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Asmyldof
Asmyldof
00:00
In every way
The subsequent set of Physicists a few years later didn't improve things
In large part that group is responsible for this whole "embedded is just making a washing machine loop and pray" thing that exists in lots of stuff
The Photon
The Photon
: WASHER ( -- ) WASH SPIN RINSE SPIN ;
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@Asmyldof I take it you'd rather every embedded system use a RTOS, or...?
 
1 hour later…
Tony Stewart
Tony Stewart
01:40
Only if the RTOS works like a fault tolerant State machine. Like SuperDOS would never crash even if you spilled Coke on it.
 
2 hours later…
Giskard42
Giskard42
03:39
* Holds tony's super dos up to a cesium source
 
2 hours later…
Tony Stewart
Tony Stewart
05:15
rad hardened α β
 
3 hours later…
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
08:12
We once had this interview candidate who said that his software is so big free it is even rad hardened
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@Shalvenay I rather have every engineer think for them fucking selves and make actual well thought through choices, rather than go to the one canned solution that hardly fits any situation.
 
1 hour later…
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
09:41
But that's a lost cause anyway these days, with the state of politics, education, etc etc
 
2 hours later…
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
12:08
Speaking of politics, the govmnt has the brilliant idea of introducing a quota for electric cars... "at least you get a car that you can drive home, the rest is your problem we wont help you with"
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
12:35
hum?
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof they have that strange goal of X million electric cars until 20xx or so
just, nobody wants to buy them
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@PlasmaHH I'm fine with buying a Model S if govt backs the claim and actually makes it somewhat affordable for me to do so
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof I can't afford having a car sit somewhere and rot
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
As it stands, not having 50k to waste, buying a gasoline car at 19k, which will cost 3k in fuel and extra maintenance (compared to) a year, will need 10 years to catch up to the Tesla, even if the electricity was 100% free
Model S would work perfectly fine for my uses
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
13:00
Well, you probably have a place to charge it
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
13:16
@PlasmaHH When you buy an EV (here) the dealer throws in the home-charge point and you get a pass to charge at one of many, many public points available in most cities and quite a lot of townships
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof Same here, neither helps me a lot. Can't use the home charge thing, and the next public charge point is several km away.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@PlasmaHH Why not home?
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof House does not have its own parking spot/garage
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Good to hear you're an eco Asmyldof
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@DanielTork You should see what he can do with weed!
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
13:27
O.o
Like what?
But I understand why
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@PlasmaHH Most dealers are happy to convert your home-wall-mount into a card-locked pole here if you press them.
They can actually make poles only work with a specific sets of cards, or at least, some types
Eggi
Eggi
Hi there.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
And/or mount your (already card-locked) home unit on a pole with a 4mm2 cable from home
Eggi
Eggi
Someone working with EtherCAT?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Not at the moment
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
13:33
Lol Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
If you have a simple/small question, just post it, if someone sees it who can help, they will respond. This room isn't active enough to go "Hi, someone....?!" and wait
Eggi
Eggi
Oh. Do you know by chance if there is documentation about the latency for the IP Core for Altera FPGAs?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@PlasmaHH I know how to turn it into hashoil, that help?
Eggi
Eggi
like how long it will take to process data with a certain clock frequency?
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
And IF they answer looks at Asmyldof
Eggi
Eggi
13:34
:)
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@Eggi That will have to come from Altera's IP desciption or a simulation tool using that core. Never used Altera, so I don't know where they put that
Also that's in no way shape or form an EtherCAT question, other than, presumably, this one specific core is EtherCAT
Eggi
Eggi
ok, the ip core comes from the beckhoff company, but i wasn't able to find a hint how many clock cycles it would take to process data from input to outpur
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Still, docs or sim.
And also: Beckhoff * shiver *
Done now
Eggi
Eggi
Beckhoff? What's your experience with them?
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof Anything the dealer gives me I can put only on my premises, and thats just too far away the most of the time, I rarely get the parking spot in front of my house
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
13:53
@PlasmaHH 2 options: Get council permission to place a pole or get council to make a reserved parking spot. Prior is pretty easy here under such ^^ indications.
@Eggi They're too complicated for the results you get
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
14:08
@Asmyldof Both are pretty much impossible around here, the first mostly because its prohibitively expensive, and even with that pole, no guarantee to park there. And while they will happily put out orders of magnitude more parking spot for disabled people, getting unused areas repurposed as dedicated bike parking spots is already a 3 decade project
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@PlasmaHH EV legislation is special. If you say "I want to buy an EV under the current regulations, but I will need to be guaranteed a recharge spot close to home. I want a reserved parking spot with charge point and towing rights." over here it's likely to be arranged in weeks at hardly any charge
Especially if you show some initiative / willingness
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof Thats a really nice thing, in my area, we don't even get some "resident only" parking areas, which is really "fun" for certain sports events just around the corner...
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@PlasmaHH I've had 7 cars registered in the name of the garage next door (second hand or trade in probably) towed from the flat parking three months ago. Made me feel super happy.
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof How does that work over there? You call the towing company directly?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
They'd been warned by council before, so when I called them saying "There's 7 license plates registered to the dealership across the road on our parking", 3 hours later they were in the process of being removed.
No, you call a local district council
If they are in a reserved spot where you have towing rights, you call the towing company yourself
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
14:18
And who pays them?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
14:34
@PlasmaHH Depends on the situation dunnit? Usually the violator, unless it is a totalled or wreck, in that case probably the requester
But you'd have to ask locally, I am not in the habit of calling German council and towing companies twice a year just for the lols
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
14:51
@Asmyldof I know how it works here, wondered on your side, as here whoever calls has to pay and then can try to get the money back from the violator, which usually fails.
(unless its the city who calls them, then you have to pay to get your car back)
 
