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00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 23:00

12:18 AM
@Jis12yearsold. for some reason, those keyboard overlays that were a thing in the 90s came to mind...
then I realised you probably have noooooo idea what those were
3 hours later…
2:50 AM
Well, I finally got to fully deobfuscating the JS from malware a year ago:
A: Is this a Javascript virus?

forestIt most certainly is malware. It uses JavaScript with ActiveX* and VBScript to download and execute a stage two payload that does something else. Although it is written in JavaScript, it is not executed in the browser. Instead, it is executed in the Windows Script Host when it is double-clicked. ...

At least now the variable names aren't totally random.
3:40 AM
For a given Linux version, should pam_unix.so be the same for all machines with the same version? Can I check if pam_unix.so was tampered with by comparing its hash?
2 hours later…
5:13 AM
@forest lol
2 hours later…
7:08 AM
@forest I'll have to try it again :D
@forest Yeah, probably GNOME :D I have 64GB in this machine now so I can't see not enough RAM being the cause.
@JourneymanGeek Yeah no idea :D
@ThoriumBR oh wow yes, I had fluxbox too
@forest Heh :d
kinda like this, but for 'real' keyboards
Oh wow, hahaha.
Yeah, I couldn't get used to I3 at all...
But I guess I should give it more time.
By the way, if anyone wanted a method for telling whether a community is a circlejerk or not, I got one for you.
I went into a chatroom yesterday, there were 4000 people in it. I asked a question (quite a simple but technical question) which was regarding the chatroom's topic.
In the space of 15 minutes, 300 people read the message.
How many do you think were able to answer me?
1? 5? 50?
Well the answer is... 0. Not a single person out of 300 could answer me, in a chatroom specifically designed for the topic I asked about.
That. Is. A. Cirlejerk. One where people pretend to know a lot but actually know nothing so instead of learning they like to sit there and pretend that they know things by hijacking other's comments and parroting them back at everyone else who joins.
If I ask a question here, I almost always get an answer.
7:28 AM
Or they're hanging out so they'd learn something ;)
Yeah, maybe.
But 300 people not a single could answer me.
That says an awful lot....
When by comparison we have 20 people who come here in total and I always get answers to my questions even if they're extremely technical.
And when nobody could answer me... That is when I realised I my choice to not go to chatrooms often... is a good one.
@Jis12yearsold. A chat room with 4000 people is going to be shit anyways. I can't imagine knowledgeable people wasting time there because 4000 people collectively produce too much crap.
@nobody Yeah, agreed.
Anyway, this is precisely the reason why I am not part of such chatrooms. I figured it'd been a while since I joined one, I had a question, let's see if anyone can answer it...
Turns out no, nobody could answer it. As I said, circlejerk.
I waited 30 minutes in total, didn't get an answer and decided to leave...
@Jis12yearsold. sounds like my experience of IRC channels on freenode :D
I have no problem with shit posting or fun, we do it a lot here! But when I ask a question here, I get answers too. It isn't just constant shit posting and this room doesn't really have a specific topic - it's anything infosec. That room was one topic, 4000 people dedicated to just one thing.
Yet nobody could answer a pretty simple question about that one thing the entire room was dedicated to...
@JourneymanGeek Yeah freenode is also a mess in my experience.
7:37 AM
@Jis12yearsold. actually that's the dilemma SE has :D
Do you focus on quality (at the expense of seeming insular) or quantity
Right, but it was literally just a question which needed a few links being pasted back...
Nobody could even do that.
That's idiotic.
But yeah there is a point where quality makes you seem too elitist so nobody contributes at all...
7:59 AM
floofer gets wash
so cute.
8:46 AM
tis funny
the best place for gentoo help? #gentoo-chat, the unoffical chat channel
but only if you're not a dick :D
#gentoo helps, slowly, but it's far too full of crazys and noobs and other people who also need help.
9:04 AM
fucking hell...
I should not have stayed up until 4 in the morning to play EFT
What even are Wikipedia's example images?!
"Here's my server room with my lv 16 monk in the background."
@MechMK1 tired?
