VBA Rubberducking

ThunderFrame

16:02

Just don't be that Redmond-based multi-national that continually takes a billion dollar valuation, and then seems to add, rather than subtract technical debt, and yet somehow end up paying a multiple of the original valuation.

mansellan

Ah, but there's no such thing as "technical debt", only "value add opportunities"

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] ThunderFrame created comment on issue #4213: Inspection for use of IsEmpty with non-Variant types.

> `IsMissing` is valid when used with the implicit return variable of a Variant returning Function or Property Get, although if you need to check whether you've assigned a return value, your procedure is probably doing too much, or your branching-logic needs tightening:

```vb
Function foo() As Variant
foo = IsEmpty(foo)
End Function

Public Property Get bar() As Variant
bar = IsEmpty(bar)
End Property
```

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder created comment on issue #4214: Copyright notice is not right

> @ThunderFrame I don't know the answer. I asked on OSS.SE: opensource.stackexchange.com/q/7124/575

this

@ThunderFrame it's as if they want to fail but fail at that.

ThunderFrame

@mansellan you're forgetting about "synergies and competitive incentives", which I think equates to redundancies and antitrust abuses.

2

Duga

16:42

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] bclothier created comment on issue #4214: Copyright notice is not right

> This seems relevant:

https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/6582/can-i-remove-some-copyright-holders-from-headers-and-replace-them-by-a-generic?rq=1

Hosch250

@this $5,123,417 if the devs are paid $75k/year.

Estimated time: 68 person-years

We've, what, put in maybe 10 altogether?

spinjector

Hi all. There's the @Folder tag at the tops of modules. What's the correct way to use it? Am I understanding correctly that the tags are what RD uses to create the folders in the tree? Is it meant for user-use, or should it only be changed by RD? I don't see anything in the RD Add-In menu tree that mentions folders.

Vogel612

it's intended for user-use

there is some RD tooling around it, but IIRC we're still a bit away from only having RD edit it

Mathieu Guindon

'@Folder("Parent.Child")

^ syntax

Hosch250

IIRC, we support single-quote or no-quote too.

spinjector

16:52

So it's ok to directly edit the tag in the module? It won't knock anything of sync with anything else?

Hosch250

No.

Mathieu Guindon

Nope, it's actually currently the only way to customize your folders

Vogel612

@spinjector well the CodeExplorer will only update when you reparse

spinjector

Ah ok cool. Thanks. I could benefit from grouping my modules.

Hosch250

There's talk about adding support for (re)naming folders, but not yet.

spinjector

16:53

Yes, I figured a reparse would be needed.

Oooooh. Yea, having an interface to rename folders would be cool.

Mathieu Guindon

@spinjector warning: it's very addictive ;-)

spinjector

Yes, much of RD is, lol.

this

Given that we are already listening to keystrokes for the AC, seems not too farfetched to write a service to trigger parse when editing annotations.

Vogel612

@this we wanted reparse on keystroke anyways, soo ...

this

yeah I remember seeing an issue / PR which was disabled because too slow

Vogel612

16:56

unsurprisingly...

this

but for annotations, it should be OKish, I think.

Mathieu Guindon

Inspections not cancelling would have been part of why

Vogel612

we need to figure out smaller-granularity parsing before we can parse on keystroke

this

Agreed

Mathieu Guindon

^

The CodeStringParser has to be part of the solution

this

16:57

hm, don't we have to resolve?

Mathieu Guindon

Yeah

this

it does none of that. (and isn't meant to do that anyway)

Mathieu Guindon

I've changed the interface a little

this

no worries. I am sure you found plenty to improve on my monkeypatch. :)

Mathieu Guindon

I mean given the line offset, the IParseTree and the ITokenStream, we should be able to plug them into the big-picture parser and get it to work.. I think.

Hosch250

17:00

I'm doing an exercise in reverse-engineering.

this

@MathieuGuindon I think to further optimize, you need to have more granular references than module to module references, too. Most of time our edits will be scoped to a single procedure, so we only need to rebuild the procedure's parse tree and not even touch others, except when we're changing the procedure's signature or module's declaration sections.

that would cut down a lot of work for the resolver, I'd hope.

