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3:45 AM
. o O (hope the bed bugs aren't biting :)
 
 
9 hours later…
12:38 PM
@nealmcb After the papers got over themselves, we found out that it was only a single dorm room, and that it was only a single bedbug. Thanks guys.
 
1:14 PM
Mornin' all.
 
1:51 PM
@Iszi Morning sunshine
 
 
3 hours later…
4:53 PM
I know we've been trying to get rid of unnecessary tags, but last night I was thinking about all those questions that come down to hardening various and sundry apps/OSes.
Would anyone be offended if I created a [hardening] tag and added it to all those?
 
5:04 PM
@packs Hmmm... Wonder if we should break that apart?
 
5:26 PM
@Iszi How do you mean?
 
5:36 PM
@packs [os-hardening] [application-hardening] [website-hardening] etc?
 
@Iszi See, that's what happens when I have a notion and don't bother to look it up.
I'm wondering if they should be merged
Do we get any benefit from them being split up?
 
@packs You're wondering if they should be merged, and I'm suggesting they be split?
@packs I'm a fan of specificity myself.
 
@Iszi You would be!
 
@packs What's that supposed to mean?
 
I'm just being unnecessarily vaguely accusatory.
 
5:40 PM
@packs Heh... Try saying that out loud.
 
Sounds fine in my voice. I best that sounds fantastic if spoken by one of Alabama or north-east Georgian extraction.
 
@packs Heh... Even a slight Floridian drawl makes it fairly interesting, I think.
 
Does Florida have it's own accent? Unfortunately, my experience has been primarily with snowbirds and retirees.
 
@Iszi Offhand I think tags are more useful if they express one thing. folks can search for windows hardening or web-application hardening if they want more specificity
so just "hardening" makes sense
but it doesn't look like any of those are there now
 
Hey, @RoryAlsop and/or @AviD! Take a look slightly up and tell us what you think of the tag chat.
 
5:57 PM
Or perhaps just "harden"
on third though, nah - follow Wikipedia with "hardening": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardening_(computing)
Feh - how to keep SE chat from being too clever in ripping off the trailing ")" in that url?
 
@nealmcb I could see it getting annoying if/when people start hitting the 5-tag cap. Though, I rarely have seen that actually happen.
@packs Natives do, a bit. But we're a hard folk to come across these days.
Argh... LMGTFY bait...
0
Q: Malware nomenclature

jaffachiefIf there a generally agreed upon naming convention for types of malware/virus? For example, are there agreed upon terms for virus, trojan, worm and the like? If one exists could someone explain it or link to an explaination?

 
6:18 PM
Well, that's the great thing about standards. You have plenty to choose from.
 
@Iszi I think these are fine questions, with the goal of having google eventually reference our site for the definitive answer :)
 
6:34 PM
@nealmcb I think they're generally regarded as low quality - pretty sure they're mentioned in the FAQ somewhere.
I'm half-tempted to downvote it myself as a "no effort expended" question.
 
7:08 PM
Can one downvote themselves? I know one cannot upvote themselves.
 
@packs Never tried it... dare I ask why?
 
Early on in my use of the site I wondered, so I tried it. They had thought of that situation and addressed it already, so good for them.
 
7:30 PM
@packs You tried downvoting yourself?
 
Negative, I tried upvoting. But I'll try the other one now
Nope
 
7:44 PM
@RoryAlsop RE: This thread...
2
Q: Virus blocking incoming connections ?

BenoîtHello, on my windows 2003 server, all incoming connections are dropped. I can see them getting in using Wireshark, but even a single ping from another computer fails. All locally initiated connection work fine (i'm asking from the server). This server is the DC/DHCP/DNS/File server, so computer c...

Why wasn't it closed as migrated? It's still its own (albeit dead) question here. Can it either be linked to the SF question, or deleted?
 
Also, sorry about kicking off that shitstorm/pissing match. Seems like I mis-interpreted that question.
 
@packs Huh?
 
Well, I flagged the question as a migration candidate. Reading those comments, then the corresponding meta.sf thread, there were definitely some strong feelings about the whole thing :)
 
@packs Oh, I see. Didn't know there was a Meta thread about it. Wow.
 
7:59 PM
@Iszi Yeah.... Personally, I feel the whole thing was a big overblown, but hey. I'm willing to accept fault for making a bad call.
I got a quorum badge out of it, though.
 
8:13 PM
Evening all
 
@RoryAlsop Howdo
 
@Iszi Hmmm - clicked on close as migrated so it should have done
oh - I see what you mean
Ah - that's what I did - it has already been migrated, so I didn't want to duplicate
 
I think he got confused because it is, for all intents and purposes, a migration, but because of the way things happened it displays as a stub.
 
@RoryAlsop Could we get the stub pruned?
 