@Jis12yearsold. Yeah, besides having a pulse of 200 at 4 in the morning isn't a good idea
Ever played EFT?
i typed that
and my left wrist
has gone
like ive been stabbed
fuck, that is painful
9:10 AM
Are you sure you don't need a medic?
yeah ive played eft
not much though#
I just started
when it fiursrt came out
Literally first game, shot some player in the face, then his friend shot me in the face
EFT in a nutshell
1 hour later…
10:16 AM
If you want to troll in Tarkov, lay in the grass and sing "Я все еще во сне. Пожиратель змей" when people walk past
10:57 AM
I'm back.
My left wrist is really hurting but, we move.
@MechMK1 Hahah, yes that is entirely accurate.
@Jis12yearsold. Do we don't, you go to a doctor now
@nobody I can't go today :D
I am busy.
Then tomorrow
I'll be fine. I had some painkillers.
Painkillers won't cure you, just suppress the problem
11:00 AM
I know.
I will book an appointment.
But it won't be this week, probably not even next.
NHS is maxed out. Probably will be three weeks or something, it's okay.
Time for my daily check of the news...
Time for me to run before J's rants start :)
My wrist hurts too much for me to be able to rant.
11:45 AM
@Jis12yearsold. Have you thought about replacing it with a prothesis? This way you'll be a real cyber hacker. In the real sense of the words.
@A.Hersean Hahahahahahha.
I am too scared of surgeries and all things like that to even consider doing that.
11:58 AM
But then we could call you Johnny Silverhand!
12:18 PM
I wouldn't mind prothesis for some of my joints
the ones that hurt at least.
12:37 PM
That is true.
But I'm a pussy.
I don't like the idea of having that done, or whatever.
1:25 PM
BTC is finally crashing
I hope I'll get some GPUs then
time to buy?
@MechMK1 Nvidia's entire line's getting hash limited too
@JourneymanGeek Hash limited?
@MechMK1 basically firmware and driver restrictions on crypto mining
What a load of BS
What if you need a cracking rig?
1:27 PM
hacked firmware are bound to appear to bypass this limitation
@MechMK1 hm, its only for etherium... and man, there's more fun ways to do that
Like buying old tesla cards from ebay (and apparently they're usable for gaming if you use another card for output and do a registry hack)
@MechMK1 I don't think password cracking's limited?
@JourneymanGeek Doesn't work.
Someone bypassed it in less than 3 days.
@Jis12yearsold. Well, then we can watch nvidia get bad publicity and no one get cards...
so... about status quo?
@A.Hersean Probably not for a while. They are still miles behind manufacturing demands. This will make a positive impact for sure. But it will still be a while before we're caught up or back to anything reasonable.
@JourneymanGeek Hah, yeah :D
@Jis12yearsold. *Time to buy coins? (not GPUs)
1:30 PM
@MechMK1 Pretty sure their firmware limiter is specifically for mining operations. I don't believe it affects password hashing but I could be wrong.
(any coin, as a drop in bitcoin usually implies a drop in the other ones as well)
@A.Hersean Oh right :D
@A.Hersean shouldn't you wait until they've stopped dropping?
I don't know why people are so mad about BTC dropping - do you even realise how unusable it is right now?
It costs $17 to send $40.
That makes no sense.
It is a good thing it is dropping.
@nobody But then it will rise. One can't know in advance when it stops dropping.
1:33 PM
@Jis12yearsold. History is cyclic
Tulip mania (Dutch: tulpenmanie) was a period during the Dutch Golden Age when contract prices for some bulbs of the recently introduced and fashionable tulip reached extraordinarily high levels, and then dramatically collapsed in February 1637. It is generally considered to have been the first recorded speculative bubble or asset bubble in history. In many ways, the tulip mania was more of a hitherto unknown socio-economic phenomenon than a significant economic crisis. It had no critical influence on the prosperity of the Dutch Republic, which was one of the world's leading economic and financial...
@JourneymanGeek Or people are just really stupid?
@Jis12yearsold. why not both?
Hah, probably both :D
But I think the parallels are undeniable
I recently made ~500€ for selling my old CSGO skins
I didn't even know I had so many valuable skins :D
@A.Hersean There's a very simple phrase for that:
> Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make bad times. Bad times make strong men.
