VBA Rubberducking

Hosch250

20:00

FWIW, that is just stupid. Anyone inside the company won't do it right.

FWIW, I've seen this in action. Church meets in an office building, and I came around the corner when we were leaving ahead of everyone.

Two people were standing there talking quietly, and one literally ran back to their truck when I came around the corner. My dad let the other guy in.

There was a burglary reported that day.

IvenBach

@Hosch250 Pineapples are more afraid of a monetary fine than they are of death.

Hosch250

Are they?

Some are, anyway.

Mathieu Guindon

@IvenBach fools, they don't realize both are the only certainties of life. death. and taxes.

IvenBach

Death's the only certainty.

At least here in America.

Mathieu Guindon

20:16

aye, us Canadian communists pay taxes :)

IvenBach

Taxes might be universally applicable in other countries. Sure seems to not be so for the poor or the filthy rich.

Mathieu Guindon

@IvenBach half the price of a pack of cigarettes is taxes here. the poor definitely pay taxes.

and don't get me started on gas

IvenBach

I'll admit gasoline is more expensive outside of the US. $3.85/gal is where prices are for me currently.

Hosch250

@IvenBach About the same, maybe a little lower.

It spiked last week. I went from $30 to $40 for a tank.

Mathieu Guindon

@IvenBach that was the price 25 years ago

IvenBach

20:20

@MathieuGuindon What's it currently?

Mathieu Guindon

funnily it's been quite low for a week, but I fully expect it to be double that in the upcoming weeks

i.e. ~$1.30 (CAD) /liter

it's been ~$1.15/l all of last week

spiked around ~$1.45/l last summer

IvenBach

Time to break out the ~~calculater~~ Excel for the conversion.

Comintern

Think that's bad, you should try filling with premium.

Mathieu Guindon

that's $5.80/gal, CAD -> ~$4.40/gal USD

oh yeah, that's just plain regular gas

Comintern

TBH, that's roughly what gas would be in the states if the gas tax had kept pace with inflation.

Mathieu Guindon

20:24

hmm, I might have over-estimated the conversion rate

Comintern

And we'd have roads that were worth driving on...

Mathieu Guindon

looks like I should be buying my USD spending money for summit soon

damn gamble

with my luck USD will tank if I buy now

Comintern

Does the USD-CAD exchange rate fluctuate that much?

Mathieu Guindon

@Comintern lol, Quebec roads are known to be crap

@Comintern went as low as 0.65, now at 0.76, was just around par in 2008

Comintern

Huh. I guess these aren't exactly times of economic certainty.

Mathieu Guindon

20:27

CAD tends to go up with oil prices

Comintern

Personally, I could do with a short bout of hyper-inflation.

It would functionally wipe out the majority of outstanding debt.

Hosch250

@Comintern North Dakota roads are awesome.

And MN roads aren't bad, mostly.

Comintern

@Hosch250 Shouldn't that be "road"?

Mathieu Guindon

lol

Hosch250

LOL.

They completely redid I94.

Comintern

20:29

That's the first thing I always notice when I travel to Europe.

Hosch250

And the other roads are good too. Watford City, Mandan...

Comintern

The interstate system isn't bad around here - it's mainly everything else.

County and municipal roads are probably the worst.

Hosch250

Our municipality just finished redoing the worst of the worst.

The rest were pretty good.

The next one will probably be the main road through town.

It's not bad, but it's not the most awesome either.

Not looking forward to that. I'll have to change how I come home.

Comintern

A lot of it is simply wasted money due to federal highway policy.

Hosch250

Maybe if they spent their money on simply fixing things instead of arguing over which abstract artist should receive funds...

Comintern

20:32

Forced to use the lowest bidder, and are forbidden to have contractors guarantee work if you're using any federal highway funds.

Hosch250

(No, that's not a real scenario, just being sarcastic.)

Yeah, and the lowest bidder doesn't do the best work.

Comintern

^

Hosch250

And they'll lower their bid if they get guaranteed work.

