Electrical Engineering - 2013-06-26

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anorton

00:00

Not much... I haven't done much on the malware course. I'm more interested in the Discrete Optimization course...

coding_corgi

@anorton me neither...

-<|\\|\\^//|//|>-

cool design....

me is bored, might heat up coffee popsicle ;D, stormy outside, etc. gonna learn some more python..

rawbrawb

@ThePhoton feedback *.pdf here, http://www.dscc.dla.mil/downloads/milspec/docs/mil-std-883/std883.pdf look up "MIL-STD-883H
METHOD 2010.12 26 February 2010 1
METHOD 2010.12 INTERNAL VISUAL (MONOLITHIC)"

page 1 of that spec starts on page 219 of the *.pdf

here is another pdf dieproducts.org/tutorials/quality/august_inspection.pdf with some good pictures as to classifiaction.

and another *.pdf swtest.org/swtw_library/1998proc/pdf/S24_larry.PDF page 6 discusses several standards organizations that are being used.

will be getting feedback from various contacts over the next couple of days.

that last *.pdf appears to be old, but there are leads that can be traced.

3 hours later…

vvavepacket

03:14

Hi, anyone here have knowledge about start motor capacitor?

coding_corgi

@vvavepacket yes,

ha ha, no i don't

vvavepacket

03:35

@coding ok

Infinite Possibilities

04:01

anybody on?

2 hours later…

abdullah kahraman

05:56

2 hours later...

abdullah kahraman

06:29

@DavidKessner Didn't know these existed! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistive_opto-isolator

Look at this cool guy: users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/vactrol/…

jippie

morning

@abdullahkahraman shame on you!

abdullah kahraman

@jippie Good morning

jippie

06:48

did I miss anything good

abdullah kahraman

@jippie Scroll up and find out

jippie

hmm

abdullah kahraman

lol

jippie

someone found the down-vote button. Every answer I type since couple days gets a downvote

abdullah kahraman

07:09

@jippie Is it because they are maybe needing a down-vote?

jippie

fortunately I don't answer too many questions at the moment :)

There is no clue left in the comments why it is a bad answer.

abdullah kahraman

@jippie It is someone jealous, then..

jippie

@abdullahkahraman Yeah and I retired from rep hunting since I reached 10k, so I don't really care, I just notice

abdullah kahraman

@jippie lol, on the other hand, noobs like me have couple more years ahead on them :)

jippie

@abdullahkahraman oh come on, even @CamilStaps does a better job than you :-p

abdullah kahraman

07:18

@jippie So, you are saying I am worse than a noob? :)

jippie

your words ;o)

abdullah kahraman

@jippie Or maybe @CamilStaps is not a noob?

jippie

@abdullahkahraman You went to electronics school

abdullah kahraman

@jippie OK, OK.. I am worse than a noob :(

But @CamilStaps is not a noob, too!

jippie

@abdullahkahraman I am an engineer, not an psychiatrist.

@abdullahkahraman startgamenow.com/…

user61389

07:58

@abdullahkahraman more of those lines :)

abdullah kahraman

08:16

@CamilStaps hahahha! Only if you see the virtual psychiatrist :)

user61389

08:51

@abdullahkahraman lol :)

abdullah kahraman

09:02

> Do you have to buy expensive blueprints from an obscure website to get to know how it works? – jippie 2 hours ago

3 hours later…

jippie

11:35

@abdullahkahraman whazzup?

abdullah kahraman

@jippie lol

jippie

?

abdullah kahraman

?

jippie

12:18

Consider flagging as offensive: electronics.stackexchange.com/a/74114/8627

PeterJ

@jippie, I already had, I guess it has two now I wonder how many it takes to zap a question?

user61389

@PeterJ I already had as well, that's 3. I thought it was 5 for an answer

abdullah kahraman

I flagged it, too. But unfortunately I didn't read the other one thoroughly and flagged it, too :)

user61389

@jippie I see you accepted my tag wiki edit suggestion - how does that work? Is it in the same review queue as the 'suggested edits'? I should be able to vote on tag wiki edits now as well, but I don't see anything changed.

jippie

@Kortuk Ever seen these beers: brouwerijdemolen.nl ?