The knife I had when I played counter-strike @MechMK1 is now worth around £1300...
I got it for £300...
It was a different time...
Reminds me of a CSGO skin betting site :D
Where I got an Asiimov AWP as "sign up gift" and I was like yeah right"
But why not, so I signed up, played one game, then cashed out
The admin immediately contacted me, saying I got the wrong gift by accident and I should send it back.
I asked what he meant, he said it was supposed to be StatTrak
I said "no thanks, I'm fine"
1:53 PM
He got really mad
I guess their bot was configured wrong to actually pay out
@Jis12yearsold. I don't have that much lying around to spend on a skin.
Unless it's real skin and I need a transplant, but then health care would cover that.
@A.Hersean Well, I didn't buy it.
I used to play CS. What I meant to say was, when I got it was £300.
But I won that via tournaments.
2:01 PM
Well, via points for winning
and then bought it
i should say
@A.Hersean or "It puts the lotion on the skin, or it gets the hose" ? :D
I was more thinking in the terms of an accidental burn. But I won't judge your fears (or kinks).
@MechMK1 So long time ago
used to collect coke bottle caps and ring pulls
for the codes on them
You could redeem the codes for points on the coke site, get random crap for free
think mouse pads, small towels, mugs, etc.
I had something stupid like 500 points on my account, meaning 500cans worth.
I loaded it one day at work, and they're doing a PS3 giveaway
I figure 'what the hell, the points are worthless anyway'
I play.... it crashes
I'm like well that sucks, I fired off a tweet to them, they told me they were aware, it was being looked into and my fee would be refunded.
20min or later it's back up
i try again
I win. :O.

I do a little dance, fill in my details, and then start to wonder
I play again... I win, I play again, I win, I play again, I wiun
In the end it said I'd won 5 PS3 bundles
I tweeted them again, and by this point the site had gone back down again too. They confirmed I'd won, but I would only get one console due to a bug ;)
2:22 PM
How is a company that has no infosec expertise supposed to choose a vendor to provide "solutions"?
Somebody in my industry (physical security) is holding a panel discussion with the vendor representatives about cybersecurity and one of the main questions they'll answer is apparently, "Umm, how much can you vendors just hold my hand so I don't have to think about it plz kthxbye"
To be clear, these are vendors selling CCTV cameras and camera software, not infosec companies
Like, these are the guys that write the vulnerable software in the first place... why would you ask them to hold your hand?
@FireQuacker I'm confused. Who's asking who?
But everybody is like, "I'm just a poor electrician, please tell me lies about how much you care about security so I can tell my customers that it's safe"
@nobody The people on the panel are all from the manufacturers who make the promises. They're being asked questions by the people who will use or install the cameras and software
The conference that set up the panel polled the end users for the kinds of questions to ask, and apparently end users want to know as little about infosec as possible
To be clear, it's been about 2 months since one of these manufacturers got hacked
One of the ones advertising how secure they are
So the just want to be told its secure, regardless of whether it is or not? That's easy to fix. Just hack 'em once they have installed the equipment and leak their videos
> the group managed to gain “Super Admin”-level access to Verkada’s system using a username and password they found publicly on the internet
2:38 PM
It's amazing all the dumb mistakes that get made
There was like a mass hack of Hikvision cameras a few years ago when it was discovered they had a backdoor in all their cameras... and then a bunch of people just installed the cameras at home and made them accessible to the Internet
But for the people who are having to make technology decisions, how do you make an informed decision without having much infosec chops?
@FireQuacker welcome to people?
"apparently end users want to know as little about infosec as possible"
@FireQuacker That's a big question. Because even if you hire someone, you still run the risk of hiring someone who knows nothing about infosec (which is basically at least half of the infosec industry)
@djsmiley2kStaysInside I'm going to turn into J, aren't I
i just believe most people choose to be lacking in knowledge
@nobody I'm guessing that security questionaires (like Standardized Information Gathering) might be helpful, but can people understand the answers?
2:49 PM
@FireQuacker Turn into me? O.o In what sense? :/
@djsmiley2kStaysInside Choosing to be lacking in knowledge = baffling to me.
