VBA Rubberducking - 2018-09-17 (page 2 of 2)

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3:03 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 187e0083 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build succeeded

If I have 3 columns in my table (ColA, ColB, ColC) and I make my unique PK on ColA, ColB, that will cover queries on both columns and queries on ColA alone, but queries on ColB alone would end up as table scans, right? (where "ON" means that column is in the WHERE clause)

well yeah but if you have 50% of your queries filtering on colA and other 50% on colB, then there's no reason not to create a 2nd index with colB

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] BZngr synchronized pull request #4127: Unreachable Case Inspection: follow-up

@QHarr To understand how Vb6/VBA stores data, I found this article to be quite useful.

e.g. it's OK to do stuff like CREATE INDEX IX_foo1 ON foo (FirstName, LastName); and CREATE INDEX IX_foo2 ON foo (LastName, FirstName);

3:06 PM

@this I was planning on creating a 2nd index, just wanted to be sure.

to support queries where you need different sort orders for instance.

You just want to be sure that there are plenty of queries that'll benefit from the index in question

because maintaining unnecessary indices involves too much overhead on insert, right?

not just inserts but also the updates and deletes.

you gonna keep your tree balanced.

ah, yes. We don't do too much updating/deleting - it's 99.99% a reporting dump.

lopsided trees just aren't aesthetically pleasing

If you are in fact dealing with a reporting warehouse where the data only get dumped in once a month or whatever and the rest are historical, then there is no concerns with having "excessive" number of indices.

The concern is primarily a OLTP one, not OLAP one.

3:17 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 0899d1df on unknown branch: AppVeyor build succeeded

occasionally we screw something up and have to delete a bit of data, but yeah, it's a warehouse. We just don't use that term - there's a corporate EDW project and when we initially were asking about server space for our DW, there were all kinds of feathers ruffled. Now we call it a "database" and everyone is happy.

Yeah. That kinda place...

("E" for "Electronic"...)

3:38 PM

@Inarion indexRow immediately comes to mind as an adequate parameter name.

morning

only took almost 2 freaking hours for windows update to finish with me

-_-

@KySoto LOL. I don't know how you guys managed to have such massively slow updates :(

it was a "big feature update"

ive been putting it off for like a week or 2

Old, slow computers? Old installations of Windows with updates instead of fresh installations across major version changes?

i think it was the spring one

3:44 PM

Oh, yeah, those take a long time.

eh the only thing actually slow about my computer is the spinning rust

@KySoto Oh, yeah, IT probably took forever to approve it.

im IN IT lol

yeah im running a 4th gen i5

the 4590

24 gigs of ram

for a work PC its decent

Yeah, that shouldn't be bad at all. It's more RAM than I've ever had.

heh

my home PC is at half capacity at 32 gigs

if i wanted to shell out like 400 bucks i could get the other set

3:47 PM

4 for my Mom's Mac at first (she upgraded it later). Then 8 for my first home Windows, and 16 for my current home Windows and my work computer.

actually... i dont know if thats how much

ooof 415 dollars

newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232230

to get the second matching set

That's a lot. Especially when you probably don't need it. I mean, at that point, your CPU might become a limiting factor.

Or your bus or something.

when i bought them initially it was only 230 bucks

oh i was talking about my home comp there

Oh, that's the super powerful one, right?

Or was that someone else's?

mines not SUPER powerful

but it is pretty damned good

you know, the funny thing is i didnt spend all that much for my computer at home, considering hte specs and costs now

3:52 PM

IKR? I think they might be hiking prices higher than they need to be.

well DDR4 is spiking in price because of smart phones

we may be in an artificial shortage too

@M.Doerner Thank you

It may also be a spike because a lot of things are artificially high now.

People got too exuberant in their investing shortly after Trump was elected.

It always goes in spikes and waves during election times.

true, but the cell phone thing may not be just misdirection

True.

3:56 PM

it COULD be that there is a really high demand

I don't know what it is.

Exactly.

but they are only exaggerating just a little

i mean, i read an article about it like 6 months ago

Businesses need computers for their employees. When business grow, so does demand.

then read an article shortly after talking about the artificial inflation

Especially when a lot of small businesses are growing pretty well over the past year.

