The DMZ

MechMK1

6:28 AM

Woke up at 04:00 today and had to call an ambulance for my girlfriend. She's fine now, but damn...

MechMK1

7:37 AM

Song of the Day:

Stone Temple Pilots - Creep

►

I guess if there was one song that perfectly describes me, it'd either be "Creep" by Stone Temple Pilots, or "Paranoid" by Black Sabbath

John Zhau

8:04 AM

Security-wise, there's little difference between sh and bash right? Do I have to worry over using #!/usr/bin/bash instead of '#!/usr/bin/sh`?

MechMK1

@JohnZhau That really depends on the exact case. bash has some features built-in that could be used for malicious purposes, such as the built-in TCP connection like exec 5<>"/dev/tcp/${SERVER}/${PORT}"

There could also be some implementation-specific problems. I recall there was a 0 day a while ago that with a very specific version of bash and a script with just the right privileges, you could become root.

As for "Do I have to worry?" No.

The reason why you would specify one shell over the other is portability. For example, you can expect that most linux distros have /bin/sh installed, or at least some sh-compatible shell

You should only explicitly specify #!/bin/bash if you use bash-specific features not available in sh.

And when choosing whether or not to go down that route, ask yourself if the bash-only features are worth the reduced compatibility. For example, if you could do a thing with a bash-builtin in one line clearly and concisely, and you'll only run it on your machine, just use bash.

If you want to do some automation script that needs to run everywhere and it's basically the same thing in sh just different syntax, it's a no-brainer too

John Zhau

8:32 AM

I just have some scripts that need bash commands like source. There's all for personal use but also writable & executable. But then again, if someone gets in my account, they probably can write new files and use chmod as me anyway...

MechMK1

@JohnZhau If it's just you, don't worry at all

Such things only become relevant once you need to give other people restricted access to something

Like giving a group of employees limited administrative access to a server for maintainance, but not giving them full root access. A nightmare

Derpy

9:10 AM

Morning.

MechMK1

@Derpy Good morning!

Derpy

morning @MechMK1. I was just looking for you, wanted to share a little info you may find funny/pathetic.

Worth for laughing at anyway.

MechMK1

@Derpy Luckily you always know where to find me :D

Derpy

Remember when time ago we were chatting about microtransaction in mobile games?

MechMK1

@Derpy Of course I do

Derpy

9:14 AM

A friend just sent me this picture. Seems Gameloft reached a new low on the greed scale:

This is a "prize" (if you can call it prize in the first place) for a on-going event in one of their games.

Basically the price is....

MechMK1

@Derpy The privilege to pay them money :D

Derpy

A 7 day discount on In-App purchases.

MechMK1

Reminds me so much of Payday 2's notorious "Crime Fest". Did I ever tell you that story?

Derpy

@MechMK1 I don't think so :P

MechMK1

@Derpy Alright, so Payday 2 is like "Left 4 Dead but with bank robbers", basically

And when the game came out, there was an interview with one of the very high ups and they were asked "Will you include microtransactions?" - He answered: "No, never! And shame on you if you thought otherwise"

Then, during the 1 year anniversary, the "crime fest" was announced. Basically a big community event where the more people did something, the more stuff will be added to the game

And the big "prize" in the end was a character from Payday 1 returning, as far as I know

Year 2 came around, and a new "Crimefest" was announced

The community challenges became really weird this time around. Like, nr. of people who followed certain developers on twitter, etc...

And when the big final prize was hit, they revealed it was MICROTRANSACTIONS

Derpy

9:20 AM

@MechMK1 and the big prize was "we add microtransactions"?

MechMK1

And not just any! Literally "Equippuing this ultra-rare skin will give this weapon +4 dmg, which will magically push it over the 40dmg breakpoint"

Derpy

@MechMK1 guessed it, your premise kinda gave that away.

