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02:54
More Mac malware, be advised: http://cnet.co/lGSgPm
Only one problem with that story: "It is designed to trick people into paying for supposed antimalware software that they don't need." Issue is that people do need antimalware software... just not this one.
03:24
Could someone shut this one down? It's probably one of (if not the) worst questions on the site, in terms of quality. It's already got two comments and one answer that all generally equate to "let me Google that for you".
-1
Q: What can NoScript do besides blocking JavaScript?

LanceBayneshttps://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/noscript/ Thank you!

...and it seems this sort of post is a trend with this guy...
-2
Q: Balabit Shell Control Box: How does it: "Control SSH"?

LanceBayneshttps://www.balabit.com/network-security/scb-opt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCGDn3tvL6M&NR=1 How does it: "Control SSH"?

 
5 hours later…
08:07
@ScottPack Yeah - very good point!
Calling this one exact duplicate. It's sort-of asking in a different way, but still the same question.
3
Q: Files for download and their hash numbers

LeoI'm far from being an expert in the IT security and I have this maybe naive question. Many downloadable files are deployed on websites together with the corresponding hash numbers to ensure their integrity. If a bad guy hacks the website and replaces the original file with its modified version, t...

08:40
@Iszi done
@GrahamLee Thanks
@GrahamLee - Regarding the "exact duplicate" above: I think it might be a better idea to try merging the two, instead of just closing the one and letting it die.
There's a few good answers in each of them.
indeed. I was just trying to think of whether to merge, close or wait and let the community decide
but having read your question it's clear that the newer q is a dupe
I'm all for a merge on this one.
And now... it's 0445 here. Time to go to bed, and again remind myself to never stop to check SE that one last time before bed.
08:46
heh - with me my regular site-checking dance takes around 15 mins. A few SE sites, twitter...
anyway, goodnight!
@GrahamLee Oh, if it was just "checking" the sites, it wouldn't be so bad. But I can never just "check". G'night.
@Iszi I really wanted to write a comment on that one saying, here's the support doc link but it got a bit too long. Hey, I got some up votes for it but like you say, i was pretty much a google proxy. I feel slightly violated.
 
3 hours later…
12:08
Had message back from Jeff Atwood regarding moving out of beta. He says we look good, there's a bit of a queue and to keep doing what we're doing.
7
A: Site promotion suggestions

Jeff AtwoodExcellent question! A few stats: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/8431/it-security http://stackexchange.com/sites?expand=true (bear in mind it's been 167 days, and we often let betas go on indefinitely if they are producing great content. Quality is, as they say, Job One.) Also ref...

read the comments on that answer for his update
12:41
Was Jeff coming on to you?
Must have a thing for soul patches.
@ScottPack Who doesn't :-)
Well, that's slightly annoying. The popup also triggers a notification sound.
twang - I came here, saw no use of my name, and eventually spotted the bit up the top of the page
what a weird way to do things
am awaiting "Crazy" though :-)
Oh - @Scott - have you seen
and also @Iszi
they do seem to be targeting educational establishments
100 free drobos - worth a punt?
I'm seriously tempted. Though I wonder how it would fly.
We're pretty much an EMC storage shop, and there might be a question as to whether I would be allowed to accept such a gift.
Now, it looks like I could do it as "Scott Pack, Human", as opposed to "Scott Pack, Security Analyst".
12:58
Heh - human? Crazy talk
I don't think I have any way to persuade folks I deserve 100 drobos - well, I don't really. Will vote through June to see if I can win one, though.
That's my verbiage for distinguishing between me individual and me University employee.
Pretty much the same here.
Since I would be hitting it up for personal use...yeah. "Because I like Free Stuff(tm)" isn't a convincing argument.
Hahaha - very honest though
I suppose I could find a local women's shelter to do some volunteering time for.
@ScottPack tut tut
13:31
Yay, we've got another one that's a near-exact duplicate.
3
Q: Checking whether a password is derived from previous passwords.

StephenPaulgerOn a system I used several years ago users were forced to change passwords regularly and the new password was checked for similarity to previous passwords. I can see that previous passwords could be easily checked for equality with the new password by comparing the hash to a list of expired hash...