1 hour later…
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
16:15
@PlasmaHH The pay to get your car back is exactly how it works if you have legal towing rights to a parking spot. If I want to tow someone from my driveway (in the case I had one), that's another story, because that's private property, but doesn't automatically infer towing rights
steverino
steverino
16:37
@Asmyldof Can this site be used to recruit folks without getting in trouble with terms of service?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
17:05
@steverino This chat room? You can try. Any actual Q&A based thing on StackExchange? No.
steverino
steverino
@Asmyldof I have been asked if it is feasible to add wireless networking to the equipment I have been supporting as a technician. I answered yes, but it is outside my skill sets to do so......
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@steverino You cannot post a question to that extend, that is commercially based. The result will be closure within minutes, probably no kick or ban (at least the first time). Nor do people, me included, respond favourably to those who do ask that and then later approach otherwise. But then, I happen to be one of those with an elephant-grade memory for things that happen or get decided, including people that bug me.
If you look for freelance assistance you can try Freelancer.com (or localised) or UpWork.com or such, though for both I have to warn you that the infrastructure is geared to cheap Indian/Chinese/Malaysian labour and you get what you pay for
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof we should introduce this towing right thing here too
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
17:24
** Not to imply that all eastern labour is cheap or bad, I happen to have a very good Chinese mechanical guy who's cheap compared to me, but not cheap as measured on UpWork scale.
@PlasmaHH Run for office, in stead of from your office.
i.e. if you respond to a job on UpWork with an hourly above $10 it's 90% sure you won't get picked, because the kind of people there only seem to be capable to consider a single metric at a time.
steverino
steverino
@Asmyldof Thanks.
 