Instead of being a one-off job they probably have to rent extra equipment for because they don't typically take on jobs of that scale.

Comintern

I80 is literally under constant construction - it's like the start at one end, and when they're done, they start over.

IvenBach

Armageddon Lowest Bidder

►

Hosch250

20:34

What I think they should do is develop a system where they set up a sort of factory line.

One chain of trucks pulverizes it.

The next comes maybe a mile behind and cleans up.

Then the grader, then the ones to lay the new one.

Mathieu Guindon

@Comintern that's exactly what the entire island of Montreal has been for the past 6 decades

Hosch250

They could go a lot faster, instead of doing one stage for 10-50 miles.

And having most of it dead while they concentrate work on one mile or so.

Mathieu Guindon

Montreal: Stuck between orange cones since 1967

2

Hosch250

It wouldn't work if they need to replace the sewers, but they don't usually need to do that.

Comintern

@Hosch250 "Need to" and "should" are 2 very different things.

The water mains in my neighborhood are about 30 years past their engineered service life.

Hosch250

20:37

Water main and sewer are different. :)

Storm sewers rarely need to be changed for highways (if they even have them).

Comintern

Sanitary sewers and storm sewers are also very different.

Hosch250

Yep.

But municipal work is on a different scale than highway work.

Municipal work is usually more of a block by block issue, not 50 miles or whatever.

Comintern

True. The main issue around here is that municipalities tend to chase tax revenue from new development, so a hugely disproportional amount gets spent on new construction v. maintenance.

IvenBach

SoCal just waits for earthquakes, then it fixes all the stuff that breaks.

Ya'lls got them yearly twisters and freezes that screw stuff up.

Comintern

Tornadoes rarely damage roads. If they ripped up asphalt, there probably wouldn't be anyone left alive to need them repaired.

Still waiting on the New Madrid Fault Line to let go again...

FreeMan

20:51

Y'all are paying a ton for gas! It's been pretty stable at $2.24/gal for regular at my normal stop for about 2 weeks. I've seen it at about $2.50 elsewhere around town, though.

Comintern

I'd drive out to Indiana to fill up, but I'm thinking it would need to go up a ways locally before I'd break even on that.

FreeMan

@Hosch250 They just did that on a 20 mile stretch of my primary commute road. Overnight they'd cold-surface about a 1 mile stretch and have it repaved by morning with all the equipment moved out of the way. Took about a month, but hardly ever had a lane closed down during commute times. It was awesome!

@Comintern Never worth driving somewhere for cheaper gas. Most vehicles have a 20-gal or smaller tank. If you pay 10¢/gal less and coast in on fumes, you spent $2.00 less. How much time & gas did you waste driving there?

IvenBach

> Took me 2-1/2 hours to drive out there and fill up my 150 gallon tank and it saved me $15.

That kind of math don't add up.

Comintern

IKR?

Hosch250

For most people, it wouldn't. But if you have that big of a tank, it kind of does, actually.

Comintern

20:57

I couldn't even tell you what gas costs here. I fill up when I need to fill up, and pay it. Not much else to do.

Hosch250

Because you are obviously on the road a lot either way.

IvenBach

We all derp on other less obvious stuff though.

this

@FreeMan I saw a documentary some years ago where they had to build new bridge over a very busy street. Closing it down would have been disastrous for everyone. So instead of building it the usual way, they prefabricated the entire bridge infrastructure and used huge ass machineries to move the single piece and just plop it in the place. Only had to close the road for one day.

Comintern

I do, however make a point to fill up in Iowa when I'm driving through though. It's better than getting robbed at the tollway oasis on the way into Chicago.

Vogel612

gas is around 1.60€ per liter around here

which translates to something around 8€/gallon

mansellan

21:00

Yep. If you don't like your gas prices, you'd hate ours..

statista.com/statistics/221368/gas-prices-around-the-world/#0

Basically double in Europe

Comintern

Screw driving to Indiana. I need to drive to Venezuela.

this

hmm. Venezuela looks suspicious.