9
Q: How can a system enforce a minimum number of changed characters in passwords, without storing or processing old passwords in cleartext?

IsziIn some environments, it is required that users change a certain number of characters every time they create a new password. This is of course to prevent passwords from being easily-guessable, especially with knowledge of old passwords such as a departed employee might have for a shared service ...

(Real easy to recognize duplicates of your own questions.)
Oh, wow. Did I really just re-post @RoryAlsop's Drobo post?
It's too early in the morning here - I just wanted to make sure it got shared around to everyone who'd be interested.
@Iszi LOL
@Iszi Done
@RoryAlsop Thanks. Might want to consider merging instead of just closing that one. Looks like there's a good answer or two already posted.
oh - yep, will do, sorry
that's what i meant to do
So you can only vote once, or once per day?
/me doesn't feel like reading the long text
I think once per day - but I have to admit I got bored quickly as well
13:43
I'm busy attempting to make snmp my bitch.
@Iszi I think I need to clarify the question as I'm actually asking whether there is a secure way to do what was done on that system. I don't think there is.
@StephenPaulger That's still essentially the same as my question, is it not?
I'm asking how it can be done without keeping old passwords in cleartext - which is essentially the same (only, using the negative form) as asking how to do it securely.
that question says "when you change from one password to another how do you do such and such enforcement" and the answer is "get them to enter the old password"
my question is "when you change password is it possible to check it's not derived from all previous passwords"
13:47
@StephenPaulger Perhaps it will help to specify what kind of system you were accessing that had this enforcement, and if indeed it was checking "all previous passwords".
that's what it seemed to be doing, but it didn't specify which previous password it thought it was derived from
Of course it won't. And are you sure it was just checking for a derivative and not exact match?
it could have been lying I suppose, I suspect they just stored the passwords insecurely
What's the password history of the system?
I don't know, I only used the system. It was on a unix system, I'd rather not say where in case it is insecure.
13:50
With secure storage, the only password you can really get a good "similarity" check on is the current password - and only if you require entering the current password in the same dialog that submits the new one. Anything earlier than that (as mentioned in answers to my existing question) can only be checked for an exact match unless the passwords are in cleartext.
ok, then that answers my question
@StephenPaulger So, it is an exact duplicate, then.
Take a look at the non-accepted answers in my thread. Though I accepted @frankodwyer's answer, the others do a bit of a better job at spelling things out.
the comments on the accepted answer do
Oh, wait... was that merged already?
@RoryAlsop You're quick!
I think then, that some of the details I was alluding to were actually covered in other threads linked from that one. I'm sure I've seen it on here before.
@Iszi That's what she said.
13:55
I have seen a solution in a regulated global company - there was no check on derivations, but there was a password audit every 6 months
hashes of previous 20 passwords were brute forced (initially, then rainbowed) and we ran statistical analysis
@RoryAlsop If your password can be cracked within 6 months, it's too weak to begin with.
eventually gave up on the derived bit - 99% of people had passwords derived from earlier ones
@Iszi we ran a couple of cray supercomputers at them:-)
typically we'd get everyone's password in 4 days or less - but we were most concerned at the sub 1hr to crack
@RoryAlsop I'd be interested to know how long it would take to crack some of mine.
wish I still had access to the Crays
they were great fun
I think my peak length has been 32 characters, following all the usual rules.
13:58
if it wasn't for the fact that latency was so high we had a solution to running Quake 2 on the thing
:-)
@Iszi 32 could take....some time
@Iszi! Windows Firewall is denoted as WFP, yes?
@RoryAlsop Then you've got no chance at my WPA2 key.
@ScottPack I have a feeling there is an acronym for it, but that doesn't feel right.
Windows Filtering Platform is what I had in my head, hence those letters.
Just call it Windows Firewall, I say. Unless you're trying to condense it for a tweet. Then, well... get creative.
@Iszi WinFW
WinFW FTW
:-)
14:04
@RoryAlsop Indeed
In-D'd
Yeah... that's the kinda stuff that I do with my extra brain cycles, when they'd be better spent on SETI@home.
Wow. I'm 77 points away from mod tools!
@RoryAlsop So this means now is the time to take advantage of your rep before the limits go up!! Edit those tags and tag wikis and synonyms, edit really bad question titles, etc
@Iszi not for long...
@nealmcb LOL - I saw your meta post on this. I do try to get to the approve button as fast as possible, as do Graham and AviD - apologies if it takes a while
@nealmcb I hate knowing the limits are going to be jacked up when we go Gold. Some things (mod tools, particularly) become 4x more expensive!
At least I should still retain full edit privileges.
I'll be losing close votes for another 1k rep though.
I think that's the only one I'll really miss.
@nealmcb Hoping to make it to 10k before we go gold
@RoryAlsop Not running for mod election?
14:17
Oh - probably - hadn't really looked into it. I quite enjoy it, and thus far only get mild banter, not flamed, when I mess up so yeah
I wonder who all our diamond mods are, here? I know you, @AviD, and @GrahamLee for sure. Anyone else I'm just not thinking of? Are there any that have gone inactive?