Mathieu Guindon

@this but one single line change wrecks the positioning of every token that follows

we need some way to decouple token positions from codepane position

this

probably asked that before but why not just have a parse tree for each procedure then a mechanism to union them into one big stream?

Mathieu Guindon

@this would that not entail implementing ITokenStream ourselves?

Hmm

this

no, shouldn't because VBIDE API already can provide you the proc sections using ProcStartLine, ProcLines (or whatever they're called), which you provide as a single input. You then only need to keep them in the same order as they appear in the code pane. To get the L, it's a addition of all previous elements' line count. Rewrite would only affect that procedure's parse tree, then you update the line count for the RD's display.

the tricky part will be when they cut'n'paste a procedure from one spot on the module to the other spot in the same module. But that means a module-parse and rebuilding the procedures' collection/parse trees.

(a huge grain of salt needed)

Mathieu Guindon

17:14

@this this could help avoiding the nuking of member attributes on rewrite, if done carefully

this

does attributes' meaning change based on the position within the procedure?

Mathieu Guindon

huh?

this

e.g. does it matter if you put VB_MemberID = 0 on the start or at the end or in middle of the procedure?

I think not.

IvenBach

I have it kind-sorta-but-not-fully working.

I'm stumped on how to have the filter apply directly and not remove results.

FreeMan

17:29

@IvenBach Nice lookin' start you got there!

IvenBach

Ready to help me with the PR? :wink:

The refresh that's done by choosing one of the grouping options, I can't achieve with the filtering options. Wracking my peanut trying to figure it out.

Mathieu Guindon

the grouping is smokes & mirrors, there's 2 grids

(which is awful IMO)

gosh I hate that toolwindow

I think you'll need to separate the "all results" list from the grids' actual source

IvenBach

I see the layering but can't wrap my head around everything to understand how to properly write the code.

Mathieu Guindon

add a FilteredResults property similar to this:

    private ObservableCollection<IInspectionResult> _results = new ObservableCollection<IInspectionResult>();
    public ObservableCollection<IInspectionResult> Results
    {
        get => _results;
        private set
        {
            _results = value;
            OnPropertyChanged();
        }
    }

IvenBach

So replacing github.com/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/blob/next/Rubberduck.Core/… with an _allResults _groupedResults _filteredResults?

Mathieu Guindon

17:36

then make it your data source

IvenBach

I think I see the way out. Let my use these breadcrumbs...

FreeMan

@IvenBach After our vacation, I'm 3 weekends behind on F1 and 1 each on V8 Supercars & BTCC, plus need to watch the last 2 matches of the World Cup. When I learn to ignore the siren call of the wife wanting to watch the racing and the daughter wanting to watch the football, I'll be ready to dig into some home coding.

Sucker for my ladies...

IvenBach

ooh ooh ooh I think I see it! How to make it work.

FreeMan

Yes, I know the results of 2 of the F1 races and the WC, but we do want to see how they got there...

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] DevulskyA opened issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

> Public Sub VARTOFORM()
Dim i
' <====== Right place is here
For Each
### **Dim ctl As Variant** '<====== Inserted By Rubberduck
ctl In Automatiza.Controls
If TypeName(ctl) = "TextBox" Or TypeName(ctl) = "ComboBox" Then

Dim sName As Variant
sName = ctl.name ' Nome do controle no form
Next ctl
End Sub

_____________
Version 2.2.0.3505
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.17134.0, x64
Host Product: Microsoft Office 2016 x64
Host Version: 1

this

17:39

@MathieuGuindon does ObservableCollection have any indexes

Mathieu Guindon

TBH I think it might as well be a plain List<IInspectionResult>

this

That unsettles the SQL snob in me.

FreeMan

@Duga that won't generate errors...

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] DevulskyA edited issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

this

Without the engine to optimize, I think in general, filtering before grouping is preferable.

FreeMan

17:43

@Duga derp... sees the error now...