1 hour later…
The Photon
The Photon
18:34
I'm not sure if my eye is red and I feel bruised around there because of the bump on the head I took over the weekend or because of the code I was reading yesterday.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@ThePhoton Or because of the ebola?
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof mmmm, I hope it's not that.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Hope's for popes. Facts's for ..... .... ... us?
The Photon
The Photon
Maybe it's because I'm an idiot who tries to drive 16 A of load with 2 A of switching regulator.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
This, surely, would have been raised at a design review. Thus that is not happening. Thus that cannot be the case. Thus QED.
The Photon
The Photon
18:38
@Asmyldof Design review? Sounds very corporate BDSM.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@ThePhoton Having your work verified by someone else, sufficiently qualified, is a hard requirement for good design. Open Source software semi-employs that semi-naturally. If your modus operandi does not incorporate it naturally, you need to make it a conscious part. I have it easy, because all of my multiple personalities are fully qualified to tear all my ideas to shreds.
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof Actually we do design reviews. But usually engineers have other high priority tasks and don't feel like paying attention to reviewing someone else's work is what's going to earn them gold stars.
And I even raised the issue that this might not work out...but I hoped I would get away with it because the 16 A is actually four TEC controllers with 4 A max current each, but typically ~200 mA once they get to steady state.
Unfortunately it turns out the controllers like to drive maximum output current when they're first enabled.
So even with staggered start-up, I'm a bit screwed.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Ah, the wondrous world of TEC drivers
I'm getting more and more well versed at this
Though, it always includes an MCU deciding on set-points for current and/or voltage.
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof Unfortunately even when I set the target temperature close to the actual temperature, I get a big transient current at start-up....Not what I was hoping for.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Yeah, so I learnt many a while ago to not use stuff that has a temperature-set-point as only input
Only time I used a temperature based TEC driver the last years is a small box that had a settable current limit. Because it's not only bad for your PSU in more than one design/situation
The Photon
The Photon
18:51
@Asmyldof There's a way to limit output voltage, but we didnt' connect it out...I guess it's time for some circuit surgery.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Now actually debugging the code on a board that controls a normal DC/DC device with a DAC and based on the measured temperatures on either side of the TEC calculates a +/-5% value for TEC current, power and ActualQc with no other measurements
Hinges heavily on using well specced TECs though, which we happen to do for this thing
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof I thought maybe if I quit my job and went freelance, a TEC controller would be a good project. Then I saw Arroyo sells their very slick benchtop controllers for only $1500 and decided not to quit my job that week.
@Asmyldof What about stuff like air-flow over the cold-side heat sink? That's stuff you're hardly ever going to know up front.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
If I sell 100 units I can easily do $700 at whatever spec
@ThePhoton You don't need to know the power flow after the TEC, only the thermal differential across the TEC, the temperature of the Hot Side and the Voltage across it, or the Current through it, both if you want better than +/- 5%
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof Yeah but my experience as the kind of customer who might buy 100 TEC controllers is I'd never buy from some nobody on the internet for that small a savings.
@Asmyldof But the power flow after the TEC tends to affect the cold side temperature at the TEc.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Point being the "Whatever Spec" and also me not making any note of selling 100 to one person
@ThePhoton This project doesn't even guarantee that that IS the cold side, but that doesn't matter, because, as I say, you need to know: 1: The Tdiff. 2: Thot. 3: V or I
Tcold = Thot - Tdiff
Or, as it would actually work, Tdiff = Thot - Tcold
The Photon
The Photon
18:58
@Asmyldof The company I'm buying from actually sells a DIP-packaged controller for $75.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Yes, but that's not a bench-top controller
I also do not build all of my own DC/DC modules myself, obviously
Though at $75, I can probably B.E. at about 40 units using one of my current designs, an Atmel, a simple TEC PID and a GE or TDK DC/DC module if it can be DIP40, I can easily fit it in. (width being the major issue wrt the DC/DC)
or, 1/4th brick? or 1/6th? I'd have to look-up what a brick size is again
Hm. Does depend on output power specs though
Current design I'm working on, only HW, costs about $20 to use 24V and go to 0V to 18V at 6.5A maximum (or 12A below 6V)
And I am adding a ATTiny, current sense resistor and op-amp to that BOM cost
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof Sorry, what are we talking about here? DC-DC converter, or TEC controller? Bidrectional?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
That'd be the current or voltage control module for a TEC
H-bridge for <= 8A BOMcost is about... guesstimated.... $4?
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof Yeah, I actually worked up a design for something like that.
But my boss would rather buy than build.
Considering what he'd pay me for design, debugging, etc., it's probably a smart choice.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Any projects like that coming up in 2+ months? I can have this as a module, with test and performance data by then. :-P
4+ months if it needs to be tested against an array of TECs, rather than one or two randoms
The Photon
The Photon
19:11
@Asmyldof I've got a project to redesign a 48 V in, multiple output power supply board totalling about 250 W...maybe.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