3:58 PM

the problem is the penalties for doing the wrong thing dont scale with what they are doing, so they do something illegal that makes them pay 1 million in fines, but they net like 100 million off it

you think they are going to stop?

its cheaper to break the law if all they lose is a little bit of money

though really, those fines probably wouldnt even be 1 million, theyd more likely be closer to 250k

The gov can't do anything if someone raises their prices (unless it's a monopoly on the product), unless there is collusion between multiple businesses.

@this :click: Now it makes sense why RDBMS are fast. Using offsets since every Row and Field are the same width. :+1:

If just Intel raises the price on their processors without colluding with AMD, the gov can't do anything.

yeah, i think there was clear evidence of collusion on the ram manufactures part

i dont remember for sure

Last I checked, RAM was cheaper than SSDs by quite a bit, and SSDs are way cheaper than 6 years ago when I first got a computer :)

4:02 PM

ddr3 maybe

Oh, probably.

ssds are pretty cheap, ddr4 is not.

Yeah, I think it was ddr3.

I don't follow RAM that much.

well ddr4 came out in...

2014?

the first cpu that was not an extreme edition cpu that used it was the 6th gen intel parts

that came out in 2015

4:20 PM

@this how did you originally install WiXToolset?

owait... nvm

you prolly figured it out already but i opted to use a nuget package so that all of its build tools are available without doing a install

What did the criminal say when he was sentenced to be hanged?

(Now, no hints, Iven :P)

@Hosch250 Hang loose, bro.

Close :)

"Do it quick, 'cause the suspension will kill me."

And that is gallows humor.

@IvenBach FWIW, fixed-width row lengths are rare those days, I think. They use different strategy for handling fast lookup with dynamic size for each row.

4:33 PM

@this nope, you didn't...

what?

the NuGet package for the toolset doesn't install, because we don't have a wixproj

ooooh, that's right

which was why I was asking in the first place

instead you versioned the binaries directly

@this :un-click: Thought I understood.

4:34 PM

so I just went for static.

exactly.

yeah

sorry

@IvenBach You did. Just that this isn't a common optimization nowadays.

interestingly the script works just fine when I run it manually..

the other thing that bothers me is the we get a powershell write error

the only difference in params I could find was that the PostBuildEvent used singlequotes instead of doublecquotes

4:36 PM

it's as if powershell didn't have the permissions to create that other file

@M.Doerner @QHarr I also found that article helpful. I should read it again with my increased experience now.

@Vogel612 the only time single quotes vs double quotes matters is when you are expanding a variable inside

if i remember correctly, single quotes dont expand them

@KySoto I can't trust my memory but the event is running in a BAT context

so I have to do double-double-quoting

oh. then i dont remember

and eww

the joys of tech

4:39 PM

i hate that crap, have like 6 sets of "

"""""" %path% """"""

@KySoto yea. so I'll try with double quotes, just to see if it sticks

that would be slick :)

i have a tiny bit of powershell experience

agh

its basically .net though

ive seen some crazy stuff where people go and use forms and crap and do full on apps

welp. I can't get it to cooperate.

4:41 PM

yeah without actually looking at it, i couldnt begin to understand whats wrong

For now I'm off. I might get to dealing with it somewhen tomorrow, but I don't think so

good night?

the problem is, without this working, I can't work on the mess I created

I'm on next and it just refuses to build

~grrr

@KySoto in a few hours, yes.

@this Is that on account of all the wasted space?

This is the commands, basically:

Post: %SystemRoot%\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\powershell.exe -ExecutionPolicy Bypass -command "& '$(ProjectDir)BuildRegistryScript.ps1' -config '$(ConfigurationName)' -builderAssemblyPath '$(TargetPath)' -netToolsDir '$(FrameworkSDKDir)bin\NETFX 4.6.1 Tools\' -wixToolsDir '$(ProjectDir)WixToolset\' -sourceDir '$(TargetDir)' -targetDir '$(TargetDir)' -projectDir '$(ProjectDir)' -includeDir '$(ProjectDir)InnoSetup\Includes\' -filesToExtract 'Rubberduck.dll|Rubberduck.API.dll'"

Pre: %SystemRoot%\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\powershell.exe -ExecutionPolicy Bypass -command "& '$(Project…

