The DMZ

Simon

01:08

@kalina i.imgur.com/lLBcgod.gifv

David Freitag

01:36

This month hits the $10k mark on my loan

David Freitag

02:08

@Simon I like this one better. imgur.com/gallery/ECk6pfl

M'vy

07:13

Morning

Rоry McCune

07:59

Mornin' All

M'vy

hey @RоryMcCune

Rоry McCune

watcha' @M'vy hows your morning so far?

kalina

stretching and so much stretching

Rоry McCune

@kalina mornin'

kalina

back is all like pls let this be natural bending

guten tag

M'vy

08:03

@RоryMcCune Fine fine. Up to now it involved coffee

kalina

what to do what to do

new PC in october or immediate response to ssd failure

M'vy

Switching to German now? Guten Tag @kalina

kalina

NIET

Rоry McCune

@kalina well I don't think there's anything major on desktop PCs due out in October. Obv. there's the MS event but that'll be more surfaces and phones

kalina

why can you only get a quad core skylake but you can get octacore haswells

Rоry McCune

08:05

@kalina yeah they seem slow to ramp up the high-end stuff

kalina

they don't take into consideration my needs

just like every other stone hearted entity

M'vy

Yeah, that's the problem of having high-ends requirements

kalina

saying that the reviews are saying that the unlocked skylake chip vs the unlocked haswell chip only shows a "4-8%" increase in performance

M'vy

Yesterday I went to a pen shop, and left without buying one because they don't have either of my 1st choice, good enough 1st-choice-like, nor my 2nd choice. I hate myself.

Rоry McCune

@kalina and CPU is unlikely to be a bottleneck...

M'vy

08:17

@RоryMcCune I'm still running a 1st gen i7 without too many problems

kalina

@M'vy its my sandybridge powered machine that lost a disk lastnight

Rоry McCune

@M'vy indeed. it's been a while since, on a desktop machine that's been a big problem for me..

@kalina you could get one of these engadget.com/2015/09/22/samsung-950-pro-m4-ssd for your SSD requirements

looks nice and nippy

M'vy

@kalina :S

@RоryMcCune I'm not sure I have sockets for these

kalina

@RоryMcCune the motherboard in that machine doesn't support those

Rоry McCune

@M'vy yeah needs to be a quite modern board

@kalina i was thinking of your new PC :)

M'vy

08:19

@RоryMcCune Best I can do is SATA

Rоry McCune

@M'vy so, time for a new PC Then :op

kalina

@RоryMcCune well if the haswell 4790K that I already made music on is only 4-8% slower than the new bleeding edge super duper omgwow skylake then what's the point

M'vy

@RоryMcCune yeah... well. Not yet

kalina

might as well just buy a different kind of hardware

M'vy

@RоryMcCune though changing my WD Velociraptor for a SSD is planned soon.

kalina

08:21

like new super comfy chairs

Rоry McCune

@M'vy yeah spinnies are on the way out..

@kalina 'cause you need a new MBoard that supports M.2

actually thinking about it you can get a PCI card that does that

so you don't really need a new PC at all

just a PCI card + SSD

M'vy

@RоryMcCune Yeah, the thing is, I don't like it ticking to my face sometimes. I guess it's a cry for help

I just need to figure out a way to migrate my new Win10 on a new disk

Rоry McCune

@M'vy I've used these guys software in the past easeus.com/free-pc-transfer-software seemed to work ok..

kalina

removing all spinning disks from a pc, putting in big slow fans and having a fanless graphics card

is a really nice experience

M'vy

@RоryMcCune the problem is not the apps. But I need to transfert my licence

kalina

08:25

it's like using a thin client for the quiet but with so much more power

Rоry McCune

@M'vy I think if all you do is move it from one disk to another it should be ok

but don't quote me on that :)

M'vy

@RоryMcCune I've already seen something about making a restoration USB flash drive or something...

kalina

@M'vy yeah the wording on that seems to imply that if you upgrade you have to buy it again

I was going to reinstall windows 8 from DVD and then GWX it back up to Windows 10 and see what happens

M'vy

@kalina Tbh I've made the free migration to Win10 from a MSDNAA win 7 pro so...