@CamilStaps I believe there was this huge bronze-medal'like button at the top of the page. I think it comes with the 10k+-moderator tools. Most of the time I think the page shown is rather clumsy, but it popped up the tag-wiki too.

user61389

12:31

@jippie oh, cool

jippie

You'll need a couple more questions for a tag to survive.

user61389

Heh, yes.

user61389

It surprised me there wasn't a tag for it yet

jippie

I'm not sure it is a very good tag to be honest

I'd say find related questions and retag them ;o)

@CamilStaps prove me wrong.

user61389

Why wouldn't it be a good tag?

PeterJ

12:34

What tag are we talking about?

user61389

crystal-set, my baby

jippie

it is a well known circuit, but it is basicaly only used as such. For a first radio set experiment.

as I said, prove me wrong. I did approve on the wiki.

PeterJ

@CamilStaps, but by the time you've got your crystal set working they'll probably have stopped AM broadcasting ;)

jippie

If it was a voting thing, I wouldn't upvote nor downvote

user61389

@jippie I see your point, but there are various variations on the same circuit. But we'll see what happens :) thanks for approving anyway of course

user61389

12:36

@PeterJ I got my crystal set working a year ago ;)

coding_corgi

Yo yo yo!

PeterJ

@CamilStaps, do they use AM much around Europe now? There are still a few stations here but I think locally just one with news, and another that broadcasts horse racing results (think they bought it because the license was cheap).

user61389

@PeterJ not really. The main radios of the different countries do transmit on both FM and AM because they're used in case of an emergency, and we have a few local stations indeed

jippie

Yeah as a green energy thing, they are actively promoting crystal radio sets here (as they don't need batteries), so AM is widely used

2

PeterJ

12:53

@jippie, lol I assume you're joking but that's the sort of idea the Australian government would seriously consider. A few years back I read something about they were concerned about radiation from smoke detectors that had been disposed of, but someone had done calculations as if all the million or so a year were all dumped in a single point.

jippie

:)

W5VO

13:42

@jippie So.... instead of having a bunch of itty bitty powered radios, they want to just use a 1MW transmitter... brilliant

@CamilStaps (cc @PeterJ) It's 6 spam votes to trigger an automatic deletion

PeterJ

@W5VO, brute force is always the best way to go

user61389

@W5VO oh, okay

W5VO

@PeterJ There are a lot of "StackOverflow-sized" requirements that make things a bit more mod-intensive on smaller sites.

PeterJ

@W5VO, we were typing at the same time, I was talking about 1MW of brute force sounding like a good solution :)

W5VO

Please do flag as spam/does not belong (when appropriate). If nothing else it helps us (mods) find it when we check in, and if enough (6) people flag it that way it gets auto-deleted.

jippie

14:20

@W5VO Actually national MW stations for NL are about 1kW-500kW

middengolf.info/radio_5.htm

W5VO

@jippie Just think if everyone used low power internet radio receivers instead of regular radio ;)

jippie

@PeterJ more powerrr, like Tim says in the TV series Home Improvement

oh wait that is unrelated to the radio transmitters :o)

oh wait it was ...

@W5VO Maybe @CamilStaps should try to tune his crystal-set while plugged into the Internet router

W5VO

@jippie I use lots of silicon crystals in my radios :)

PeterJ

I can't remember what they were called but I wonder if those high-impedance earpieces are still manufactured? There are a few places here that still sell crystal sets but not sure if they just stocked up on them and still have them.

user61389

We call them crystal earphones

PeterJ

14:31

I seem to remember a different name as well, but can't really remember it.

jippie

@PeterJ new old stock

or was it old new stock

@PeterJ "whatchamacallit earpiece thingy"

PeterJ

@jippie, now I think about it I think @CamilStaps was right and they were just called crystal earpieces here as well. I guess new/old or old/new is better than used/with-earwax

Too many parts on this one, first one I built had a wiper over the coil instead of a trimcap for tuning

jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KV3540

user61389

:)

jippie

14:51

never built one myself. Too little confidence that I will get it to work.

