The DMZ

CodesInChaos

3:00 PM

@ManishEarth I think the first thing I would have looked for is any remainders of singularity and its successors.

ManishEarth

@CodesInChaos singularity?

CodesInChaos

@ManishEarth The C# based OS.

ManishEarth

ah

TildalWave

@Iszi and @ThomasPornin airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/…

CodesInChaos

There were still life signs for a while. First Midori and then some very good people reported working on an OS and language incubation project.

But several of those people left MS a while ago.

From the paper they published, that language must have had some similarities to rust concerning safe threading and lifetime management.

TildalWave

3:03 PM

Also from List of military time zones en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_time_zones:

> the letter "J" was skipped to avoid confusion with "I" (as was the custom of the time) and because some alphabets don't have one (such as Cyrillic)

that about Cyrillic is BS

Iszi

@TildalWave Follow the thread all the way and it seems like they still aren't even sure.

CodesInChaos

No love for New Sealand's UTC+13

TildalWave

@Iszi I know, but it appears to have some convoluted military background

Iszi

@TildalWave "Some alphabets don't have one" (whether it actually applies to Cyrillic or not) is a pretty good reason.

TildalWave

BTW Cyrillic doesn't have Q, W, Y, and X and they're all in codes

Iszi

3:06 PM

@TildalWave I like the "marketing purposes" theory - like "555" for phone numbers - but that doesn't really work so much for time zones.

@TildalWave Well, if they were going from the English alphabet, they only had one letter to remove.

TildalWave

@Iszi yes but wiki says "such as cyrillic" and lists no other

and what about those that they really don't have?

there's two J's in cyrillic

Iszi

@TildalWave Almost more reason to skip it.

TildalWave

@Iszi then again, why would strongly western military culture even care how they write anything in mother Russia?

Iszi

@TildalWave Damn Commie spies, that's why.

TildalWave

I think it's one of those "nobody knows anymore" information security monkeys kind of a thing

CodesInChaos

3:12 PM

Skipping J is pretty common in many contexts.

TildalWave

it might have once made sense but it was lost to convention

@CodesInChaos Like? German name for my city during Nazi occupation? Any other?

Thomas Pornin

@CodesInChaos You mean New Zealand, or is there another Sealand ?

CodesInChaos

@TildalWave Some classical ciphers treat I and J as the same letter

Thomas Pornin

@TildalWave In Latin, there is no distinction between I and J.

Iszi

@TildalWave I don't see any detail on the issue from Wikipedia's citations.

TildalWave

3:15 PM

OK but how does this apply to military codes for time zones?

CodesInChaos

Columns labeled with letters often skip I or J.

gowenfawr

@TildalWave Welsh doesn't have a J IIRC

Thomas Pornin

@TildalWave Military codes are designed following the lines of military logic.

CodesInChaos

military "logic"

Iszi

@ThomasPornin Is that like "military intelligence"?

Thomas Pornin

3:16 PM

@Iszi and military music.

TildalWave

the only reason I can think of is radio comms and that it might be confused for A if the first vocal is lost

but there's loads of letters as they're pronounced in English that this equally applies

Iszi

@CodesInChaos Don't forget the various locales that are at UTC +/- XX:30 or something like that.

21 mins ago, by Iszi

@ThomasPornin If that's what you're going after, there's plenty more letters with more conflicts than that. I probably would have just nuked E.

TildalWave

yup

B -> E

C -> E

...

Iszi

21 mins ago, by Iszi

With a choppy transmission, that intersects with B, C, D, G, P, V, Z.

Simon

Your mom -> Me

Iszi

3:19 PM

@TildalWave I think @Simon just claimed maternity over you?

TildalWave

> The letter J ("Juliet"), originally skipped, is now used to indicate the observer's local time

Lucas Kauffman

@Rorym I received comments you need to document your docker files better :P

Simon

@Iszi Remember when you tried to do that with me yesterday? That was awkward.

