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12:51 PM
@MonicaCellio i'd love to see a Torah-based answer to this. — swasheck 3 hours ago
@swasheck thank you, but see this post and this followup with a different audience for why I am not contributing answers here at this time.
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This is a lucid explanation that I find very helpful in understanding your perspective. Thank you and +1 from me. — Jack Douglas yesterday
@Jack, thank you. If you're able to characterize it, I'd love to know what was different about this post so I can do more of that. Thanks.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:35 PM
@MonicaCellio I had a similar conclusion just last week about something I had been participating in. I realized I wasn't following a website because I enjoyed the content but because I enjoyed snarking the content with friends afterwards.
I just asked myself 1) if that was a good use of my limited time, and 2) how would the golden rule apply? The author will likely never know of my snarking, but that didn't make it right.
 
@FrankLuke I find it difficult sometimes to deal with sunk costs -- they're gone already, so I shouldn't let an existing investment motivate further investment if that investment is no longer wise, but it's so hard...
I spent almost two years here helping to build what was supposed to be a neutral site, and it's just not. At least not now. I hope Dan's proposal to get back on track gains momentum.
I've hung on in large part because of some of the people (including you @Frank). Maybe that's not the right motivation.
 
@MonicaCellio So do I.
Sometimes it's easy. Like the website I mentioned. Once I realized it was a time waster, it was easy to let it go. Other sites have been harder.
When I left apologetics.org, that was hard. I had almost two thousand posts and a lot of time there. My only wish is that I had copied more of my material to my hard drive before the forum was closed and erased.
@MonicaCellio I'm very honored. I really hope you stay.
 
2:51 PM
@FrankLuke wow. Yeah, leaving that much behind is hard enough, but to not even have a copy? That hurts. :-( I'm trying to find a way to copy my content from here, but so far the only answer there is beyond my technical abilities. I want an archive to hang onto.
 
@MonicaCellio I see that, too. I do wish I could do more like Jon did and help to keep it neutral, but I'm stretched for time as it is. We're getting more questions, but that means more to look over.
@MonicaCellio Losing the last half was completely my fault. The first 1,000 I had considered copying my best over to disk when the HD crashed and was beyond recovery. That should have awakened me but I got complacent again and didn't copy my new material very often.
 
@FrankLuke I didn't realize until afterward just how instrumental @Jon was here. He was the diplomat, the visionary, and the conscience of the community, somehow able to keep us on track without people feeling bad. When he stepped back things started to go downhill. I wish we had realized that sooner so we could compensate better.
 
@MonicaCellio Yes. Problem is, I never put too many ranks in diplomacy. :)
 
@FrankLuke apparently neither did I (though I have my moments; had a stunning one yesterday at work). But even if one does have ranks, it's really rare to have the combination of stewardship skills that Jon had. (Well, presumably has; he's just not using them much here now.)
 
@MonicaCellio If that plugin is as easy as it sounds, I might be able to help you out with that. I've been under a huge load at work (one client with a big deadline and massive changes to the program), and now I am trying to catch up.
 
3:04 PM
@FrankLuke my problem is that, apparently, first I would need a domain and a web server. I'm willing to install apache (assuming that's straightforward on a Mac) and just run it locally, but it sounds like I need lots of other stuff too, like mySql and PHP and I'm not sure what else, and I don't really know what I'm doing there.
(I don't need the ability to publish my content to the world. I just want to be able to look at it sometimes, in context.)
Work has to take priority, of course, and the other demands on your time. If you're able to help me that would be fabulous; please don't add stress on my account to what sounds like an already-stressful time.
 
@MonicaCellio I'm wanting to copy my posts here, too. I have a test site already setup that I can put a WP install on and add some plugins. We need to learn more WP at work anyway, so maybe I can do it as part of that.
 
@MonicaCellio tl;dr;?
 
@MonicaCellio You'd need to setup a MAMP stack (Mac, Apache, MySQL, PHP).
There are complete packages for that. I use WAMP coming from Windows, but a boss at my last job used MAMP.
 
