@JRE Particle discharge means current is jumping through the air through the medium or insulator. It doesn't create a partial plasma channel like corona discharge does. Particle discharge is known for its popping sounds. There isn't a plasma channel made through the medium yet. That is particle discharge. Hence the name Particle... Discharge. Its used in HV a lot. Its one of those things that should be put on the wiki, but it isnt because not very many people care about it.
@JRE But yet that is what kills so many HV electricians. When particle discharge happens and you get in the middle you will feel a great shock at about 1/3 of the total avalible current. Which obviously does kill many people.
@JRE I assure you that word isn't just made up.
@Marla Great explanation on the transformer question. I loved the answers you gave.
@ThePhoton I appreciate the answers. Some of them didn't completely answer my questions, but some also did. I have messed with probably more dangerous chemicals and gasses than that. Chlorine gas, 100 percent Hydrochloric Acid, Arsenic, plutonium-238 and 239, I've also messed with Uranium 238 and other forms of Uranium. The least dangerous chemical I've messed with would probably be Mercury in its liquid form.
@VoltageSpike One type of ceramic I'm testing around with is a type of clay. When it hardens it becomes a plastic feeling material and the hardening process is as simple at heating the material. It already shows promising results of 6.86- 6.85 kV per mm. I've ran across Teflon materials to come in the forms of strands or some form of stranded solid material. I've looked for sheets but none are long nor thick enough.
@VoltageSpike The clay can have an even higher voltage breakdown rating varying on the design I use. But that is the measurements of the clay being flat and arcing from the flat end. The design I choose to use could raise it by quite a bit. The design I will use needs a lot of knowledge and skills to make, as it requires me to understand exactly how HV behaves. Which I do.
@adamaero I looked at the link for superfund sites. It's pretty interesting. :)
@JRE & @ThePhoton & @VoltageSpike I have calculated roughly how much this will cost. And I've calculated it to cost $29,109.90. This includes all costs as of now. Which is good so far as my budget is $112,000. I have an extra $21,900 for a back up which isn't included in the budget. I've been thinking real hard on this. And I've made up my mind. I'm going to do this project. And I'm determined to succeed. Any help along the way is appreciated. :)
@VoltageSpike & @JRE & @ThePhoton Thank you all for your answers and input. I really appreciate it.
@ThePhoton I got a funny statement from a student of mine a few hours ago. And its got me thinking. He said "An external magnetic field produces a voltage. But it also produces a current. So are the statements "An external magnetic field induces a current", "An external magnetic field allows current to flow" and "An external magnetic field induces a voltage" really necessary?".
Hi, I am making a project with a stainless steel enclosure. Is it necessary to connect the ground of the internal circuit to the chassis? I have seen other projects do this and was wondering what the point of connecting circuit ground to the metal chassis is.
@ThePhoton I told him they aren't because they all mean the same thing. People have just come up with statements that mean the same thing and are meaningless. I prefer everyone to say the correct statement of "An external magnetic field induces a current" more than the others. But if the other statements are said they just mean the same thing.
@zack1544 From what I understand grounding the metal chassis makes it so current flows through the metal container to the grounded end of the circuit. Rather than the electricity flowing through you to the ground. Possibly killing or injuring you.
@zack1544 its used in many metal enclosures. Especially microwaves.
@zack1544 Grounding is meant to trigger a device in the circuit. Or it is released through the grounding conductors in your home circuit. And the GFCI senses the change in returning electrons and trips the GFCI breaker. Turning the power off.
@zack1544 Grounding to chassis are usually meant for short circuits to the chassis. Or another short problem. But for more information I would ping JRE. He knows a lot about this stuff and could help out more than me.
It really depends on your circuit layout. And what configuration you have. Other than that that's all I have for ya. I wish I knew more about this stuff. And I guess its time for me to learn more.
@ScientistSmithYT Thanks so much for the info. My project is not connected to an external AC supply so perhaps I do not need to connect the internal circuit to the chassis? But I am not too sure.
@zack1544 As far as I know whether its DC or AC grounding is necessary. But varying on the voltage and current level. But I guess I'm used to dealing with higher voltages and currents.
@zack1544 They do somewhat the same thing but DC has a twist depending on the voltage.
@zack1544 What voltage is the LiPo battery and what is the mAn's on it? WH can also do if it doesnt say mAn's.
Is the battery advertised as a 3.7? Or a 4.4? LiPo batteries can be 3.7 volts max when charged and say 2.8 volts for advertisement. And 4.4 volt batteries can be advertised as 3.7 volt batteries.
As far as connection the battery to microcontrollers and low power sensors I suggest pinging JRE for that. He knows that more than I ever will. And now knowing it will draw 2.5 amps max and knowing it is advertised as a 3.7 volt battery. My guess is that when its fully charged it will output 4.4-4.5 volts max.
After a few minutes varying on the current draw throughout the use. It will lower to 3.7 volts as advertised.
So as far as the question of do I need to ground it. I would suggest grounding it to the chassis. As it will power microcontroller and low power sensors.
@zack1544 If you were powering say a driver or an LED circuit there's some leeway. And I wouldn't be worried about grounding it to the chassis. But microcontrollers are usually involved with precision SMD's. And you're very welcome. I wish you good luck on your project..
