Yes

@Simon not the Official Web Association for Scott Pack?

@ScottPack well I'm the wrong @Rory to ask of course, but I can't see how that would be a bad thing :)

@Gilles Good call.

@RoryMcCune Well, I suppose it would be more appropriate on a CV rather than a resume.

I personally found this very very informational. It cleared up some of my misconceptions. Related to quantum computing.

mwahaha, 12 k

@Simon I think the name could be better. Maybe something with chocolate.

@RoryMcCune I suppose it probably depends on the nature of the fan club

That's it, we should express our love for chocolate and for @Scott at the same time, and call ourselves - The FUDGE PACKERS!

I'm not sure I'd list AJ's Furry Fan Club on my resume

but maybe that's just me

@AviD I think I prefer @Gilles' recommendation.

@RoryMcCune it would depend a lot on the social proof, as opposed to one's own imaginings....

@ScottPack yknow, never did get the difference between them, in practice.

@AviD CV is why this job, resume is why me

in theory a resume stays the same between job applications, but a CV is targeted at a particular position

huh? I dont think either one is "why", its more what/when.

@AviD A CV is more like an extended resume.

@AJHenderson well I suppose yes, if your fans are all in a lunatic asylum that could be bad...

@ScottPack really? I would have thought it was the other way around, if anything.

VITAE being the operative word here....

@AviD so you're saying that imaginary fans don't count... dammit!

@AviD A resume will typically contain your work history and some additional details about your abilities. So the Experience section followed by the lame Skill bullet list.

the resume is documentation of work done, a CV is why that work makes you a good fit for job XYZ and why they should want you for that position particularly. It's the sales pitch and the resume is the fact sheet

@AviD A CV contains your work experience as well as the full body of other stuff you've done. So speaking engagements, publications, side projects, etc.

err

scratch that

I'm thinking cover letter, not CV

A resume should be modified to be specific to the job you're applying for, but a CV is generally more static.

blah

In the States they're usually only used within academia

I see. it's not quite intuitive....

@ScottPack this sounds like an american thing... in the UK yer CV is just that.. we don't really use resume as a term...

CV by definition is the fact sheet....

@AviD Your face isn't intuitive.

@ScottPack ah okay, that is making more sense.

alumni.berkeley.edu/services/career-services/resources/articles/…

@RoryMcCune yeah, here its pretty much interchangable, if at all.

I mean, even the "static list of facts" is subjective, and could/should be changed per application....

okay, so which is Careers2.0?

Or linkedin, for that matter?

@ManishEarth Do you know of any cookie editor for Chrome that plugs into the developer tools, maybe make it like it used to be in earlier versions of Chrome?

@AviD They're what we in the States call "websites"

:-P

@TildalWave nope

hahaha

i wish tho

@Xander actually, I disagree - the age of the doc/pdf/tex version of CV/resume is dead. It should be a living online version of it.

Just not sure which "it" I mean.

@TildalWave I think I could write one tho.

Userscripts can be run on the devtools iirc

@ManishEarth yeah... I've just installed this one that you suggested in the write-up and it looks cool, but I thought maybe someone found a simple way around Chrome limitations (I'm quite certain that capability is still there, just needs to be enabled somewhere LOL)

@AviD Seriously though, along the lines of what @ScottPack said, I tend to view anything non-academic as a resume.

@Xander makes sense.

Regardless of the form or contents, that's the term that you'll typically hear in the business world here.

@Xander actually I've been calling LinkedIn my "online resume" (or cv) and Careers.SO my "portfolio".

@AviD surely the best CV is "google my name" :)

@RoryMcCune "google me, bitch"

@AviD Ah, interesting! I haven't really spent the time to learn how to use Careers.SO properly yet. I need to do that.

sorry no, that was "I'm CEO, bitch"

@AviD reminds me of youtube.com/watch?v=bSuvOVH0aSQ (NSFW language!)

@Xander yeah, its not like security pros have a huge github portfolio to show off their work. Really the closest you can get to public works.

@RoryMcCune haha, but really 10 minutes of that??

@AviD yeah it's a bit much unless you really like 90's X-Men visuals mashed up with 70's blaxploitation words

@RoryMcCune yeah, that was.... special

@AviD I have two things in github so far

@ScottPack okaaaaay, some do.

thanks for giving me an exception that proves the rule.

@ScottPack @avid I've got a couple of repos I even have a follower or two on github :)

@RoryMcCune ohh shaaaaaddaaap

fine, I guess I'm the only guy NOT on github.

yeah dude where have you been :op

I have some on bitbucket, but then I'm not the opensource kinda guy ;-)

also thats more my programming side, not security side.