and not enough wire for a 30m outside antenna

W5VO

Allegedly crystal radios don't work with high power FM present

and I'll use this reason to say why mine didn't work :)

jippie

@W5VO you need an integrator stage for FM

or was it differentiator

or either

PeterJ

or neither?

jippie

to convert FM to an AM'ish signal, you need a frequency dependent gain (LPF/HPF)

PeterJ

AM'ish

The Amish ( ; Pennsylvania Dutch: Amisch, German: Amische), sometimes referred to as Amish Mennonites, are a group of traditionalist Christian church fellowships that form a subgroup of the Mennonite churches. The Amish are known for simple living, plain dress, and reluctance to adopt many conveniences of modern technology. The history of the Amish church began with a schism in Switzerland within a group of Swiss and Alsatian Anabaptists in 1693 led by Jakob Ammann. Those who followed Ammann became known as Amish. In the early 18th century, many Amish and Mennonites emigrated to Pennsy...

jippie

15:08

...

Don't know if they allow a crystal radio set

maybe only if it is for receiving FM broadcasts

David Kessner

@jippie Yes, but only in the morning.

jippie

@DavidKessner not sure where the morning rule came from

David Kessner

@jippie Because it's AM radio.

4

@W5VO Did you just now deal with the Levon Z guy?

I'm not sure that it was the northern Troll.

coding_corgi

Yo yo yo!

David Kessner

@coding_corgi Morning.

coding_corgi

15:17

@DavidKessner grrrrrrrrrrr......

David Kessner

@coding_corgi Somewhere in the world there is a shock collar with your name on it.

W5VO

@jippie I've made a FM radio with a high-Q LC tank and a detector diode

coding_corgi

@DavidKessner none

jippie

@W5VO yes and you 'project' the carrier wave on one of the slopes of the LC-circuit

W5VO

but I was talking about an effect where large FM signals overpowered the detector when trying to use it for AM signals - a desensitized AM crystal receiver.

@jippie It made me smile seeing that work for the first time

Sam

15:20

Hi everyone, I'm new to this SE group. (You can find me regularly in StackOverflow answering Java, SQL, and Android questions.) I want to ask a basic question about relays; is it acceptable to ask people to critique my schematic here? And are hand drawn schematics acceptable (if not what free / open-source software is preferred)?

coding_corgi

@Sam Jawa!!!

David Kessner

@Sam It is acceptable. If you as a Q on the main EE.SE site, and not in chat, then there is a tool there to draw schematics.

coding_corgi

@DavidKessner Circuit Simulator?

David Kessner

@coding_corgi Are you calling Sam a small hooded alien from Tatoine?

@coding_corgi Yes.

coding_corgi

@DavidKessner JAWA = ? oh, right, 'Java'

tat is vat i call java

@DavidKessner then link it to him

Sam

15:26

@DavidKessner Awesome, I didn't want to accidentally ask a plz send me teh codes style question in a new group. I'll give the tool a try.

@coding_corgi Utinni!

Ha, according to Wikipedia I spelled "utinni" right

coding_corgi

@Sam ha ha

@Sam oh, i thought you ment Unity, the 3d game thingy, :P

@Sam The title of the page looks like Java SE = Jawa ESE

;D

Sam

Ha, you must be good at word games to have noticed that.

coding_corgi

@Sam word games? I haven't played one of those for a while

Anindo Ghosh

15:45

'ello 'ello

Sam

I am not an electrical engineer, so forgive my ignorance but does the CircuitLab tool have a ground symbol? Like:

user image

Anindo Ghosh

@Sam Yes it does. First row first icon, in essentials

@Sam It's a triangle with flat side up, tail on top.

Sam

Thank you for a direct answer (and no sarcasm). :)

Anindo Ghosh

16:05

@Sam My sarcasm is reserved for old friends and grumpy mornings (that's an AND operation)

@Sam Oh, and "friends" in that context does not in any way imply any liking for them on my part.

The Photon

@rawbrawb Awesome. Thanks!

