Photography Chat

AJ Henderson

00:17

@MattJ yeah, that's the same exposure

just adjusting the exposure settings of the raw

@EsaPaulasto yeah, that was actually at a -1EV metering

I had problems the last time I shot in such harsh direct lighting, so now I always shoot -1EVs in that kind of lighting

it might cost me a hair in total dynamic range, but it seems to still get pretty close to maxing the RAW

AJ Henderson

15:13

slow day

Michael Nielsen

16:43

black jackets are the worst for photos :)

AJ Henderson

17:24

I'll have to post some of the color correction examples later too

the reception was in a room with HEAVILY yellow colored light

I've got images where it looks like flowers are all the same color, but after white balancing, you end up seeing that they are vibrant and different colors

you just can't tell from how colored the lighting in the room was

still not sure if I'm going to white balance them out or not for the final delivery though

it's the old question of do I deliver it looking like it was or like it would have been with normal light

MattJ

18:00

Looking like it was through the camera, or through human eyes? Don't people automatically compensate for the light source somewhat?

Michael Nielsen

18:18

we know that it is dark. its hard to replicate the feeling of darkness where we can still see from a camera. auto often makes it look like daylight

auto should calculate teh absolute EV from the camera settings and act accordingly

MattJ

I think the question of light/dark is easier, and people tend to recall memories without thinking of light levels I imagine :)

AJ Henderson

19:07

@MattJ cameras will often see color more firmly off-white than we perceive it, but if the light is harsh enough it still looks colored to us. It's more that for some reason when we see something on screen our eyes don't correct the same as seeing it in person I think.

but I was specifically referring to the fact that in this case it seemed yellow to people in the room as well

and the camera captured it fairly accurately as it appeared at the time to the human eye in this case

I personally generally go half way in between, but normally the lighting isn't as harshly colored as it was at this place

actually, in general, my 5dm3 does a pretty good job of representing colors as they appear to the eye... well at least my eye. I guess I shouldn't assume I see things the same way as most people after over a decade and a half of learning to look at details that normally people don't pay attention to

MattJ

19:22

Heh

Esa Paulasto

20:17

@MichaelNielsen sure :)

this was looking just okay at the graveyard, but when back home I realised I'm not going to get the white roses back :P

Something like AJ's 5dm3 would have got it all, but still I'd say not too bad for an entry level system camera.

AJ Henderson

20:39

@MichaelNielsen no, black jackets in shadows right next to either harshly lit, or even worse, back lit white with a veil is the worst :)

granted, I'd still take an outdoor wedding over an indoor one for image quality

because being able to shoot fast shutter and low ISO is awesome

@EsaPaulasto that image seems a little washed out on this screen, but I'm not sure I trust it based on what else I've seen from your camera

my guess is I'm either seeing curves issues or possibly just my crappy work screen

Black point and saturation seem wierd

possibly shadows too

but hard to really tell without being on a calibrated and lab accurate screen

but that also goes with the idea that it was a bit over exposed since the range of the exposure seems to still have some floor room before you hit the black floor

Michael Nielsen

20:56

my first impression was that its washed out, too. I think the black jackets are very noisy and the camera knows it, so it denoised it to death. Ive seen teh same with nikons and they use sony tech ,too

AJ Henderson

hmm, well that's anticlimactic. I apparently just got the ability to protect questions on IT Security

Wohoo!!!

I was trying to decide if that was the most exciting thing to happen today, but then I realized I woke up and took a breath, which is pretty much more interesting

MattJ

IT security, shudder

I spent the day reviewing IT security-related legal documents, I'm here trying to forget that :P

Esa Paulasto

21:17

@AJHenderson Could be your work screen, but more likely it is just me. When processing that photo I tried and tried to get some tones into those damned white flowers, while keeping only half-eye on the black clothes. Sloppy work, for when I eventually gave up trying I just left it as it was atm.

@MichaelNielsen heh, camera de-noised nothing. It is RAW and if anything de-noised it, it was the software and possibly me working the levers.

Michael Nielsen

21:31

so pull it down and show us the real deal :)

Esa Paulasto

working on it atm ;)

Michael Nielsen

that shot would probably work with a deeper black, B&W, no denoise at all and even adding grain (lightroom has a nice grain algorithm if thats what you use)

Esa Paulasto

Sony's Image Data Converter is what I use: sony-mea.com/support/download/520263

out of curiousity I turned Noise Reduction Off.

