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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

this
this
5:08 PM
@M.Doerner I do not know what a typical Excel codebase look like but in Access, we find ourselves reaching out to many external components since it acts as the glue to bring together disparate components. Which implies that if the external component is written in .NET, python wouldn't help us any.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Duck check: Is there a limit to property name length for UDP on worksheet object?
I have to deal with very specific names that become lengthy.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@this IronPython.
Also, IronRuby and IronPHP.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
@IvenBach same as any other member identifier I guess (IIRC somewhere around 30 or 40)
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
That's why they need to not limit this stuff to languages--they need to integrate Office with .NET.
 
this
this
@Hosch250 As long it doesnt meant we have to screw with GC as we are now, fine.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
5:15 PM
@MathieuGuindon :gasp: What has this red-shirted fiend done with the Mug?
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
GC should "automagically" work, just like in a normal C# program.
 
this
this
@Hosch250 So much this. This is the point Microsoft have the most trouble understanding.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@IvenBach Apparently scalped him.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
hehe
 
this
this
@MathieuGuindon I think that's a case to use the description instead of naming.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
5:18 PM
The only problem is that Office is written in COM and C++.
To integrate them with .NET, they literally need to build them from the ground up.
 
this
this
@Hosch250 I think that's what Max was getting w/ python -- it uses ref-counting, so GC is much simplified if using python than one of .NET language.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
And expose .NET interfaces for each application.
@this Oh, I see.
 
this
this
but C# (or any .NET language not using ref-count for GC) using COM... #WorldOfPain
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Yeah, that's a good stopgap.
And Python isn't a bad language.
Not my favorite, but certainly not bad.
 
this
this
i think it's better than JS
I'd rather have people use python than JS, TBH
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
5:21 PM
Hmmm, probably a little.
If it has decent number types, yes.
But it's A) still interpreted, and B) still not type-safe.
 
this
this
does it? #DoesntKnowPython
oooh
ew.
But then, nor is VBA. The whole premise is to let the noobs not worry about what's what.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
So I can still assign a date to a string variable or string to an int variable, and it'll run happily until something actually expect the value to be an int or a string instead of whatever it is.
More recent languages do support some type-checking, anyway.
@this That's the whole reason they don't work, TBH. The program just dies with a stack trace.
 
this
this
and you know noobs is going to be "I GAVE YOU A DATE, WHY YOU NO ADD 3 DAYS"
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
F# is probably the "safest" language I know. If it compiles, it's very likely to work.
If it compiles and doesn't work, you probably don't have the right specs (e.g. the data is different than you thought it was).
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
@IvenBach LOL!
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
5:25 PM
C# is pretty good, and it improves as you learn the language because you know of common issues to watch for.
But F# is still better, in my (somewhat limited) experience.
 
a3k4
a3k4
Hi everyone! Access VBA doesn't support multithreading, does it?
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
hi!
and nope :/
 
a3k4
a3k4
Darn. There's no way for me to process something without freezing up the UI?
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
there are hacks involving VBScript though
 
a3k4
a3k4
Yeah I want to try to avoid hacks with this project
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
5:31 PM
@this might know better than me
 
a3k4
a3k4
How do you handle tasks that can take a few seconds?
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
(I don't do much Access)
 
a3k4
a3k4
hah ok
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
in Excel I just pop a progress bar
 
a3k4
a3k4
Do you hack that together or is there a built in class I'm missing?
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
5:33 PM
more specifically, this one; should work in any VBA host if you remove the part that qualifies the "worker macro" with an Excel workbook
(there's a download link at the bottom of the article)
 
a3k4
a3k4
oh! Thanks!
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
@a3k4 gotta ask.. do you know about Rubberduck?
 
a3k4
a3k4
Haha yup @MathieuGuindon Missed that in the wiki
I would be hopeless without it
2
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
that's heart-warming feedback!
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
@a3k4 As would I, and many others.
 
a3k4
a3k4
5:37 PM
@IvenBach @MathieuGuindon my only direct contribution was to add the thanks.md haha
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
oh that was you!
 
a3k4
a3k4
Yup
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Give it time. RD will become your all-consuming passion.
And that's a good thing.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
I was going to say you can put up a testimonial in thanks.md on the repo lol
 
a3k4
a3k4
The trouble is, I really don't like MS Access... RD makes it livable but not a fan of the app
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
5:39 PM
@a3k4 Yeah, you need SQL Server and SSMS.
 