@PeterJ San Francisco area still has a lot of AM stations...probably because the terrain is not very nice for FM coverage.

jippie

@W5VO I think I have an inductorfobia, I try to only build circuits that don't need inductors

W5VO

@jippie lol

jippie

@W5VO It is a bad habit to laugh at other people's mental illnesses

W5VO

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Inductor

The Photon

16:18

@rawbrawb I think I need a higher-power microscope.

jippie

@ThePhoton Like Tim the Toolman Taylor says: more power!

but he tends to break stuff

The Photon

@jippie If you can figure out how to break stuff with a more powerful microscope, you have earned my deepest respect.

W5VO

@ThePhoton crash the optics into what you're observing

Huzzah! I have @ThePhoton 's deepest respect!

jippie

@ThePhoton does that include tracking microscopes?

The Photon

@jippie I don't even know what that is.

@W5VO I was hoping for a solution involving LASERs

jippie

16:26

@ThePhoton the microscope that tracks the surface with an electric charched needle?

The Photon

and maybe sharks.

@jippie Like an AFM?

jippie

@ThePhoton that looks similr, yes

Sam

16:48

I have another basic question about CircuitLabs: how should I depict a bilge pump?

It's a simple pump that moves water, it has a positive and negative wire. For the moment I used the Annotation Tools to draw a box and labeled it "Bilge Pump".

coding_corgi

Yay! Got my shipment of happiness!

SFE

The Photon

@Sam That's good enough. Or you can make an arbitrary electrical component with two pins...how to get the pins on the side you want them is not 100% obvious thought.

coding_corgi

I got about 12 oz and got a box the size of 4 bricks

The Photon

@coding_corgi You probably shouldn't talk about it on the internet.

jippie

17:29

hey there is an [on hold] question: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/74140/…

coding_corgi

17:50

@ThePhoton why not?

jealous?

;D

@jippie wish i could vote to reopen

jippie

@coding_corgi start making rep then.

coding_corgi

@jippie Waste. of. time.

jippie

@coding_corgi you only need 3000 rep. You are at 300 now, and have been here for 4 months. So in about 10×4months= 3years you can cast reopen votes

coding_corgi

@jippie great, in 3 years i will have friends and realize i should stop wasting my time

jippie

@coding_corgi you mean real friends instead of imaginary ones?

coding_corgi

18:01

@jippie yes

jippie

Should I say yes, you'll get a real and fun life in couple of years or do you want me to be honest?

l3win

18:52

I´m looking for a small scale oxygen sensor that is compatible with 5-9 V DC. Does EE know of anything?

jippie

@l3win I've seen various gas sensors (like MQ series), but can't say I ever saw an oxigen sensor.

W5VO

19:23

We have oxygen sensors in rooms where we use LN2 (asphyxiation risk), but they aren't small.

jippie

is a bird an oxygen sensor or an carbon-monoxide sensor?

David Kessner

@jippie A bird is a coal mine sensor. :)

jippie

It isn't a great answer (which is why it's in the comments), but it isn't a great question either. – @DavidKessner yesterday

:-))

David Kessner

@jippie Liked that one, did you? :)

W5VO

@jippie While we're talking about that... opinions on the latest meta thesis?

jippie

19:34

?

I don't follow you right now @W5VO

W5VO

-1

Q: How can we recover quality here?

I expect everyone has noticed by now the rapid increase of badly written questions over the last several months. We seem to be getting higher traffic, but that seems to be due to a flood of crappy questions that then need to be closed. I haven't actually counted, this is just a feeling, but I s...

jippie

Too bad a question can only get 5 tags, otherwise the black box question would qualify for the Darwin tag ;o)

Oh I'll check in a minute @W5VO if it is not too long, because I was about to call it a day.

W5VO

@jippie heh.... it's long

David Kessner

@W5VO I think that in broad, general terms he's correct. Although I think that bad questions just comes with the territory, and there isn't much we can do about it.

jippie

@W5VO oh man it is huge! that's a nice discussion for tomorrow morning.

David Kessner

19:41

@W5VO I can understand.

It would be interesting to see what the "return customer" ratio is. Someone signs up, asks a single question, and then is never seen again, vs. someone who comes back and asks more questions.

abdullah kahraman

Phew!

I opened up chat tab, and I saw Olin's head, and I thought he was in the chat!