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder created comment on issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

> `Dim` statements aren't executable, they won't generate an error unless the declared variable is used before the logical line that declares them; being inside a loop body makes no difference, no scope is smaller than procedure scope in VBA.

Rubberduck means to insert a declaration immediately above the first use... but definitely not in the middle of a `For Each` statement. How did that happen....

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder added label feature-inspection-quickfixes to issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder added label bug to issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder created comment on issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

> Repro confirmed from "introduce local variable" quickfix for "undeclared variable" inspection.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder created comment on issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

> The culprit is [line 26 of IntroduceLocalVariableQuickFix.cs](https://github.com/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/blob/next/Rubberduck.CodeAnalysis/QuickFixes/IntroduceLocalVariableQuickFix.cs#L26):

```csharp
_state.GetRewriter(result.Target).InsertBefore(result.Target.Context.Start.TokenIndex, instruction);
```

`result.Target` is the undeclared identifier; inserting the declaration immediately before `Context.Start.TokenIndex` is assuming that the `result` is located at the beginning of an

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder added label up-for-grabs to issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder added label difficulty-02-ducky to issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

Mathieu Guindon

@Duga we need an extension method or something, that makes it easy to get the token position of the NEWLINE that immediately precedes a given token.

hmm, perhaps the rewriter could have an InsertOnPreviousLine(int tokenIndex, string content) method

Comintern

17:58

@MathieuGuindon That would be a huge step in addressing the COM errors in VBENativeServices too. I need to find a way to pass selection change notifications that don't rely on having an IWindow attached to the event args.

this

@Comintern why not just pass the pointer to the IWindow, and provide a method to convert the pointer into an IWindow? (that presumes the pointer to the IWindow is stable as long as the window is open)

Mathieu Guindon

wouldn't that just move the exception on the handler side of things?

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 edited issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

Vogel612

@MathieuGuindon that is not sufficient

this

@MathieuGuindon yes but the clean up is also simplified; you can dispose it within the handler without leaking the com object

(or just not use it at all if not applicable)

Vogel612

18:02

otherwise we'll get erroneous insertions when the usage in the loop is not the first logical line in the loop

Mathieu Guindon

line continuations, ya

this

The bad is that you're now hoping that the IWindow doesn't wander off between the firing of the event and the handling of the event.

Vogel612

we need to determine the largest block containing usages and insert before the first reference on the level of that block

FreeMan

I hate it when windows just wander off when you're trying to clean them...

2

this

@Vogel612 agreed. It feels weird to see variables dim'd inside a block, esp. when the block is in another block and the variable is still used further down.

Vogel612

18:04

welp... I got muscle memory for "Ctrl + Z, BG, Enter, CLEAR"

Mathieu Guindon

@this agreed

wouldn't that be kind of like treating blocks as "pseudo-scopes"?

thinking scope tree here

Vogel612

hang on. you want to tell me that I can do the following:

Mathieu Guindon

BlockScopeNode : ScopeNode

Vogel612

With New Something
    Dim result As ...
    Set result = .Property()
End With
Debug.Print result

Mathieu Guindon

yup, that's legal

Vogel612

18:07

~sigh

Mathieu Guindon

(assuming ... has a default property, otherwise Debug.Print result would throw)

Vogel612

right :)

Comintern

@this That was kind of my thought.

FreeMan

@Vogel612 When executing Move declaration closer to usage results in code like that, I tend to do a quick cut/pasta to:

Dim result As ...
With New Something

just because it looks too weird the other way.

It would be nice if one had the option.

Vogel612

@FreeMan honestly, move closer should get it right on the first run there...

Mathieu Guindon

18:12

now if we treat blocks as "scopes", and use a scope tree to determine where a declaration should be inserted, then we can just walk the .Parent until we find that the .Parent is a VbaScopingNode (or something that means "that's a scope as per language specs"), and then we know on top of which block we need to put the declaration

Comintern

Doesn't bother me in the slightest personally. I take it as a hint that I might need to extract a function.

