Photography Chat

12:17 AM

@rfusca You know, I've seen a lot worse. There are way too many "say cheese" smiles in his portfolio (never show them off), and the sets tend to be way too busy for my taste (you can buy some of them from Back To Back Design Works if you want 'em), and processing decisions I wouldn't have made, but not horrible overall.

As for the 40 bucks, that's really not at all unreasonable when all's said and done (processing & retouching--usually by an employee or contractor working at reduced wages-- packaging, delivery, admin costs, etc). Your wiggle room for entry is more likely to be in your session fees.

Start as low as you can afford to (taking into account your actual costs, of course, as well as your planned market positioning) then, once you're established, crank 'em up incrementally as long as you're busy and feel you can deliver value for the money.

rfusca

12:37 AM

@StanRogers nod

@StanRogers I don't think its unreasonable for his experience, I didn't mean that

I was just pointing out what the major players around here were, I've been trying to gauge where I should target

Stan Rogers

@rfusca It's not about the experience level, but about the actual costs + markup on a seemingly small print. The printer output may cost two bucks, but when you factor everything else in, $40 represents an optimized workflow.

rfusca

@StanRogers well your prices aren't determined strictly by yours costs...that just not how it works. So his prices are at least at his costs plus whatever profit he can get for his time

Stan Rogers

There's not a whole lot you can do about the print package end -- you'll be working uphill trying to bring that to real profitability for a while. At a $40 8x10, your markup will never be more than 100% in real terms. Don't make it a loss leader, or it can represent real losses. It's the session fees you can afford to play with.

If you can afford the $300 investment, I'd really recommend getting Peter Hurley's The Art of the Headshot video. Not only does he have some great advice you can apply to adult portraiture in general, he hits the business end pretty good as well.

Oh, and Tamara Lackey's The Art of Children's Portrait Photography has some excellent business advice as well—probably the best practical advice I've seen. (Yeah, I review things sometimes.)

rfusca

12:56 AM

@StanRogers i may have to check that out

i read this book earlier, it was pretty good

Stan Rogers

@rfusca It is good, but I've learned over a long and hard life that getting all (or most) of my advice from a single source leads to pain, confusion, and swimming upwards at the waterfalls.

rfusca

@StanRogers oh ya, i've got other books on my list to read

Stan Rogers

I really ought to write up some of those reviews for the blog here at some point...

rfusca

that one mainly dealt social media marketing, which is something I really need to do more reading on

@StanRogers definitely!

Stan Rogers

@rfusca Social? If it didn't change from week to week, it would be so much easier.

@rfusca I missed the whole blog setup thing (in hospital at the time). What does a fellow have to do to get something posted?

rfusca

1:06 AM

@StanRogers just let me know you want to contribute, i'll set you up an account and it'll email you. RE: hospital - everything ok?

@StanRogers actually, I do need an email for you, since its not on your account

Stan Rogers

@rfusca Routine complications from Parkinson's. My body sometimes has trouble regulating hydration, and I spend an annoying amount of time getting saline IVs. Not a biggie, just a pain in the patook.

@rfusca A dot between the first and last names (or it goes straight to the trash) at Google's mail service.

rfusca

k

@StanRogers sent

dpollitt

what is with all these new tag wiki mod reviews

is there a reason why they arent approved already?

rfusca

1:32 AM

@dpollitt no particular reason

dpollitt

@rfusca what were you saying about 40$ 8x10s? are you trying to get some done by a pro? or are you trying to make some $?

rfusca

2:40 AM

@dpollitt oh, I'm transitioning to try to do some part time pro stuff and I was looking at other pro's in the area - one of the well established ones charges 40$ for a 8x10

dpollitt

nice, good luck!

i'm heading the opposite direction lol

rfusca

@dpollitt lol, iknow - any particular reason?

dpollitt

i think i am doing my last wedding this summer

'eh a bunch of reasons. i'd rather just get back to what i love in photography, and that is trees, and water :)

rfusca

ah, right. I knew that

see, I enjoy portraits

dpollitt

yea, if you enjoy it, why not

so $40 seems expensive right

i'm in a facebook group of some pros in my area

last week one of them posted his new pricing

i think you will enjoy this

Small - (8 wallets, 2 4x6's, 2 5x7's) - $75
Medium - (8x10 up to 16x20) - $215
Large - (16x24 up to 24x36) - $395
Extra Large - (30x30, 30x40, and 40x40) - $595