@MechMK1 at least some games have the decency to have visual-only items

MechMK1

Yes, it wasn't the best way to tell a story

@Derpy Yeah, it was awful

I literally uninstalled the game immediately

fuck that shit

And then IT GOT WORSE

They added consumable "money/xp boosters" for everyone in the lobby

Derpy

(for example I think Guild Wars buyable skins are only visual)

MechMK1

I don't mind buyable skins as long as I can get them in-game too. At least you can buy the skin you want

So if you just wanted to play a random lobby and didn't have a paid booster, you'd be kicked for someone who did

The game essentially added a Free-to-Play economy into a pay-to-play game

And the fact that they had a free weekend every other week showed they just wanted to make the game free to play and just didn't want to miss out on the 20 bucks initial fee

Derpy

9:24 AM

@MechMK1 well, depending on the game I could even tolerate money-only skins (servers still cost money, and Guild Wars I think it is just buy-to-play with no monthly fee so they kinda need a secondary income source)

But I get your point

MechMK1

@Derpy I understand the disdain for it. Developers can't be trusted these days and what is money-only today is "convenience-only" tomorrow, and suddenly the game is pay-to-win

The same happened with Payday 2. They added the Flamethrower and Molotovs as DLC. Then they added a new special enemy that just happens to be extremely easy to kill with a flamethrower or molotovs, and very hard to kill otherwise.

Though I guess it's part of the generic question:

If you design a game so that not every player has access to the same tools, how do you balance the game around that?

Derpy

@MechMK1 Oh, to be fair it is perfectly possible to end-up in "greedy hell" even if the add-on are purely cosmetic.

MechMK1

That's true. Fortnite is a prime example

Fortnite wants to be the "social space" for every kid to exist in, but self-expression comes at a fee. Every skin, every emote, every spray - it's all bought

You might say this mimics life - poor kids can't afford designer clothes afterall, and this is true, but it's deliberately put into Fortnite to create a society of Have's and Have-Not's

And in real life, you have so many more options to express yourself. The only limit is yourself and your creativity

Like this: getyarn.io/yarn-clip/aad86c41-4a03-4dbd-a662-128c3a356a6c

Even if everyone wears the same, everyone can express themselves differently if they want

Derpy

@MechMK1 well, luckily for me those aren't my trouble at all since they aren't the kind of games I play in the first place... but recently the PSN store had a "Japanese Game sale" so for fun I did some math on some of the more "fanservice games" add-ons.

You know, the ones that have TONS of "additional costume add-on"

Don't remember who was the worse offender (didn't really try to memorize the names) but I remember that buying all the dlc for some games would put you in the 250$ range....

MechMK1

@Derpy Pales in comparison to Train Simulator, selling you literal reskins of trains for 15 bucks

I mean, I'm not a fan of "fanservcie games" - no pun intended - but I doubt someone would buy all the DLC for all the characters

Derpy

9:37 AM

@MechMK1 "all the characters".... If only those were characters.....

Most of the time it was "all of the swimsuits"

Anyway....

in Sugarcube Corner, 1 hour ago, by Derpy

think this is worse.

MechMK1

Just 60 bucks? Cheap!

Derpy

Hint: the game is an Idle "build city" game, so the "characters"... you can't use them.

MechMK1

I'm just waiting for a game to explain to a kid how to enter credit card details correctly

Excuse me, I meant "I'm just waiting for a game to explain to a parent or legal guardian how to enter credit card details correctly" :^D

Derpy

it is like buying skin for the people you see running around... in Simcity

MechMK1

@Derpy Yeah. I don't know how the demographic of the game looks like, but I assume it's a whaleconomy

Derpy

9:41 AM

@MechMK1 obviously, it is.

And yet... I still think it is a (little) better than the mobile version of animal crossing.

MechMK1

That's like saying breaking all the fingers on your left hand is a little better than breaking all the fingers on your right hand.

Both should be avoided

Derpy

@MechMK1 intriguing comparison... yep, I think I agree.

MechMK1

It's sad how quickly videogames devolved from an art form into pure moneymaking schemes

Derpy

9:59 AM

@MechMK1 have you ever heard about the "Mario Kart fake online" thing?

MechMK1

@Derpy Yes!

It really upset me that developers would do that

But then, fake multiplayer is the staple of a ton of .io games

Derpy

@MechMK1 I am more upset by the fact they though some would fall for it. I mean, the way it was implemented... didn't make sense at all.

MechMK1

@Derpy I mean, I never played Mario Kart, so I don't know how "well" it worked, but the fact that they tried makes me upset

Derpy

@MechMK1 Well, I think I can point out the insanity very easily.

When you play Mario Kart offline on a console - single player, that is - the second you finish a race the results is calculated for every racer.

Standard practice, so you don't have to wait for the COM bots to finish.

