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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

5:01 PM
Reddit - lunchtime...huge mistake
It also introduced me to this NSFW Oculus Rift advert: vimeo.com/74025061
I had heard of it, but never seen it :-)
 
Ahhh, reddit explains it.
 
5:17 PM
reddit explains everything.
 
raz
s/everything/nothing
 
@raz it explains everything and nothin, this is the Zen of reddit
<finger cymbal chime>
 
My lunch break on Friday was an hour long walk round the botanic gardens. I think it was time better spent.
 
@RoryAlsop yeah reddit is like mental candy floss, sweet at the time but no real substance
 
@RоryMcCune you are a bit buddhist today :-)
 
5:25 PM
@RoryAlsop I wholeheartedly agree. When I said reddit explains it I did not mean to imply that reddit is omniscient but rather that this information coming to your attention via reddit is not a surprise.
 
@RoryAlsop yeah I must be feeling philosophical for some reason
@RoryAlsop probably so I can get it out of the way and be appropriately cynical on Friday when Ernie's about !
 
Really looking forward to catching up with a few of the old crowd
Although Nikki and Jim obviously work in the same building as me at the moment :-)
 
yeah should be good, think we've got a good turnout this time :)
 
@RоryMcCune Friday is not cynical day! That's Thursday! Friday is the best day.
 
@RoryAlsop ah are they both down there as well, I kinda knew Jim was didn't realise Niki was too..
 
5:28 PM
@RоryMcCune Jim's across the bridge, and Niki is two floors down
 
@Rhino ah yes but on Friday I'm out for drinks/food with a load of people who've been in InfoSec a loooong time (in some cases), cynicism is kind of inevitable
 
@RоryMcCune I'm not that cynical yet....although Ernie has been in InfoSec a long long time
 
Oh yeah me too I know all these people! How's Rory these days? And Rory? And Rory on the fourth floor? And Rory in accounts? And did you meet Rory the mail delivery driver today?
 
heh
 
@RoryAlsop you may not be generally cynical but you must be a little touch cynical about security by now....
 
5:30 PM
@RоryMcCune a smidge - I'm more cynical about business in folks in general
 
@RоryMcCune I see... ok I suppose. It still feels like the wrong thing to be doing on a Friday though, being cynical. That's for thursdays when you've been doing this stuff for four days straight and OH MAN why are 5 day weeks even legal what is this?
 
God damn logging into chat is such a pain in the ass
 
Friday is like being in 24. 8am-9am Jack arrives at work, contemplates weekend. 9am-12pm Jack does everything that will absolutely get him fired if he doesn't do it by the end of the day, 12pm-1pm Jack has lunch. 1pm-5pm Jack pretends to work, but postpones dealing with any terrorist incidents "until Monday".
That is, assuming Jack is still in the office at 5pm which is not guaranteed on the weekend before a public holiday.
@DavidFreitag If you want to make it really painful, install self destructing cookies, requestpolicy and noscript
after you successfully manage to persuade it to let you redirect to your OpenID provider and back, you think you've made it only to find out because you navigated away from stackauth.com in the process, self destructing cookies destructed your cookies over there :)
 
@Rhino I finally gave in and disabled HTTPS everywhere for this site, that was most of the issue.
 
@AviD @LucasKauffman Not me, unfortunately. I use a traditional French Press, and don't know anything about the Aeropress other than that it's somehow different.
 
5:37 PM
@DavidFreitag ah yeah. I actually have that working because I use chat over https too - if you authenticate to https se but use http chat, which I think is the default, you don't get no cookie
 
@Rhino I also get No referrer present - might be a browser setting regardless of whether I use https or not.
 
there was a while when meta.security served up the wrong cert as well - now it just seems to redirect to the http variant
 
I auth with https and use https chat
 
What's so hard about implementing SSL on SE again?
 
@Simon There are a few problems...
One of them is the certificates for the meta.* sites
 
5:44 PM
Can't they just get a wildcard cert?
 
Since browsers don't like '*.*.stackexchange.com' wildcard certificates, or 'meta.*.stackexchange.com' either, they would have to buy many certificates.
 
Ah.
 
Another problem is that they include non-HTTPS resources, e.g. inline pictures
 
Which would make Chrome display a warning, yes.
 