Phew..

Hakonbogen

19:58

Probably too simple and noobish question for main site, but what to use instead of jumper cables when connecting stuff outside pegboard? Like from Arduino straight to some LEDs fitted on a lego car for example

David Kessner

@Hakonbogen A Cable?

Hakonbogen

Yes

@david Thanks for replying, is there a common name for small cables to connect LEDs and such to the arduino thats more handy than the jumper cables

David Kessner

@Hakonbogen Buy some connectors that will fit. Buy some wire. Connect them together. There is no "standard" cable that I am aware of.

Hakonbogen

the end of jumper cables are not elastic, so its really hard fitting them to any LED pins

David Kessner

@jippie I'm working on a response. Stand by.

Done.

jippie

20:14

m

anticlimax @DavidKessner

@DavidKessner wait, are you trolling? I shouldn't be feeding a troll.

David Kessner

@jippie Still there?

jippie

@DavidKessner just about 3 minutes or so

yeah I shouldn't feed you

time for bed

/me is out

clickkk

rawbrawb

20:50

@W5VO To tell you the truth I've decided I'm not even going to spend any energy on this. Partly because I don't know that I can separate the messenger from the message. I just see it as more whingeing, whether it is valid or not. There was the serial downvoter thing which shows people in bad light, he avoids it by ignoring the logical conclusion by saying the data is cluttered, ever hear of CSV download and Excel?

This last pout session seems to be prompted by the change in the close system. Which had been discussed extensively in other Meta posts " closing doesn't mean what you think it means" now that the system has changed within an hour he's posting about "purity" again. I've decided I've got better things to do than to argue a point with someone who like posting snarky comments.

abdullah kahraman

user image

coding_corgi

@l3win pretty sure SFE has one

oops, my bad, they don't

l3win

21:05

@coding_corgi What is SFE? I did a quick google search and I did not find an oxygen sensor under this brand

Scott Seidman

Man, entering 100-pin packages in Eagle libraries makes me want to tear my eyes right out of my head. I deserve it, for not liking the way the ultralibrarian puts the whole microchip part onto one giant gate. I wrote an octave routine to write a script todeal with the land pattern (I used NOCREAM and added 100 polygons to the tcream layer, and didn't want to do it manually!)

coding_corgi

@l3win spark-fun electronics, did you read my other message>

@ScottSeidman you're in a pickle now! ;P

@l3win why do you need a O sensor? maybe we could help you out...

maybe you don't need an O sensor

maybe you're just guessing

maybe there are other options

maybe...

l3win

I need it for gas analysis of combustion exhaust

coding_corgi

@l3win ah, why don't you just google O sensor?

google.com/search?q=oxygen+sensor&aq=f&oq=oxygen+sensor

goto() shopping

;P

The Photon

21:24

!!!

Also, looks like you are lacking knowledge here. Your explanation is vague and mediocre at most. — Pedo 5 mins ago

coding_corgi

me is out

hasta la vista

The Photon

Click through for impending fireworks

WTH was that?

W5VO

@ThePhoton Tony... apparently he calls himself a pedophile. Should probably warn his grandkids.

David Kessner

21:48

@W5VO I'm fairly sure that the family has long since abandoned him.

The Photon

22:18

@DavidKessner But, but, his brother is CEO of Switzerland or something

David Kessner

22:37

@ThePhoton You're confused. It isn't Switzerland, it is Twizzlerland. And it isn't the candy company. It is a Twizzler-themed park centered around a Tough-Shed and a vending machine.

Scott Seidman

@coding_corgi Wow, got all the patterns entered, now I have to create the part and match up the pins. Library management and editing is the weakest part of Eagle, IMO

The Photon

22:58

@ScottSeidman Building a footprint for a big part isn't much fun in Altium either.

Scott Seidman

The footprint part was actually cool. I wanted manual control of the cream layer for the fine pitch, so I would have had to manually place a polygon in each pad. I just wrote an octave program to spit out an eagle script to take care of the whole thing.

@ThePhoton All done, by the way. I inserted the pad number (invisible, after an @) into each pin name, so matching it up to the pad was a breeze

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