4:44 PM

I'm just starting to grok the lower level concepts.

so, double quoting to escape the command, which the contents are then quoted as per powershell's rules

@IvenBach I suppose. When you think about it, there are considerable variations in the names so even if you used small width like.... FirstName char(20), LastName char(30), that is going to eat into bytes as you increase the # of records.

whereas you could have FirstName varchar(255), LastName varchar(255) and realize better usage of the storage with only a small penalty to the lookup performance.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 created pull request #4372: Clean up the whoopsies that snuck into prerelease 3782 (WIP) to merge Vogel612/Rubberduck/whoopsies-cleanup into rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/next

they do this by splitting the database's file into "pages".

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 added label PR-Status: WIP to pull request #4372: Clean up the whoopsies that snuck into prerelease 3782 (WIP)

So that's part of the reason why varchar is preferred?

Kinda hand-wavey "It's better" type of answer?

4:48 PM

Sure.

Mind you, you should always use data types that are appropriate. If you have alphanumeric code, then char most likely makes sense since it'll be fixed in length typically.

the last thing I want to see in a database is a table with 2 columns, one being the key and other being a varchar(MAX) containing a XML document of all the attributes of an entity. That's just....soul-wreaking.

Mathieu Guindon

excel-exercice.com/analyseur-de-code-vba

4

@IvenBach Really useful stuff and these links have sort of turned by vba world a little upside down whilst I get a handle on it.

@MathieuGuindon Frédéric did a nice job!

@MathieuGuindon Congrats

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 51fd03f2 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build succeeded

5:06 PM

@QHarr Keep at it. I was where you were at ~1yr ago. I'm still working on feeling comfortable with the idea of low level byte arrays and whatnot.

Good things there's a translate option for that article. Does a good job at it too.

Mathieu Guindon

he's going to make an English version too

Re: Article. Would it be better to display dropdowns for the inspections? That way users know that they can be changed.

Mathieu Guindon

meh

it's what our UI looks like :)

Having non-contributors write about RD will be helpful since they come to it with a fresh set of ideas and expectations.

5:26 PM

@IvenBach Thanks. Appreciate the support.

5:36 PM

@MathieuGuindon I can fake enough French to understand the "C'est quoi Rubberduck?" section!

don't ask for a UN-quality translation, but I get the gist

Bing translate handled it remarkably well.

Head translate exercised brain cells. ;)

Mathieu Guindon

hm, I must have told Chrome to "never translate from French" once upon a time... can't seem to find an option to translate it

Yeah, I put my French-speaking brain cells to sleep years ago.

Synapses are occupied learning MVP and other tasks. French may come one day.

6:07 PM

@MathieuGuindon so... you're not a true French-Canadian? :o

Mathieu Guindon

"never translate from French" -> because I can read it without needing translation :p

Fred just "boosted" his article on Facebook

@this it looks like you are not expanding hte variables

the macros? That's how it's supposed to be.

is it possible to have the outer single quote be a double quote?

it is? huh

it gets expanded at build time

6:17 PM

i guess maybe it expands the variables differently

remember, the build events runs in a CMD context, so I have to use CMD syntax

i guess if it works then i am thinking about it backwards

which is why the powershell.exe -command

yeah, i guess if the variables get expanded BEFORE powershell gets it...

which IIRC was the only way to pass in the macros as a parameter to the script.

it does. But with the new format... apparently they changed the rules. Joy!

6:19 PM

hm. you know, you could create a script file and pass the macro values as parameters...

well as a though

i dunno how feasible that would be in production

@Comintern ~~Could I get a breadcrumb? I'm working through AddressOf operater in the VBA nutshell book, but can't figure out an example on pg 122 lstWindowTitles.Clear. Deducing the type eludes me.~~ Think I Rubberducked it out just by asking.

4

actually wait a sec...this is building it, which means you could create the script as part of the project

pass the script to the powershell exe and then pass the parameters to the script

yeah that could work.

that's what it does.

then you could have proper powershell formatting

well i meant a powershell script file rather than a command block

github.com/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/blob/next/…

look at the line 19-29

Mathieu Guindon

6:22 PM

@this you should put that script up on CR :)

the key is that we have to get the values from VS' macros which get expanded.