@Iszi Erm - if you let me know what that means then yes, I'm sure we can :-)
do you mean just remove the entry from here entirely
?
 
8:24 PM
@RoryAlsop Yeah, delete the question.
Locked questions with no answers are of no value to us, IMHO.
 
yup - done - locked questions with no answers and no reason for being here are definitely of no value
 
One could make that argument about most closed questions. If they were deemed closeworthy, then are they necessarily useful to keep around at all?
 
I think if there are answers which are useful despite the question being crap/offtopic etc then we should just close and keep
 
@RoryAlsop I would classify those under the set of ALL-MOST :)
 
@packs LOL
 
8:27 PM
And they serve as warnings to others with similar questions.... kinda like pirates hang the corpses of would-be invaders outside their forts or such.
 
@Iszi - now that is an image I like
 
Also, @RoryAlsop, sorry if that question caused any issues for you. It seemed to have ruffled quite a few feathers.
@RoryAlsop It figures that you would be all into that, imperial bastard!
 
@packs - I don't think it caused me any issues? Must go and check the meta thread to find out
have you got a link to it?
 
If you don't know, then it didn't. I wasn't sure how much back-channel chatter goes on amongst the mods in the various units.
3
Q: Moving questions

Jim BIs there a set of guidelines about where questions get migrated to and when and why? I recently noticed a question that got moved (228792) to a stackexchange site. My thoughts were: Seriously? - we need to move questions about windows firewalls/virus activity to a security stackexchange? wh...

 
@packs Although this particular instance may not have been exemplary, shouldn't we want firewall and virus questions here?
 
8:32 PM
@Iszi I think it depends a lot on the context, but those kinds of things do definitely fall into our (armed?) camp.
To use my work as an example. We (the information security office) does not manage the firewalls, that sits in the networks department. We do, however, have extreme oversight in their design and implementation. Moreover, we have to approve all config changes.
The virus thing works similarly. We have a few incident response procedures (depending on what kind of incident) but the base assumption is that, "All incidents are security incidents until the security office decides that they are not."
Now, granted, 90% of the time that's a 10-30 second decision, but in the event of a suspected virus infection of a core infrastructure system, well, it may be in our court for a few days or a week before it moves on to standard 'Loss of Service Incident'
 
@packs - just had a check on Teachers, and there wasn't much talk about it there either.
 
@RoryAlsop ?
 
Teachers Lounge - the mod chat room
 
Oh, that's what that is. I've heard you and Avi mention it before.
Good. I already issued my mea culpa, I just would have felt bad if anything fell on you.
 
Is remarkably similar to here, although last night Avi and I hijacked it for culinary discussion re peacocks and turkeys, and their relative merits
 
8:38 PM
Nice
 
@packs - no worries. In looking at that SF meta chat, I think some folks were just a bit highly strung
 
That was my feeling as well.
I've noticed that the Comms Room tends to be more site on-topic than we are here, but that might also be the difference in working environments.
My boss definitely encourages us to take some down time whenever we feel it necessary, so long as we got our work done.
 
I think once numbers increase a bit noise goes down too, as otherwise the chat would fill
 
The idea being that if we get burned out working had all day, then when the cops walk up with a big case we'll just go nuts.
True as well. There are quite a lot more over there.
 
Yeah - I got dragged into an incident response which led to me and the client doing 90 hour weeks all December, then followup work for the next 9 months
 
8:40 PM
ugh
Was it at least an interesting case?
 
And that wasn't even arranged as a 'go to court' - it was just firefight/contain and understand
quite interesting yes
 
I actually prefer those, to be honest. So far, I've only managed to get subpoenaed once, and I was relieved that it settled before my date.
Oo..multi-national operation. Keen.
 
Aye - I ran a team in 18 countries delivering on that one
really good fun
but felt so burned out at the end of it
 
I bet
No mention of your name in there, though. Too bad.
Because of the scope of my work we tend towards things such as child porn and various forms of fraud. The latter can be interesting, but nothing really grand in scope.
 
LOL - sadly no, I can't even use it as a reference now I've left the organisation :-(
The day I get back from the B-Sides I'm hosting an event that the Lothian and Borders Serious Fraud Squad are talking at - they have some great stories
 
8:47 PM
Too bad. At least you got the experience.
Well, as interesting a story as auditors usually tell :)
 
hahaha
I spent so long persuading people that working for an audit and accountancy firm didn't have to make you boring
 
That's true. You are not necessarily boring, but it sure doesn't hurt....
Internal Audit is actually one of our biggest clients. All of them are real nice people, but they're all from an accounting background.
 
well that's where the core of that industry comes from - the Big 4 accountancy firms
 
No kidding
 
that's about 700,000 people worldwide
 
8:54 PM
On an unrelated topic, do you have any opinion on the hardening tags we were discussing?
 