TRiG

We all are new to cryptography and creating our own crypto protocol seems like a good ideea — Adrian Sicaru 3 hours ago

TildalWave

which is funny, in Russian that would be "zona ya" (zone I)

or "my zone"

Gilles

3:26 PM

3 hours ago, by gowenfawr

"We all are new to cryptography and creating our own crypto protocol seems like a good ideea – "

TRiG

I swear I scanned back to see whether it was already posted. Didn't spot it. Then as soon as I hit enter, I saw it in the star sidebar.

Gilles

> All of the weaknesses in your protocol can be summed up as "use SSL" or even "use SSL, dammit !". — guess who

3

TRiG

@Gilles The porn bear?

TildalWave

D.W.?

Simon

Oh wow, wow, wow.

Surely you mean TLS and not SSL. Wikipedia: Transport Layer Security: SSL 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 "As of 2014 the 3.0 version of SSL is considered insecure..." "SSL 2.0 is deprecated..." "SSL 3.0 is deprecated..." — Michael Kjörling 3 hours ago

Of course he'd try to school Thomas, for fucks sake.

TildalWave

3:27 PM

@Simon this one is known for that

Simon

Sigh.

TildalWave

he does take suggestions OK tho

had to once comment to his dry and dull answer with:

> -1 Please edit your answer to make Voyager 1, the space probe that has been the first to show us evidence of active volcanoes on other celestials, sent us photographs of intricacies of Saturn's rings 33 years ago, still operates more than 36 years after launch and travel through our Solar system, sent us "The Pale Blue Dot" image,...

> ...we are able to communicate with while being more than 127 AU away and is the first man-made object that has exited the Solar system while still sending us useful scientific data, sound a bit less unamazing. Thank you!

then he wrote an excellent answer

26

A: What is the farthest a spacecraft has traveled away from earth?

Wikipedia states that Voyager 1 is currently farthest from Earth; it gives the distance as of Dec 3 2013 as 126.95 AU ($1.899 \cdot 10^{10}\text{ km}$) from Earth. At that distance, the speed of light delay is approximately 17 hours 36 minutes. By Dec 7 2013 it was listed as at a distance of 127....

check the first revision tho ;)

Ohnana

4:04 PM

hmmmm who can i troll-nominate for moderator...

Gilles

4:27 PM

@Ohnana only yourself

Rоry McCune

the problem with this election, seriously, is that we have too many good candidates, which I guess is a nice problem to have

4

Xander

@RоryMcCune Well, on the bright side, you still have six days to come to the realization that I'm the correct candidate to vote for. :-P

Rоry McCune

@Xander nah I'm thinking we need one more candidate so I can just use a D6, right now it'll have to be a D10/2

Xander

@RоryMcCune LOL, OK then, so nominate yourself already, and make it 6.

Rоry McCune

@Xander ooh no no I'm not mod. material, also when there are so many other candidates who are keen and would, I'm sure, do a good job, seems senseless to muddy the waters :)

raz

4:48 PM

@RоryMcCune Yeah this is the reason I didn't put my hat in. @Simon for Mod!

Iszi

5:39 PM

@Ohnana @JeffFerland and I kinda already did. Jeff self-withdrew and mine got nuked.

The Man don't like it when you try to break His system.

Gilles

@Iszi no, they don't like it when you post a joke nomination

Iszi

@Gilles It wasn't a joke. It was a placeholder. :-P

Thomas Pornin

@RоryMcCune Cannot we elect them all ?

Rоry McCune

@ThomasPornin good idea, I'm not sure if there's some kind of organisational reason for capping the number of site mods, I definitely can't think of a technical one..

you would think the more, the merrier

Iszi

@RоryMcCune They probably look at other forums that have a crap-ton of mods and just see too many cooks in the kitchen.

Xander

5:52 PM

@ThomasPornin Alas no. All of us save one shall feel the bitter sear of rejection.

gowenfawr

@RоryMcCune moderation is a function of responsibility; too many moderators and no one feels responsible.

Rоry McCune

@Iszi ahh, they could have a mod. hierarchy, like senior and junior

Thomas Pornin

All you need for an election is a thunderdome.