MechMK1

@Derpy Of course. because players are not looking for a "realistic" simulation

Derpy

10:03 AM

The online mode in the mobile app did the same.

MechMK1

Yeah, pretty obvious there. Though in some games you could excuse that as saying the other racers are ghosts

Like Hill Climb Racing 2 does

Derpy

the second you finished the race - position didn't mater - the result were given.

MechMK1

You race against others, but they are intangible

Derpy

that isn't the point. The real problem is that you can't give the results if the other HUMAN players haven't finished racing yet.

So, how could the game give you the result the second you finished your race?

Others were still playing, and if the game worked the same for them... they would see the results only when they finished too....

so it is not like the race ended when the first player finished.

MechMK1

@Derpy Yes, but with the system I described earlier, it's possible. Someone raced the course in the past, and you essentially race an intangible ghost. The time is known beforehand, and so you could see the time the moment you finished.

Of course, for Mario Kart this would not work, as it would render "offensive" items impossible to do

Derpy

10:07 AM

@MechMK1 exactly

MechMK1

But you could implement a time-shifted racing game like this and it'd somewhat work

The problem is that a lot of people see phones these days as PC on the go, but that doesn't really work

When the first iPhone came out, Apple heavily advertised that their browser would be a regular browser just like on your PC. Turns out that mobile web interfaces are actually a good thing.

Same with mobile games: people want "full PC experiences", as you can see with Fortnite and PUBG on mobile, but that doesn't at all care about the limitations of a mobile device

Like, hey, my phone has a battery life, and if you add 5.000.000 particle effects to everything, my battery is gone sooner than I can complain about it

Derpy

@MechMK1 oh, don't worry about that. The battery will be consumed by the raging fire of the "always online" requirement.

Constant 4G connection, so that now your battery percentage can be read as "minutes left"

MechMK1

10:23 AM

@Derpy I fucking hate that. And oh, of course, advertisements everywhere

And it's even worse when all those advertisements don't fit the target demographic of the game at all

Sure, it's a game for kids, let's put in advertisments that are weirdly oversexualized

I swear, when I was playing Hill Climb Racing 2, a game that is rated E, it gave me tons of advertisements for basically camgirls

Like, what the fuck!?

And also gambling

Straight up online gambling with real world cash

Derpy

Yep, I have personally seen gambling ads pop up in many "for kids" games.

MechMK1

Even more, legitimate online casinos here deliberately immitate styles of games for kids (especially fortnite) and make them seem like "adventure games" when it's in reality slot machines

Who the fuck decided that advertising sugary drinks to kids was forbidden but advertising STRAIGHT UP FUCKING 𝑮𝑨𝑴𝑩𝑳𝑰𝑵𝑮 is okay!?

Derpy

@MechMK1 To be fair that isn't even LEGAL where I live, but it is the usual "Stray Lamb" strategy.

Company gives ads space to another company.

And if the ads are bad/illegal... not their fault.

Kinda the same on the web,

"Not my fault if the ads I accepted on my site gave you malware. Complain to the ads company"

MechMK1

Yes, the problem is that most of the time, they get away with it completely free

The ad company can then be like "Not our fault. The ad was misclassified due to human error"

They pay a small fine, nobody cares

Derpy

@MechMK1 because for some odd reason, it seems like thinking that they should be held responsible for what they host is pure madness

MechMK1

10:38 AM

It's hard to actually find a working solution

Advertisment space is like the wild west of the web

Derpy

IMHO, an "optimal" world should have the "host" (the site, the mobile game, whatever) pay a fine, and then they are free to seek compensation from the ads company. Instead, no one seems to pay.

MechMK1

I saw mobile ads just straight up showing footage of Pokemon and then claiming to be a "similar game"

@Derpy As I said, it seems to me that the ad company will likely be held liable

Derpy

Oh, the "Minecraft lookalike" world.