@packs Can you give a reference to the questions and discussions you're referring to?
 
@nealmcb - it was migrated here kind of by mistake. It was sorted at the SF end, so I then closed and deleted the Q here
you may not be able to see it any more (not sure what rep level you might need, or maybe mod privs to see deleted questions)
Right - kids all in bed and asleep. Time for food! (@AviD - not necessarily peacock or wildebeest)
 
@RoryAlsop well, a reference on SF would be fine...
 
@nealmcb Here is the meta discussion
3
Q: Moving questions

Jim BIs there a set of guidelines about where questions get migrated to and when and why? I recently noticed a question that got moved (228792) to a stackexchange site. My thoughts were: Seriously? - we need to move questions about windows firewalls/virus activity to a security stackexchange? wh...

And the question on SF
2
Q: Virus blocking incoming connections?

BenoîtOn my Windows Server 2003 server, all incoming connections are dropped. I can see them getting in using Wireshark, but even a single ping from another computer fails. All locally initiated connection work fine (I'm asking from the server). This server is the DC/DHCP/DNS/File server, so computer ...

 
@packs Thanks - I saw that but was confused since there wasn't much discussion on this end. You were referring to the discussion at SF....
 
8:58 PM
@nealmcb Oh, sorry. There were a fistful of comments on the question on this end, but Rory executed the question.
 
it was a mercy killing
I am going for dinner - really
 
Wait, you have a 10 year old in bed at 9? Wow. WTG
 
He is the easiest, then my 4 year old and finally the precocious 8 year old
@nealmcb - quick comment summary:
 
@packs I really like the way we can link one chat line to others that it refers to. Nice dynamic highlighting etc. So I'll link this one to that original one. But I guess I can only link to one message at a time.... So here I'll just refer up a few messages in the history to the messages @packs referenced.....
 
WTF? I can't even tell on SF who moved it or why – Jim B yesterday edit
Yeah - don't see this as likely to be a security issue. Much more likely to be network driver or config issue. Can't imagine a virus/worm wanting to destroy its network connection :-) – Rory Alsop♦ yesterday edit
@jim At SF it says it was moved by serverfault.com/users/45/splattne Who can move it back, and what is the protocol for doing so? – nealmcb 23 hours ago edit
Can i get my question back to serverfault please ? – Benoît 3 hours ago edit
 
9:03 PM
@RoryAlsop Thanks for the "for the record"..... Anyone know how/whether chat is archived or searchable?
 
At least some of that information is in the info page
 
@nealmcb - yes, it is archived and searchable - don't know about the hows and wherefore's. I have often gone back to much older chats referenced by mentions of @roryalsop so the archive definitely exists
 
You guys want this over here?
0
Q: grsecurity effieffectiveness test with latest proftpd remote exploit

banditjhi. i just tested grsecurity. i installed debian and a vulnerable version of proftpd. i launched an exploit. worked. patched the latest kernel with grsec. and now the exploit doesnt work anymore. BUT . wouldnt just a the new kernel alone cause the exploit to fail? the exploit was only for debian ...

 
@packs - I dunno. Can we get spelling fixed on the way :-)
 
No kidding
 
9:13 PM
I think it is appropriate here - definite yes
 
I'm feeling a bit trigger shy now :)
 
Hahaha - I'll add a comment there to think about sending it over (I don't have enough rep there)
 
security.se is not one of the migration paths offered for the vote-to-close crowd
Only a mod can migrate it here
 
yeah
 
I flagged is as such
 
9:16 PM
I couldn't figure out how to flag it so just commented on it
 
9:43 PM
@RoryAlsop The trick is to click on the link that says 'flag' and type something :)
Gorramit! Who in their right mind decided that calling me at 4:30 was a good idea?
 
9:57 PM
@packs Is this you stuck there for a while then?
 
@RoryAlsop It just means I'm working harder during my last half hour than I prefer.
Due to traffic, if I don't leave by 5:10 then I won't get to the school in time to pick up the little one.
Granted, one of her teachers will stick around until I get there, but after a few times they start adding charges to the bill.
 
@packs Aye - prioritisation! That is one of the best things about my new job - I am now involved in teh school run, dinner time and I even got to see the kids nativity plays this year
my first ever
 
Moreover, I know how much I want to be home after work, so I don't want to keep them if I don't have to.
 
!
yeah - good call
 
Funk that. Work is work, being a good child is better. They already get more than their 40 hours, so if I leave something unfinished on an afternoon, I'm not too worried.
 
10:01 PM
@packs - well, go - be off with you. School run! Catch you later!
:-)
 
Yeah, I can't wait until she's older and can walk home, that will be another 4-5 years at least :(
ta
 

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