kalina

but that would have been with a motherboard change

M'vy

08:27

If I have to I'll buy my first copy :))

kalina

for a hard disk change I doubt enough hardware changes to make you relicence

oh, one of my backup drives has disappeared as well

I wonder if I got some kind of electrical surge or something lastnight

M'vy

@kalina disappeared ?

kalina

disappeared

M'vy

Is it still in the device manager ?

kalina

I have a stack of seagate expansion disks because they stack nicely

and backup to all of them before periodically moving one somewhere safer and replacing it with a new disk

and one of those disks no longer turns on

M'vy

08:33

hmm

kalina

which isn't a big deal because by stack I mean 5 and by backup I mean simultaneously to all of them but it's strange to have two failures in the same day

Journeyman Geek

._.

I don't want to be a hardware snob but... seagate disks have the worst reliability

buuuut

if the disk is dead, keep the casing, replace the drive

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek It's pretty hit and miss in my experience. All manufacturers seems to have bad runs.

kalina

@JourneymanGeek be a hardware snob all you want, I use these because they're super cheap and they get like eight full writes before I never use them again

I'm doing the sensible "source from multiple suppliers, order one at a time" to avoid bad batches

34 secs ago, by kalina

I'm doing the sensible "source from multiple suppliers, order one at a time" to avoid bad batches

M'vy

yeah just saw the update :)

kalina

08:39

they're mostly "the same age" to me

but I don't know the rest of the logistics that went on between seagate and the company I bought them from

M'vy

It was a pipeline issue. I'm already replying while reading the last bits of conversations.

Journeyman Geek

@TerryChia: Not reaaaly

I've had excellent luck with HGST drives

they're uniformly good but hard to find

seagates tend to fail a lot, but there's worse models.

(backblaze's stats back me up)

WD has had bad batches, sometimes of enterprise drives but they're middle tier for me

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, my PC is running a Hitachi (back when Hitachi was still Hitachi). So far so good.

Journeyman Geek

If I was getting one drive, I'd get HGST.

If I was getting multiple, yeah, I'd spread it out

Rоry McCune

from the backblaze stats HGST seem best

but a bit more expensive

kalina

08:50

in all fairness, the various brands of ssd I have in my other machine are not the "best"

I mean OCZ didn't really have much of a rep for reliable drives afaik

and I think the other two are crucials

this is an unusual situation for me, though

since I've had a drive failure and there have been zero tears

because no data has been lost

whereas normally it's like the end of the world

Rоry McCune

so far touch fake wood I've had good luck with Samsung SSDs

had several, not had any problems with them

kalina

I thought SSDs were meant to fail in a read only mode anyway

Every single SSD failure I've ever heard of hasn't done that

Journeyman Geek

There's two kinds of SSD failures

the slow sort goes readonly. Sometimes the controller dies.

kalina

yeah but my sample size for "every" is like 12 so far

Journeyman Geek

I got a 840 on my laptop, and a 850pro on my desktop

I don't remember what my HGSTs are. I got a 3tb on my desktop, and 2 other drives that sort of float around. or maybe 3.

3

kalina

08:58

largest internal drive I have in use atm is 512GB

in fact my studio PC is the most inefficient use of space ever

since I have four 512GB drives and three of them contain identical information

because fires only effect one drive, honest

Journeyman Geek

o0

SSDs?

kalina

yes

Journeyman Geek

ahh ok

Not really if you're raiding them

or doing it for performance

kalina

they're not in raid and I'm not doing it for performance

Journeyman Geek

or ...

Ok, that's possibly inefficient then ;p

kalina

09:01

they should be in raid really, since that's how I ended up using them

MAYBE ONE DAY

probably around the day I get a new new pc

I'm still not completely sure on my backup process but I feel it's good enough

I guess what I need to do before going down the new PC route is analyse my workload and see if I would benefit from just going with more cores rather than more speed

since if going for an octa core haswell will be a bigger improvement than going for the skylake chip then I can order my new PC like now

and then spend the rest of the week berating myself for waiting for new things that are actually not that great

Rоry McCune

@kalina yeah if you're not heavily threaded more cores aren't likely to help so much