Unless all these resources are converted to HTTPS too, browsers will emit warnings.
Also, while HTTPS is all fine, they must maintain the non-SSL site anyway, otherwise all existing links will be broken.
 
5:46 PM
What about regex that catches HTTP and redirects to HTTPS?
 
@Simon they could resolve the http linkes by accepting all those that exist with 301s to their https versions
 
You can use regex but with millions of instances it is pretty much guaranteed that there will be many remaining problems, probably too much to be handled manually.
 
But for finding links from third parties well you have to check the resource exists over https too
 
So what, they just close their eyes and pretend everything's fine?
I hope there's a team working on this.
I feel like most of this could be solved by using some ninja Apache skills.
(Replace Apache with whatever web server they're using)
 
@Simon IIS
 
5:52 PM
@Rhino I puked in my mouth a little bit.
 
435
Q: Which tools and technologies are used to build the Stack Exchange Network?

aleembWhat tools and technologies are used to build the Stack Exchange Network? See also: Which tools and technologies are used to build Data Explorer? Return to FAQ index

@Simon some of it, but not resources the site links to as @ThomasPornin says. And also the wildcard cert issue from the bear - you can only have one * at the beginning for certs. Browsers don't handle anything else.
and I don't think you could get a CA to issue one.
The options for handling this involve managed PKI i.e. lots of money
 
@Rhino Everything's possible with the #yolo philosophy.
 
@Rhino Although RFC 2818 was a lot more flexible, browsers did not implement it properly, mostly out of incompetence, although they now say that it was "for security".
 
Why don't browsers support support multiple subdomains?
 
@ThomasPornin yep. I remember looking at this, I can't remember why.
@Simon yolo is "use http"
 
6:01 PM
Also, I was assuming that * .google.com would also include * . * . * . * .google.com
Oh fuck off SE
FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
@Simon nope but google are have their own root CA, Google Internet Authority
So they can issue as many certs as they like
 
Jerks.
 
@Simon In fact, X.509 already has a solution for making intermediate CA limited to a single domain, with the 'Name Constraints' extension, but nobody really supports that extension.
 
Actually it looks like it's a sub-authority of Geotrust, but that's immaterial
 
OpenSSL now supports it, but it is quite recent (like, 2 years ago)
The mere existence of the 'wildcard names' shows that the refusal to implement Name Constraints is ancient.
 
6:04 PM
Because I'm assuming SE isn't the only website that has this issue.
However, I do agree that 2 subdomains is wizardry.
Today is the day of the month where I can't spell.
 
Is that why you're not using your favourite word?
 
Nah, that is mostly due to my fatigue.
 
Commercial CA are not keen in helping people get working sub-domain certificates, since the alternative is to buy a lot of individual certificates from commercial CA.
 
Right, of course it's about money.
It's always about money.
 
There's something that could be called a 'conflict of interest'.
 
6:10 PM
@ThomasPornin which goes away if you send trunks full of gold for managed pki?
 
although once "Lets Encrypt" launches it would seem possible that this will be resolved...
as certs issued via that CA are (AFAIK) free
 
You can get free certs from StartCom too
 
Except that you can't get them to reissue the cert if it gets compromised, correct?
 
@Simon I dunno. I haven't read that far.
I only heard of them today.
 
@Simon yeah I've heard that about startcom but that'll be fine with Lets encrypt
 
6:13 PM
@Rhino You can, until you try, at which point it becomes a rather randomish process.
 
@ThomasPornin right, I see
 
I was using a free cert from StartCom, then I switched to a non-free certificate from a CA operated by my registrar.
I pay a few dollars but at least things seem to be done decently.
 
@ThomasPornin Nice registrar. But nothing shows up on "encrypted mushroom"!!
Gandi do dnssec and 2FA really well as well.
 
Anyway, how much is a non-wildcard cert, 10 bucks?
Let's not be greedy.
 
@Simon depends who you get it with, but yeah basically
 
6:16 PM
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLINNNNNN
 
@ThomasPornin actually I take that back, bolet.org/~pornin works, but bolet.org shows a blank page :(
 
bolet, more like boulet
lolololol
 
@Rhino This is voluntary.
 
97 credit hours with a cumulative gpa of 3.42 for a 60 credit major. Seems legit
 
I use that Web server to hosts a few things, but there is no applicable notion of a generic index page.
 
6:20 PM
@Simon wtf lol!
 
My Web site is not there to entertain bystanders.
 