Canvas:
Medium - 11x14 to 16x20 - $375
Large - 16x24 to 24x36 - $650
Extra Large - 30x30, 30x40, and 40x40 - $950
Life Size - 40x60 and 55x55 - $1450

rfusca

2:43 AM

a single 8x10 is 215?

dpollitt

i think my favorite is $215 for the 8x10

isn't it great :) I told you that you would enjoy it

rfusca

if the market will take it, more power to him

no kidding

dpollitt

his reasoning for the 8x10 cost was that, he doesnt want people to buy that

he want everyone to go big or go home more or less

he wants to sell more 16x24 and 30x40 apparently

rfusca

right now, i've just gotta be focusing on getting new customers for the networking and expanding portfolio. so my prices are gonna be pretty low

@dpollitt who doesn't, but dang...at 400 bucks...

dpollitt

yea, once you get a few pro shoots down.. people will start streaming in

word of mouth takes over

and that is king in wedding photography

rfusca

2:46 AM

well its just going to have to be non-wedding portraits to start with. I've never done a wedding and I'm not going to practice on somebody's big day. So I've got to figure out how to break into that market yet with some practice on a friend or such

i've still got a few unmarried good friends, so I'm hoping that i can test the waters with them

@dpollitt - boy, smugmug.se....whew, dead

i've been doing a bit of customizing and trying to use it though

dpollitt

@rfusca yea, no kidding. i'm a mod... there is nothing to mod

the head guy from the company basically kills it. please contact our smug heros, blah

rfusca

@dpollitt ya :/

Stan Rogers

$_DEITY help you. Weddings are something you're either cut out for or not. I love portraiture and people pics in general, but you couldn't pay me enough to do another wedding.

dpollitt

yea, i agree with you stan..

its like the most stressful 12 hour day of my life... everytime lol

rfusca

@StanRogers see i think i would enjoy weddings, I like high pressure situations like that

dpollitt

2:51 AM

@rfusca i dont think its going to make it out of beta anytime...

rfusca

@dpollitt ya, i don't think it ever will

lesson learned - don't force a site into beta

@stan did you get the blog email?

dpollitt

My first wedding was for a friend

rfusca

@dpollitt ya, thats really common I think

dpollitt

they knew full well of my inexperience. But it was a perfect setup. They had expectations very well in line with my abilities. They were going to either hire me or some random family member. Also, it was small, and easy as far as weddings go.

rfusca

got it :)

dpollitt

2:55 AM

It was still terribly stressful. But luckily i rented tons of good glass, and read as much as i could and prepared as much as possible. So it turned out just fine.

Stan Rogers

Tks.

dpollitt

Looking back, i should have shadowed a pro or learned from apprenticeship. But i didnt, so oh well.

rfusca

@dpollitt ya, if I get the chance to do it for a friend, i'd rent some gear - namely a second body

@dpollitt thats what i'm hoping I'm able to get

@dpollitt if you could only have one lens - what would it be?

dpollitt

ha, one lens? for a wedding or in general?

and one that i already own or any lens available?

rfusca

both ways, wedding and general. And it doesn't have to be one you own

dpollitt

3:01 AM

weddings, i could probably shoot an entire wedding with a 70-200mm f/2.8 IS

It wouldn't even be difficult

but i could also probably use an 85 f/1.2 or a 135 f/2

for general, i would just get a 35L f/1.4

rfusca

@dpollitt so, why that lens? Its really common for wedding photogs

dpollitt

the canon 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II is a magical lens. it is unbelievable how good it is. It is tack sharp, always. Very fast at focus, image stabilization is excellent on it. focal range is great for almost every wedding shot.

the only "downsides" are weight and cost. which arent downsides to me

I think the last time I rented it, it was like 45$ for the weekend when I rented in town

I could shoot like 50 weddings before I would be better off buying it over renting

rfusca

@dpollitt ic

dpollitt

I own the cheepie version of it, f/4 non-stabilized. Only costs about $600

perfectly great if you aren't inside a dark church or reception hall!