I run quite a few VMs which makes it more worthwhile

M'vy

:)

kalina

well firing up my DAW and loading up a project results in the spawning of like ~100 different processes for various things

so we can ignore the rest of that conversation I guess

strangely I've never spent time looking at task manager while making music

is there such a thing as a dual socket x99 lga2011-v3 motherboard

ie: a board that will take 2 8 core haswells

or do I have to go down the xeon route for multi cpu

Journeyman Geek

09:18

they won't be x99s

Xeons have different boards

I can't remember the models off the top of my head but I'd take a look at what a dell 7910 has, and work my way from there.

kalina

this is the part of building a new pc that I can't be bothered with

so this motherboard says it supports haswell asus.com/Motherboards/Z10PED8_WS

but the chip says it requiers a x99 motherboard

ooOOOooo 14 core hyperthreaded xeon

only €2k per chip

I'm not sure my workload would need 56 threads

Journeyman Geek

I kiiiinda doubt it

kalina

:)

so I can either downscale or upscale the number of instruments I use :p~

no, seriously

being far more pragmatic I'm not sure that CPU is worth the 10x increase in price over the other CPU

the googles say there won't be an "extreme edition" skylake and that if you're looking for one you should just get the 5960X

I guess the most important question to ask when building a PC is what color are you going to paint the case

since that determines the color of all of the components you need to buy

M'vy

I'm hungry

kalina

insert food then

M'vy

09:34

yeah well. Not planned until half an hour at least

I'll distract my mind with some podcast

paj28

@kalina - thanks for the nice answer on Windows 10

If you're interested in static code analysis, my B-Sides talk is now online youtube.com/watch?v=CG0OcrrSC_0

2

Rory McCune was there in person

kalina

@paj28 no problem, I enjoy the statistically improbable scenario in which I can contribute to sec.se

and grasp each instance of said scenario with at least 75% care

in other news, I really really really hate reading reviews and discussions about computer components

paj28

yeah, i need a TL;DR

kalina

it's making me sad having to absorb all of this information that I'm never going to use again

paj28

in fact TL;DR spend about £100 on your CPU

kalina

09:43

that would be unlikely to outperform my existing machines

Rоry McCune

@paj28 yeah I saw the track 1 stuff was up, need to watch the vid on pen test standardisation

I heard things got a bit heated in that talk

kalina

10:01

a heated talk? From somebody who uses sec.se? That never happens

We're world renowned for being awesome, calm, friendly, tolerant, patient, etc

Rоry McCune

@kalina ah no it wasn't a Sec.SE person giving it, but was at the same conf :)

kalina

was fire involved

OH MY

Rоry McCune

@kalina I'll need to watch the vid :)

kalina

after four hundred million upvotes on various answers, I've finally got my first accepted answer on sec.se

falls off chair

Rоry McCune

@kalina :op

kalina

10:11

I'm actually not sat on a chair, so I basically fell off the floor onto the floor

it was a .2cm drop

I am completely unharmed

Rоry McCune

@kalina I can see that a .2 cm drop wouldn't be too likely to be mega-dangerous

kalina

even if that .2cm was spikes

Arperum

dammit. Now I'm trying to find a situation where a 0.2cm drop is lethal. And that isn't completely ridiculous.

Like hanging 0.1cm above a pool of very deadly stuuf that will kill you on touch.

kalina

I may have no vacuumed my carpets this week but I doubt the turns it into a pool of deadly stuff that will kill me on touch

is there even such a thing as a liquid so deadly it will kill you instantly upon contact?

ok by my best estimation my new pc is going to cost ~3k

when my careface is less contorted in agony I shall have a second pass at it

TildalWave

@kalina there's M.2 to PCIe adapters, they shouldn't be expensive it's a perfectly straightforward thingy

here's one, costs $18.99 which I think is a bit much LOL

kalina

10:22

have PCs really got to the point where spending that kind of money provides you a max 10% increase in performance

TildalWave

hey 10% is a lot

Rоry McCune

@kalina I reckon that SSD I linked earlier would give you more than that for $359

kalina

@TildalWave not... really...