Vogel612

9 mins ago, by Vogel612

we need to determine the largest block containing usages and insert before the first reference on the level of that block

Mathieu Guindon

@Vogel612 precisely! ..I'm trying to think of a viable implementation :)

(one that doesn't involve the parse tree directly)

FreeMan

@Comintern If only there was a tool that would... Wait! No, if only there was a tool...

^sigh...

puzzlepiece87

in This Is Fine, 1 hour ago, by Tim Stone

Uhhhhhh.... no. http://abc7chicago.com/politics/how-the-russians-penetrated-illinois-election-computers/3778816/

Tweeted by hodgesmr on July 19, 2018 at 4:53 PM

Comintern

18:15

@MathieuGuindon [backspace] [backspace] [backspace] [backspace]

Mathieu Guindon

LOL

Vogel612

var containingBlock = declaration.References.Select(ref => ref.Parent<VbaParserBlockContext>())
    .OrderBy(b => b.Length())
    .First()
var usageStatement = references.First();
while (usageStatement.Parent  != containingBlock) { usageStatement = usageStatement.Parent; }
InsertBefore(usageStatement, declaration);

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] DevulskyA edited issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

Vogel612

@MathieuGuindon but... why?

Mathieu Guindon

@puzzlepiece87 WTAF

Duga

18:16

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] DevulskyA edited issue #4215: The variable was set in the wrong place and will generate error

FreeMan

@puzzlepiece87 "SQL, an acronym for Structured Query Language, is a common piece of cyber-trickery used to illegally gain access to government, financial, business and private computers."

puzzlepiece87

@MathieuGuindon Just wanted to let you know that ABC Chicago is on to ~~you~~ pretty much everyone in this room xD

Vogel612

oh wow...

FreeMan

Who knew... for the last 20 years, I've been involved with illegal cyber-trickery!

Vogel612

that's some terrible journalism there

FreeMan

18:18

there are so many obvious blunders there it's hard to accept any of it is factual.

puzzlepiece87

@FreeMan I TA'd a class in illegal cyber-trickery, feds come at me

FreeMan

LOL

IvenBach

A prime example of why listening to the talking heads on TV makes you smrt.

Mathieu Guindon

*snort, yeah

this

bet you that the author of the article thinks Bobby Table is a real person

Comintern

18:20

I wonder if my boss knows that I'm a cyber-trickster. I need business cards with that on it.

2

puzzlepiece87

@IvenBach @MathieuGuindon @Vogel612 @FreeMan @Comintern To be fair, it's more like an editorial oversight due to missing word.

Comintern

@puzzlepiece87 "not"?

Mathieu Guindon

lol

puzzlepiece87

The rest of the article makes it clear that the author understands the difference between SQL and SQL injection, including the very next sentence in the same paragraph.

FreeMan

"editorial oversight" is something that is no longer known in any "news" organization in the US and possibly the world.

puzzlepiece87

18:21

> SQL, an acronym for Structured Query Language, is a common piece of cyber-trickery used to illegally gain access to government, financial, business and private computers. Experts estimate that 8 of every 10 data breaches occur as a result of SQL injection.

mansellan

welp!.... at work I hear talk of actual servers for this SQL stuff... WTH have I gotten involved with?

FreeMan

@puzzlepiece87 selective copy paste for the humor!

Mathieu Guindon

conflating SQL with SQL injection, no problem here

puzzlepiece87

@FreeMan Exactly, all about the lulz.

FreeMan

:D

this

18:22

@puzzlepiece87 and clickbait

Comintern

@puzzlepiece87 The other 2 are WordPress, but there's a bunch of overlap into the 8 SQL Injection ones.

puzzlepiece87

@this Hodgesmr is very unlikely to be affiliated or to profit from clicks to ABC Chicago.

this

it would be even funnier (sadder?) if it was the editor that removed the word from the draft before publishing.

mansellan

@this He is, just check the database.... oh, wait....

Comintern

"Experts estimate that 10 of every 10 database accesses occur as a result of SQL."