Jeff and Dori are the other two
across all SE
@RoryAlsop There's more than just them, and I don't count SEI folk unless they're really active contributors to the general community.
we only have those 5 - says so on the mods page (sorry you can't see it@-)
me, AviD, Graham, Jeff and Dori
Looks like it is indeed just you, @AviD, and @GrahamLee, according to the About. Could swear there was one or two others from the AppSec days.
Y'know... @Dori always seems to be lurking. Have we ever actually heard from her?
14:25
Yes - I think she lurks on all rooms like a magic fairy that can be called by a single invocation of her name. (Unlike Candyman - who requires 3...)
So how do merging and closing compare; when to use which? Is there a way to see the text of the merged question after a merge?
@GrahamLee - Your Careers invite tweet didn't work.
Looks like the invite links are serialized or something.
@nealmcb I say merge when both questions have some good answers to them. When the duplicate doesn't have any answers, or the answers are of generally low quality, just close.
@nealmcb I learned, after doing it wrongly, that closing then merging avoids orphaned answers and moves the existing answers over to the master question. Closing as duplicate left me with a bit of cleanup work once
@Iszi yeah, what he said
@nealmcb I don't see an easy way to jump back to the closed question from the merge-baby.
@RoryAlsop Do you have to close and merge, separately?
Anyone know where (if anywhwere) @JeffAtwood usually hangs out, for chat?
@Iszi no - it should just work if you do merge, I just worry over much
@Iszi regularly in the Teacher's Lounge but it is mods only
14:35
@RoryAlsop Crap. Wanted to ask him if there was a way I could get accounts merged.
@Iszi probably because I have 5 invites and 1700 twitter followers.
Kinda didn't want to post to Meta though because I'm just an odd pickle, and I'm not ready to do it just now either - I'm just curious if it can be done, and how difficult it would be.
@nealmcb when a question is merged, it's locked and all the answers are migrated but you can still see the original question text at the original question URL.
@GrahamLee But, there's no reference from the merge result to the original question.
@Iszi no, but then there's no need for one. It is presumably substantively the same as the question you're reading.
14:41
@GrahamLee True. However, at the same time, some questions can be "exact duplicates" but be asked in very different ways - one way perhaps being more clear than the other.
Welcome @drachenstern
I wonder what the invitation criteria are for Careers.SO?
And is Careers.SO still only for programmers?
More or less, but there are some sysadmin on there
the invitation criteria are to convince someone with invites to give you one (ahem) or to score really highly on the SO site by rep and I believe by badge
@drachenstern I was more interested in the particulars of the latter.
I'm presuming they're limited to "trusted users" and above, to begin with.
I got invited to that, for my python answers, I don't know who by it just said "we"
I'm not entirely sure I need/want it, but it said I had 30 days to sign up and who knows I might want it in the future :)
14:46
I've only had a couple of messages via it.
@StephenPaulger Welcome, by the way. (In case I haven't already said.) Looks like we're getting something of an influx of new users to chat today.
three invitations, of which two were relevant (but I wasn't interested in any of them)
I can't say I've noticed the chat before, perhaps it is somehow more prominent
I know the diamonds have put a banner on the main site from time to time, to advertise.
@GrahamLee I got an invitation; the mail began with: 'We’re impressed by your “java” tag answers on Stack Overflow'
14:51
Darn. I was sort-of hoping a rep recalc might turn up the 33 that I need...
@ThomasPornin There's another question - do the site-initiated (not user-shared) invites only work off SO rep/questions/data?
@Iszi @ThomasPornin one thing I've noticed is that you can't refer to beta sites in your careers profile :(
@GrahamLee But... that's where most of my rep is!
Yeah, and I'm just a lurker around these parts. You'll see me flash across the screen regularly, I'm sure. I like the idea of the site, but I'm not very high on the knowledge end of things, just common sense.
/me lurking
@Iszi same here
well, I've got high enough SO reputation, but then it's here
Mine goes RPG, then ITSec, then SU.
14:54
@Iszi no, @drachenstern deleted the thread
After that, it's all >500.
@Iszi For all I know, the site-initiated invites might be entirely manual.
@GrahamLee Oh, so when you delete your chat post it nukes any posts that refer to it?
@Iszi no, I have diamond powers
@Iszi dunno, try it
14:55
it's like voodoo ;)
@drachenstern How do you have diamond powers here?
all the SE site mods have mod powers on all public rooms on chat.se
@drachenstern Right, but this is ITSec.
Ooooh.
the trilogy mods idk about, but I presume they do
I'm... not sure how I feel about that.
14:56
but, I'm not a mod on the chat.so servers
@Iszi given the subject matter of those two posts, I felt they should be removed. I don't normally do that
So anyways, I didn't mean to ruin the ongoing conversation, and I do need to get back to this paycheck thing ;)
@drachenstern I totally understand, and don't have a problem with that... I just don't know how I feel about people who aren't really vetted members of our community (or members of SEI) having diamond powers over our chat room.
@Iszi consider us janitors. That's all we do.
@Iszi how much real-world damage has it caused?
@GrahamLee This time, not much. I guess I just overthink things too often.
@Iszi and hence, ITSec ;)
14:59
@drachenstern Bingo. We call it "Principle of Least Privilege".
2
Or, in the NIST world, "AC-06".