a3k4
a3k4
@Hosch250 unfortunately the reason I'm using Access is that it's free. Nonprofit after all.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@a3k4 Ahem. SQL Server Express.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
^
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Cheaper than Access, because you have to get Office Professional to get Access.
Another $100 or so just for Access and Publisher.
If you just need Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Outlook, you can get the business version of Office.
 
this
this
uh guys - SSEE isn't a front-end.
 
a3k4
a3k4
5:42 PM
Yeah but we've had access for the last 20+ years so people know it (that's the other reason).
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@this SSMS is.
 
this
this
what? No.
it's not.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
well SSMS is a client
 
this
this
you aren't going to send people to use SSEE with SSMS
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
Sure I am :)
I just did :P
 
this
this
5:43 PM
you need a application to interface. can be web, can be Access, can be.
Good for you. :P
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
lol.. you use SSMS to build the back-end, and use Excel or literally anything you want for the front end
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
No they don't. They just need a DA.
 
a3k4
a3k4
@this, didn't microsoft depreciate the online version of access?
 
this
this
but it annoys me when people conflates Access with database -- it's actually both a RAD tool and database rolled in one but you don't have to use database to use the RAD
yes
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@a3k4 Depreciate or deprecate?
Important difference here.
 
a3k4
a3k4
5:46 PM
@Hosch250 the former. Although maybe the latter at this point too
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@IvenBach Points out that it's always the red-shirts that die first...
 
this
this
no it's deprecated
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Hush! Our BDFL will never be taken from us.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@IvenBach Big bus: VVROOOOMMMM
 
this
this
@Hosch250 that's a semi, not a bus.
 
a3k4
a3k4
5:47 PM
@this how do you handle tasks that take a few seconds without freezing the access ui?
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
That's why mug has his blinders on when he's out in the real world.
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
@this That's an implementation detail.
5
 
this
this
@a3k4 need more information.
it depends on what you are trying to do.
 
a3k4
a3k4
I have a button that calls a function that then processes hundreds of records. I want it to happen but not keep the user from doing other stuff in the meantime.
 
this
this
backend is?
 
a3k4
a3k4
5:50 PM
Standard Access backend... which is JET, right?
 
this
this
process how?
e.g. are you writing to a text file or something
yeah, JET renamed to ACE. #MicrosoftLovesRenamingThings
 
Hosch250
Hosch250
He's probably ranking a TMobile leaderboard with 16k recipients.
 
a3k4
a3k4
@this It runs through each record in a table and runs 4 queries to determine what needs to change on that record, and then makes the changes.
Basically I'm caching data about each record so that when I need to load the record later it can get the info directly from the table instead of running the additional queries at that time.
I'm really not a fan of my implementation but it's my best idea yet.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@a3k4 Post it on Code Review, you should get some ideas.
@this don't think I've ever seen a red-shirt get decapitated. Oh, wait...
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
if it's any appeasement, know that because the hoodie says "CANADA" in big bold obnoxious white letters, I'm not allowed to wear it - only to pack it with me for next MVP Summit :)
2
 
a3k4
a3k4
6:03 PM
@FreeMan thanks!
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@MathieuGuindon No appeasing, we just don't want you getting slain by some oddball space alien that looks suspiciously like an earthling in tinfoil and bubble wrap with some green body paint.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
lol
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
btw (back on topic) Access has long been leaving a hung process when otherwise appearing to shutdown correctly. This time, I happened to notice that I keep getting an VBE window showing up with my phantom MSACCESS.EXE process.
I don't think I've ever noticed that before, though it's possible it's been there in the background and I've not seen it before it disappeared when killing the task
this is on Win7/Office2010, btw
 
this
this
@a3k4 I think @FreeMan's spot on, post on CR to give more meaningful feedback. Hard to give a good advice without the implementation. The only concern i have is that you are apparently looping a recordset then running 4 queries - I'm sure they can be done in a single query, dumped into a temporary table for caching, rather than looping. Looping mucho slowo
 
a3k4
a3k4
Well I didn't solve the problem but I realized that a query as a string in the vba is faster than an existing query with passing a parameter
 
this
this
6:12 PM
@FreeMan check if it's cos of RD
e.g. if you've parsed, and it ghosts, it's RD's fault.
@a3k4 unfortunately, yes.
cos its optimizier is nowhere as good as SS's.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
@FreeMan that may or may not have something to do with a particular VBE add-in not tearing down correctly...
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
"Looping mucho slowo" my wife teaches 8th grade Spanish. She's told me you've got about a 68% chance of this being right.
 