Wedding photography really demands only the best gear...

rfusca

@dpollitt lol

ya, no kidding there

dpollitt

3:08 AM

but even renting from lensrentals isnt bad

when you are getting into it

just dedicate $125 or so for 2 lenses that you need to rent

then you are set

rfusca

ya

or get the se lending program to cover it lol

dpollitt

the biggest problem, is once you rent those massive expensive beasts, it is hard to use anythign else!

rfusca

thats what I did to rent an 85mm for a shoot :)

dpollitt

@rfusca yea I should have rented something for my trip to belize, but i couldnt think of anything i needed

which 85?

rfusca

@dpollitt nikon 85mm f/1.4G

dpollitt

3:10 AM

i wish canon had a 1.4 85

the only have 1.2 and 1.8

wow, that nikon is just as expensive as the 1.2 canon though

big bucks lol

rfusca

yup

its crazy good though

dpollitt

yea. the canon 1.2 is too. Made me cry when i had to send it back

85mm f/1.2 - Wish I had it right now..

rfusca

@dpollitt nice

@dpollit - i'm buying a 85mm f/1.8 - not as nice, but its still a really, really modern lens, just released, supposed to be tack sharp wide open

dpollitt

oh yea, the 85 1.8s are real nice

that is what i own

and the canon isnt very new either, but still awesome

great value at least

rfusca

@dpollitt ya, well nikon just updated theirs. They have an old one and just released a much updated version

dpollitt

3:18 AM

good, maybe canon will follow suit

rfusca

faster AF, sharper, lighter, etc

dpollitt

do you have a 50mm prime already?

rfusca

@dpollitt yup, i've got a 50mm f/1.4

dpollitt

ya the 85 overlaps, but they are both nice

rfusca

but i'm thinking about selling it after I get my 85mm and buying something like a 28-70mm f/2.8

dpollitt

3:19 AM

i always wish i have both in my bag

yea you could do that too

damn lenses lol. always want them all

rfusca

lol ya

dpollitt

alright past my bedtime

see ya

rfusca

ciao

night

@stanrogers - what about you, if you just had one lens, what would it be?

ShutterBug

4:20 AM

@rfusca it would be 70-200... suits my style

rfusca

@ShutterBug don't you have it in f/4 now?

ShutterBug

yes

well i normally dont go out after sunset

rfusca

lol

ShutterBug

so for the last few days I am taking only it with me

previously i used to take 50mm

but i am feeling more comfortable now... the flexibility is nice

rfusca

nice

ShutterBug

4:26 AM

i sent you a link about childrens portraits few days ago

did you get a chance to take a look?

rfusca

@ShutterBug hmm, i didn't see it

care to send again?

ShutterBug

this guy has done some real good works, hes from my country

wait a sec

desherchobi-ideasrbulletproof.blogspot.com/2012/04/…

rfusca

@ShutterBug lol, those are fun!

ShutterBug

sure they are

and very convincing for parents (as they are the one will be paying for the photos, its important to convince them, not only good quality photos will suffice)

rfusca

@ShutterBug they're not my style, i wouldn't feel comfortable doing it, but i can appreciate them

ShutterBug

4:30 AM

i had a feeling, anyways theose are good photos :)

rfusca

definitely

i'm not much for props in general

fluf

4:47 AM

morning

hey @ShutterBug

rfusca

@fluf morning

fluf

hey @rfusca

anything interesting happen while I was sleeping

rfusca

nope

fluf

hrm

winter is coming to slowly :( it's so damn dark and cold in the mornings but the afternoon its full on summer :/

rfusca

sorry

fluf

4:55 AM

yes it's your fault! why didn't you make the earth tilt faster :/

take that huge lens you linked last night and toss it down to the southern hemisphere

:P

jsut realised it might not have been you linking the lens

rfusca

lol

ya, not me i don't think

fluf

hows the baby?

rfusca

doing well

sleeping well

fluf

lol stupid minibus taxi stopping in the middle of the fast lane and putting their hazards on, everyone is on their horns but he doesn't move. then blue lights appear and the taxi is gone....