3

Xander

@RоryMcCune I think they want to limit the access to the mod tools, and the amount of work they need to do to manage the moderator community. I have a feeling that too many would start to become...Chaotic.

Iszi

@RоryMcCune They do. Seniors are the blue diamonds. Juniors are the high-privilege users.

@Xander With a capital "C"? Sounds serious.

Gilles

5:54 PM

@RоryMcCune moderators have access to some private information about users

they also have considerable tools with which they could cause (mostly but not completely reversible) havoc

Rоry McCune

@Gilles ahh I see, but then you'd still not be talking everyone on the site, but a small'ish number of people

I can see why they might want to make some kind of restriction tho'

Gilles

(feel free to point out the contradiction between limiting which users get access to such dangerous features, and the inability to access some of them over https… but not to me)

2

Iszi

@Gilles In such respect, aren't we essentially just like almost every other major community forum out there? Not that it makes it right...

CodesInChaos

What annoys me most about having become a mod is that I can't vote to close anymore.

Iszi

@CodesInChaos Yeah, it just pretty much strips "vote to..." off of everything, right?

CodesInChaos

6:07 PM

For deletions and migrations I don't have a problem with that. But a non binding close vote would be nice.

It's one of those meta.se questions with 200 upvotes and [status-declined].

Iszi

@CodesInChaos And Atwood has a -60 or so on his answer?

CodesInChaos

233

Q: Add a way for moderators to cast a normal, non binding close/open vote

I think moderators should have the ability to cast a normal, non binding close and open vote like they were a normal user (while of course retaining their ability to cast a binding vote where necessary). This can be used in "grey areas" where a moderator can choose to give his or her opinion, bu...

Iszi

Wow. He actually has a net-positive score there. +33/-25

Thomas Pornin

@CodesInChaos This can still be done with a sockpuppet.

Jeff Ferland

@RоryMcCune "Rule by committee"

CodesInChaos

6:14 PM

@ThomasPornin But then Shog9 might throw a hissyfit.

I don't want to end like a hopeless noob.

Iszi

So, it looks like JA's answer there isn't the lowest-scored but still the most down-voted. Go figure.

Thomas Pornin

@CodesInChaos As far as I know, the official rule on sockpuppets is that they are allowed as long as they do not vote for each other or for the same thing. Here you would vote on a close that, by definition, you do not vote on with your mod-powered account.

Iszi

@ThomasPornin Unless the thing blows up later and you need to vote with your mod account to have it acted upon quickly.

Rare/edge case, I'm sure. But the point is you can't guarantee that you won't be acting with your mod account on the same question later.

CodesInChaos

It's not like the mod vote's additive with the other vote.

Adi

Wait, what?! We're having moderator elections?!

Thomas Pornin

6:19 PM

@Adi Nominations are still open... go forth and nominate.

Iszi

@Adi Welcome to yesterday.

Adi

@Iszi I only heard about it because the red notification thingy told me

@ThomasPornin I don't think it's a good idea

Iszi

@Adi If your thingy is red, I'd go see a doctor.

2

Gilles

@ThomasPornin The official rule is that you don't do anything with one account that you couldn't do with the other account. That includes not only voting for account 1's posts from account 2, but also voting for the same post, accepting an answer from the other account, approving the other's edits, etc.

Adi

@ThomasPornin I'm too strict on the site to be a moderator

Gilles

6:21 PM

that also includes getting swag twice, but that's between them and you

@CodesInChaos No, there's even an official encouragement for mods to get another account!

Iszi

@Gilles So, if a mod had a non-mod account then they couldn't vote to close or mod-close a question?

Gilles

7

A: View site with a specific reputation value (lower than your own of course) or as a specific user (for mods)

I've encouraged our mods to create a new account and try to get to 200 rep on their site as something fun to do, and an exercise with keeping in touch with how it feels to be a low-rep user. It's not mandatory for them to do this, we ask an awful lot of them already, but it's more strongly encour...

@Iszi That specific issue hasn't come up that I know of. I don't see why they shouldn't: casting two non-mod votes on the same question is clearly forbidden, but mod-closing or normal-closing once would be fine.