Black clothes are not so bad, it is the mid-tones that have noise.

^^ faces and jacket shoulders

Michael Nielsen

post it? poisson noise has bigger deviation the brighter it is, but effectively less noticable because the signal is squared, and electronic noise is the same level over all, and this easiest to spot in the dark.

unless they dunk the black down to signal+3xstdev

Esa Paulasto

21:47

Yeh, I got tired already, will post as it is now :D

with the Noise reduction turned Off for you :)

hmph, forgot to crop the sides away.. framed as shot.

and it is 50% resolution, showing one pixel for each four original pixels, which takes some of the noise away.. Must be too tired to think straight tonight :P

@MichaelNielsen Cropped a 100% pixels sample for you :)

Michael Nielsen

a pic form a nikon of my friend

my jacket had no texture.

left: nikon processing

right: my own raw (I just did for comparison in imgview plus more for this purpose)

my face really isnt fluorescent as it look with the nikon processing :)

Esa Paulasto

What do you mean by "Nikon processing"?

Michael Nielsen

nikon caemra development

incamera jpeg

Esa Paulasto

ahh, incamera jpeg says it loud and clear :D

I would not know, I stopped doing RAW+JPEG

Michael Nielsen

your raw has incamea jpeg embedded, so you can always bring that out and compare

sometimes I noticed that my canon does something to bring somethingout that lightroom or imgview fails

Esa Paulasto

22:01

oh, that's right. Though I have no means to extract it. Never needed it, so I have not installed any program able to do it.

Michael Nielsen

so I can compare and see something is there and then I can work to bring that out in my raw

Esa Paulasto

And since I'm using Sony's RAW converter, all I need to do is turn all tuning settings to Auto-mode, and I guess that's pretty close to in-camera JPEG.

Michael Nielsen

@EsaPaulasto kinda looks like a cellphone picture. maybe Im spoiled with the lumia

did you shoot F22 or was it really dark that day?

Esa Paulasto

@MichaelNielsen hehe, it was overcast weather, a kind of thick haze really, not distinguishable clouds to be seen.

AJ wanted to see deeper blacks, so that's what I did. I'm not really awake enough to do better than that tonight.

Michael Nielsen

@EsaPaulasto on this one all the wouldbe noise in the black is completely vanquished by compression noise

looks like a youtube vid with 240p

Esa Paulasto

22:08

@MichaelNielsen Yes I realized it only after I posted it. That's why I cropped a 100% pixels for you to check on that noise.

Michael Nielsen

is it your kit lens?

Esa Paulasto

That's the "close-up" on those two women, true pixels showing with no de-noising done to it.

yes of course it is the kit lens, I did not grow rich overnight :D

Michael Nielsen

check if sigma makes a 17-50mm 2.8 EX OS HSM for sony.

Esa Paulasto

Drop the letters "OS" off and it may be available for Sony.

no need for double stabilizing ;)

Michael Nielsen

its really cheap 3.000DKK, and I have a hard time distinguishing it from teh 24-70 2.8 canon that costs 16.000DKK I rented in real life performance, looking aside the 51-70mm length.

Esa Paulasto

22:11

I also have focus motor in camera body, in case the lens has no auto-focus motor built in.

Michael Nielsen

it still needs to be the same as the OS HSM. as the old version without OS was crap!

Esa Paulasto

good to know, thanks. I will get me some new optics later, but no chance for upgrades in the next 12 months or perhaps even the next 24 months.

@MichaelNielsen Shutter 1/400 sec - f/5.6 - ISO 400

and loggin off, good night :)

Michael Nielsen

assuming that was a wide shot, why not iso 100, 1/100s?

thers something about sony sensors way to achieve "higher iso performance" that give sme a wierd feeling. like postporcess denoise, in preproces, which means even teh raw is affected. I prefer the more obvious signal + noise from traditional sensors, where you have grain but the signal is more true.

Michael Nielsen

22:58

Bubble Bobble

here the camera thoguht the background was a white/grey wall, but it is my green sofa

but the pixel vals are grey

this is more like it

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