@Iszi the question is what privileges are appropriate. Is it better that a ♦ from a different site can jump in and deal with problems here, or better that you have to be a security ♦ to ♦ security chat?
Bear in mind that both myself and @drachenstern are pro tem ♦s so no-one voted for either of us ;)
And bear in mind that we are monitored too. Who watches the watchers? Jeff Atwood of course ;)
Oooh- I was on one phone call and missed all this excitement
@RoryAlsop I broke 2k!
Yay! - more privs
15:04
Besides, I seriously just treat my job as a mod like a janitor. Go around sweeping up the dirty bits, removing the graffiti, calling the maintenance department as needed, etc.
@drachenstern :-)
@drachenstern You should hang out in The Comms Room then.
@Iszi Careers.SO can't be just for programmers. Most of my rep is here and guitars (both beta) and I only have 5 sites over 500 at all:-)
@drachenstern same here. Usually I only get involved in responding to mod flags, and only then when we don't have enough high-rep users for people to do things themselves.
15:05
@RoryAlsop Did you get an invite from Careers, or via someone else?
Careers I think
Congrats, @Iszi!
@ScottPack Thanks!
@GrahamLee oh, I clean up spelling and grammar too, and I've deleted some flags and bombed some spam answers, but otherwise I think I've just pretty well abstained from close-voting and the like
I've even left comments "I could close, but I think it's a good Q, let's see if the owner edits" etc
@drachenstern that seems like a good idea. At the start I was a little keen on close voting, but now leave it to the community
15:06
When I leave beta, and am still a site-mod, then we'll see about reversing that trend ;)
@drachenstern Mwahahahaha
@drachenstern I'd probably do the same, if all my votes were with the mod-hammer.
@Iszi yeah, that's part of it, I don't want to be too hasty.
Is there any feel for how long the time lag between close of beta and mod elections tends to be?
@Iszi yeah - is a pity you can't (as a mod) sometimes have 1 normal vote to close
@ScottPack You standing?
15:08
@RoryAlsop I honestly don't know. I tend not to put myself forward for such things, instead relying on, at least, a request or nomination.
@RoryAlsop Only workaround would be to build up a good sock-puppet account.
@RoryAlsop +1
@ScottPack I thought our system was nomination-based?
@Iszi LOL - did I tell you we have mod tools to spot that sort of thing
@RoryAlsop (well, actually +5 and automatically action)
15:09
@Iszi As I recall from the last SF round the candidates had to put themselves up, and then voting happened.
@ScottPack yep
A couple of people put in their hats at the request of guys in chat, but no official nominations.
@RoryAlsop I think I recall something in Meta, saying that sock puppets were okay as long as they weren't abused.
I think if all the pro-tems run, we'll have our team already.
@Iszi - oh, just as alternate personalities (eg for anonymous posting of more sensitive questions) - yeah that works
With the exception of that one asshole from up North, we seem to have a pretty good team.
15:13
erm - erm - north -...?
ahh - canadians
:-)
I flew over there the other day
very white
Not a whole lot of sun. You'll only really get good VitD production on the coasts.
Where do you find stats for a gold site?
there is a full api with incredible stats
hang on - will get the link
data.se?
Or is it a mod thing?
I'm mostly looking for just the user count.
15:15
nah - isn't a mod thing
data.se has most, and the stackapps has useful stuff based off the core data and api
The problem with data is either finding a query that you like, or building one out to actually get the data that you want.
Well, just looking at the few sites I know of off the top of my head that have gone through the full Beta process and all (Gaming, Cooking, English), it seems only 3 mods get elected. So, it looks like our team (presuming all pro-tems run) is full.
As a non-SO user, that query would be rahter silly :)
15:20
@ScottPack - I have nearly 500 there and that one returns nothing for me, but it looked amusing
@Ams Evening
How do?
@Ams for SE?
is this still with regard to yesterday's conversation?
@Ams If you want, I can pop onto the moderators chat room and ask there
what's the debate? Permalink?
@Ams - there is a solution. Name will stick if just deleted, so first change name to anonymous, then delete
the guys over on mods chat have done it many times - took about 1 minute to get the answer once I had asked it:-)
so I can do that for you as a mod if you want
yep, or I can do it
15:39
Are you going to change your gravatar to a creepy mask?
@ScottPack who me? Am I not looking handsome any more :-(
@RoryAlsop No, the guy who's changing his name to Anonymous :)
I can go into mod tools and delete you if you are sure
You, @RoryAlsop, are just as handsome as always.
@Ams okay - sorry to see you go. Feel free to come back anonymously:-)
15:41
@Ams Yeah, I remember. It is a shame, you've been a great contributor.
I was making a joke to the group called, "Anonymous" that goes around using the 'V' mask as their symbol.
wow - comes up with a long list of all the things deleted/normalised
that just deleted you from itsec.se - think to delete from here I also need to go into chat mod tools
do you want me to do that?
@Ams I have a 'destroy user' button :-)
ooh, what happens if you delete a user while he's chatting here?
@RoryAlsop That right there is a beautiful design
do we hear disembodied voices>
let's find out shall we:-)
done -
15:44
Of course, it takes a while for name changes to propagate.
Your old name is still showing up for me.
I'm guessing nothing happens until Ams logs out
SE is a Windows stack after all. Have you tried turning it off and on again?
2
@ScottPack LOL
Is this a real question -
0
Q: Is there a way to bypass the ActiveX not-marked-as-safe check?