3

FreeMan

18:24

is there a way to directly assign the contents of an Access form combo box a list of values resulting from some cyber-trickery (myComboBox.something = GetTheValues), or can I only add items by myComboBox.Add item?

this

@FreeMan cringes

FreeMan

ducks ok, school me

Comintern

@FreeMan IIR there's a way to do that with a PostMessage.

user5954246

Hello, Is java(android to be specific) not allowed in this room?

Comintern

Probably more work that the .Add loop though.

this

18:26

just bind the comobobox by filling in the Rowsource, done.

FreeMan

@Comintern Yeah, since I'd have to figure out PostMessage first...

Mathieu Guindon

> Discussions about VBA, the VBE, C#, COM interop and Rubberduck. Also, where Stack Overflow questions become Rubberduck inspection ideas.

Vogel612

@puzzlepiece87 actually thed editor probably collapsed a whole explanation of SQL without noticing that SQL Injection is something different

FreeMan

@this failing to understand... I thought the goal was to decouple the form from anything/everything else.

Vogel612

@Comintern depends on how you define database

puzzlepiece87

18:27

@Vogel612 Yup that seems plausible also.

Mathieu Guindon

@user5954246 not forbidden per se, but in general we discuss things relating to Rubberduck (an OSS project written in C#)

this

@FreeMan if you want to do that, don't use Access.

FreeMan

Though I guess that hardcoding a simple SELECT DISTINCT Col FROM Table isn't too big an issue...

Vogel612

@user5954246 what's wrong with the android room on chat.stackoverflow?

this

Access' purpose is to be a RAD tool, enabling you to write less, not more code. If you want to go full MVP/MVVM, whatever, you'll have easier time using Visual Studio.

FreeMan

18:29

@Vogel612 rubberducks sound friendlier than androids...

Vogel612

also: java != android

this

Mind you, I do want to see MVVM used on Access bound form but that won't be easy. To achieve that, a mock data source is needed, I think.

user5954246

@Vogel612 I tried requesting access to that room once, but they rejected it

FreeMan

@this OK. Attempting to apply the things I'm (partially) learning here to what's relevant at the office. The only way to find the boundaries is to push up against them.

this

Mat and I had a discussion about that subject a while ago.

FreeMan

18:30

@user5954246 sheesh! see, duckies are more friendly ~~and~~ than androids!!

Mathieu Guindon

*than

Comintern

@Vogel612 Depends on how you define SQL too. I mean, have you ever tried to query QuickBooks using their provider?

:shudders:

this

and good for you! We shouldn't just do things "because that's how we've been doing it for last 20 years*. I want to improve the testability of Access forms/reports, for sure.

@Comintern :shudders: x2

FreeMan

@MathieuGuindon tyvm

Vogel612

@FreeMan it's just that android is swamped...

FreeMan

18:31

I wouldn't think swamps are good for androids, but what do I know...

Vogel612

@user5954246 their rules clearly outline that to be given talk privileges you must set a username

room-15.github.io

that being said, this is veering rather off-topicc

Hosch250

@Vogel612 Did this become the brewery chatroom? :P

Vogel612

hmm. craft beer

Mathieu Guindon

beering might just be my new favorite verb now :)

Hosch250

@MathieuGuindon It was before. You just didn't know it.

this

18:34

@MathieuGuindon I think The Office beat you to it by few years.

Mathieu Guindon

gah

user5954246

Thanks

FreeMan

@this is there any preference between setting the recordsource at design time vs run time when there is nothing dynamic in the query that would populate it?

I can see a vote for runtime because I spend far more time looking at code than I do wandering about my forms - they're kinda set it and forget it.

this

@FreeMan #ItDepends. If you need to change the SQL based on some condition, then I'd do it in code.

FreeMan

SELECT DISTINCT ReportID
  FROM ReportList RL INNER JOIN ClinicConfig CC ON RL.ClinicID = CC.ClinicID
 WHERE GenerateQuarterly = 1

this

18:38

@FreeMan Me, too. I don't like using Access queries. Many time I wished there was LINQ but alas.

Comintern

I'm with you on not hiding stuff in control properties, but on the other hand, I hardly ever data bind controls.

Too much of a control freak.