this
this
and it will re use execution plan that may not be appropriate for a different value.
@FreeMan es no español real.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@this @MathieuGuindon, I'm pretty sure I'd parsed in RD prior to shutting down. Anyway, just an observation, don't know if it's useful or not.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Hooray! The level of tediousness is dropping.
Slowly, but it's a consistent drop.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
6:16 PM
@this el closeo enougho
 
this
this
lol
 
a3k4
a3k4
6:41 PM
I just decided I'm just going to throw up a progress indicator
It's the quickest "solution" to the problem
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
7:12 PM
Is there a way, in Excel 2016, to get an MDI interface? I don't see the value (even in a mobile/tablet environment) of seeing the ribbon on the top of each workbook I've got open when I'm looking at two different ones arranged horizontally. I need to compare data in the two, not see the exact same ribbon for them both.
Seeing one ribbon in 2010 worked perfectly well and left more vertical room to look at the actual data in the workbook.
#MSChangesStuffJustToChangeIt
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
7:35 PM
@FreeMan MDI?
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
Multiple Document Interface- I think that's what it's called. In Excel 2010, you get one Excel application window and within that you can open multiple workbooks. You can tile or arrange horizontally/vertically or have each "full screen" within the application window.
Multiple document interface
A multiple document interface (MDI) is a graphical user interface in which multiple windows reside under a single parent window. Such systems often allow child windows to embed other windows inside them as well, creating complex nested hierarchies. This contrasts with single document interfaces (SDI) where all windows are independent of each other. == Comparison with single document interface == In the usability community, there has been much debate about whether the multiple document or single document interface is preferable. Software companies have used both interfaces with mixed responses....
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
7:53 PM
Also, a while back there was discussion about RD configuration settings and whether/how to show the user had set something different from the default RD ships with.
Firefox still does this:
and I don't think it looks all that horrible as I recall someone mentioned. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Is there any future scope for parameterized VBA unit tests? Pretty please?
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
look for an issue labelled with feature-unit-testing and mentioning "Data-Driven Testing"
i.e. yeah, parameterized tests are still in scope
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
:+1: That'd make what I'm doing much less tedious.
How to attract more ducks to this pond so backlog stuff like that gets implemented? Hrm...
 
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
@FreeMan Excel did a switch from MDI to SDI in Excel 2013 and there is no way back.
Note however, that all Excel windows you open in 2013 or later open in the same Excel instance.
Up to 2010, they have been running in different processes.
There is one advantage with the new window management: you can now maximize two workbooks from the same Excel instance on two different monitors.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
8:11 PM
@M.Doerner - thanks. :( haz a sad. Of course, Uncle Bill (and his minions now that he's no longer in the day-to-day) know best. There's no possible way that having all the extra screen real estate taken up by a second copy of the ribbon (even when it's minimized to just a menu bar) would bother anyone.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
There are various cells that, if populated, they cause a non-default value to be used. Is there any issue with meta-programming to check for any namedranges with override in them to be cleared for a ClearOverrides button?
I'm not sure MetaProgramming is the correct term
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
meta-programming is when you write code whose data is code
kind of like when you implement an inspection
or write C# reflection code
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Is there a term for what I'm thinking of doing?
I can already forsee forgetting to update a ClearOverrides option if I have to call out each name explicitly.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
you want to loop through all your Named Ranges, check the .Value2 of each, and do something if .Value2 = 'Override'? Don't see a problem with that, but you'll want to be sure to handle Named Ranges that are larger than one cell.
@M.Doerner oh, and I could do that before by starting a second instance of Excel and opening a 2nd file in it. Do it somewhat regularly here at the office.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
I have the cells as NamedRanges. I'm rubberducking about any possible issues of doing 
Sub ClearOverrideCells()
    Dim clearName As Name
    For Each clearName In Me.Names
        If UCase$(clearName.Name) Like "*OVERRIDE*" Then
            clearName.RefersToRange.ClearContents
        End If
    Next
End Sub
@FreeMan ^
 
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
8:24 PM
Oh, I know that you can do that with two instances.
The thing is that you cannot directly reference cells in the onther instance.
At work, I am usually working with sets of three interlinked workbooks.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
You also can't paste special, but I'd rather deal with that than all the stolen screen real estate.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
@FreeMan The only time I'd do a clear like this should be on a singular cell. Thanks for the reminder on multi-cell ranges.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@IvenBach Me is a form, right? Are you in Excel or Access?
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
Excel. Me is a worksheet.
I'd apply the same logic to WB and Each WS in ThisWB.WS.
 