KnuWould cross-site scripting be the tool of choice? I wanna use WScript.Shell without having to change the internet zone option. missing tags I can't add: vbscript, internet-explorer

The title is, but the body of the q I'm not so sure about
@RoryAlsop Yeah, I'm not so sure about it either.
@RoryAlsop me three!
15:57
Sounds like three psuedo-close votes.
@Anonymous - guessing max propagation time won't be more than a day
@Iszi it does. Happier if community closes it:-)
@RoryAlsop Well, you've now got two official votes.
I left a wee comment just to see if the owner may improve
Yeah, he's new here but not to SE.
He's got over 1k on SO.
@GrahamLee But some of the answers in the merged question refer to how the other question was worded - leads to confusion.
16:07
@nealmcb Ah, that too. Does the merge process give you any opportunity to edit the final thread before the merge is done? Like, view both questions side-by-side, with the answers below, and re-compose the final question?
@Iszi Anyone can edit to update it if necessary
@RoryAlsop Acknowledged. But I still think it should be a part of the merge process.
@Iszi yeah - I'd agree, but wonder the best way to implement that
@RoryAlsop "Write Question" pane top-center. Both questions side-by-side below it. All answers below those.
Forces you to at least think about it for a second, even if all you do is just copy-paste one of the originating questions whole.
@Iszi I see what you mean - you should pop it as a request over on meta
gotta run - time to drop the kids off at the pool. (No @Graham, that is not a euphemism...:-)
16:14
moi? Innocent little moi?
@RoryAlsop @GrahamLee @AviD - I'd feel a bit better if it came from a diamond, since you guys are familiar with the existing interface and process flow.
@Iszi Well. <quotes="finger">familiar</quotes>
@ScottPack I'm not sure I really get the usage of the <quotes> tag here, but I think I get the gist.
existing process flow: I ask question on meta, Jeff closes.
@GrahamLee Not the "process flow" I was referring to, but I sympathize.
16:20
@GrahamLee Well, first he has to make a comment about how you're doing it wrong, then he closes :)
@ScottPack my favourite was on the "link to this question" button.
"You're all doing it wrong, but we'll fix it anyway. You cretins."
@ScottPack Permalink button.
To the post that he's referring to....
Remember how you used to have to right-click and copy?
16:22
@Iszi That's what I still do.
@ScottPack Right, but now you get the more intuitive option of left-click for a pop-up with the permalink text.
That's weird.
hmmm, can't find it now
Gorrammit @Graham!
@ScottPack I don't think it's weird. I think it's exactly what a permalink should do. If I click on the permalink, I don't want to just re-open the question I'm already on - I want the link itself.
16:27
doesn't help that blog.stackoverflow.com has most entries tagged under 'stackexchange'...
@Iszi You kids today what with your "semantic" webs. Why in my day, we used gopher, and we liked it!
@ScottPack correction: we used gopher.
Ruhroh raggy, our stats are slipping
16:53
Wonder who's gonna ask the magic 1,000th question? Three to go!
 