@rfusca thats good to hear so momi is also getting some rest

rfusca

@fluf yup

he's a really good sleeper at night, so that makes it all easier

fluf

5:04 AM

cool

so it seems there will only be 3 windows 8 versions win 8, win 8 pro, win 8 rt (arm chips)

rfusca

my website is finally starting to come along

not done, but looking better

fluf

linky?

rfusca

spottsphoto.com

Stan Rogers

@rfusca Sorry about that -- lost the connection for a bit (3G wireless). For my own shooting, I've been more than happy with an 85-105mm on a 35 (a nifty fifty on APS-C is close enough) the vast majority of the time.

rfusca

@StanRogers nice - you got a site with any of your work?

fluf

5:11 AM

@rfusca you've got a missing image on Investment

rfusca

@fluf i do? weird..shows for me...hmmm

fluf

hrm

rfusca.smugmug.com/Other/Pricing/i-5JGbQVd/0/S/DSC3993-S.jpg this one

Stan Rogers

Working on it right now, and going out of my way to do everything for it with a used 6MP D70 and only a 50mm/1.8. The theme is "your camera is better than mine—stop whining and start shooting".

rfusca

it doesn't show for you?

fluf

nope :?

rfusca

5:13 AM

hmm

fluf

it might be some routing issue perhaps, I'll try grom work and let you know

we often have issues like this here in SA especially DNS issues

Stan Rogers

@rfusca The actual work I've done over the past few years is pretty sensitive/private, so no examples.

fluf

friggen ISP's don't update their records or messes them up somehow

rfusca

@StanRogers gotcha

@fluf can you see the one on investment now?

fluf

yeah cool :)

rfusca

5:15 AM

cool

i'm gonna try to get another shot for that one, but i'm not sure what to put there

but it need something

fluf

are you going to make the blog a sub domain?

rfusca

@fluf ya, eventually

fluf

ok

time to pack up

rfusca

its all still a WIP

and its not like its super complicated

fluf

bbin40minutesorso :P

yeah it's looking good so far :)

rfusca

5:17 AM

but customizing smugmug to look like a real website isn't easy

but in the long run, it'll be nice to leverage all their gallery stuff for clients easily

fluf

I wonder why they make it so difficult though

just another cms

rfusca

i wouldn't describe it as 'difficult' - its just rare for me to do front end stuff, so its been years since I messed with CSS

ShutterBug

5:33 AM

hello @fluf :)

fluf

5:51 AM

hey @ShutterBug :P

how's everything going?

ShutterBug

peaceful so far :)

fluf

ahh ok

are you still extremely busy with work?

ShutterBug

a little relaxed at the moment

but fearing the upcoming pressure :(

fluf

6:06 AM

quiet before the storm?

ShutterBug

6:18 AM

lol... kind of... yes

fluf

so no new photos

rfusca

can you right click and save a pic here? spottsphoto.com/Portfolio/Portfolio/15852003_Vt9dgn its supposed to be disabled, but isn't for me

ShutterBug

only one @fluf

hope to upload another tonight

fluf

not disabled

ShutterBug

flickr.com/photos/fahad-faria/7085929901

fluf

6:27 AM

javascript thing?

ShutterBug

@rfusca yes I can...

fluf

I normally just go to source if I can't right click. (normally I don't save other peoples photos)

rfusca

k, thanks

ya, i know its not a foolproof thing, but it lets people know that they shouldn't

fluf

@ShutterBug growl (jokes)

ok

was it a just random or was the tiger mask part of some festival prep?