FreeMan

^that's... oxymoronic and funny! :)

puzzlepiece87

ABC Chicago editor to the rescue:

> SQL, an acronym for Structured Query Language, is a database programming language. An "SQL injection" is a common piece of cyber-trickery used to illegally gain access to government, financial, business and private computers.

Mathieu Guindon

bingo

I'd remove that "cyber-" buzzword though

puzzlepiece87

Buzzword is exactly right.

At least they didn't call it "the cyber" or reference a 300 pound man on a bed

FreeMan

18:47

I've noticed that news these days seems to be institutionalized "FIRST!!11!!!!!!one!!!!" posting more than anything about journalism.

Vogel612

sad but true

puzzlepiece87

@FreeMan Depends on where you get it from.

Getting it from a tv station is going to fit that mold, yes.

FreeMan

@puzzlepiece87 most any TV or newpaper's web site very much fits that mold. Even (especially?) the "credible" ones. :(

Where do I need to have the caret to activate Refactor|Introduce Parameter when trying to add a parameter to and existing method?

this

I particularly liked the PSA about North American Hippos. I think every kids should be exposed to it.

FreeMan

I've got a freshly parsed project.

this

18:50

Normally on the method name works for me.

Mathieu Guindon

@FreeMan try a local variable declaration. You're promoting a local, right?

puzzlepiece87

@FreeMan To be fair, when we're talking about primary determinants of a source's credibility, typos and occasional misunderstandings/mis-editings of topics don't really score high for me. I care much more about "did the event in question actually happen" and "is the analysis of the event a plausible analysis or was the author just using the event as an excuse to vent on a topic of their choice".

FreeMan

@MathieuGuindon ah, nope. trying to add a shiny, brand new, never before seen technology one

puzzlepiece87

The link for me was credible, decently-reported, and humorously mis-edited. I'm okay with that. Bigger fish to fry.

FreeMan

guess I could create a local and promote it, or just create it as a param in the first place...

this

18:54

TBH, Introduce Parameter implies to me that I could add one.

puzzlepiece87

I like busting people's chops for fun as much as the next person, but credibility of news sources/the weatherman isn't the lighthearted topic it once was :(

FreeMan

@this me too...

Promote to parameter would indicate to me that a local becomes a param.

FreeMan

19:08

sigh...

0

Q: Automatically insert/delete rows with corresponding values when a defined button is pressed

new guy here....so here's what i have in mind and i'd like your help for the vba codes.... I have 2 excel sheets. In the 1st sheet, i keep/enter various data/values (like a database), and in the 2nd sheet is a formatted table that corresponds to sheet 1 data, and ready for printing for record pu...

vba

Comintern

@FreeMan CreateObject(Access.Application)

Huh. It just occurred to me that of all of the MS software I've crashed, I've never managed to take down SSMS.

FreeMan

@Comintern lol

@Comintern and lol!

Mathieu Guindon

@FreeMan "the vba codes" -> tuned out

IvenBach

2 steps forward, 43 steps back...

Mathieu Guindon

@BartvanIngenSchenau I don't know that. Would "I created that organization, own it, have full administrative privileges, decide who's in, who's out, and who can do what [to the extent GitHub lets me configure access]" convince a judge? Or the "entity" must be some registered "company" or "non-profit organization" for that to happen? Why is everything in the world colluding to make OSS so freakin' hard to manage?! I just want to write free software with folks that want to write free software! — Mathieu Guindon 4 mins ago

FreeMan

19:17

"I just want to write free software with folks that want to write free software!" leads me to think that you're overthinking it. Leave the © as is and keep the credits up to date.

this

@FreeMan maybe I should write a letter to Satya to add a message to Excel, "Excel is not a database. Please stop using it like one. Use an actual database and an actual front-end program for data entry. Mkay?"

FreeMan

@this that's a plan!

this

@FreeMan Really? You think that the © violators are going to knock at Mat's door, "hi, I thought I'd like to let you know that I'm violating your ©, so... bye!" ;-)

IvenBach

It could happen...

FreeMan

Mathieu Guindon

19:20

@this I know a paper clip that would be perfect for this

FreeMan

@this can we also get a default off topic reason of "gimme teh codez!!"?