@Jis12yearsold. Hating people
@FireQuacker Hah! Probably...
Eh, more just frustrated
I absolutely despise humans.
I find 95% of people totally intolerable.
The stats vary on the internet, actually.
In real life I hate people even more...
2:53 PM
You will be led to judgement like lambs to the slaughter--a simile whose existence, I might add, will not do your species any favors.
@JourneymanGeek Duh I was just about to post that :)
@JourneymanGeek :D Somehow I haven't seen that one before
@FireQuacker Well, that changes today :D
@FireQuacker You go on your national "cybersecurity" agency website, read the FAQ then ask them a question. Our national agency will redirect users to a competent (qualified by them) local company (ITSEF) that offers counseling in infosec.
@JourneymanGeek I am one of today's lucky 10,000
3:00 PM
(what do you mean non fungible? This mushroom has mould growing on it, special like)
3:13 PM
@JourneymanGeek lol
1 hour later…
4:33 PM
Welp, the panel finished. Honestly not sure I can say how well it went because I was too busy ranting in the webinar chat room
I hope I can find a replay
One of the guys seemed fairly honest
"How do you know you can trust us? ...um, you really can't."
2 hours later…
6:47 PM
Well, I am officially very stuck with this reverse engineering problem.
Well and truly stuck. Not just stuck but completely stationary. Out of ideas. One word; fucked.
7:19 PM
Use a bigger hammer
I was given that advice by one of the smartest people I know, so I now give it to you
(He was explaining his method of fixing a Windows PC)
Well the general advice when stuck with computers is to turn the computer back to sand.
@FireQuacker Heh.
Thanks, I'll see how that works...
No, I am genuinely just. Stuck. So, time to move onto a similar challenge so I don't go totally insane.
Hey insane people can accomplish insane things
I wish that were true for me...
I am already quite insane... Not accomplished a great deal.
But that's (somewhat) okay. Just need to do more, I guess.
Damn, still nobody answered forests question.
I want to know if I analysed a kernel security feature right - god damn it!
I need the assurance. I need the ego boost!
7:35 PM
forest happens to be the highest authority on kernel security here, so don't expect the question to receive an answer anytime soon. (Unless you manage to attract some Windows kernel dev's attention to it somehow)
Yeah, I was quite hoping someone could answer but I am very aware likely nobody can. Which is in-fact what I said at the time. Even if someone wanted to answer it, to answer it well.... Would require an awful amount of time investment.
There is really little to no information on the internet at all, it took me a lot of searching just to string together a basic understanding of static KDP there was even less information about dynamic.
Just wondering... is there any way to perform a search on user profiles? That way maybe we can see if there is any relevant windows developer on SO, and then maybe call their attention to the question
Hmm, not that I know of. I mean, the entire team which are responsible for the feature posted on the article - I guess the only thing we'd really be able to do is whack those names in a search engine.
This is the main author of the post: Andrea Allievi.
Funnily, he went from being a threat researcher to a kernel security engineer in just a few years, that is so impressive.
Based on his one and only answer, very likely it is him.
7:44 PM
Sad that he's not active
> Last seen Mar 7 '14 at 14:21
Yeah, sad indeed.
welps oh well, I guess.
I guess since forest doesn't like Windows, I'll be finding an answer to this for him myself :D
OSEE is not that cutting edge but it can't hurt to understand how it works anyways.
8:10 PM
Andrea Allievi's email address is on his website and on Github if you really want to contact him
@FireQuacker Does his website have an expired certificate for you?
It's the same address that's on Github
8:31 PM
I guess I can email him.
I'd feel quite bad though.
8:46 PM
You never know until you ask
If he doesn't want to answer he can ignore it
I guess you're quite right.
Folks, I'm not an information security professional or currently registered on this site, so I wanted to check whether a question would be on-topic and appropriate for the site. Someone recently sent me an article about the Linux malware RotaJakiro (no existing questions under that search term). I wanted to ask about current risks and whether a special type of A/V software would be required (e.g., something that handles root kits). Any posting advice?
Right, I am setting out on a mission to answer this fucking question.
I've found a 30 minute video explaining how the Windows VTL0 vs VTL1 kernels differ.