2 hours later…
18:48
Need an 8-outlet surge strip with a 20' cord. Anyone have particular recommendations?
Is there some ROT13 support integrated in Evolution (the default mail application in Ubuntu) ?
 
1 hour later…
20:19
@ThomasPornin uggc://znvy.tabzr.bet/nepuvirf/ribyhgvba-yvfg/2004-Abirzore/zft00433.ugzy
Does StackExchange support ROT13? :)
(Emacs does....)
21:04
@Iszi I prepped one this morning, and have been waiting
 
2 hours later…
23:10
@ScottPack heh - 2 questions to go. Who'll break first?
And mine is sitting on my screen at the office. Chances are I won't be 1000
Unless I find a sufficient number of bad ones to flag for mod-hammering.
hahahaha - and it won't be me, as I'm about to go to bed...
slacker
well, have been interviewing and chatting to 32 companies so far this week
and have been challenged to beat my friend Andrew Aus who has the current world record on Anotelia44
(it's a Mensa thing :-)
I reckon I can score higher than him
considering I managed to answer half of them in the last 4 hours
but brain dead now
oh - and was looking at our stats. Over 50% of all our traffic is from Google. Rory McCune's SDL post was number 5 on google search for SDL 2 hours after he posted it. Not half bad
@RoryAlsop That's really good!
23:22
That is one of the core metrics the SE team look for. Early on, most of our traffic was internal, but it has shot up since March
right - really is bedtime. Catch you later
G'night!

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