Iszi

@Gilles You said you can't do anything with one account that you can't do with the other. A mod account can't vote to close, and a non-mod account can't mod-close, so that negates the ability for the account owner to do either with either account.

#RulesLawyering

raz

@Iszi Well played!

Gilles

@Iszi service brain start

Apply common sense. I am not speaking in a formal language. This is a discussion of sociological issues, not a cryptography specification.

Iszi

6:28 PM

Awww, but ambiguity and inaccuracy in wording is where all the fun is! Just ask @Simon's mom!

raz

@Iszi believe me, she's not ambiguous about anything ;)

Adi

Let's see. What are the downsides for me being a moderator?

Downsides to the community, of course

Questions will be closed more often. Edits will be rejected more often. Comments will be deleted more often.

Probably will cause a stir between the mods, and some people will even contact the admins about my actions

Iszi

@Simon is @raz your new dad or something?

Stack Exchange

After decades of increasingly confused arguing, Pluto is reclassified as a "dwarf Pluto."

Iszi

@Adi Better the Admins than the police.

Rоry McCune

6:36 PM

@Adi but think of the sheer unbridled power you would hold!

the fate of many resting at your whim

lol

Adi

@RоryMcCune That's the first thing I thought about, which is precisely why I thought it's a bad idea

Rоry McCune

@Adi heh

Adi

But then again.. hmm.. can I win?

Rоry McCune

@Adi it's a strong field, so you'd likely need to resort to low-down political tricks like bribing the electorate, unfortunately you're late to the scene there, we already have @Simon 's bagels-->doughnuts pledge

Thomas Pornin

@Adi Power corrupts. Great power corrupts greatly. Absolute power is kind of neat.

2

Mrtn

6:41 PM

Well, unless he can up the ante.

Adi

@RоryMcCune Well, clearly, @Simon is not gonna win. So he's not an issue at all

Thomas Pornin

@Adi I could endorse your candidature (technically).

Rоry McCune

@Adi fighting talk from a man yet to throw his hat into the ring

Adi

Hmm.. I'm seriously considering it now

Iszi

@RоryMcCune I don't see it like that at all. Just a simple statement of fact from a casual observer.

Rоry McCune

6:42 PM

@Mrtn that's what we the electorate need to see, a nice escalation of bribes... sorry promises

@Iszi heh I was goading @Adi into nominating himself, sorry I should perhaps add explicit <I'm joshing> tags more often :)

Gilles

> full text of the Wikipedia article on pareidolia

schroeder

@RоryMcCune when will the Internet develop the sarcasm font ?

Mrtn

@RоryMcCune Indeed! I am considering taking... gifts... for my vote.

Iszi

Rоry McCune

@schroeder that would be really useful

@Iszi as would that

Mrtn

6:45 PM

"In June 2014, the United States Secret Service requested bids for software that would identify sarcasm in tweets." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm#Identifying_sarcasm

The more you learn..

Adi

How can I see all the pages that I "liked" on Facebook?

schroeder

@Adi just search for "My Little Pony", and it's prolly all of them

2

Mrtn

Ouch.

Iszi

@ThomasPornin We need this on a T-shirt. Attribution to The Bear included.

Mrtn

@Adi facebook.com/your-username/likes

Adi

6:49 PM

@Mrtn I tried it. It says "All Likes 35" but only shows 6 likes

Iszi

@Mrtn It'd be totally awesome if they actually re-directed such links to the actual path that included your username, if you're already logged in.

Adi

I've just received an updated about a video from Felicia Day

I remember "liking" her page about 3 years ago

Mrtn

@Iszi I believe there once was such a thing. People would send what looked like a random facebook user, and it would redirect back to your profile. Ala "Hey, look at this idiot! facebook-link-here"

Adi

but I also remember unliking it a few days after that

I don't see it in my likes page

Mrtn

@Adi Unlike it again?

Your problem is that you have trained Facebooks algorithm. It now believes you are a closet-fan of Felicia Day.

Rоry McCune

6:52 PM

@Mrtn the guild was quite funny in places

and the songs were catchy

Adi