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Anonymous
10:06 PM
Right, well, before I go to bed.
 
Anonymous
Here's your diagram.
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
That's how you achieve KDP.
 
Anonymous
what a fucking mess
 
Anonymous
^ this is how a windows 10 system looks as of right now
 
Anonymous
10:08 PM
the entire OS is on top of a software hyper-v hypervisor
 
Anonymous
so that diagram is top down :)
 
Anonymous
What I didn't know yesterday, was that the HVCI itself runs INSIDE the secure kernel
 
Anonymous
and not in the hypervisor.
 
Anonymous
which is interesting.
 
Well the secure kernel controls the hypervisor. But I think that diagram is simplified.
That seems like a type II hypervisor (I always get I and II mixed up, I think II is correct).
But since the secure kernel controls it, you might as well say they're the same.
 
Anonymous
10:12 PM
Heh yes. I am going to try and add some more detail to this diagram tomorrow.
 
Anonymous
But, MSFT did themselves already make nice diagrams for how the IOMMU and SLAT functions. So I can just steal those and embed them in my answer.
 
Intel has some really good diagrams describing SLAT (well, EPT for them) and IOMMU stuff.
 
Anonymous
Oh wait, the secure kernel doesn't control the hypervisor.
 
Anonymous
The hypervisor controls both VTL0 and VTL1.
 
Anonymous
The hypervisor visualizes that right part of the diagram.
 
Anonymous
10:13 PM
That is described as being effectively another operating system.
 
Yeah so type II.
Well the hypervisor itself may run under, but VTL1 I think controls it in that there is no privilege boundary between them (highly permissive API).
 
Anonymous
Oh right, yes.
 
Anonymous
You're right :)
 
But it's fundamentally necessary for the hypervisor to run both.
 
Anonymous
Yup. Well, that was fun.
 
Anonymous
10:15 PM
Tomorrow I get to try and figure out how the fuck I put all of this in answer...
 
Anonymous
Easy to draw a diagram, much harder to explain how it all connects to make KDP...
 
Anonymous
Coherently, anyways.
 
The thing I'm most interested in is what exactly it tries to protect, and what its threat model is (which would help me understand whether or not it's actually effective).
 
Anonymous
Yeah, that is the bit I am to cover the most.
 
Anonymous
I mostly understand how it works now.
 
10:16 PM
If you can include a bypass that, due to fundamental design (i.e. not just a "bug"), can't be mitigated without reworking the KDP design, I'll bounty the answer. :P
 
Anonymous
That is, static KDP.
 
Anonymous
@forest HAHAHAHHAHAHA
 
Anonymous
I am not sure I am capable of such a feat...
 
Anonymous
I am not Jann Horn. But I'll give it a go...
 
Well, doesn't have to be a 0day. Even just linking to someone else's writeup.
 
Anonymous
10:17 PM
The way you say: "someone else's writeup" as if this even exists.
 
Anonymous
You know the annoying thing?
 
Anonymous
Cannot write about this on my blog afterwards.
 
Anonymous
Massive opsec fail..
 
Anonymous
No fuckin' posts on this shit at all
 
Anonymous
if i post an answer here then make a blog post = instant opsec fail.
 
10:18 PM
Well, you could falsify the claim that it's meant to protect from arbitrary code exec that's already in progress by loading a (signed, intentionally malicious) driver and see if you can disable KDP or otherwise pwn the kernel despite being unable to modify certain data structures.
@Jis12yearsold. I assume your blog links to your real identity?
 
Anonymous
No but I have in the past given it to employers and so that would allow them to get ahold of what I write here. Which I have no interest in.
 
So what's your threat model? Employers finding your views on SE?
 
Anonymous
No, you also knowing my other aliases' :D
 
Because it's a lot easier for OSINT to go SE chat -> blog than the other way around.
oh lol
 
Anonymous
Yeah, oddly this identity is closer to me than the other one.
 
Anonymous
10:20 PM
:)
 
Anonymous
Since, I don't give out this account. Nobody I know even knows I have a StackEx account let alone an InfoSecEx account.
 
I assume your employer doesn't want someone who supports Palestine? :P
 
Anonymous
Hahaha, among other things that may or may not be true, yes.
 
Anonymous
Also, I don't like the idea of my employer knowing I'm in a relationship!
 
Anonymous
Or that I am searching for other jobs...#
 
Anonymous
10:21 PM
Or a bunch of other stuff which I say here but not at work and vice versa..
 
Anonymous
As none of these things are relevant to work
 
Anonymous
but they are relevant to m y life...
 
Fair enough.
 
Anonymous
and as i said, oddly, i am closer to me here than I am at work :D
 
That's why I'm so glad I'm not stuck with an employer.
 
Anonymous
10:23 PM
Mmm, yes. It is quite an advantage.
 
Anonymous
Don't worry, will only take me another year worth of sleepless nights and no attention output before my girlfriend will leave me and I can port to the dark side :D
 
Good OPSEC is like process isolation. It'll allow you to safely handle multiple personas and identities safely, without one impacting any of the others.
 
Anonymous
I am getting much better at that, but still. I need more practice and more care.
 
Anonymous
I mean, the worst that happens with this case is that someone links the accounts and then they go through my logs (which I think I can delete in their entirety if I ask a mod nicely)
 
Anonymous
Nothing detrimental will happen... So, it's not life or death. But it is good practice...
 
10:26 PM
The best thing to do is have a heavy "internal whitelist" of actions you can take. So basically, use Tails, pwn some cheap server somewhere and use it to stage your attacks from. Don't discuss what you're doing with anyone. All research relevant to that campaign is to be done within Tails, etc.
 
Anonymous
What I love about you forest is you're always sharing ways to break the law optimally and carefully.
 
Anonymous
SO thoughtful :D
 
heh
 
Anonymous
Anyways, I need to sleep. I had the most eventful, uneventful day of RE..
 
Anonymous
Goodnight :D
 
Anonymous
10:29 PM
I'm going to dream up a design flaw, I hope!
 
Anonymous
I want that bounty from the forest himself!
 
g'night
 
Anonymous
oh quick question
 
Anonymous
how do i go to my drafts...
 
Anonymous
(i really dont know im serious)
 
10:30 PM
Drafts in posts?
 
Anonymous
Yes, for answers.
 
Click the "edited on" blue link at the bottom-middle of the post.
Oh wait, drafts?
Like, not submitted?
 
Anonymous
Yeah.
 
Anonymous
Sorry.
 
Anonymous
Should have been more specific...
 
10:31 PM
I don't think drafts are saved unless you start writing an answer and then leave.
Then the draft will be available as pre-typed out on the answer box.
 
Anonymous
Oh right, okay. That's fine then.
 
Anonymous
As long as it saves for me, just in-case! :D
 
As for getting a list of all drafts that are active... I don't know.
 
Anonymous
Awesome, thanks.
 
Anonymous
Goodnight :d
 
10:31 PM
I think it saves, but what I do is post the answer then delete it.
 
Anonymous
OOHHHH
 
That way you can see it, edit it, and undelete it whenever you want.
 
Anonymous
that's very smart, will do that now, actually :d
 
Anonymous
HAH! awesome. thank you.
 
np
 
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