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10:23
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A: Is it normal/legal in Germany for employer to withhold salary until work equipment is returned?

nvoigtYes, this is legal. I don't know whether it is normal, but since you seem to have some problems with your employer and apparently did not arrange the return of your equipment in time, it seems the employer's distrust is not entirely unfounded. This is not specialized labor law, it's basic civil l...

Aida Paul
Aida Paul
This may be nitpicky, and I apologise, but I want to understand the mechanics that would allow that to happen purely for curiosity. Employee has to return the equipment by the last day, but also for salaries to reach in time, they would have to sent that last day at the latest. Can they be late with the salary payment? Or how else would that be arranged time-line wise to ensure return of equipment before pay is made.
nvoigt
nvoigt
@AidaPaul Well, in a good relationship, this is not a problem at all. The employee and employer agree on a way that works for both and the employer pays the salary as normal, even if the agreement was "I will sent it next week". The employer normally trusts their employee enough, to not go through the hassle of delaying their payment. However, when you read through the OPs history of questions, it is pretty clear that the employer does not trust this specific employee, and the fact that the employee didn't bother to ask how to return the equipment makes it clear they might be right about that.
And while you could argue that this law is not a labor law and the employee could claim the same thing for themselves ("I have a due claim, I will keep the equipment until my salary is paid"), I think the fact that the company is a registered entity not going anywhere, while the employee could be in the wind with no way to reach them tomorrow, this heavily favors the employer.
Aida Paul
Aida Paul
Yeah I get the practicality of it and that they suspected OP of not returning it, but I am not sure how does that translate to withholding pay being legal, but I am far from expert on german employment law which so far seemed very strict and pro-employee, so being able to withhold pay like that seems... Odd. I would guess maybe withhold some of it for the equipment, but the entire pay? More so as employee could just say they don't have the equipment and then what? Hold it until court (or corresponding labor law body)? That seems very unevenly balanced.
Ultimately if I wouldn't trust soon to be former employee I would have arranged all this well in advance, which apparently they didn't do (and that's failure of the company, not OP). Don't think that frees company to now react like that and withhold pay, just doesn't seem proportionate.
nvoigt
nvoigt
"More so as employee could just say they don't have the equipment and then what?" I'm pretty sure the employee signed for it upon receival, so if they claim they "lost" it, then I guess there will be an appraisal and the employee has to pay for it. Please note that they are not responsible for accidents when working, so if they accidentially broke it on their last day, they would not have to pay for it... they still have to return the broken equipment though, they cannot just say "oh, it broke" and keep it.
Aida Paul
Aida Paul
Sure, they are responsible for it whether lost, destroyed or just stolen, but I don't think that would allow employer to just withhold employers salary until that matter is resolved, that just seems extremely biased towards employers, and can easily be abused for leverage, as employee needs their pay way more than company really needs 400$ worth of electronics. Ultimately salary is for work performed, company could've protected itself against property theft by having say deposits for hardware taken off site, or entirely separate agreements outlining it.
nvoigt
nvoigt
10:23
@AidaPaul Well, I cannot judge whether a law is appropriate. It is the law and it is used this way. This can be resolved very quickly by just sending it back, so the "damage" of getting the last salary half a week later than usual seems pretty minimal. They cannot withhold anything substantial, like papers for the next job or contributions to tax/insurance.
Aida Paul
Aida Paul
That's fair, if that's how it's actually used it's what it is, and just because it seems rather uneven doesn't make it any less of a law. Thank you for explanation, it helps! In contrast in the UK, equipment you specifically govern in contracts how that's resolved, and what may be charged if you decide to not return it etc, but the idea of just holding back salary would be heap of trouble.
nvoigt
nvoigt
By the way, you can look up what kind of laptop and phone you could get for 450€... I'd guess that might be a little bit of an understatement, unless their job was developing 90s retro games with a landline. I have a mouse that cost half that.
Well, the idea is that nobody gets charged anything, nobody has to bother with finding an actual number for used company equipment, the stuff gets returned, the employee gets their money and all is good without a court battle, an officially certified appraisal and lawyers on all sides.
Aida Paul
Aida Paul
Let us continue this discussion in chat.
Solar Mike
Solar Mike
@AidaPaul you might find it easier to get your legal questions resolved on the Legal Stack.
 
12 hours later…
Duzii2
Duzii2
22:01
@AidaPaul German laws are very much like laws you find in 3rd world countries, authoritarian and like a dictatorship and people in positions of power abuse it all the time. Not surprising when Germany is an ex-soviet country. nVoight is victim blaming because he has that same mindset. My ex-boss contacted me less than a month before my contract ended. I am 100% remote and we live in different cities. He arranged to collect the equipment in December.
Just so you know, ex-boss asked me if I wanted to buy the laptop and I refused, I was never going to keep the equipment. What if I can't afford to pay my rent, feed my kids, pets etc. because a boss on a power trip decided to abuse his power?
And he does this during in December, knowing I won't get my salary before Christmas.
Ex-boss also quoted me 300 euros for the laptop. And you would struggle to sell the phone for anymore than 150 euros. It's not an understatement. The 450 euros I mentioned is based on facts.

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