Vogel612

@FreeMan I think it's a good move, especially considering that Chris has rather little code in Rubberduck anymore

It also sidesteps issues with a rogue contributor asserting copyright and suing

this

@MathieuGuindon groans

Mathieu Guindon

> It looks like you're trying to make a database in Excel. Would you like me to launch Access for you?

6

this

TBH, I'm thinking that yes, the Rubberduck VBA has to be a registered entity. The armchair lawyer in me says that if it's not a person, it can't have rights.

Hosch250

19:22

@MathieuGuindon Even though Rubberduck VBA isn't trademarked, you have full copyright over it, and someone would have a heck of a hard time convincing a judge it wasn't so here.

Mathieu Guindon

@this dogs have rights

Hosch250

@this Wrong. That's for trademarking.

IvenBach

@this Companies aren't a person and they have legal rights.

Hosch250

To have copyright, you basically just need to write it down in a public place with proof that you wrote it there.

this

@IvenBach They are people. Legal person.

Mathieu Guindon

19:24

"legal entity"

Vogel612

@MathieuGuindon actually that's usually a wonky special case

this

Maybe that's what you canadians call it over there. Here, we like funky names like "legal personhood" to talk about corporates having standing before court.

Vogel612

of course US legislation is the odd one out, but AFAIK dogs are usually posessions and generally have no rights at all

this

Hmm. That's news to me. Never knew dogs anywhere had any rights.

Hosch250

GTG, meetings.

Vogel612

19:25

@MathieuGuindon juristische oder natürliche Personen

aka "legal or natural persons"

Hosch250

They have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, just like anyone else. Well, almost.

They also have the right to keep and bear teeth.

Mathieu Guindon

ish

Vogel612

@this wasn't there famously a case about someone setting their pet as the sole heir?

Hosch250

:P

@Vogel612 Yep.

Family pissed them off, so they left everything to their dog.

Vogel612

In Germany that'd make the will mostly useless

this

19:26

@Vogel612 you see, I have this funny habit of not reading news. I find that it makes my life immediately more enjoyable.

Vogel612

if not completely invalid...

Hosch250

Family sued, and dog won :)

Vogel612

@this random trivia fact from ... probably ages ago

Mathieu Guindon

US is F'd

Vogel612

^^ that

that said: I should go back to getting my paper hand-in ready ASAP... I'm a week behind schedule already :/

wtf LaTeX

IvenBach

19:29

@this :+1: I'm also much happier when I don't have to see the magnitude of durp out there in the world.

FreeMan

@Vogel612 IANAL, but I think the fact that Chris & Mat have already asserted © means that nobody else can. ~~You (we)~~ Mat would probably have to get Chris' permission in writing to remove his name from the list.

My point was simply that I, as a user (and eventual contributor) don't really care who owns the copyright.

Vogel612

@FreeMan nah, that's not quite correct

the short of it is that anybody can assert copyright and sue, but most lawsuits have rather little chance of succeeding

FreeMan

well... OK then.

envisions another GoFundMe campaign for Mat to defend his copyright...

Vogel612

asserting copyright doesn't make you copyright holder...

law is a bit weird like that

A good Rechtsschutzversicherung (lit. "law protection insurance") should cover that cost

FreeMan

@Vogel612 bless you! what?

2

IvenBach

19:32

Can I get a bit of assistance to grok github.com/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/blob/next/Rubberduck.Core/…?

this

@Vogel612 to me that argues the case for making the organization a legal person. Otherwise, the case can be kicked simply because it's found to have no standing before the court. OTOH, it's not like we have a large warchest of cash to pay some pinstriped lawyers to smack around violators....

Vogel612

basically you pay insurance policy (something around a buck a month, I think) to have the insurance cover your process cost.

if you win, they get to keep their money, if you lose, you pay part of the process cost

if you get fined, you of course pay the fine yourself

IvenBach

Am I correct in understanding that the CommandParameter="{Binding ElementName=GroupByLocation, Path=IsChecked}" specifically the ElementName=GroupByLocation is referring to the x:Name="GroupByLocation"` and Path=IsChecked refers to the MenuItem.IsChecked property?