I'm possibly even willing to buy a Detla Power programmable supply+sink to simulate whatever load
The Photon
The Photon
Assuming that's how we decide to solve this not-enough-power-for-the-TECs problem.
Are you under non-compete with Effect?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Non-Compete for stuff that is to do with the stuff we do
A supply board or TEC controller I can very likely get written exception for by way of the CTO mailing back "Go ahead, no problems"
The Non-Compete is more for a company asking me to design them a multi-channel-SMU device to parametrise laser chips, or to design or modify the firmware in a laser-com product, etc
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof That SMU thing is kind of interesting though
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
In the case of the prior especially so because EFFECT is actually starting to sell those as a product to companies here
The Photon
The Photon
19:14
Although my company is no longer in the laser chip business.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
I am working on an idea for a more powerful SMU than the one we have here, for fewer channels, but still much (much) less $ per channel than a 100V 1A Keithley
Design parameters for this one was basically "Many Channels and Smart Firmware before Super Powerful Output", making a +/-10V; +/-100mA capable, but with 64 channels per box of 4 boards.
Got the one 16ch board I assembled by hand at home to play with, completely revamped the firmware in my own time, because being honest, the FW that's locked in here isn't great. It's a result of continually expanding demands on capability.
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof For lasers in the campus/enterprise networking space, 100 mA is plenty.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Was the first board though where I managed to measure that my own Analogue parts were lower-noise and higher-stability than the DAC's internal logic induced
@ThePhoton Which was exactly the point. These chips here do need SHITBALLS of channel count, but no huge currents.
The Photon
The Photon
For something like EDFA pump lasers, maybe not so much
I mean,. 100 mA would not so much be adequate.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
The point is, they now start doing more and more with the Hydra project (already 24 boxes built), because it pretty much is quite awesome to have a self-sweeping, auto-measure-enabled, cross-sync-able signal source and multi-meter with a USB connector, and they start to run into some troubles where they need to link 4 channels to drive some things that are not laser chips
And then I started thinking: In my own time I can probably design a pretty decent 8ch device with some more range here and there and still be okay to put next to a laptop. Create a segmented front-panel, containing 4ch each, allowing people to choose BNC type or Banana Type plugs per 4 channels.
Obviously if you want the electron count mode to give any result you'll need the BNC type :-D
Though I'd need quintaxial BNC or several to really do it right
I have to spend some more time thinking about the connectors and connector options, clearly
The Photon
The Photon
19:26
@Asmyldof LEMO?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
For 100mA the choice was easy: Twisted Pair standard cables. Actually works amazingly well using Kelvin Connection
The Photon
The Photon
Probably not quite as good as twinax
@Asmyldof But LEMO has that nice "expensive test equipment" look and feel.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
lol
The problem is, though, that if I use LEMO, it will also have to become expensive by default, as half the hardware budget will be the connectors, and having someone make cables to sell with it fully UL compatible will be 5 times the hardware budget
The Photon
The Photon
@Asmyldof If you stick to 200% markup, that's more profit for you.
Anyway that's how we used to do it at "a widely-known test and measurement company"
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@ThePhoton Wanna buy an 8ch SMU box made by Asmyldof for triple the cost per channel of a Keithley?
Yeah, I know, I know.
A while ago:
Customer: "What system would you advise for reliable interferrometry?"
Me: <above referenced company>
Customer: "Jeez, they are expensive"
Me: "I know. Want me to pick my experiments on the subject back up, I'm pretty sure I can reach your accuracy at a fraction of that cost..."
Customer: "No, you're not a big company"
Me: "That's pretty much exactly my point as well..."
Customer: "But need big name, else we can't use it."
Me: "Get <company>"
Customer: "But need cheap"
Me: "This isn't going to go anywhere any time soon..."
They basically asked me about a week after I paused my own experiments on the subject, due to lack of contact from said project. They were looking into how to get stuff measured when I thought "I'll start toying with interferro, see what happens" and asked you stuff
The Photon
The Photon
19:34
@Asmyldof Yeah I vaguely remember. Couple years ago now?
Was it university guys? There were some guys in Einhoven doing some pretty good interferometers when I worked in that area.
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
19:53
I've noticed a phenomenon taking place in the ee field:micros are becoming more and more popular.I'm not sure how people are going to deal with the big prices,but the problems is I don't want to sit on a chair all day staring at screen and writing spooky words for some program.
I would have be aimed for IT if I wanted to work for software.Besides it's gonna be boring to just have the same micro do different things .To find it in all the devices,the same thing,but with different connections.Sure,analogue engineers may be protected from this revolution,but I'm a bit worried.What about you guys?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@ThePhoton No, my questions to you about it because of the playing around were last year
@DanielTork That's neither recent nor really a problem if you are actually good at your job
@ThePhoton And then now about two months or so ago the conversation above ^^ happened when I had just stopped playing around. I never told them I was playing with interferro before a week before that I think