@RоryMcCune heh, reducing my boot speed by 10% would change it from 5 seconds after POST to 4.5 seconds after POST

TildalWave

well considering your previous SSD died prematurely, it's not all about speed either

Rоry McCune

@kalina but in general, Storage is the bottleneck for a lot of operations, so the SSD will provide an uplift in perceived responsiveness

TildalWave

10:26

so reality is more like "not only does it boot now, but it does that 10% faster than it used to"

kalina

@RоryMcCune but the machine that is being upgraded doesn't have storage bottlenecks that I've ever noticed

the bottleneck is more likely to be cpu/ram/bus/audio related I'd expect

TildalWave

Wait, we're spending your money and you want us to do that responsible? How does that work then? :D

kalina

I've never even seen a disk queue at 100% on that machine

Stack Exchange

I guess I need to apologize to my parents, friends, and the staff at Chuck E. Cheese's for all the times I called the cops on them.

kalina

@TildalWave pppfffffffffffff

Rоry McCune

10:29

@kalina well workload dependent I guess, I've always thought that with Storage being slower than RAM by quite a bit, it was the main thing to upgrade to get better perceived performance

kalina

I've got 16GB of RAM and have never filled it unless I've been actively trying to fill it

I guess the RAM would be a big upgrade this time around what with it going from DDR3 to DDR4

Rоry McCune

@kalina so that won't be the bottleneck, and I rarely see my CPU pegged at 100% for long, so that's why I always look to storage upgrades first

may well be flawed logic mind..

kalina

from testing this morning I get spiky 60-100% load across all cores during playback

why is b sides called b sides

b sides to me is the track that you knocked up while waiting for the a side to be signed

Rоry McCune

@kalina it was originally intended to run at the same time as larger better known confs, so it would be the B-Side to their A-Side

TildalWave

old vinyl singles, you actually had to turn the record

kalina

10:33

or something wild and experimental that you would otherwise perform live a few times and then ignore

@TildalWave pls, I have like 6000 vinyl records

Rоry McCune

over time that went away and now there are B-Sides confs where there is no larger one

but the name/branding stuck

TildalWave

@kalina then why do you ask what b sides is if you have 6000 of them?

kalina

@TildalWave because it's a weird name for a security conference

Rоry McCune

@kalina the first one featured people who's talks had been turned down for Blackhat in Vegas

Rory Alsop

It makes sense when seen as the small conf piggybacking off the larger one

kalina

10:35

@RoryAlsop I guess

Rоry McCune

yeah they've kind of outgrown the name

but I doubt they'll change it now

kalina

I love collecting vinyl records

Rоry McCune

too recognisable

kalina

they're such a rare thing now

I hate cleaning vinyl records, playing vinyl records, transporting vinyl records, organizing vinyl records

but collecting them is fun

TildalWave

@RоryMcCune they even have multiple tracks now no?

kalina

10:36

@RоryMcCune oh, this is an apt analogy then

since many B sides end up foreshadowing the future direction of the genre

TildalWave

@kalina that's what aliens will say when they encounter Voyager probes too :)

oh noes not another vinyl record!!

kalina

I appreciate that vinyl has a more organic sound but nothing beats digital for ease of use and convenience

it would be impractical for me to travel with the size of collection I carry digitally, as vinyl

TildalWave

what I didn't get is how come nobody used fractal compression for digital sound

kalina

I'd need like a bus

TildalWave

it seems a natural fit

Rory Alsop

10:41

How would they have used it

kalina

I read as far as "lossy" and then stopped reading

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop well the good thing about fractal compression is that while it's lossy it gives a pretty natural-like decoding at a lot higher resolution than it's stored

kalina

twentyfourbitlosslessorgohome

TildalWave

I always thought it would do really good with waveform

Rory Alsop

Yeah, but it wasn't invented back then, and now there is no use case for vinyl. People collect vinyl because of what it is

TildalWave

10:44

I know, I didn't mean it should have been used decades ago, I don't understand why it's not used now

kalina

@RoryAlsop extremely pretty when stacked along a wall with suitable lighting making it all look purple

with sharpie writing all over the unit it's stacked it splitting it by genre and then alphabetically

smudged, of course, since fucking left handers

Rory Alsop

Hahahahaha

kalina

and that's not even the extent of it

upon purchasing a record, I immediately remove it from its sleeve and then put the sleeve into storage, replacing said sleeve with a hard cardboard sleeve that I can then write on

so I have a rack full of vinyl and then several big boxes full of sleeves

all vinyl in said rack looks the same, making it basically impossible for anybody who doesn't know what they're looking for to find anything