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
I usually end up manually pulling the instance over multiple screens and arranging multiple windows in the same instance.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
8:27 PM
ah. Yeah, I'd think that should work for you. So the Named Range is actually *OVERRIDE*?
not the contents of the range?
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
ColumnMWFLateralDriftLimitOverride or FooBarOverride
That's the Name property of the NamedRange.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
if you don't want to pick up FooOverrideBar, then you don't need the trailing star
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
oh, I get it. user plugs in override values. Later wants to clear them all by hitting your nifty button.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
^ Because "carryover" overrides were left in there...
 
M.Doerner
M.Doerner
Btw, it is really annoying that the WinAPI always thinks that you want to maximize on the monitor on which the largest portion of a window is painted instead of just using the one where I double clicked the caption.
2
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
8:29 PM
A design was done for something with say 500 psf (pounds per ft^2) instead of 300.
The thing is over-designed. Thicker walls for the steel member, more material, weight, cost...
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
Your code seems reasonable so long as you account for multi-cell ranges. Remembering that just because there aren't any now doesn't mean some nimnod user won't add one in the future.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
That's on the todo-list, right after appending with 'Override'.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
this is fun... Open project in Access. Hit F11. Parse. Expand folders to show procedures. Double-click procedure name. Access Crashes.
Very repeatable.
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
#TIL why Range.Parent is an object. Named ranges scoped to workbook.
@FreeMan :-1: Sorry to hear.
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
Win10/Office16/RD .2947. Decompiled the project. Rebooted the box
very consistent
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
8:37 PM
lost track, is .2947 the latest?
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
@MathieuGuindon yup.
carp. no logging turned on. Lemme do that.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
nope, it's not. see .2957
> Emergency fix for Code Explorer commands.
 
this
this
hm. that should ahve been fixed
yeah, what @MathieuGuindon sez
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
on the bright side, there's no hung msaccess.exe! :)
 
this
this
You can thank @bclothier for reporting it!
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
8:38 PM
hrm. lemme see what's actually installed - that was from remembery
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
nukes the process - see, all clean!
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
yup, 2947 is running.
scurries off to download the latest & greatest
 
this
this
hm. why 2957, not 2948? It was like right after....
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
"Vogel612/whoopsie-cleanup" -- possibly the best PR name of all time
 
IvenBach
IvenBach
OSS is great when you report something or actually fix it and you see that your contribution gets incorporated.
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
8:44 PM
OSS is great
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
Yay! all better now
 
Mathieu Guindon
Mathieu Guindon
there, fixed it
@FreeMan woot!
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
I'm going home.
 
this
this
Moral: Always keep your ducky up to date.
3
 
FreeMan
FreeMan
Sorry, y'all, I've been (more than) a bit of a grump trying to come to grips with office 2016.
@this I try, I try... You miss a day, you might just miss a LOT
TTFN
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
9:43 PM
@this hey that one was pretty good from what I can tell
 
Quack Exchange
Quack Exchange
-1
Q: Outlook 2016 Macro Mark Read and Update Search folder

GabrielI store everything in my inbox in Outlook and separate my mail with Search Folders. My main folder I work out of is a search folder called "Follow-up" which only shows me unread mail. I would like to create a simple Macro that runs in the background so when a massage gets marked as read it ref...

vba search email macros outlook
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
we should really get that version check to also check for prereleases in a separate "channel"
 
this
this
10:00 PM
hmm. I like that idea but with a caveat -- if we do have it, it should not prompt when it's a dev build
else it'd be constantly riffing on the contributors to update their WIPs
 
Vogel612
Vogel612
FWIW contributors can tune to the stable channel and then it shuts up just as well ..
 
this
this
hmm yeah....
 
 
1 hour later…
IvenBach
IvenBach
11:14 PM
mmmm. Delicious tests are now telling me when things are changing.
Confidence-that-things-won't-be-moving-without-me-knowing-about-it++
99 tests now. So many more to still write.
 
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