Which should be a strong foundation to give a decent answer as far as Static KDP is concerned.
We're just going to pretend that Dynamic KDP doesn't exist.
I'll see you all in a weeks time :D
(kidding although it really might take that long)
9:11 PM
@fixer1234 That sounds like it'd be on-topic.
Hey @forest :)
This is really interesting but my head hurts already :D
I'm more interested in how it can be applied to Linux.
I've found a bunch of information about that and, if I understand the concept correctly, it seems like it'd be fairly easy to do for anyone with kernel hacking and virtualization experience.
Yeah, well hopefully the answer will be able to somewhat help with that :D
9:21 PM
Nevermind. I just noticed that a significant number of users on the site and recent visitors to chat (including one who has since left chat), have a BDS gravitar. I don't care about people's politics, or this ignorant woke crap, but I find this offensive. It's hate speech, it's harmful, and it doesn't belong on SE. It's wrong for SE to allow its platform to be used to promote this. Sorry, but this isn't a place I want to be.
@fixer1234 OK, goodbye.
@Jis12yearsold. It's possible that @fixer1234 doesn't understand what it is and think it means we're anti-Jew (which we are not).
Well if he thinks that then he's an idiot also.
SO either way he's an idiot.
9:22 PM
Or just mislead.
That is a nicer way of putting it, yes.
I am just... Not that nice and far more critical of people (rightly or wrongly)
Anyway, @Jis12yearsold. probably a good idea to keep your tone down so mods who are looking at flags don't think that you're trying to be insulting intentionally (like calling people idiots).
@forest Fair point...
It is just.. Laughable. At best...
> ignorant woke crap
being against apartheid = woke. good one.
haha what
Direct quote from his message.
9:25 PM
Well, I'm for sure not "woke". I hate that term.
The term woke implies that being a good person is a bad thing, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I think "woke" is just one of those words that means "easily triggered".
Like, it's "woke" to say that soap dispensers are racist if dirt on the lens causes it to be less effective with black skin (yes, that was actually a thing for a while).
I love this part...
> its wrong for SE tor allow its platform to be used to promote this.
As opposed to what? Promoting genocide?
@Jis12yearsold. SE allows political avatars, so that's just incorrect.
Yeah, you're right actually. I'll change my profile picture to a photo of the IDF bombing 7 year old children....
9:30 PM
Anyway... virtualization is a happier subject. :)
Yeah, agreed.
Seems like I might learn quite a chunk by trying to answer this question.
If only Windows was open source.
Hah, yes. If only...
I am making a diagram, and this is really complex :D
Wow, okay. Well, this is a lot of fun :d
I like this, this is cool.
I think it could very well be snakeoil security.
What closed source or this feature? :d
9:44 PM
This feature.
Oh right, well, perhaps you might be right. I am not quite at that bit yet. I mean, in theory - it does seem like a great idea.
But the execution is paramount...
Exactly. I mean... trying to protect some code from other code in the same address space?
But dynamic KDP with W^X might be useful.
Yeah, do you want to know something quite funny?
There's a book coming out soon.
Which explains how W^X works for WIndows.
SO, an entire book, on just that...
9:48 PM
I dont understand why you need to PAY to know how that works
thats stupid
W^X on Windows is rather primitive anyway. PAX_MPROTECT does much better.
(Is the book about userspace or kernel W^X?)
I figure it makes up a wider windows internals release book.
So I'd imagine there's quite a lot in there, mostly to do with VBS it seemed.
I'll try find it.
Yeah, based on the past books, it seemed like these are written by Microsoft employees but I have no idea where the money goes, I assume Microsoft...
9:54 PM
yeah, of course. So they can keep doing shit like selling their own bugs to the US govt lol
Hahah, yeah :D
Well, I know you might not find so much use in the answer to this question, being you're more interested in this' *Nix application. But I do hope someone does...
Oh I'd find plenty of use in it. just because I prefer *nix doesn't mean I don't like to learn!
And admittedly Windows is more adventurous than Linux when it comes to kernel sec.
Although that's largely because their kernel is more bloated and has more surface area (scroll bars in kernelspace!?), so they need to implement more mitigations to compensate.
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