TildalWave

So you're moving into bigger and bigger houses because of legacy problems? That sounds familiar...

kalina

the worst of it is, the original reason for this was to maintain resale value

since all the sleeves would be in perfect condition and I look after all of my vinyl

but in my last house the garage flooded and soaked all of the boxes full of sleeves

Rory Alsop

10:48

Noooo

kalina

c'est la vie

I suppose the next bit of irony is that both of my record decks developed the same fault and I never replaced them

so I have loads of records (and indeed keep buying them) but don't have a suitable method of playing them

incidentally, record decks that try and do digital funkyness with vinyl... just avoid them

all you need are a pair of technics 1200s

you don't need digital pitch shifting, platter position detection, digital lines out, timestretching, etc

and all of those things add far more electronics that can each fail independently and stop the device from working

like on the numark ttx1s, with a platter sensor

which detects if the platter is sat on the spindle

leaving you in a position where the deck will refuse to start spinning because it thinks the platter isn't on

TildalWave

@kalina OK but how about 24-bit lossless plus any-bit lossy that you can use to expand to whatever-bit pleases you that is as true to the source as it possibly can be without sacrificing too much storage space?

kalina

why is storage space even a factor for anything other than mobile playback?

TildalWave

of course, decompression to insane-bit would be really processing intensive, but at least we'd have some use for all those nice cores

Rory Alsop

At home I store lossless, because disc space is cheap

kalina

10:58

I can understand not wanting to fill your phone full of 24 bit wavs but I also don't believe you're going to be listening back in any kind of acceptable environment where environmental factors aren't going to ruin playback more than compression of the audio

but any other time...

TildalWave

the point is that even 24-bit is already lossy storage of a waveform that has in real life far greater resolution

kalina

I'm glad it took 30 minutes to get to your point

:p~

a digital representation of something analog is always going to be

but this conversation started on compression

TildalWave

yeah I know but fractal compression is basically describing the source, there's no real limit to playback resolution, it's in theory the closest thing to analog that digital can go (well, putting it bluntly)

kalina

I suppose to troubleshoot my performance I could just go and replace one component at a time (or as few as possible for a specific component) until I get the end result I want

starting with soundcard

but looking at sound cards, there really doesn't appear to be much in the way of change since I last looked

TildalWave

are there any soundcards that will let you stack them?

kalina

11:06

you mean like SLI for audio?

TildalWave

there used to be some Turtle Beach or something cards I think could do that

@kalina aye

kalina

I "kind of" have something like that already but not really to the same effect

since I have a RME card for plugging in the external stuff and that's the part that shows up as a soundcard

and then I have a UAD card which is basically a DSP processor

TildalWave

yeah they're all DSP

wait, didn't TI make some ludicrous speed DSP chips some years back?

kalina

and I could keep adding more UAD cards but I'm not convinced I'm fully utilizing the one I have

and the RME card I have is rated as the lowest latency analog card on the market according to dawbench

and the rest of the professional sound card industry seems to be focusing on firewire because it gives them a larger market (both laptops and desktops)

and those solutions are notably slower than the card I'm using

TildalWave

dunno, not an expert but it seems reasonable to me that you'd benefit from more parallel oomph more than from more serial oomph

Rory Alsop

11:18

@kalina - I need to buy a decent sound card as my old M-audio won't fit in this machine. What type do you have?

kalina

@RoryAlsop just a RME HDSPe AIO

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop is this a nice bit of OpSec attacking? Hope it's something really obscure then Social engineer the vendor?

kalina

I guess I could investigate exactly how much damage it would cause to go digital

Rory Alsop

Hahahaha - no, I just don't want a crap one

I require low latency, many inputs and outputs on an external card

kalina

your many inputs and many outputs might not be satisfied by that card

Rоry McCune

11:23

lol for sound I just need something that plays the sounds

kalina

it "only" supports upto 18 simultaneous inputs

Rory Alsop

To me that is many - I'm an amateur

kalina

but depending on the types of inputs you need it might not meet your requirements alone

Rory Alsop

Yeah - will check

Thanks though

kalina

they do various expansion boards that add specific groups of inputs

Simon

11:26

@DavidFreitag Totally agree with the guy, power to men, man.