@ThomasPornin Well, I can't talk, I don't even have a homepage
 
@SteveDL To be fair, he insulted my mom this weekend while I was gone, this is a tiny payback.
 
I used to, but then I realized I didn't have much interesting to put there.
 
WHY IS THERE SOMEONE REMOVING THE CERTIFICATION TAG FROM EVERY SINGLE QUESTION?
 
6:26 PM
TIL @ThomasPornin is a PhD from ENS. :o
 
@Simon mass tag edits.... it could be .... she who must not be pinged!
 
@RоryMcCune AN AGENT OF HERS?
 
@SteveDL I'm guessing from the emoticon that's a good thing?
@Simon s/AGENT/sockpuppet/g
 
o
 
@RоryMcCune ENS = Ecole Normale Superieure - Oxbridge of France
 
6:32 PM
@Rhino Ahh I C
 
@RоryMcCune people in that school are monstrously good, especially at crypto and verification
 
@SteveDL well that would tie with the evidence we see, indeed
 
@SteveDL They're also monstrously French I assume.
 
@RоryMcCune exactly. The french oxbridge are the grand écoles - if I understand correctly the ENS is the science one
 
@Simon not only.
In fact when I visited the security group at Birmingham uni, their head of group spoke french and so did two thirds of the postdocs, even though none were French. They had gone to ENS at a point or another.
 
6:38 PM
@SteveDL When they were speaking French, did there little finger magically get up in the air?
 
@Simon sorry that's just you.
 
o
 
> http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/18245/security-model-for-datacenters

It's a bit late once everything is built up to think about adding on some security... Also Simon was this the question you were upset was having its certification tag removed?
 
@SteveDL Yes.
I didn't read the question, I have no idea if the tag fits or not. I just noticed that the same user edited multiple questions to strip the certification tag.
 
@Rhino It's a bit more complex than that, of course, but that's the gist.
Initially, the ENS was supposed to be the school for the people who would become the teachers for the schools where would go the future teachers who would then go through France and teach everything to everybody, starting with reading, writing and counting.
This was back at the end of the 18th century.
Nowadays, the ENS are like "the Grande École for academics"
whereas most other Grandes Écoles are for creating engineers or businessmen or artists.
Being an ENS pupil is quite convenient, because you have a statute of public servant, and thus you get paid for being schooled.
 
6:45 PM
@ThomasPornin Wow.
I'd be more than happy to be paid to study.
 
The ENS Ulm (the one I went to, which is "rue d'Ulm" in Paris) also hosts one of the most ancient crypto lab, so many crypto-oriented academics have went there at one point or another.
 
@Rhino entering is hard. Very hard. I had some classes as an external student with ENS Rennes students, and it was okay but they were better. And entering ENS Lyon or Ulm would be nigh impossible for me, even though I'm in UCL.
They're very adept at doing abstract, formal research.
 
@ThomasPornin I see - I think for my A-level (baccalaureat) French I had to learn "culturual references" about France and this was one of them. I'd forgotten I even knew this much.
@SteveDL I gathered and isn't there an extra year of study just to enter the grand écoles? I can't remember what it's called but it's after the bac
@ThomasPornin that's the one I was thinking of - I didn't actually know there were others until I looked at wikipedia.
 
@Rhino you just need good grades, then you go to preparatory school
which is intense science or intense literature
6 days a week, exams every week
 
@Rhino The normal method for entering a Grande École is through the entry contest; you study for two (or three) years in a Classe Préparatoire to train for that contest.
 
6:50 PM
"taupinage". then after 2 years you take a variety of nation-wide exams for groups of schools, the biggest exam is CCP (concours commun of something...)
 
For business Grandes Écoles (e.g. HEC), that's a one-year class, often doubled (in case of failure at the contest).
 
some schools don't use the prep school system any more but recruit directly and do their own internal prep school. I don't remember if ENS does that
 
And it's certainly true that the french currently have a very strong showing cryptographically. I can name three french cryptographers off the top of my head, but only one English one (that is without looking)(bearing in mind I'm not "in academia" therefore the work has to make it out to the likes of me)
 
I can name only 1: @ColinCassidy.
 
@SteveDL It is "Concours Common Polytechniques". Mind the final 's': it is an attempt at leeching on the reputation of "Polytechnique", one of the highest-valued Écoles.
 