Mathieu Guindon

@this I can arrange for the pinstripe suits..

(just the suits though)

this

@MathieuGuindon that might be enough. pack the court with 10 lawerly-looking guys in the suits then hope they don't call the bluff.

Mathieu Guindon

19:36

@Vogel612 so basically I can do it, assuming the risk of "Christopher McClellan vs Rubberduck VBA" over copyright ownerships?

Vogel612

@this though there's organizations that have warchests for that

@MathieuGuindon IANAL, but at least in Germany... yes

Mathieu Guindon

hm

Vogel612

though this stuff doesn't get easier considering that this is basically international law

Mathieu Guindon

in any case, I did ping him on the issue, so.. he'll probably chime in at one point

Vogel612

and usually people can sue in their local jurisdiction

and in Chris' case that's US and that might be a bit of a mess ...

Mathieu Guindon

19:38

well Chris is co-owner and admin of the org as well, so..

this

IINM, in that hypothetical case, Chris doesn't even have to answer the summon. Of course, that might preclude him from ever visiting Canada.

and IIRC, that's why multinational companies re-register themselves in different countries; so that they have more leverages when they make an assertions.

IvenBach

Laws sure do complicate simple stuff...

3

this

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Vogel612

@FreeMan Google translates it as: "Legal expenses insurance"

@IvenBach hmm ... I kinda liked the law lecture I had (and which I'm writing an exam about on Monday)

FreeMan

@Vogel612 I saw your edit (after my post), the length of so many German words just amuses me to no end :)

Vogel612

19:43

well... it's not really a single word

it's just that German allows glueing words together

Mathieu Guindon

making singlewords

Vogel612

Rechtsschutzversicherung -> Schutz des Rechts + Versicherung -> Protection of the law + insurance

IvenBach

SomethingAlongTheLinesOfNoSpaces?

Mathieu Guindon

English uses hyphens to achieve the same. e.g. He-who-must-not-be-named

Vogel612

Oh we can do that, too ... "Er-dessen-Name-nicht-genannt-werden-darf"

Mathieu Guindon

19:45

and other more-than-a-single-word words

this

are adjectives (adverbs?) normally concatenated in German, with each nouns/verbs requiring a space?

FreeMan

@Vogel612 and as a non-German speaker, who can't identify the individual parts, I find it amusing...

Vogel612

sometimes there's hyphenation, sometimes there's not

@this adjectives and adverbs are completely different things

FreeMan

a real question about German - are the nouns normally capitalized?

Mathieu Guindon

yes

Vogel612

19:45

@FreeMan all Nouns are captitalized

;)

FreeMan

my wife's so smart...

Vogel612

as are names, including company names, depending on the official usage policy of the company name and a handful of corner cases

FreeMan

we flew Lufthansa to London, so I saw a fair bit of German. Also that whole "4 days in Austria" thing...

Vogel612

it doesn't help that you can "nounify" basically any word

this

@Vogel612 Ok but I was wondering more whether it's normal to simply concatenate any number of adjectives or nouns-used-as-a-description to a noun, while requiring spaces for noun -> verb?

Vogel612

19:47

and I can't ever reliably keep track of what needs to be capitalized and what mustn't

@this that usually depends

this

heh. Should have knew better.

Vogel612

e.g. There's the "allgemeine Persönlichkeitsrecht"

but there's also things like "Das Recht am eigenen Bild"

the first being the blanket right for anything related to natural persons, and the second being the right to control over images of oneself

if the concepts are inextricably entangled, the words are

adjectives are separate though. it only works when chaining nouns

24 mins ago, by Vogel612

that said: I should go back to getting my paper hand-in ready ASAP... I'm a week behind schedule already :/

Hosch250

@MathieuGuindon Yeah, but Canada is F'd worse.

Vogel612

~grumpily waves a fist in the air

FreeMan

@Vogel612 Get back to work you slacker!!! have fun!

Vogel612

19:53

o7

Transcript for