IIRC, they have price controls there

Comintern

^

this

Which is also why the scarcity.

i find it oddly hilarious that Russia is cheaper than US, though.

Vogel612

gazprom works wonders

this

21:03

oh so they bring gas to proms?

Strange but OK!

Comintern

Meh, it trades off with the hidden costs of corruption.

mansellan

Uk price would be up with Norway if Labour (main left-wing party here) had been in power over the last decade. They had plans to ramp the tax on it through the roof, on hold as they're not in power.

Comintern

Curious what the UK price would do if the Scottish independence referendum passed.

mansellan

Not much. Less and less oil coming from the North Sea as time goes on. Iirc most of our oil is imported now.

this

That's what you get for hunting whales to near extinction, you know?

:-p

Comintern

21:11

Thought that was the Japanese.

mansellan

Which is a big reason why they didn't vote for independance. Without north sea revenue, and without uk central taxation revenue, it would be very tough for them to balanve the books.

Vogel612

yea, they're not terribly tourist friendly and whisky and wool just don't quite pay enough

Comintern

"balanve" sounds more Welsh than Scot.

FreeMan

@this I've seen something like that, too! In China I think this one was.

TTGH...

Mathieu Guindon

@Comintern need more whiskey, and less teeth

Comintern

21:12

lol

this

@Vogel612 They may take issue with that assertion. Where else can you toss a log or heavy stones?

Mathieu Guindon

ironically, Scotland is in the top-3 places I'd go with my wife for honeymoon trip

Vogel612

black forest, Switzerland, Austria

Mathieu Guindon

I blame Diana Gabaldon

this

They do similar things? First time I heard of that.

Vogel612

21:14

@MathieuGuindon it ain't for everyone. I mean... I'd go, but the zeitgeist seems to be to go to the warmth

this

I've heard of them being responsible for today's bowling sports, though.

But the tossing log thing? Pretty much just scots.

Comintern

@this So bowling is like the caber toss version of bocce?

this

I'll leave it up to Vogel to answer.

Comintern

"Ahl knock yer dammed ball teh the glens, ye tosser!"

Vogel612

@this question: Are you sure you didn't break event renaming?

events and interface renames still don't pass..

this

21:22

I haven't gotten to that point, IIRC.

as I did want to run it throught unit tests to verify the changes to hte dialog were valid

Vogel612

hmm .. aight. AFAICT the stubbing / mocking is correct, but the changes are not applied by the refactoring

this

one thing I know for sure was that in original implementation there was too much going in the presenter

and i had moved it over to the refactoring class

and that's about where I wanted to unit tests to verify those changes since the presenter should now be dumber and the refactoring a bit more smarter

and that's where I got stuck in the mock/stub quagmire. :\

Vogel612

aight. Then I'll consider these broken correctly and will attempt to fix in the code itself

this

deal. Sorry about that.

Vogel612

I don't really mind, it makes for a nice change of pace :)

this

21:27

obtw, it might be also the merge commit. I tried to merge the changes to rewriting (and some other thing) carefully as I can.

Vogel612

I will whip the other unit tests into a working state before that, though.

this

taking their changes over mine.

IvenBach

Woot! Giddy moment going through an example and saying "that's a delegate" before looking at the metadata an confirming it.

this

Nice!

IvenBach

public delegate TOutput Converter<in TInput, out TOutput>(TInput input); is now understood by this melon of mine.

Hosch250

21:47

@Vogel612 They could be tourist friendly if they tried.

Scotland is pretty much the one foreign place I'd like to visit.

Well, New Zealand and Australian outback too.

But otherwise, the US has pretty much all the landscapes I'd like to see, from jungle to volcano to prairie to tundra to (normal) mountain to ocean.

Mathieu Guindon

22:03

US doesn't have ruins from 2000 years ago though. Athens, or Rome, I'd like to see once in my life.

(Roma?)