6:52 PM
oh right.
X, Centrales and Normales are not on CCP are they?
 
@SteveDL No.
 
entered his grande ecole via the back door, and it wasn't that grand at all anyway
 
There are dozens, even hundreds of engineering "Grandes Écoles", not all of them being really "Grandes".
 
That. :D
 
0
A: IPSEC - Remote Access Clients, Tunnel or Transport Mode?

schroederClient-side VPNs (AnyConnect, RDP) use transport mode because they set up end-to-end or end-to-site encryption. They do not rely on any other security infrastructure to create and maintain the tunnel. Tunnel mode is most often done between VPN gateways (routers) that maintain the tunnel without ...

 
6:54 PM
They still manage to pull all the public funding to themselves, leaving most universities in ruins...
 
am I missing something here? the OP is dissatisfied with my answers
 
I think that they process about 15000 students per year in all. Correspondingly there is no real engineering in Universities.
This is a French specificity.
Then there are some weird things, like the ENS, that are a Grande École, but send you back to the University system (albeit with specially organized courses, so you don't have to physically meet commoners).
 
Universities are definitely different, they're more sciency when touching topics also covered in engineering. But they're also somewhat more difficult. I found that I learnt more at Master's level in a public uni than in an engineering school.
@ThomasPornin come on :p I took classes with Normaliens :p
 
Everybody with the Bac can enter the University, there is no real selection. So selection occurs later on. At Master's level, considerable winnowing has taken place.
 
Wait, how long is a BAC in France?
 
6:58 PM
@Simon It is two years earlier than the Québec BAC.
 
3 years? that's just the A level equivalent, nothing special. You're out by the time you're 17/18
 
It more or less happens at what would be the end of the first year of Cegep
 
@ThomasPornin I wondered why all french job ads looked for masters students.
 
@ThomasPornin Cheers.
 
In the UK, there's selection for bachelors - although that might go away if universities are permitted to take unlimited undergrads
 
6:59 PM
@Rhino depends on uni but in mine, the math department kept up to 120 students in year 2, 20-30 in year 3 (final BSc year) and 5 or so in year 4 (the start of the Master's - the M1)
 
@SteveDL Also, one of the greatest possible crimes in French Academia is working on something that is suspected to be actually useful. This is akin to being sold to the Capital.
 
The CS dept kept up to 120 for year 3 and roughly 30-40 across two or three MScs. The uni at which I did my MRes kept 60 people for 10 different MRes programs (so roughly 6 per class, yaaaaaay)
 
Mathematicians who work in algebra scorn the mathematicians who work on function analysis, because the latter can be used by physicists. That's treachery.
 
lol
 
@SteveDL When you say keep, do they just chuck out students, or do they drop out?
 
7:01 PM
@Rhino it doesn't really matter now does it?
They just disappear
Many drop out, many don't pass the exams
 
@ThomasPornin I wholeheartedly agree and I wish you'd stop applying my beautiful fields to cryptography, dammit!
They're such beautiful pure abstract ideas and you went and used them! For stuff!
 
lolz
isn't 90% of security research meant to NOT be used?
"lest they find it actually doesn't do anything useful, we must make it more abstract and remove details from our papers"
 
@ThomasPornin I think this is a universal truth, though, and not necessarily french specific
 
@Rhino Cryptographers are in their own circle of Hell because what they do is useful to the Military.
 
@ThomasPornin and until recently nobody else.
 
7:13 PM
I walked down a street where the houses were numbered 64K, 128K, 256K, 512K and 1MB. It was a trip down memory lane.
 
8:04 PM
kali running on docker w00t w00t
 
@LucasKauffman hipster :op
on a more serious note not too sure how well that'll play on the networking front
docker does some stuff to get network access which might conflict with more low-level networking utils...
 
@RоryMcCune true, that's also what I remember which used to be an issue for TAP interfaces on LXC
 
8:32 PM
Is that better than "Infected Mushroom?"
 
Hahahaha
 
Just the average parent taking their kid for a driving lesson...!
Brilliant
 
Vi.
9:30 PM
Will there be special CAs that will override HPKP?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:59 PM
posted the first message in law.se chat
I AM WINRAR
 
lol
 
now to get meta rolling
 
I committed and signed up, but it's looking like it is not what I was hoping... :-(
 
11:16 PM
what were you hoping?
 
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