ShutterBug

@fluf its Bengali new year festival in here

fluf

6:32 AM

@ShutterBug ok

I really would like if our MD came to work :/

I'm going to make as if I'm busy ciao guys enjoy the day

ElendilTheTall

9:53 AM

@rfusca check out buildinternet.com/project/supersized/download.html

full screen photo slideshows, works really well and disables saving.

nothing stopping a screen dump, but you can't do anything about that anyway

fluf

10:31 AM

@ElendilTheTall quite cool but you can still get the links ->
http://buildinternet.com/project/supersized/slideshow/3.2/demo.html

so it's about the same as js blocking rc

the pic is Maria Kazvan's one I suspect

I just took the first one as an example :P

ElendilTheTall

12:17 PM

@rfusca first draft of blog post saved on WP - needs photos which I'll add later

let me know what you think

Instantkamera

@rfusca It's kinda hacky, but I customized smugmug and blogger

rfusca

2:22 PM

@Instantkamera ya, i'm customizing smugmug and wordpress together. I'm going to try to get a consistent header across the two so that its not obvious you're switching

@ElendilTheTall its ok, it will certainly work. A. It needs images...badly. B. Needs some formatting - ie, italics, bold, something to just break it up some and add emphasis to certain places. C. Bold the headers D. Link back to the SE loan program when you mention it

ElendilTheTall

@rfusca yup, aware of that - I took some comparison pictures to show the aberration in my cheap lens, I'll include a couple of bird pics, and pics of the lenses. I'm aware it's a wall of text atm

rfusca

@ElendilTheTall ya I know, it wasn't meant as a criticism there, just an affirmation of what you knew

ElendilTheTall

cool

I realise it's not Pulitzer material, but then it is kind of stating the obvious - better lenses are better

just thought a newbie would want some more detail as to why

rfusca

ya, its definitely targeted toward somebody who doesn't know that - its at a pretty '101' level

but thats not bad

especially considering most of the SE site isn't

ElendilTheTall

that was my thinking too

Portraits next month - can you think of any blog posts you'd like to see around that?

Hopefully with the 70-200 2.8

rfusca

2:34 PM

@ElendilTheTall thanks for that link. I'm not super paranoid about the theft, I just want a reasonable deterrent to stop folks who simply don't know better.

ElendilTheTall

sure - big photos are in atm the moment anyway, so regardless of security you might want to look at it

rfusca

ya, my current thing can do full screen - its just about the best way to also get navagation and such on there.

ElendilTheTall

the supersize thing has a thumbnail strip along the bottom and nav arrows either side

or you can just set it to run a slide show

@rfusca Portraits next month - can you think of any blog posts you'd like to see around that?

rfusca

@ElendilTheTall one sec, meeting

ElendilTheTall

okies

could possibly branch it off your Portraits at Any Price post

@rfusca I like how you refer to your wife as 'the woman' - I might try that later...

rfusca

2:50 PM

@ElendilTheTall where did I do that?

ElendilTheTall

3:06 PM

in your blog post

The image is more or less successful here. The features are sharp, the woman stands out from background fine, but if anything, the background is not sufficiently blurred.

rfusca

@ElendilTheTall oooooh, like that

ya, its not like I said "woman, go make me a sandwich"

fluf

I believe its @rfusca go bake me a bread :P

jokes :)

rfusca

Proper User Policy apparently means Simon Says.

hey @laura

Laura

hello :)

fluf

Hi @Laura

yeah I like that one

rfusca

3:17 PM

@fluf I tried it and my wife doesn't respond to sudo

@laura it'll be interesting to see how the community responds to the pinterest thing

the photography community, in general on the net, doesn't seem to like it much

i'm almost certainly in the minority

fluf

I don't like the terms of pintrest

rfusca

see ^^^ ;)

fluf

basically something like anything you pin you claim that you own the copyright

rfusca

i don't either, but I'm all for 'controlled exposure'

Pins happen, so I'd rather they be by my choice

fluf

most of my photo's are basically free to use + atrib

rfusca

3:21 PM

somebody putting it on pinterest doesn't suddenly actually grant them the copyright

fluf

but I won't want anyone to "claim" copyright over my images

rfusca

if they tried to use it other than your provided license you would still have a case

fluf

lemme find the tos just to make sure irc

and lemme read the entire post

I'm eating fudge so sugar rush

rfusca

plus.google.com/113455290791279442483/posts/3moRstAdXGD

@elendil how long do you think it'll take for you to finish that post?

fluf

ok cool read everything

go for it

Laura

3:32 PM

@rfusca yeah, i've seen very few pro photogs in favor of pinterest...the notable exception being trey ratcliff. but again, it could be an awesome tool for exposure to a new audience. i'm really curious to see if more people weigh in, or if people will be quiet because they're undecided.