Hosch250

@MathieuGuindon It's nicer without them :)

this

depends on how you want to spell it. English, Rome. Romance languages, Roma, IIRC.

Hosch250

Who want's not just last generation's trash, but last millenium's trash? :P

this

or just straddle it with Rom[ae]

Mathieu Guindon

I'm not sure I'd call the Trevi Fountain "trash", but sure

Hosch250

22:07

I was thinking Coliseum.

Mathieu Guindon

also

Hosch250

Well, if you go there, have fun.

Mathieu Guindon

the whole of US history stands in the palm of the rest of the world's history. it's literally a footnote in the Big Picture.

Comintern

@MathieuGuindon It doesn't?

Mesa Verde National Park

Mesa Verde National Park is an American national park and UNESCO World Heritage Site located in Montezuma County, Colorado. The park protects some of the best-preserved Ancestral Puebloan archaeological sites in the United States. Established by Congress and President Theodore Roosevelt in 1906, the park occupies 52,485 acres (21,240 ha) near the Four Corners region of the American Southwest. With more than 4,300 sites, including 600 cliff dwellings, it is the largest archaeological preserve in the United States. Mesa Verde (Spanish for "green table") is best known for structures such as Cliff...

Hosch250

You could say so.

But then, I don't care about the picture. When I go on vacation, I get as far away as I can.

Comintern

22:10

My dad was a history professor - the joke around the department was that the U.S. history profs should be in the "current events" department.

3

Vogel612

@this in German it's "Rom".

Mathieu Guindon

lol

Vogel612

in Latin (and Italian) it's Roma (just as this correctly stated)

Hosch250

I like it when I'm several hours walk from people, and I can't see anyone as far as I can see for distance and/or landshape.

Vogel612

Romae / Romai is a directional casus

this

22:11

@Vogel612 #TIL. Clarify - You're saying Italians call it "Rom", too? Then I'm mistaken. I thought they called it "Roma".

Vogel612

#brainfart

Hosch250

Not sure I should've made this comment from my work computer:

Interestingly enough, they might want to wear normal clothes too; these suits will have to squeeze the entire body evenly, and with different pressure per body part (or the soft parts will be squished too hard or even pulverized), so it'll look like a nudist camp. — Hosch250 3 hours ago

Mathieu Guindon

@Hosch250 at this point I wouldn't worry too much about it. if your work was monitoring your web traffic you would have been in trouble a loooooooooooooong time ago ;-)

Hosch250

LOL.

I overheard that my work computer is using bitlocker.

So, that means they aren't using the old monitoring software.

They fired that guy a long time ago.

this

@Hosch250 seems useless. What good is locking a single bit?

IvenBach

22:26

I went to install Office/Sharepoint development, and installer installed a second version of VS with it enabled. I'm guessing #PEBCAK was the root cause.

@ThunderFrame extended insomnia?

Either way, welcome back.

ThunderFrame

@IvenBach just turned on my phone, chat was open from last night.

IvenBach

Whichever the case is I'll take as much #ThunderTime as I can get.

Hosch250

22:46

LOL.

Listening to a song about old politics.

And they are talking about, guess what?

Cold-calling!

Vogel612

what do you mean, they didn't like that back in the day already?

Hosch250

Yeah.

They were talking about how they wanted politicians to stop doing it, and how Barry Goldwater wouldn't do anything because he used two dixie cups and a thread.

And all Nelson Reckefeller's ladies, LOL.

The first lady, and the second lady, etc.

Things haven't changed :joy:

this

@Hosch250 that's why we have the saying, "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

Comintern

LBJ's Bunghole Needs Room!

►

^ That's my fave.

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label feature-refactorings to issue #4528: Refactoring Tests are testing the whole refactoring system

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label technical-debt to issue #4528: Refactoring Tests are testing the whole refactoring system

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label rubberduck-test-project to issue #4528: Refactoring Tests are testing the whole refactoring system

IvenBach

22:55

@Comintern HAHAHA WTF... Hadn't heard that before. Oh sweet goodness.