@ScientistSmithYT It's a PDF. You need Adobe Reader or something like it.
@ScientistSmithYT If "particle discharge" is a real thing, point me to a definition of it and a description of its effects and how it occurs. If only you know of it, then explain in your own words how works and occurs, and why none of the HV electricians or HV physicists around the world never noticed it.
@zack1544 Whether or not you need to connect your circuit ground to the metal housing depends on what you are doing.
There's safety ground if you are using line power (AC from an outlet in your home,) but that doesn't apply since you are using battery power.
You might connect your circuit ground to the housing to reduce the electronic noise it prdoduces.
You might connect your circuit ground to the housing to reduce interference you receive from outside.
What I would do if I weren't certain would be to ask a question on the EE main site instead of here in chat. Chat doesn't have many users, and isn't meant to take the place of the Q/A format of the main site.
Start a question. Describe your circuit, your housing, why you chose that stainless steel housing. Describe the circuit, its use. Describe the power supply, and expected power consumption. Describe your sensors, and how they will be used. Provide datasheets to the sensors.
For all I know from what you've asked, you could be building a gadget to measure electrolyte concentration in an aluminum refinery where there's thousands of amperes of current and caustic chemicals - which would greatly influence the grounding and explain the stainless steel housing.
@JRE I've already said the definition of particle discharge. HV electricians don't care much about it (Which is why many die) unless they can visualize the danger via an arc or a fire. HV physicists don't pay much attention to something like this maybe because they don't see that this is what is killing people. Or maybe they do know about it but just ignore it. It is also possible HV physicists have heard of it but dont actually believe in its devastating effects.
@JRE The reason why HV physicists don't do anything about it is a question I don't know the real answer to.
But it's a real thing and does kill.
If you want me to go over the effects it has I can.
For example have you ever been near powerlines and you hear some buzzing sounds? Well in that case it could be (depending on the line voltage) corona discharge. On powerlines since its an in line voltage it doesn't create a total connection. Its a partial plasma channel. Due to it not being a completed channel. Some of the areas along the line may have some particle discharge. Such as at the insulators holding the lines in place.
Due to false popular belief the buzzing is caused by the magnetic field produced by the current flowing through the power line. That is false, as they (seem) to vibrate due to the corona discharge as well as particle discharge. The incomplete plasma channel made changes the air pressure around the channel sending what our ears receive as sound.
The powerlines themselves don't vibrate, its the pressure changes in the air due to the incomplete channel.
@JRE It's around 2:30 the next day in the morning here. I would like to stay up longer. But after today and working all day with a 14 hour shift. I'm pretty tired. I was on my feet running literally back and fourth from shop to shop fixing motors and repairing electric Makita drills. Makita is a great brand, but I hate fixing them, 1 thing breaks everything does. But for me to stay on top of my brain I should sleep.
@JRE I got sent home with 3 Makita drills, 2 250 VAC CNC induction motors, a transformer to rewind (Someone overloaded it and for too long) , and a garage door motor to fix. They all have to be done by Monday at 5:30 in the morning. I've got plenty to do.
@ScientistSmithYT Summary: "Particle discharge" is your own term. You have no idea if the concept is known under a different name to physicists or HV electricians.
@ScientistSmithYT Sounds like a bad place to work. Send you home with work tasks to complete in your "spare time."
@Abcd Home work problems are on topic on the EE site - under certain conditions. Show the assignment. Explain your approach. Show the work you've done. Explain where you are stuck. Folks won't give you the solution, though. They're more likely to ask you questions to you lead to solving it on your own.
@Abcd You have to show what have you been able to figure out by yourself. Up to the point where you got stuck, that is.
I would add that it's a good idea to try your question in chat first. For the most part, the EE.SE folks will not [and shouldn't] just give you the solution. They might give you hints. They will probably get Socratic and ask you pointing questions.
Chat is often a better medium for this, compared to the main Q&A board.
@JRE Don't go putting words in my mouth. And that's not the correct summary. Its not my own term. Its used in the HV industry as a proper terminology.
@JRE Its not a bad place to work. It pays very well. As well as the company owner also knows me. If I go over the work period he pays double. And its my spare time yes. But I get paid even more when its on my time. Its called an "under the table deal".
@JRE When you know buisness very well like I do you can get the employer to pay up to 5 times the normal pay you usually get. But thats if you know how to conduct business. And sometimes you can make things on your own terms. Which I also know how to do. I'm no dummy when it comes to this stuff.
@JRE I see right through business BS very clearly. And I sometimes tell the receiving end exactly what they are doing and that it won't work. Just to prove a point.
@ScientistSmithYT That was what I asked you (definition of "particle discharge",) and all I got was your words and terms. Not a place to look up what you call an industry standard term that I can't find on Google. I'd like to know what particle discharge is, and read about it. If it's a standard term, point me at a definition.
@JRE I've already said that its something that needs to be written down on the wiki. This also includes dictionaries. Its a term used in the HV industry. Terms can be used in industries but most of the time they aren't written down in a dictionary or a wiki page.