rfusca

@Laura ya, i've updated my answer a bit. Hopefully we'll get some interest

its been really, really nice to see some interest in the blog

we may coax a post or two out of @StanRogers too ;)

Laura

:)

I'm glad the blog is picking up again

rfusca

definitely

Laura

Which brings me to my other announcement - there's a shiny new "Community Bulletin" feature that we can use to promote meta and individual initiatives. The goal is that it will create a stronger link between the main site and meta site by a) being visually different from the largely ineffective "visit meta" section that blended into the sidebar and b) allowing mods to manually enter items of interest

2

rfusca

@Laura you're big on social media marketing - do you have any favorite resources or books or blogs or such? I'm going 'part time pro' and social media marketing is a big part of it

@Laura NICE - where?

Laura

3:40 PM

@rfusca I'll make a list of some good stuff for you. After I'm done gushing about the community bulletin - you should see it on the top of the right sidebar on both photo.se and meta.photo.se

We've rolled it out on a handful of sites (cooking, too), and it'll be live network-wide soon

rfusca

@Laura awesome, thanks

Instantkamera

@rfusca yeah that's what I have done. It's not that hard, but I guess it depends on your layout etc. instantkamera.ca, blog.instantkamera.ca and images.instantkamera.ca are all hosted in different places with different services

Laura

you should be able to access the menu to add events from your mod tools

Instantkamera

images.instantkamera.ca is smugmug (power user account)

rfusca

@Instantkamera ya, i'm sure its not hard but I'm just not much of a front end dev. My CSS and such is super rusty

and I don't know much at all about wordpress customizing and themes

@Laura awesome

Instantkamera

3:43 PM

nor do I (re wordpress) I ripped blogger apart and replaced bit by bit. I also cheated with my header, which is a simple png with a sitemap. both blogger and smugmug allowed that much customization, so it all worked.

rfusca

@Instantkamera hmmm not a bad idea on that

should be easier in that regard

Instantkamera

I even made different header png load depending which page you are on, so it "looks" right

rfusca

@Instantkamera ic ic

Instantkamera

also note, smugmug will allow favicon

mattdm

0

Q: How is this done?

Does anyone know of where I can find a tutorial on how to this type of effect?

Step One: find the ocean

Step Two: look for some big rocks....

rfusca

3:46 PM

@Instantkamera ya, I'm doing that

@mattdm ya, seriously

Instantkamera

@mattdm hahaha

fluf

lol

rfusca

glad to hear that...cuz I looked at that and what like 'uhh...am I missing something'

fluf

he prolly wants to know about the flat water and the dark sky at the top

like doing IT support for older people, forget everything you know and look at what they see ?

rfusca

@fluf 99% of the time the answer is "turn on the computer"

fluf

3:51 PM

lol no... my dad sometimes asked me how add an attachment to an email. How to send a photo etc.. so I gave him a simple application so you rc on the image and choose the size and told him to drag the image to the mail :P

most of the trivial problems at work are due to people not reading their mail :/

rfusca

lunch bbl

Laura

@rfusca Most of what I've learned about social media and marketing I've picked up in bits and pieces in a combination of classroom work (a bunch of it is related to anthropology, which was one of my majors in college) and actual work experience. I worked at a digital marketing agency before I started at Stack Exchange, and I interned at a boutique social media agency in college.

Reading blogs from within the industry is useful - a lot of stuff is written about big multinational brands, but those types of case studies can be useful/inspirational even for small business owners. Things like mashable.com are great because they're good at staying on top of fresh tools, good campaigns, etc. but their articles are short and really accessible

Some digital agencies have good blogs that can show you how social marketing is applied to a variety of verticals (likeable.com/blog and 360i.com).

And I also find it helpful to read higher-level articles about marketing and the spread of ideas - people like Seth Godin and Guy Kawasaki are good at that stuff. (They both have blogs and books worth checking out)

Instantkamera

@rfusca The hard parts are "containing" the user as much as possible on you smugmug site, so the user experience is "your site", not smug

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