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label difficulty-01-duckling to issue #4528: Refactoring Tests are testing the whole refactoring system

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label development-issue to issue #4528: Refactoring Tests are testing the whole refactoring system

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label up-for-grabs to issue #4528: Refactoring Tests are testing the whole refactoring system

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 opened issue #4528: Refactoring Tests are testing the whole refactoring system

> This showed up when I was working #4072.

Most of the "unit tests" related to refactorings had tests for the different component parts of the refactoring pushed into a single file.

That means tests for Presenters, Models and Refactorings all were inside the same TestFixture, posing as a "Unit Test" while actually relating to a whole system.
These Tests should be moved into separate classes. Common helper methods should also get their own class.

This necessitates creating separate f

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label enhancement to issue #4528: Refactoring Tests are testing the whole refactoring system

Comintern

@IvenBach IKR? If Nixon had ever heard that, he wouldn't have ever recorded a thing in the White House.

IvenBach

That was all way before my time. "Things shur wur a bit diffuren' back-n-the-day".

KySoto

wow

today was a blurr

Vogel612

aight... @this compilation errors in all tests fixed.

IvenBach

23:05

I'm confused. The example code under docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/vsto/… has Excel.Range firstRow = activeWorksheet.get_Range("A1");.

Vogel612

I just outright dropped the Tests that were testing for a smart factory or a smart presenter

I assume that's in the spirit of the change :)

IvenBach

Yet I don't see it on the _Worksheet interface

Vogel612

ugh... nevermind. VS is being a frigging pain about compilation issues again ..

IvenBach

Can someone help me with a few breadcrumbs to understand this a bit better?

this

@Vogel612 yeppas

@Vogel612 for all refactorings?

Vogel612

23:12

yea. Just not for the damn commands

for whatever reason VS apparently never got around to building them ...

stupid PoS software

this

@IvenBach dunno if applicable but could be members of globals? Or default member access which means on range interface

Vogel612

~confused

nah. the RefactorCommandTests went belly-up after I fixed all the others

this

Fat finger....

IvenBach

I can navigate to it and see it in the metadata, within _Worksheet's definition. Without the example though I'd have no clue that it exists.

Comintern

@IvenBach That's .NET code using the Interop. It exposes properties using that syntax.

IvenBach

23:19

Do you have any further reading I could do about this?

Worksheet Interface Remarks has an explanation that I'm working through. Kindergarten coloring it up for comprehension may very well answer my question.

Comintern

I can't find anything ATM, but that's fairly standard in interop libraries.

Here's what the disassembly looks like:

[DispId(197)]
[MethodImpl(MethodImplOptions.InternalCall, MethodCodeType = MethodCodeType.Runtime)]
[return: MarshalAs(UnmanagedType.Interface)]
Range get_Range([MarshalAs(UnmanagedType.Struct), In] object Cell1, [MarshalAs(UnmanagedType.Struct), In, Optional] object Cell2);

I'm guessing it's due to Range being an indexed property with an optional 2nd indexer. That's not something you can do with a property in .NET

Duga

23:39

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 created comment on issue #3072: Get Ignored tests into working

> The original cause of this will be "fixed" when merging #4072 because the tests have been dropped. There are still some ignored tests, though. So I'll leave the issue open

Vogel612

aight. that fixes all compilation errors.

PR to update the PR to mainline is open, but WIP

that means: It's time to kill some zombies :)

IvenBach

23:51

@Comintern I've dug and found MethodImplAttributes Enum, MethodImplOptions Enum, MethodCodeType Enum, and UnmanagedType Enum. Same with MarshalAsAttribute Class for its use.

M.Doerner

@Comintern Aren't all properties exposed with explicit get, let and set in the C++ interop assemblies?

IvenBach

Indexers allowed using a property of a class as an array. But since Range is just a 2D array of cells that's not allowed, it ends up being a hack/work-around?

Comintern

@M.Doerner In general, I think the auto-generated ones are. Excel.Interop is a custom one though.

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