.

sometimes it is okay to RY. Though DRY is clearly more memorable and marketable than UDRYBSIIOTRY.

Scott Pack

22:07

@AviD How is that an insult?

AviD

@ScottPack it's subtle.

TildalWave

wrong chat... wanted to post in TL LOL

AviD

@TildalWave bad mod!

TildalWave

@AviD learning the ropes :P

AviD

@TildalWave we've all been there.... :)

@RoryMcCune organizing a conference is just a shedload of work. It's ridiculous.

Scott Pack

22:12

@TildalWave Dumbass.

TildalWave

@ScottPack I'm not the one using iPad and randomly click on things on the screen :P Thinking of which, now I have to wonder if this was merely one of those "calling from the pocket" things, but I'm not sure I wanna imagine how one'd do that with an iPad :)

Scott Pack

@TildalWave Hella pockets

tylerl

23:24

terrified client calls because his credit card gateway shut down his account saying he's been "hacked", and the forms payments he was submitting to them were crashing their system. I look at the logs they forwarded, and it appears that these particular "hackers" were trying to submit spam using his payment form.

And apparently Dermasis is the new Viagra

sigh

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