Notice how the coder is the only one in here who doesn't have stuff published on github

What a loser.

yeah, exactly.

curious though, what you do have on github? Assuming you shun code as much as you claim ;-)

@ScottPack you can make that plural, I have nothing on github and I'm a dev

@Hennes I thought they changed that?

@Gilles And plural-er. Neither do I have anything on GitHub.

@Xander interesting, I'm starting to see a trend here.

Uh, a month or so ago I ran into the rep on SO barrier.

Unless the change is more recent than that

@ScottPack I join the club... nothing on GitHub, never had, dev at heart (well, not really but keeping up appearances at least LOL)

@AviD LOL...Yup, looks like it. :-)

> GitHub: The source code repository for when you don't write code.

Just cut and paste random code from the internet until it compiles.

Check out my github back catalogue then. . .

Meanwhile I grab pen and paper and try to draw a flow chart and look at algorithms.

@TildalWave I guess us loooozers who just code to make a living have no use for opensource... ;-)

@AviD you're a coder?

@TildalWave on occassion...

and at heart.

but I prefer the wider, more encompassing term: "developer".

@AviD yeah, like that means something :))

@TildalWave There was a whole book about it. "Coder to Developer" it was called. I have it.

@TildalWave I got sucked into security first by developing security systems... then went to "learn" how to break apps, so I'd know how to build 'em so they cant be broke... and wound up staying in security longer than I'd planned.

@Xander I know the difference, but with "developer" you kinda have to add "of what" to it, otherwise we're all "developers"

@Xander I think "programmer" was midway between them, or am I making that up?

@AviD That would make sense to me.

@TildalWave yeah, I know somebody whose title is "Programming Manager". nothing to do with code, she schedules the event programs.

@TildalWave Aww, now you're getting all existential. :-P

@Xander me? no, that's how you read it :P

okay how bout: "software developer"...

though that excludes the firmware developers, etc....

@AviD I would still like to know more

that doesn't mean any woman would tho :P

@AviD Fireware developers are just a bunch of nerds anyway. Who cares about them.

@TildalWave well that includes all the other aspects of software development, besides the 30% of coding...

Oi!

requirements, design, planning, security ;-)

Oops. :-)

<---- Attempt at writing a firwire driver for the Linux kernel when I was in school

It sort of worked... for a while before the PC paniced

@Hennes I think he meant firmware. But firewire, still works ;-)

@Xander what fireware?

@Hennes LOL! You must not have been a big enough nerd. :-D

@TildalWave Ha. Firmware.

This was around 1999 (might have been a year earlier or later)

@Xander oh, disappointment :( sounds cooler like you put it

Firmware | Firewire, it all requires sets of skills I don't have. :-)

@Xander C.

Fireware man, that doesn't sound too bad

I'm an accountant for crying out loud. You can't expect me to know about all of these hardware thingies.

Oh, an accountant! You must know excel! Can you explain pivot tables? :-)

@Xander who do you account to? :P

@Hennes same with project managers. :-(

Those I accuse of knowing Visio and that timeline porgram thingy

@Hennes Pivot tables are what you wish you could do with SQL, but can't.

@Hennes ymean Gantt charts. They suuuuuck.

@TildalWave The Man.

GOOD software project managers dont use them.

@Xander so it helps you pick up women?

@AviD He may specifically mean "Project" The mostest evilest softwares ever written.

Aye. ms project

@Xander yeah, but only because it is based on Gantt charts.

wrong methodology for software, thats all.

for anything else, ms project actually could be a good fit.

@AviD Hmm.....No, I don't think that's a feature. Or even an easter egg. But it should be.

They'd have less people complaining about them if it were.

@Xander YEAH baby, Pivot my Table but gooooood

Could have been worse though. Someone might have wanted to open "Excellent Sex" files

http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Excellent-Sex.aspx

heh

Re carreers: I just tried. "We had a look at your Stack Overflow activity but it didn’t quite meet our threshold just yet."

@Hennes you're joking, right?

No, that is the message when I try to look at carreers 2.0.stackoverflow.com/somelongnumber

@Hennes I know this might be a really stupid question... are you signed in?

Not sure I wanted to create a profile, but I was curious enough to try to check it out.

I get this with 164 SO rep

(100 of which is from the association bonus. I guess I should not call it rep)

@Hennes Oh, why check SO only? You have 27k rep in total on all SE sites

I know, rhetorical question ...

@AviD Did you import your LinkedIn profile to careers.so?

@Hennes I think I got the invite when I hit 1k on SO... don't have much more rep even now there tho

but yeah it sure looks highly preferential to programmers

I found most SO questions quite hard. And when I sit down an craft a nice answer then there are already a dozen replies and an accepted answer before I finish my first draft.