@FrankLuke posts?
 
@MonicaCellio MAMP can be found here.
@swasheck My answers and questions. I'd like to do it without cut and paste.
 
3:13 PM
@FrankLuke oh cool. I would certainly feel better if you got something out of it too.
 
@FrankLuke hm. not understanding. so you're wanting to pull into SE or you're wanting to push from SE?
 
@FrankLuke thanks!
@swasheck we want to pull content from SE -- think personal archive.
 
i have a python script that would do that for you
 
@swasheck I'm not interested in contributing answers to a Christian site. Here's the sound bite:
> I came to teach and learn in a classroom. But people brought in an altar, crucifix, and communion wafers, and the custodians gave them directions
@swasheck ooh, please say more.
 
@MonicaCellio bummer
@MonicaCellio yeah ... soooo
i have it somewhere around here
i'll look for it
it's pretty straightforward
you can pull data using the SE API and it comes down in JSON
i was loading it into a postgresql database for a while
it'll require some tweaking
(depending on your level of contribution)
 
3:21 PM
@swasheck yeah. So if BH decides not to be a Christian site, that'd be different.
@swasheck Sounds like I'd also need to set up postgres, and then maybe some UI stuff to go from DB to human-readable. I wonder if this is what the WordPress plugin is doing behind the scenes already.
@swasheck I've got around 150-160 posts here. For the answers, though, I'd want to grab the whole question (for context).
 
@MonicaCellio no. no postgres. i was just saying how i was consuming the data
 
3:38 PM
@swasheck oh I see. Thanks.
 
3:50 PM
@MonicaCellio still digging for it
it's somewhere in the personal cloud
:)
 
@swasheck :-) If you're doing this real-time, I should mention that I'm currently at work and wouldn't be able to test anything out until tonight anyway.
 
4:04 PM
@swasheck BTW, I commend to your attention this meta question and, specifically, this answer.
 
@MonicaCellio meh.
it is what it is
no matter how vocal the minority is, the majority will perceive their majority as might and right (correct)
 
@swasheck I mentioned it because I remember you caring about this in the past.
 
@MonicaCellio i stopped.
i have measured interaction
 
@swasheck I see. Sorry to have bothered you then.
 
@MonicaCellio no bother ... but apparently i'm "rude" when i contend for my perspective
so i'd rather not be rude ... even if that means letting the weeds grow on the front yard
 
4:08 PM
@swasheck me too, apparently.
 
4:19 PM
@swasheck one person saying you're rude doesn't make it so, of course.
 
certainly
 
4:41 PM
@MonicaCellio i +1 your answer ... i understand caleb's point. the site has become too enamored with its own navel, though. i think there is space for both the doctrinal/theological answers as well as the more text-critical answers. unfortunately, these parties aren't playing nicely in the sandbox
 
@swasheck thanks. I don't mind a descriptive discussion of doctrine (e.g. "the Catholic church teaches X based on Y" - still have to show work of course), but I greatly mind dogma -- assertions of truth. I'm not saying you can't talk about doctrine, but you have to treat it like any other opinion or argument. It's not true just because it's your doctrine.
 
@MonicaCellio but when we ask for justification, we come across as "rude"
:)
 
It seems to me that Jack and Caleb think that any backing off from "this is true, because" is evil NPOV. There's a vast space in between and it's just plain impolite to presume that everybody believes as you do. But arguing with them isn't helping, so I'll wait and see.
@swasheck Jack says so. As I said before, one person making a claim doesn't make it so.
 
@MonicaCellio well there is a good deal of responsibility on our part as to how we ask :)
 
@MonicaCellio evil NPOV?
 
4:59 PM
Neutral point of view (NPOV), which is e.g. Wikipedia's rule, seems to be a dirty word to a couple influential people here. All it means is:

- Avoid stating opinions as facts.
- Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts.
- Avoid presenting uncontested factual assertions as mere opinion.
- Prefer nonjudgmental language.