Mathieu Guindon

powershell rubberduck

that would be rubberduck post #80

@MathieuGuindon ~coughs~

do you HAVE to use command line stuff?

tis how VS is

6:23 PM

effing microsoft...

why cant they use powershell on their programming stuff when they shove it down our throats

Mathieu Guindon

@this bounty up!

That said, the CR is a bit out of date, since Mansellan tweaked it for .... drive something

Mathieu Guindon

ninja-edit the latest code in :)

That said - maybe one day after I'm done with my current PR and the EM feature, I may revise the whole deployment project to build directly from the assembly.

one day

like... in 2025

yeah, that's right.

i'll update the code in the CR tonight; need to review in case there were other changes

@IvenBach - I'd read this:

Function pointer

A function pointer, also called a subroutine pointer or procedure pointer, is a pointer that points to a function. As opposed to referencing a data value, a function pointer points to executable code within memory. Dereferencing the function pointer yields the referenced function, which can be invoked and passed arguments just as in a normal function call. Such an invocation is also known as an "indirect" call, because the function is being invoked indirectly through a variable instead of directly through a fixed identifier or address. Function pointers can be used to simplify code by providing...

6:31 PM

I'm getting the code to run but nothings populated in the list...

#WorkingWithThingsIDon'tUnderstand

@IvenBach #UntilPoofYouUnderstand

@IvenBach How much do you think you've learned in the past year?

^

6:47 PM

@Hosch250 #NotEnough but then it #NeverWillBe. Notwithstanding, a lot.

Think it over piece by piece for a couple minutes :)

I'm much more prepared to figure stuff out now.

I remember when I did that about 3 months into programming.

I was like, well, I know statements and expressions and blocks. Conditionals and loops.

Functions.

I'm guessing the idea I get, but the terminology is leading me astray.

@Comintern I'm going over the example but my C knowledge is non-existent.

The VBA terminology is kind of messed up and dumbed down.

6:53 PM

double (*func1)(double) = cm_to_inches; is what I don't get.

How can a pointer be assigned to a double?

@IvenBach Oh, just skip the code samples.

The takeaway is that AddressOf gives you a function pointer. I was intended to be used for passing the address of callback functions to the Windows API.

Callback (computer programming)

In computer programming, a callback, also known as a "call-after" function, is any executable code that is passed as an argument to other code, which is expected to call back (execute) the argument at a given time. This execution may be immediate as in a synchronous callback, or it might happen at a later time as in an asynchronous callback. In all cases, the intention is to specify a function or subroutine as an entity that is, depending on the language, more or less similar to a variable (see first-class functions). Programming languages support callbacks in different ways, often implementing...

Layman’s usage is “computer. Start with these variables and do your work”?

Can a delegate be thought of as a subset of a callback?

@QHarr ^is where you get to see me still learning stuff. We’re all at various stages of learning.

A delegate is for all intents and purposes the .NET equivalent to a function pointer.

A function pointer is the lingua of C?

More or less - C-like languages.

AnArrayOfFunctions

7:02 PM

I know everything about C

Mathieu Guindon

hi @AnArrayOfFunctions! how timely!

^ indeed

And aptly named.

Mathieu Guindon

(are you @Comintern's sock puppet?)

@AnArrayOfFunctions Everything you say...

7:03 PM

@Comintern is barefoot.

AnArrayOfFunctions

Yeah indeed why would you assign a double to any sort of pointer

sock puppets go on your hand @Comintern

AnArrayOfFunctions

Unless the double is maybe x64 bit address

Since a double is 64bit right

@KySoto See, I'm not that good at socks then.

Mathieu Guindon

lol

7:04 PM

when at home im terrible at cloths

whats your point? :P

AnArrayOfFunctions

Who asked this question?

i believe @IvenBach

Me.

@KySoto I hope you're better at clothes when you're in public! Cloths aren't that necessry...

;)

I’m learning about VBAs AddressOf operator right now.

7:05 PM

@FreeMan I am only as good at cloths as legally required

AnArrayOfFunctions

OKay - so I doubt you are assigning a double to any sort of pointer

a subtle, but potentially very embarrassing, distinction

AnArrayOfFunctions

Where is the code

@AnArrayOfFunctions Shouldn't be a problem storing a pointer in a double - just don't try to do pointer arithmetic or you're hosed.