ON the slower sites that is not that bad. But Stack Overflow is just to fast moving.

@Hennes yup sounds familiar ... don't mind good answers, what I did was wait for JavaScript or PHP ones (I'm not that good in either BTW) and just post my take on it fast, then slowly edit the post

but if you're good at something you can find with bounties, then find some that don't have an answer and research it a bit before answering

But coding, or rapid answers? Not my expertise

@Hennes Oh I answered for a bounty some questions about some iOS code in godknowswhat ... it wasn't even required to know anything about the IDE or language there, just the basic assumption was all wrong, which I corrected

@Xander yeah

@Hennes and that's the difference between a coder and a programmer ;) I'm certainly not a coder, because I'm not learning languages by hard, I still constantly use help for languages I'm developing most in and I don't find that a problem, I just keep other stuff in my head first, like what's it supposed to do, is it efficient, safe,...

I usually do admin work. Install new servers, patch cables to new PCs. Createimages for PCs (sysprep, ghost/image X). That sort of thing.

No programming anywhere.

Well, maybe except a .bat file

but I'm still more of a programmer than a developer, because I'm fiddling too much time with less relevant things and I never really finish, and a true developer is mostly interested if the stuff does what it says on the box IMO

But I really do not want to call that programming

And when I run into problems I either google or log into a BSD host and massage stuff from there.

I should learn powershell though.

@Hennes no, you don't want to call that programming, indeed LOL

When I get bored I will read this: thenubbyadmin.com/2013/01/02/…

(From a bofh serverfault. person)

@Hennes well it gets things done

so you're more of a developer then

I guess

Frankly, I find myself too often complicating too much, so I can't really call myself a developer... I always want to make things generic, capable of solving any same or similar problems... needless to say most of my things end up being used for one specific task, which I could've solved way easier. But I just love to inspect how things work, what makes them tick

If you have the time for that: great.

At work things used to be patched so it ran for a while

And they stayed that way until we had a huge technical depth

@Hennes that's just it, I mostly don't... but I'm a dreamer, thinking it could be used for other things too, so I need a versed team that keeps me on solid grounds, if I work on my own I get a bit too much into stuff

tho I have yet to fill a job position that I couldn't immediately benefit the team, because I have so much stuff of my own that I did, it usually means they'd bring me a project and I'd already have it half made :)

I never had time to spare in jobs. It was always 'this is more urgent. Must be done yesterday'

Anyway, I hope the next job will be more interesting.

Fab,com is only 3 years old and is opening a new location in NL

@Hennes nice one, it never stops amazing me how many really important things are just kept patched all the time like on that comic

Aye. I should print it and frame it. It is the story of the last 10 years of my life

@Hennes maybe you should apply for educational leave more often, or convince your boss it'd pay if he sends you to some workshop or certification training e.t.c.

We tried. No budget.

We also wanted a 4th person on the dutch team.

Instead we fire one (me), and took over most of the work for another country (belgium)

Which left my two remaining coleages with a very high work load

And one of them in the hospital after half a year.

@Hennes you don't have some public workshops organized there? they've even converted some old cinema here and geeks meet and work on whatever they desire

Not sure what they did after that. I kind a lost touch with them

@Hennes try GitHub login. I had ~300 SO rep and I got a careers.SO account

No github here.

oh

I think I need 200 SO. I got 164

Should be easy to gain those

@Hennes nope

no way

It's a lot more

lot lot more

But first 1) finish this beer. 2) Bed (00:34 AM local) and I need to get up early tomorrow

If you have like 30k you get an automatic invite

@ManishEarth well it can't be much more than 1k, at least when I signed up a few months ago

Requesting an invite -- should be around the same

and 3) studiyng fror more OWASP lessons in case I do not get the fab job.

Hmm, maybe not then

If those fail I will try to add the carreer2 so thing

@ManishEarth I got an invite by mail... said so, but not who from, could as well have been a normal system invitation, but it read as it could be both ways, dunno

Hmm, add a 0) Finishs reading physics.stackexchange.com/questions/139/speed-of-neutrinos while I drink the beer

@TildalWave oh right

Currently there was a problem with the invite system

Another guy (160 SO rep) got an auto invite too

That's a bug

@Hennes Hmm, I wonder why I haven't seen that one yet

@Gilles That's even better!

@ManishEarth I found the mail... it said it expires in 14 days from the day I got it. And IIRC I got it the same day that I registered also on Area51 and completed all my registration info, including real name... I thought it's somehow related? Or a coincidence :O

Was it in the past 7 days?

If so, bug

@ManishEarth No, 29th of March

huh

shrugs

@ManishEarth maybe I have such obscure skills nobody felt threatened by them? :))

ha

@Simon Miss Scott Pack?