MechMK1

I don't even mind the "lookalikes" so much, because it's pretty obvious to kids that it's not the real deal. What bothers me is 1:1 copying someone else's content for your advertisment

Derpy

@MechMK1 since you mentioned it before, there is also the bulk of "ads does not even match the game"

MechMK1

10:45 AM

@Derpy Yes, the reason being that these companies are all registered in god knows where

So actually suing them for violating advertisement laws in some nation is a juristic nightmare

Derpy

My favorites are all the ads that look like "point&click" adventure games... when the actual game is a "match 3" Candy Crush clone

MechMK1

Like, okay, let's play this through:

A british person sees a gambling advertisment on a mobile game for kids, developed by a US company. The game uses an advertisment platform from a company registered on the cayman islands, but with headquaters in Beijing. The advertisement itself was made by an indian company, for an online casino registered in Luxembourg and operated from Russia.

How do you start?

Derpy

@MechMK1 Napalm?

MechMK1

Ah yes, reminds me when I was playing H3VR yesterday. I start with a 1911.

I loaded the gun and in my head I said "We can't expect God to do all the work"

Or when I got a Luger P08 and a STG-44... ahhh good times :D

Derpy

11:48 AM

@MechMK1 sorry, had to go afk for a while. Back now.

MechMK1

@Derpy All fine! Welcome back

Derpy

@MechMK1 Thanks. Back to the original topic, it is kinda lame but interesting in a way to see how greedy game produces always manage to find a way to push people into buying thing

Loot boxes for example, old ago you bought the box.

MechMK1

@Derpy Did you hear about The Culling Origins

Derpy

Now you can actually GET the box normally, but you need to buy the key. So basically they are trying to make you think "since I already got the box, it would be a waste to not spend money on it"

MechMK1

That's how Valve worked around randomized lootbox laws in the Netherlands

Instead of getting a random thing when you buy the box, you see an item you are guaranteed to get (some few cent item nobody cares about) but with a *chance* to also get a rare item in addition.

If you don't like that item, too bad, you need to buy the item to get the next one.

Derpy

11:59 AM

@MechMK1 The law was made and so was the workaround.

MechMK1

Which proves to me once and for all that "wE abIdE bY aLl ThE rEleVAnT lAwS And ReGuLaTIOnS" is just bullshit

Activision/Blizzard did the same shit in China

Derpy

@MechMK1 Kinda... stopped following Blizzard after Diablo 3.

MechMK1

Lootboxes were too heavily regulated, so in china, you don't purchase a loot box directly. Instead, you purchase a currency that is useless and can't be spent anywhere, and you get the Lootbox as "a gift"

If I was a chinese politician, and I saw them doing that shit, I'd feel so pissed off

Derpy

@MechMK1 I fear that is standard practice in many mobile games by now.

The cursed "in game premium currency"

MechMK1

It's not even that!

It's not even you buying diamonds and then buying lootboxes with diamonds

You are literally buying 10000 trashcoins and get 25 lootboxes "as a gift"

And the trashcoins then just pile up

Derpy

12:05 PM

oh, nice.

That said, I always wondered.. Premium currency....

Usually they give some "free tickets/gems/whatever" by watching ads, daily login and so on.

MechMK1

Ehh, usually when people say "premium currency" they mean a currency that you can use to do actually interesting stuff

@Derpy Exactly

Also, do you know the rainbow drops in that one final fantasy mobile game that isn't final fantasy?

Start's with G I think, but I can't recall the name

Derpy

I wonder.... is that "free" giveaway just a way to get you started..... "I have 100, I need 10 more for the item, I will now buy the rest" or it is actually required so that they can claim that the currency is given "for free" and what you buy are just boosters?

I mean, is the fact they give free coins tied to some regulation they are working around?

Derpy

12:25 PM

@MechMK1 The gatcha one? "DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY OPERA OMNIA"?

Fire Quacker

1:42 PM

@MechMK1 Wow! Sounds scary. I'm glad she's okay now.

Weird news story of the day: eBay apparently does a port scan of all browsers on Windows, looking for remote access tools

John Zhau

I'm seeing people in KOTH do `cat /dev/urandom > /dev/pts/some_num' (as root). I've tried it on my pty's but I'm not seeing anything. What does it do?

I'm also seeing people (in KOTH) print text on other people's shells. How would you do that?

John Zhau

2:37 PM

OK after some more testing I managed to answer both

> /dev/pts/2 sends stuff to a pty and /dev/urandom generates spam to be printed on other people's pty.

It just sends messages. It can't make people execute stuff.

MechMK1

@Derpy No, Granblue Fantasy

That's the name

@FireQuacker Yeah, but I feel fucked from sleeping like 3 hours

Derpy

3:56 PM