The pointer double question came about from the link Comintern posted for me.

7:07 PM

This? (*funcp)(double)?

Mathieu Guindon

14 mins ago, by IvenBach

double (*func1)(double) = cm_to_inches; is what I don't get.

AnArrayOfFunctions

Ok so every function is C is implicitly converted to a function pointer

So yeah the lvalue type of cm_to_inches is double (*)(double)

I think that's generally true though. It's actually a bit more explicit in C than in other languages.

AnArrayOfFunctions

So the function is a pointer in an lvalue context

You call the function by using a pointer

There is no way to call the function by its rvalue (i.e. call it directly)

> CLI languages such as C# and Visual Basic .NET implement type-safe function pointers with delegates.

AnArrayOfFunctions

7:12 PM

To demonstrate that you can make the call more beatufil like this (*****cm_to_inches)()

Since each and every function in the way get converted to function pointer

A pointer to a pointer to a pointer to a pointer to a pointer?

AnArrayOfFunctions

So you dereference a pointer to function and get another function which in turn gets converted to a pointer

And so on

It's the same function though

Just a way to drive your friends, teacher insane

I know pleanty

@AnArrayOfFunctions ARG! It's "plenty"! (And now you know another ;).)

:click:

> There are two types of callbacks, differing in how they control data flow at runtime: blocking callbacks (also known as synchronous callbacks or just callbacks) and deferred callbacks (also known as asynchronous callbacks). While blocking callbacks are invoked before a function returns (in the C example below, which illustrates a blocking callback, it is function main), deferred callbacks may be invoked after a function returns.

AnArrayOfFunctions

Sorry -I'm using Internet Explorer and typing on the web is a chore

I wanted to edit but there is no edit for me

7:17 PM

Up arrow works.

For 2 minutes.

Also, if you click the little dropdown arrow that show up to the left when you hover over the message, you can open that and there'll be an edit button.

@IvenBach Event handlers in VBA would be an example of how asynchronous callbacks are used.

The part "deferred callbacks may be invoked after a function returns." is what made the asynchronous part jump out.

@IvenBach There's an example in the chat history:

Aug 25 at 5:08, by Comintern

OK, that was fun.

AnArrayOfFunctions

My PC just entered Emergency mode so I'm kinda on the edge right now

Since any minute now I may need to reboot

I'm running without pagefile on a 4gb system

Any tab stack.exchange.com is a bullet to my RAM

7:33 PM

@Comintern I read that before but didn't understand. Given another year I probably will though.

@IvenBach I remembered it mainly because of @AnArrayOfFunctions handle - that example is a collection of function pointers. You register a callback function with the class, then when you call InvokeCallBacks it loops through all of them and invokes each one.

7:58 PM

@AnArrayOfFunctions I am so so sorry.

ahh jeez, i couldnt run 4 gigs of ram no pagefile

how'd your computer break? @AnArrayOfFunctions

@KySoto Not on Windows XP?

@Comintern the last time i ran xp was... mid 2006

went to vista because 64 bit

and since i had a beefy machine, vista ran just fine

actually funny thing about vista, the whole reason it got such a bad name was because they "qualified" sub par computers to run it, when it was barely the minimum possible to boot with

so it ran like crap

Joke.

actually funny thing about vista, the whole reason it got such a bad name was because they "qualified" sub par computers to run it, when it was barely the minimum possible to boot with

Last time I wasn't paging with 4GB was on XP.

8:01 PM

ugh hate it when it says that i sent it and it failed, then i hit retry, and now i have 2

paging?

No, paging would be "@IvenBach".

LOL.

But seriously...

whatis.techtarget.com/definition/pagefile

In computer operating systems, paging is a memory management scheme by which a computer stores and retrieves data from secondary storage for use in main memory. In this scheme, the operating system retrieves data from secondary storage in same-size blocks called pages. Paging is an important part of virtual memory implementations in modern operating systems, using secondary storage to let programs exceed the size of available physical memory. For simplicity, main memory is called "RAM" (an acronym of "random-access memory") and secondary storage is called "disk" (a shorthand for "hard disk drive...