Still need a good accurate sliding stage, but don't feel like making the time to find one at a decent price.
I.e. a sliding stage to work as the target, which is known to only move in one direction and can be manipulated at less than lambda increments through some form of manual actuation
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
@Asmyldof but if those IC's are better than the tech you make,you'll be rendered obsolete.You'll be told:"sorry,we don't need that stuff anymore.Found something better"
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
If you think that is remotely likely to ever happen, you need to have a harder look at how many microcontrollers there already are (feel free to count in increments of 10000), and how few things they can actually do properly
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Seriously?Then why do they still exist?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
....
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
20:08
Excluding those for hobbyists
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Why do 74xx still exist?
Why do transistors still exist!? They can't do shit!
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Well,I thought they lost quite some ground to IC's
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
You think transistors are useless because people put a million in a fixed pattern into a small box?
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Well I hoped not
You tell me
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
You tell me how to drive a 2kW stepper motor with only GPIO pins on a microcontroller
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
20:10
Well,I'm not familar with steppers,but I guess they need more current?Right.
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Unless you know of an Atmel with 20000+ pins
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Lol,no I don't
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
I can drive a stepper with an atmel diretcly, but it's a tiny 12mm diameter one used in toys
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Current specs?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
If you want your CNC stage to actually go somewhere without taking a year to get there, you want something bigger
At frequency, obviously not more than 12mA
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
20:13
And bigger ones draw...?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
If anything, the MOSFET market has only become bigger as a result of microcontrollers
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Well that makes sense
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Think of a current you have once heard of
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Nothing comes into mind now.My memory got rusty lately
So what are you hinting?
2A?
Maybe 1.5A?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
Pfft, easy
That's probably about what those cheap DIY NEMA17's do
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
20:20
Hey now,don't mock me,newbies have their own feelings,too
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
You can have all the feelings you want
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Well certainly
They may be cheap,but they're probably not intended for consumer products
BTW,I saw a 555 in a street light circuit
You know,that thing with a button who makes the green light turn on faster so you can cross the street
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
lot of 555's everywhere
Doesn't mean they belong there, nor that they don't belong there
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
But knowing you ees call it "out of service" made me surprised
I mean that was a traffic light system.
The Photon
The Photon
@DanielTork To stay on the market, a product doesn't' have to do everything. It just has to do something that some customer is willing to pay for.
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
20:30
@ThePhoton Yet if less buy that?
The Photon
The Photon
@DanielTork say again?
Daniel Tork
Daniel Tork
Well,if there's less demand for that particular thing?And it gets so low that you just can't make anymore profit.
More costs than profit
It's bye-bye see you some other time
And it's the micro's fault :-)
Nick Alexeev
Nick Alexeev
Not sure about the proper English words, but I'd use some sort of a rubber band on pulleys. Bit like this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Keilriemen-V-Belt.png You have to prevent physical damage to the pots because of trying to turn it too far. — jippie Jan 3 '13 at 14:06
The electromechanical creativity respect goes to @jippie .
jippie
jippie
?
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@NickAlexeev Though....
Your rubber bands will wear out quite quickly.
I'd add a low-power stepper to the axle if it sticks out, or a magnetic coupler around the axle on the front, but those options do cost more
jippie
jippie
20:43
I saw this brilliant video of a V8 engine, made out of solenoids.
that would wear out rubber bands even quicker
Nick Alexeev
Nick Alexeev
@jippie Some of the earliest [XIX century] electrical motors were solenoids with crankshafts.
jippie
jippie
V8 Solenoid Engine
►
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
21:19
@jippie Coolest thing there is it actually sounding like a low-end diesel at full speed.
Don't see what it has to do with rubber bands though
Also really like the time-shaft based gas-pedal and the effort the timing adjustments must have taken
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
21:33
@jippie I am sure a V2 will be quicker at wearing them out in bulk
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
@PlasmaHH Scissors. * drops mic *
Another feature of that video: /me found a new toy to buy at €12/pc:
PlasmaHH
PlasmaHH
@Asmyldof de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggregat_4 (V2)
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
3x Cheap Chinese Laser Tacho and create a set up with all three of them looking at the same wheel, which is timed by my +/- 20ppm pulse counter
@PlasmaHH Ah, such a V2
k
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
22:24
Big Fat Quiz!
 
1 hour later…
Asmyldof
Asmyldof
23:33
The Big Fat Quiz Of Everything - New Year Special HD (6th January 2017)
►

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