Rory Alsop

Yep - looks good. Usually I just need 2 sets of stereo, 3 instrument, up to 3 mic. So I currently just run a bunch of xlr and 1/4" jack sockets

Simon

11:39

10

Q: I'm 23 and was given 50k what should I do?

Recently I was given 50k from my grandmother in her will. I am 23 years old and have no idea what to do with it. I make 33k a year. I have zero savings. I owe 35k in student loans over 6 years 0%APR I owe 5k in medical and credit cards. I have zero monies towards retirement. I also need to purc...

"I make 33k a year. I have zero savings. I owe 35k in student loans..."

Come on.

The America of the States of the United is dumb with their scholarship fees.

paj28

Guys, could someone please respond to the comment on my answer

4

Q: Is there any way my password is hashed, if I'm only ever asked to provide 5 out of many characters?

There is a system that, on a login form, presents about 40 boxes for password letters (to hide password's actual length), and only random ones (the same amount each time) are editable. Explanation is - to secure me from keyloggers. Seems legit. But does it means my password is kept in plain text?...

passwords hash

I'm done arguing with that guy

Simon

@paj28 Let it go, he doesn't seem to be the type of individual to admit that he's wrong.

paj28

ok Elsa

Simon

lulz

I swear that if the song gets stuck in my head all day, I'll kick yo ass.

paj28

I am one with the wind and sky

Simon

11:46

@@@

paj28

You'll never make me cry

M'vy

back

kalina

@Simon let it go... let it gooooooooo

Simon

pls lads

@kalina I linked you a cute little pony jumping last night and that's how you thank me?

Rоry McCune

@paj28 spot the person with kids :op

Simon

11:50

@RоryMcCune Hey, I watched the movie too.

Rоry McCune

@Simon ... ok

Simon

@RоryMcCune You don't watch family movies ?!?!

paj28

Music choice in the car is now: Disney singalong, Frozen or Lady Gaga

I used to be cool

Simon

@paj28 Poor man. I'm sorry, you can keep on singing if you like.

Rоry McCune

@paj28 yeah you were all about the rave music, what a change!

kalina

11:53

@Simon it's an amazing song

I don't know why you'd think it's evil or mean

Rоry McCune

@Simon don't watch a lot of movies these days, but if I did I don't think they'd be disney ones

Simon

@kalina Every time they sing in a movie, I want to mute the TV so bad.

@RоryMcCune Hum yeah, my favorites aren't the disney ones for sure.

kalina

@Simon Let it go, let it go... I am one with the wind and sky...

Let it go, let it gooooooo... You'll never see me cry!

Simon

qq

kalina

Here I'll stand, and here I'll stay...

Let the storm rage oooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Simon

11:57

@DavidFreitag I think "Into the Night" is my favorite track of the new Nero album. It gets me a lot.

kalina

The cold never bothered me anyway

M'vy

@kalina well, if it's you, we can probably end the sentence at "you'll never see me"

@kalina I'm pretty confident this is the bridge part

Simon

Is it called The Bridge because their users live under one?

kalina

Aug 12 at 10:04, by Flyk

Arqade is called the bridge because they're all trolls and need something to hide under

Simon

@kalina Fair enough.

M'vy

11:59

Bridge (music)

In music, especially western popular music, a bridge is a contrasting section that prepares for the return of the original material section. The bridge may be the third eight-bar phrase in a thirty-two-bar form (the B in AABA), or may be used more loosely in verse-chorus form, or, in a compound AABA form, used as a contrast to a full AABA section. The term comes from a German word for bridge, Steg, used by the Meistersingers of the 15th to 18th century to describe a transitional section in medieval bar form. The German term became widely known in 1920s Germany through musicologist Alfred Lorenz...

Rоry McCune

@kalina well that's not true :op

Simon

@M'vy There's no way they can be civilized enough for this.

kalina

@M'vy I'm pretty confident that for the purpose of trying to get a song stuck in @Simon's head that this isn't relevant

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