8:04 PM

you know... i dont rmemeber the last time my i hit the page file

@Comintern I think they usually go "Paging @IvenBach, Paging @IvenBach, Please pick up the white courtesy phone".

well because i ran out of ram

EVEN WITH CHROME

@KySoto Is that a joke?

:D

user image

8:04 PM

having 32 gigs of ram has its perks

@Hosch250 lol

@Comintern Is this the same as Virtual memory?

@IvenBach I'd say it's more like one type of virtual memory.

In computing, virtual memory (also virtual storage) is a memory management technique that provides an "idealized abstraction of the storage resources that are actually available on a given machine" which "creates the illusion to users of a very large (main) memory."The computer's operating system, using a combination of hardware and software, maps memory addresses used by a program, called virtual addresses, into physical addresses in computer memory. Main storage, as seen by a process or task, appears as a contiguous address space or collection of contiguous segments. The operating system manages...

^ It's the "Disk" part in that diagram.

@this I thought the white zone was for immediate loading and unload of passengers.

@Comintern No, it's the zone where the diplomats meet. As opposed to the red zone, where the soldiers meet.

There's (usually) less bloodshed there.

not as much as the DMZ, though.

Of course the DMZ has more than the whitezone. It's the reddish-gray zone between the two.

8:19 PM

The white zone:

Airplane! (1/10) Movie CLIP - Red Zone vs. White Zone (1980) HD

@Hosch250 The red zone is < 20 yards from the goal line.

@FreeMan got the reference... I missed out on the Airplane! jam the other day.

@Comintern With some of these young kids hanging 'round here, my first instinct is "gotta explain everything!"

:)

@FreeMan I just had great parenting - that was one of my dad's favorite movies, so it was one of the first movies we bought when we got a VCR.

I followed that parenting example - my daughter could probably recite half of the movie.

8:42 PM

lol

similarly, my folks took me to see Blazing Saddles when it was released. I understood about... 3% of it then fell asleep in the back of the car. (One of the advantages of the drive-in theater.)

oh wow

that movie...

They were talking about it at work last week.

@FreeMan That was the second movie I saw in the theater as a kid (I think I was 6).

I was at most 8 when I saw it. About the only joke I probably would have gotten at that time was the beans around the campfire. I was probably asleep by then...

TTFN

9:28 PM

@MathieuGuindon If you ever look into F#, this looks good: manning.com/books/get-programming-with-f-sharp

That's one of the top F# guys.

It was recommended to me a couple years ago when I was learning F# and he was still writing it.

I don't remember if I've talked with him directly on F# slack, but I've seen him around.

I've worked with Dustin Campbell on my Roslyn stuff (he wrote a foreward).

Ohh: manning.com/books/c-sharp-in-depth-fourth-edition

AnArrayOfFunctions

@Co

@Comintern It didn't break - I just exited chat - handling it pretty well with VIsual Studio 2017, Batman AK OST playing in the background, few IDAs, and stack exchange

hmm, i guess maybe i should find out what F# actually is

AnArrayOfFunctions

I don't know much VBA that's why

@Hosch250 Didn't they just release 3rd edition?

user image

^ livebook.manning.com/#!/book/c-sharp-in-depth-fourth-edition/…

It seems there's a fan of Stinky Wizzleteats at Manning...

9:55 PM

uhh

@IvenBach why does the text look like gibberish

95% of it looks like face rolling on hte keyboard

You have to be part of the MEAP program, which I'm not.

That's how I found that oddly legible text.

10:22 PM

uh

what?

so there is a thing that obfuscates the text unless you are part of some program?

11:10 PM

Looks like.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] CHR-IS-B opened issue #4373: Crash when adding double quote after pipe

> I consistently get a crash when I type a double quote at the end of a line of code, immediately after a pipe symbol. It happens in both Excel and Outlook (haven't tried other apps).

I can trigger a crash by typing this into a new module:

`|"`

It also crashes when I type those two characters or if I add a double quote after a pipe character on an already existing line of code.

There is NO issue if:

- The double quote is not typed at the end of a line.
- The double quote is past

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Sep '1817

VBA Rubberducking

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