That seems to be just plain good manners to me.
 
@MonicaCellio Thanks. I agree.
 
@FrankLuke please feel free to vote up this.
 
Hey @MonicaCellio, wondered if you could help me out to post my question in an acceptable manner: hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/5842/…
 
@Sarah hi. What is your question -- is it what's in the second paragraph? It seems like everything after that is a partial answer, or a discussion, or something; I'm having trouble telling what it's doing there. When i got to the end I no longer knew what the question is. Does that make any sense? I'm not trying to be mean or anything; I'm just confused.
 
5:14 PM
I did not think you were trying to be mean. I appreciate what you are doing; that's why I'm in here to fix it.
The part in bold is the question. What follows are my thoughts that would fall in here under personal research on the issue. I posted my reflections because I know Jon is leary of questions folks already have an answer to but are leading others on. It is dishonest and I agree; so I wanted to make sure folks knew where I was coming from. It is an honest question and one with great significance. I am looking for educated answers, not mere opinion.
Is there a better way to present it?
 
@Sarah thanks. Do you believe you have an answer (but you want others too), or that you have a partial answer and you want people to build from there?
 
I have an hypothesis and wonder if it holds water.
One can not say one believes something if there is uncertainty. I cannot say I am certain unless it has been tested.
 
@Sarah I wasn't clear what you're asking, but it seemed like your question could be broken up into a question and a self-answer. I'm sure people will interact with your self-answer when answering the question themselves. I think that would make it fit for the site and hopefully help you also get what you're looking for.
 
OK, thanks. How does one post a self answer.
 
@Sarah ok, that helps. Maybe if instead of "I suggest the following" you said something like "I have a hypothesis", and then at the end something like "does this hold water? what other ways are there to look at this?" it would feel more like a question. (Alternatively, there's absolutely nothing wrong with self-answers.)
 
5:23 PM
@Sarah It normally hides the post an answer part by default, but there should be a button at the bottom that says "Answer this question"
It will prompt you and ask if you are sure
 
@Sarah on the "ask question" page there's a checkbox or button (forget which) for "answer your question". Now that it's already up there, you'll just have to do it as a regular answer. You should see an "answer your question" button at the bottom.
 
Could I copy and delete the question then repost it with a self-anwer?
 
@Sarah Just edit the original question and cut the part after your bold text
And then paste it into your self-answer
The close votes will expire eventually
And whoever voted it down can reverse their vote if the question is modified to their liking once it has been edited
 
OK thank you both.
 
@Soldarnal close votes can now also be retracted. I'll retract mine with that change, and probably so will the other voter.
 
5:27 PM
@MonicaCellio Yeah, the other vote is mine
Forgot that we can retract those now (or always could?)
 
@Soldarnal Is it alright to leave the question without my thoughts so that my own thoughts do not lead the discussion. I am interested in others insights on the issue and think that my thoughts might hinder that process?
 
5:55 PM
@Soldarnal no, it's a fairly recent change.
 
6:10 PM
I deleted the question for now. The question came up in recent conversation I was in. It is a fair question; that is why I was thinking about it. I am just not sure how to ask it. Perhaps this is not the best place.
I will think on it some more and if I come up with a more effective way to ask it I will undelete it.
 
6:42 PM
@Dan i dont konw if you're around ... wondering if there was a standard for the shortened names of books of the bible
 
7:07 PM
@Sarah I'm sorry to see you deleted it. I think it could have been fixed up without too much effort.
 
@MonicaCellio I did some time back.
 
@FrankLuke ah, thanks.
 
 
4 hours later…
Dan
11:34 PM
Can a mod help make this answer into a comment as indicated to be the intent by the OP?
Thanks for the welcome. I would've liked this to be a comment as I don't have a lot of time I can dedicate to this right now but only see edit links and no add comment links as if comments are closed on all answers. I'm doing this from my phone though. — Dan Hebert 15 hours ago
 

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